dwai

Share some experiences please

By knowing there is no separation between two apparent beings, one could share one's presence with another. In such a shared state, when one connects with a deity, the person who is being "taken along" will also experience the deity's energy and often can "see" what the deity is showing.

I'm being serious about it of course

I mean it is possible to literally taking someone along for the "ride"

It’s happened to me a few times now. And there is a way to share this too... BTW, I too have had several dreams like that (I call them teaching dreams). You’ve done quite well over the lifetimes it seems.

He loves to go visit Lord Vishnu too If you can connect with him and hold on, he will take you to Vaikuntha to be in the presence of Lord Vishnu...

Lord Hanuman does love to do these things

Thanks Speaking about deities though...how many of us have actually encountered any deity at all in a realistic manner? Are deities mainly relegated to intellectual/emotional analysis and connection or are they actually divine beings with whom one can connect? I think that would be a far more interesting topic to discuss. Can we connect to these deities? If so, what are some of the ways in which one can connect to a deity? share some experiences Once we get that, we can probably compare/contrast deities across traditions. @Moderator team can we spin this thread off into a new thread titled "Deities - share ways to connect, and experiences with them"?

I'm not offended. I find that when we start on this type of discourse, we are effectively on a slippery slope to chaos.

Again guys...please maintain decorum on this thread. We should not be devolving to this type of discourse. Specifically referring to someone's deity as a prostitute or a porn star. Nothing productive comes out of this. This sub-forum is to discuss Hindu traditions. Hindu traditions do not resort to name calling and maligning deities of any other tradition.

This book has some interesting concepts in it about how Chakras and TCM Meridian system overlap -- https://books.google.com/books?id=O-MfmwbEf5cC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=chakras+and+eight+extra+ordinary+meridians&source=bl&ots=9AngPqJ7E6&sig=_a-f4TCf5RtTCA8jpq8xd87lH_I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYxab0vO7YAhUCct8KHaMkCl44ChDoAQgoMAA#v=onepage&q=chakras and eight extra ordinary meridians&f=false Imho, I find that the Dan tiens are essentially combination of chakras. LDT comprises of chakras 1,2 and 3. It is accessed at the location of 2. MDT is 4 and 5 and accessed at 4. UDT is 6 and 7 and accessed at 6. I suspect that the theory being subscribed (Daoist or Yogic/Tantric) to also controls how we perceive these centers to behave, and how they might impact our energetic and mental/emotional states. But the primary purpose of these systems is identical. It is about converting Ojas into Prana into Tejas. Of transmuting Tamas and Rajas into Sattva. After building up sufficient Sattva, to know one's True Self or Brahman. In Daoist terms, it is about transmuting Jing into Qi into Shen. After building up sufficient Shen, to know emptiness and Dao. Also all this is purely from the perspective of practical reality (dualistic).

Why not avoid holding positions? Then no threat can be perceived, no defense or offense are necessary?

Does defense always entail offense?

We should be careful to not hurt the feelings of any group of believers my friends. Hurting others' feelings is never a good thing.

It is confusing. One is the Vedic primary and sufficient principle of Existence, Consciousness, Bliss - Brahman. The other is the Puranic Deity who is the creator, Brahma, who rises from Lord Vishnu's navel and lives and dies but at a completely different time scale (than human beings).

What’s the harm in checking them out?

In context of self-inquiry and self-realization, when one starts down this path, one is ignorant of their self-nature (this ignorance is called avidya). The ignorance is because one identifies as their "Self", the body and mind, and the various things that the body-mind allegedly possesses and does (profession, possessions, passions, talents, skills, so on and so forth). So one might say, they are blissfully unaware of the "reality" and live mired in drama of samsara. As one starts the journey of self-inquiry, eventually they will encounter the fact that all that they had previously thought of as being their "self" is not actually that at all. Not everyone gets there quickly. Some suffer and struggle as a result of the inherent lack of knowledge of the fact that, IT, that which observes the body, mind and the countless objects of the universe ebb and flow, is the Self. But this Self has no properties that can be really observed, as it is the very subject that is the source of all experience, and all objects. In the period between embarking on this path and realizing what one truly is, is a painful period (at least was for me). It is rife with suffering of a special kind (some call it the "dark night of the soul"). It really is a "trial by fire", a "rite of passage" and paying debts with "blood"...but I wouldn't have it any other way, in retrospect. However, what drives me to write about this, is the news of that poor kid who committed suicide after going to a vipasana retreat for a week. That was really tragic. But we know that karma has a role to play here. As I reflect upon my "suffering" during the period when I was clearly in witness state and yet did not know my real identity (or a lack thereof, in the common sense), it was a struggle. I was unable to stand crowded places, unable to look people in the eye as the contents of my mind would rise forth as I was having a conversation with them and "negative" thoughts involving them would fleet through my brain. I truly thought I was a bad person, as a result of the contents of my mind (and habits that were driven by the stuff I was living on - social, nutritional, etc). As a result of this (for almost 6 years), I struggled every day. I would still stubbornly do my taiji forms, my standing meditations, my yoga asanas, pranayama, etc. As much as I knew that if I stopped these things, I would probably over time go back to being blissfully more ignorant, or oblivious; still, I could not stop. Eventually, I entered a phase, where I grew numb and oblivious to the world around me. It didn't matter whether I had a job or not. Whether I was with my family or not. Even whether I did my practice or not. During this period, I would intermittently stop practice and then start again, when I felt like it. Maybe, I was comfortably numb. In retrospect, becoming numb actually helped me handle the energies and process the goings on. But then my first teacher moved (it was his guidance and twice a week of contact (for several years) that kept me sane during this period and kept me going), and introduced me to Master Jose. Even before meeting Master, I had met him in dreams and he worked on me (for stuff I had asked him to help me with). When I finally met him in person, and he transferred his consciousness to me with a touch of his index finger to my 3rd eye, he literally kicked my butt across the line and I spent about 15 days subsequent to that in a state of ecstasy/bliss. After that, for almost another year and a half, I stayed in a split state of being completely Self-aware and in the local-mind/ego state (Master calls it the Spiritual Mind and the local mind). During this period, for the most part, the Ego was unable to flex its muscles - it stayed a humble servant to the spiritual mind. And around 6 months after meeting master, my friend who had seemed like a died-in-wool materialist started practicing self-inquiry too, in the classical advaita vedanta mode. As he and I started discussing this, I started to try and articulate what was happening to me, to explain in words my "experiences". This started a process of categorization and rationalization, which resulted in my "dropping out of the split-state" eventually. There was a decay going on, as the old habits and grooves started to re-appear. I was rather depressed as I realized that, thinking "huh! I knew that it was too good to be true...". So I asked Master, to which he said "two things are happening. Your body is getting used to the energy and emptiness and old habits are re-appearing. But this is the opportunity for you to work through them and get back to the blissful state". And true to his word, the return to bliss is working, steadily and surely. The old "cold and indifferent" state (Stone Buddha?) has been replaced by awareness of the awareness of being, which is so completely ordinary, that I would have never even imagined that it is that way. We read so many glorified and idealized descriptions of this becoming "Self-aware" that it is almost anti-climactic when the realization occurs. And along with that realization the other thing that happens is the realization that there is no moment that one is not that (Self). Old habits and samskaras that used to bother me quite intensely, have become amusing. The "blissful" state is really a non-state. It is always there. It is just that before the mind-body identification had so total a hold on me, that it was constantly masked (except for those fleeting moments when the mind would stop). I won't even say that the mind stops completely. Just that, by being aware of the etherealness of the mind and not identifying with the body, the background looms large and it's ever-present nature is apparent. This too is a stage, I know now. The dive is going to keep getting deeper...

Any KAP folks around here still? I was reading Dr. Morris' book "Path Notes of an American Ninja Master" and found many interesting topics that I'd like to understand better in context of KAP. Some of these are specifically around "Beings" and Dakini work. Would be much obliged if folks could share their thoughts and experiences around this topic. Best, Dwai

I'm not so interested in popping the snake..it's been popped for a long time I'm more interested in finding more material about his Dakini etc work.

Here's another story This story is often used as a tool to show how in course of meditation and self inquiry, we become the observer -- the witness and see phenomena arise and fall away in the mind, in the body and the effects in form of emotions and fears and feelings. However, many of us forget, we really are that one...who is witnessing everything and not the witnessed. We forget to "count our Self".

Very nicely put.

There is yoga even in viyoga

Well it’s not possible to show the way to someone who’s like a block of wood and has no desire to learn. There always has to be an active desire to learn and become free. Yes indeed. Sometimes we spend 10-20 years learning to meditate. Just doggedly keep at it until one day the mind is clear enough to get a glimpse. Then it’s easier ever since. But also maybe someone helps us clear the mind by sharing presence or a touch of a finger. I’m speaking about myself here...been through it all. How does one know that a “visitation” by someone who is not a “god or goddess or immortal” isn’t ordained as a result of fruit of their karma? Most people have no idea about karma. They know suffering. People usually begin seeking to end their suffering. I mean real seeking, not chasing siddhis and parlor tricks. Until one has been through the grinding mill a few times around, they wouldn’t know if grace came and but them in the butt. The most important to do is keeping an open mind and an empty cup. But usually that too is only learnt after a few rounds in the mill