dwai

I see. So sambhogakaya is like the annamaya Kosha + pranamaya kosha, nirmanakaya is like the manomaya + vijnanamaya + Anandamaya kosha and dharmakaya is the Brahman?

That which is truly immortal is the eternal awareness that is apart from being or non-being, existence or non-existence. The immortal spirits are very close to that awareness but still have name and form. If they have name and form, they (the being of name and form) are not nondual. I don't say they are unrealized at all. They are quite the opposite -- wise, powerful, compassionate. They show us the way, help us when we are ready to grow out of our limited nature. But that which is nondual is apart from either realization or non-realization as well. Immortality imho is to be outside space and time entirely, which ironically we all are, already

That's my understanding.

Pure awareness is the Dao

Matter is just energy vibrating at a lower frequency (within a specific range). Immortal spirit would be a slightly differentiated yet at higher frequency than "your or me".. What I've experienced is that it is all a continuum...we are just a continuum of a cloud of energy, where then bodies etc are just more dense clouds than that which exists in nature. EDIT: clarification -- by immortal spirit I mean the daoist spiritual embryo type concept, not Atman

Why does consciousness need a complement? If we consider the primary stuff of the universe to be pure objectless consciousness or awareness, does that help resolve? People seem to have a problem with this because they presuppose that matter exists, and consciousness happens to it. Yet matter wouldn't exist if there was no consciousness. You could argue, that might not be the case. Yet there is no way for us to know unless we were conscious...

Yes consciousness and energy are one and the same. In fact energy is just another projection of consciousness. Let's see if this way makes sense --- when consciousness arises from the primal awareness (Dao), a polarity (+ and -) is created. This is the basic vibration. As consciousness remains (Like a wave on the surface of the ocean), It appears to spread as a wave (a series of such vibrations). This is called energy. When this creation of polarity is slow, it is is jing. When it slows further, it becomes matter. When it speeds further it becomes qi, when it vibrates even faster, it becomes Shen. When it vibrates so fast, infinitely fast, it becomes emptiness, as there is no polarity notable anymore. The polarity becomes a quantum state (all the possibilities are enfolded in it. -- both poles simultaneously co-exist, and it appears as if neither exists, no apparent movement, hence empty).

It is the same thing vibrating in different frequencies

In course of meditation, often the mind-stuff (mind's contents - aka thoughts) rises up and we can end up getting attached to it. We are not always good at not judging ourselves as the contents of the mind reveals some not so pleasant aspect of us. So a very significant revelation in not such a wholesome way became apparent... Consider for a moment that we have a very wholesome, healthy, balanced diet. As a corollary thereof, our excretion will be smooth, uneventful and will keep us healthy, our digestive system functioning properly. If we have a day or two of binging on really unhealthy dietary choices, the results may be painful the next morning (or later in the day, as our schedule dictates ) No matter whether we had a good BM or a bad one, we don't hold on to the notion that the by-product of the process belongs to us. We let go of it...flushed down the toilet...gone... Same too with when we do cleanses...a lot of deep junk comes out...we let go...flush it down and are happy about it being gone. We feel cleansed after... The mind-stuff is no different. It is a by-product of what our consciousness consumes. If our consciousness consumes wholesome and healthy material, the thoughts that are generated will gradually become wholesome and tranquil. We watch and let go... Even if our mind has had a day or two of binging on unhealthy and toxic stuff...the thoughts that are generated will reflect that. We should still watch and let go. The by-product of what the consciousness consumes (mind-stuff) does not belong to us, any more that what the by-product of what our body consumes is. Similarly, when we do cleanses of the consciousness (mind-body practices, meditation, etc), a lot of deep junk comes out...as mind-stuff. Why then should we feel bad about it's contents? We should watch, let go and be glad that it's gone. We might have to cleanse over and over again...until the consciousness is clear of all the garbage. But that garbage should not define who we are and how we behave. We have to let go... Suffering happens when we hold on to the garbage, thinking that it defines who and what we are. The fact is that we are not. The garbage is just a reflection of what we are impinged with (stimuli - objects of our perception and conception).

Is the car aware of itself? You and I are

There are many forces that pose a challenge for a person's ability to even comprehend nondualism. We have to go through a metamorphosis, so to speak, before nondualism makes sense. I mean that, within the context of studying and practicing without a teacher who is able to literally capture the student's consciousness and "make them experience" the nondual. In my case it took many years before I could move beyond the intellectual understanding of nonduality. Only now am I entering the threshold of the front gate... Imho the old ways make sense when we fully accept them as bonafide ways. If we are constantly trying to mine these systems for what we consider useful, we end up deluding ourselves because we don't yet have the ability to understand what is truly useful or not. Your point about real cultivation beginning after awakening rings true. But I think our karma makes us run in circles and jump through hoops before we are ready for the shift in awareness. A skillful and/or powerful teacher does have the way to short circuit this lengthy process. In light of various discussions about effort vs non-effort etc, it seems to me that we are ready when we are meant to become ready and not a moment earlier. I mean we have to have a karmic precondition to even be able to find such a teacher, and many among the handful of humanity who even do venture down this road, are destined to wander the dusty trails for a long time, burning their karma (and certainly creating more), until they ripen enough to get these insights.

I recently watched a few physics documentaries produced by the BBC. For professional physicists, these would seem quite pedestrian I feel, but in general I found these very refreshing/interesting. The first one in the series is this -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_z... The second one is this -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioP... All the while, during the course of these two episodes, I started thinking of a vision I had a few months back (and the meta-physics that was made more apparent to the limited me), in which I was shown how this material universe really is. Just progressively subtler dimensions of thought-objects, starting with the most gross (physical matter). All of these are just appearances in Consciousness. As they increase in subtleness, there exist "beings" who are progressively holier and more powerful (as the rules that govern these dimensions are more fluid than in the material world). Ultimately there is just one consciousness in which all this happens. Nothing new about that (as it is the basis of Vedanta, etc)...but was still quite the experience when I saw it unfold. Along with this thought, I was given another answer to my question of "How does the material universe arise, out of the One Consciousness?" To which the answer was, through the rise of polarity. Opposites. Yin and Yang, Positive and Negative, Purusha and Prakriti. Polarity is the primary cause for movement, which is necessary for phenomena to exist. If there is no movement, there can be no phenomena. What is the necessary condition for all this? A witness...hence a subject predicate arises (I AM), which observes these various dimensions simultaneously rise and fall. Even time is itself a result of this polarity. The grosser the dimension is, the more solidified time becomes. Keep in mind the concept of polarity if you get a chance to watch those two documentaries. I think it will become self explanatory... The ancients had seen all this so very clearly...life is not getting better at evolving, it is actually doing exactly what it has been doing all through "time". We are going towards a progressively greater degree of disharmony, between the two poles, until all that remains is nothingness (chaos leads to annihilation). But this annihilation creates the ground for the cycle to resume again. Why does this happen? Because it is the nature of being. The void gives rise to form and form falls back into the void, over and over again... That is the cycle of thoughts rising and falling, in Consciousness...

Yuan Shen is Pure Awareness - Dao

The point I was trying to make is that "realization" requires as much effort as is needed to "listen" to these lectures (videos posted) -- but the duration of such effort is 24x7 (or at lest as much as possible)

Imho, a non-doer is a non-doer when he/she has let go of the doer-ship. That is, stopped identification with body-mind and its positions. Letting go is not doing. It doesn't take any effort to let go. It only seems like it does. All it takes is real self-honesty.

Har Har Mahadev! <3 ShivayaShiva I. “By whom commanded and directed does the mind go towards its objects? Commanded by whom does the life-force, the first (cause), move? At whose will do men utter speech? What power directs the eye and the ear?” Thus the disciple approached the Master and inquired concerning the cause of life and human activity. Having a sincere longing for Truth he desired to know who really sees and hears, who actuates the apparent physical man. He perceived all about him the phenomenal world, the existence of which he could prove by his senses; but he sought to know the invisible causal world, of which he was now only vaguely conscious. Is mind all-pervading and all-powerful, or is it impelled by some other force, he asked. Who sends forth the vital energy, without which nothing can exist? The teacher replies: II. “It is the ear of the ear, the mind of the mind, the speech of the speech, the life of the life, the eye of the eye. The wise, freed (from the senses and from mortal desires), after leaving this world, become immortal.” An ordinary man hears, sees, thinks, but he is satisfied to know only as much as can be known through the senses; he does not analyze and try to find that which stands behind the ear or eye or mind. He is completely identified with his external nature. His conception does not go beyond the little circle of his bodily life, which concerns the outer man only. He has no consciousness of that which enables his senses and organs to perform their tasks. There is a vast difference between the manifested form and That which is manifested through the form. When we know That, we shall not die with the body. One who clings to the senses and to things that are ephemeral, must die many deaths, but that man who knows the eye of the eye, the ear of the ear, having severed himself from his physical nature, becomes immortal. Immortality is attained when man transcends his apparent nature and finds that subtle, eternal and inexhaustible essence which is within him. ~ Kena Upanishad with commentary by Swami Paramananda

Yes it is a very good read. I own a copy as well..

Yes, beautifully explained. I too am cultivating this awareness, as well as the loving kindness that is so inherent in our true nature.

Hi Ilya, There are no clear explanations. I think that this is just the nature of existence. As the I AM subject predicate arises, it also gives rise to the polarity. Why the I AM predicate rises, I don't know, I only know that it does. One of the hymns of the oldest veda, the Rg Veda, is called the nAsadiya sukta -- it goes like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasadiya_Sukta) -- I'd also written about this a long time back -- http://www.medhajournal.com/index.php/en/articles/philosophy/345-nasadiya

In my understanding, He is referring to realization of the Immortal Brahman/Atman. The world is a result of Maya. AFAIK, Mara is a buddhist concept (of an entity that seeks to derail sadhana/practice of serious seekers by appearing or manifesting as various temptations). In Vedanta, we don't need such a temptress, as Maya herself is the greatest temptress

Dear Prasanna, You got your apology which was sincere. This is a public forum and anyone is free to post anything they like. Life is too short to waste on this squabbling. Please accept the apology and move on. While it is unclear to me what offended you, I still offered you the apology because it was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. But if you persist in this vein, you are merely proving 3Bob's views (who I've interacted with for many years and I do know to be a good person). I will delete the off topic posts from this thread if this issue persists. So please, cease and desist from anymore conflict. Hari Om Tat Sat.

I think they posit some sort of sub-space through which information travels instantaneously between any two points irrespective of distance between them. This is based on the subject of quantum entanglement.

That's how taiji masters do power transfer using gravity fields

Okay Prasanna. You have obviously been offended by something. If there was anything I said to inadvertently offend you, my sincere apologies. Same extends to Bob as well as other participants on this thread.