dwai

There are several leaps of logic you made in your comments about Mahayana but I’ll leave it for atherous to respond to. From what I know of Mahayana (vajrachara), there is practically very little difference between it and Kashmir shaivism. Also theravadins (strict Pali canon adherents) are to Buddhism what wahabbis are to Islam. Actually you are employing what is called a false dilemma to dismiss what I wrote. In the context of the tradition of Confucian ethics that governed Chinese behavior for the most part of its ancient history, it might have been imprudent to emphasize “love” over Ren, Yi, Zhi, Xin and Li. you make “divine love” sound like a dirty or corny thing. It’s not. Again you used a fallacious argument here (slippery slope). Also you keep insisting on “divine love” while I’ve shown via quoted texts what love is in the context it was used. Of course you might disagree or even say they are incorrect and that’s your prerogative but you didn’t really disprove them, or show any evidence as to why they are incorrect.

Or that it is all just a big drama being played out in awareness

I usually don't like to give quotes, but I'll make an exception because you're so "special" This is just Nisargadatta Maharaj (quotes curated from here -- https://hridaya-yoga.com/nisargadatta-maharaj-about-love/) Neem Karoli Baba's message has always been about love. Read Ram Das's books about him to find out. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa espoused Divine Love above all, even though he was a jivanamukta (liberated while alive). Ramana Maharshi -- http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6206.0 I can share more if you like or you could google each of those names and see what they had to say on the topic - i'm sure there's a slew of such material available online. Not human consciousness. Pure awareness is unconditional/unconditioned love. Read Nisargadatta's statement in the quote above. Maybe they meant "love" in the human sense or it could be what you needed to hear at that stage of your practice. That's great. By all means, share. That's what a lot of people on this forum do anyway. Daoist scriptures actually explicitly say that "love" is to be discarded? I've studied the Daodejing quite a bit and no where have i found such references. Daodejing of course is the highest book of Daoism imho. It is of the same grade as many Advaita Vedanta or Kashmir Shaivism books (pure non duality). You have no idea how much like me (from a few years back) you sound with that statement. It's okay, i'm not asking you to believe me. And I'm not making statements based on faith. This is my everyday lived experience (and of many others I know).

What does "normal life" mean? Didn't these other individuals not live in society, interact with people, lovingly share their knowledge and presence? I'll give you some more -- Lahiri Mahasaya and other individuals of the kriya yoga lineage. Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi) There are others who I know and interact with, who are householders and are fully awakened (but you won't know about them necessarily). There are a few right here on TDB...

Ramana Maharshi, Neem Karoli Baba, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda, Nisargadatta Maharaj, the list can go on and on You can read up on their lives.

The Buddhist lineages come from Indian systems Sometimes we mistake pedagogy for the end. It also has to do with the cultural mindset in which Daoism evolved. So the language etc are colored by that.

In my experience once cannot have Big Love and Bliss without Yuan Shen (Which is none other than one's True Self). In the Indian systems, only intermediate practitioners stay in the "void" stage. All jivanamuktas re-integrate into the world with full vim, vigor, bliss and LOVE.

As the process of abiding as awareness unfolds, one encounters following one of three conditions - actively abiding as awareness with no or negligible other contents of the mind. A apparent departure from condition 1, with a lot of contents of the mind. There seems to be an obfuscation of the “true nature” as one is caught up in the drama of samsara. Abiding as awareness but many thoughts and emotions flow naturally , with no attachment to them. Condition 2 is remedied as soon as one recollects the fact that one is awareness in which dramas of samsara rise and fade away. Even the thought “I am no longer abiding as awareness” is a recognition of the Self as awareness, and realizing this gives one the freedom to be, without suffering from guilt or fears of “losing” condition 1. This realization and associated relaxation results in condition 3 naturally arising. It is that simple. Feel free to discuss

They’re not layers. They are the nature of the Self Trying to shed them will be like the sun trying to shed light and heat. Not possible.

When we eliminate all the layers of identification that obscure our true nature, what remains is samadhi. And that is pure, free and blissful. Being blissful it is the love supreme, the primary force of creation. What you need is knowledge to inform your practice.

the difference is in the identification. As beginners we haven’t lost identification with the mind and it’s objects. Now there is no identification.

The past several months it has been condition 3

I spent several years in the "Dark night of the soul" state. Primarily it was a result of direct experience without proper knowledge supporting it. How it happened was a gradual process of meditation and taijiquan/neigong practice (in my lineage they go hand in hand after the initial few years). I entered Nirvikalpa samadhi several times, but the hard part was being in witness mode for several years in a row. When I first entered the witnessing mode and saw the contents of my mind, I fell into a spiral of depression, self-judgement and loathing (the contents of my mind didn't often fit into the box of the saintly person I aspired to be). With time it became better. When I met my Master, literally with a touch of his index finger to my forehead, he pulled me out of a rut, and slingshotted me into progressively unfolding awakening.

Thanks for sharing! Isnt it bewildering how simple it all is?

Yes indeed. The second is a progression from the first (as I've seen in my case and with some of my friends). If you look at the OP, that is the 3rd point I made.

Welcome to the discussion Of course many practices can lead to this. But practice unfortunately is not enough. In my experience, people can have direct experience of the "truth" in a flash, but without proper knowledge, they can keep falling in and out of the abidance, like a pendulum swinging back and forth. In the indic traditions, there are terms for this (direct knowing vs intellectual knowledge) -- paurusha jnana and bauddha jnana. Paurusha jnana is the practical direct experiential knowing and Bauddha jnana is the "knowledge" part of knowing. In order to complete the liberation from the individual personality and mind, both are required. Only the direct experiential knowing cannot fully liberate while alive because the knowledge part of it is needed to have the intellect cooperate. There are a lot of misconceptions vis-a-vis the ego. The ego is not a real entity, it is just a process and it never fully goes away. Only the identification with and as it ceases after awakening. The Bauddha jnana does the work of satisfying the intellect and ensuring complete subordination of the ego to the awareness. Only the bauddha jnana (or knowledge part) will not do the trick either. Without direct experiential knowing, it will only excite the intellect. That's why we find a lot of seekers who only read/study scripture constantly torn between acceptance and skepticism or remaining stuck in their addiction for scriptural knowledge (called shastra vāsanā). For that reason, Bauddha jnana needs a vehicle of delivery, which is a practice-based approach where the mind is stilled. In as much as understanding the "essence" of the knowledge part is concerned, without a still mind, it is very hard (I would venture to say, impossible) to grasp it.

that which knows the not-self is the Self

They all belong to you but are not you You are forever free and blissful...

Happy new year we are in agreement 🤗

Isn't pure awareness always there? Only thing that changes is whether there are thoughts or no thoughts in it.

You can go from closed eyes to open eyes and continue to “see” these visuals. I found that if you remain observant without any intention of “creating” anything, a series of imagery arises in your consciousness. When you allow one image to rise to the forefront, you can then use that as a thread that might unfold in meaningful and transformative ways.

Why only limit your feeling of "love" to beautiful women? You can apply the feeling you have when you think of the person in your life you love the most. It could be your mother, father, sibling, child, grandparent or best friend. Evoke that feeling in the center of your chest and let it spread all over your body. This is a very powerful meditation. Slowly and steadily let that feeling spread all over your body. It will feel like a wave of bliss spreading slowly. Don't force it. Naturally, evoke it in your heart center (not physical heart, as @Fa Xin rightly pointed out). After you do let the love spread all over, move naturally, however your body feels like moving. Let it spread and sink into the depth of your body.

https://www.divye.in/2012/07/madari-jamoora-english-meaning-and.html?fbclid=IwAR2yZ9xMQF9jNSf2GJOzVqb75DcV156Uktd7HoU0DLE7JexfX4yU7425AYE I hope you enjoy it as much as I did The translation is in the link above. But sharing here to give context --

In Vedantic study, there is a concept called "jahad ajaha lakshana", which means the proposition of abandoning the literal and grasping that which is the essence behind the literal. The following example is given --

The original one is very simple. Some even call it fundamental. I am.