dwai

Wow! As usual, wonderfully expounded. What I meant by "holding on" is identification with the mind/body/thoughts, etc. What I meant by "letting go", is stop identification with these. Stopping the identification seems to stop the "from position". And thank you also for a timely reminder

Please don't misunderstand. You Have a lot to share with us and no one is trying to dissuade you from it. Let me remind you to Stay in sakshi bhava

Practical implementation very simple, yet very hard. How can we stay unaffected by the upheavals of samsara (dualistic world)? I find that by remaining Present, i.e., remaining a witness to all the happenings, I am free from attachments (to pain, pleasure, gain or loss). The moment I identify with any particular "thing" (say my job), the pain resumes immediately (pain as is worries, fears, etc etc). The masters say, that little by little, by staying ever vigilant and ever present, we will burn through all these "attachments", so much so, that we can be in the world but yet remain unaffected, just like a Lotus grows in the mud but is unaffected by the mud. There is nothing more practical than this path, but nothing seems more impractical to the ego-self.

Being Present?

You are right...the movement itself is apparent. Yet within the context of the dualistic world, it is real. That's why there is the 2-level model in Vedanta and Buddhism. There is the absolute (paramarthika) and the relative (vyavaharika). Absolutely, despite all the phenomena rising and dissipating, the non-dual remains unchanged. Yet, the appearances/phenomena that seem to rise and dissipate do change all the time.

3Bob, Let us not let this beautiful discussion degenerate into acrimony. Om Shanti

Prasanna, I was not arguing with 3Bob. I was telling him that Shiva + Shakti (Purusha + Prakriti) of Samkhya not different from Brahman of Advaita Vedanta. You are falling into the same trap that you are warning against. Please re-read the discussion and see if you find an element of anger, pointless argumentation here. Most of the people who post here are serious sadhakas and respectful of each other's view points. Those who are not are handled by the moderators. Best, Dwai

Old Indian story (from the Upanishads) Once 10 friends were crossing a river. After they crossed over, one of them started counting out the friends and pointing his finger at each of the other friends, he counted "1...2...3...4...and so on until 9". He then exclaimed, "one of our friends must have drowned!" Not believing friend 1, other friends all took turns and counted "1, 2, 3, and so on until 9" and broke down into lamentations. Sitting down on the banks of the river, they all wept profusely. A wise man who was walking past them asked them "Why are you guys crying?" To that, one of the grieving friends replied - "we were 10 when we were on the other side of the river, and now we are 9! One of our dear friend passed away..drowned in the river!" The wise man understood what was going on, and said, "Hold on guys! Let me show you that all 10 are very much alive...can you start counting?" So the first friend stood up and started counting off "1, 2, 3,...and so on until 9" and said "See! I told you one is missing!". To that, the wise man responded -- "now point towards yourself too!" and then suddenly a light bulb went off in all their heads...and they exclaimed, half joyously and half sheepishly..."We forgot to count our own selves!" This story is used in the Upanishads to show, how in our quest to find the Self, we often look for the Self as an object of inquiry. If we take such an approach, we will never find anything, because the subject cannot become the object of it's own inquiry.

Shiva and his shakti are none other than Brahman itself.

If you consider watching this video here effort, then that much effort is needed -- http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43583-the-secret-of-the-five-sheaths-by-swami-sarvapriyananda/#entry741022

You have not seen real internal martial artists then. Just because someone is moved physically doesn't mean external

I know where Prasanna is coming from. In India, there are no major issues wrt Saivism "vs" Vaishnavism "vs" Shaktism in the popular sense. We worship all deities, we celebrate all festivals. Depending on the part of India, one deity might be primary for the population than another. For instance, in Maharashtra (a Western state), Ganesh is the primary deity. In Karnataka (a southern state that I grew up in), there is a even distribution of Vaishnavites and Shaivites (Lingayats etc). In the Eastern state of Bengal where my roots are, Durga and Kali are the primary deities. Yet, the fabric of Hindu culture is such that these deities form an extended family. Shiva and Parvati (Durga/Kali) are husband and wife, whose kids are Ganesh, Karthik, Lakshmi and Saraswati. Saraswati's husband is Brahma (the creator), Lakshmi's husband is Vishnu (the preserver). There are many cultural nuances that non-Indian Hindus can't understand (because they have not lived Hinduism the way us Indian-Hindus have and do).

I could say that same about your interpretation It's okay for us to have different understandings...there are many factors involved in coloring them. That said, I humbly bow out of the discussion...it is now becoming repetitive

See, in the Upanishads there is no discussion of "destroying" ego. Yes statements like "go beyond the senses and ego" are made. Ultimately the ego and mind are non-existent as they too are modifications of the Self itself. Ego is just a delusional complete identification of the Self as body-mind. Once the identification is dropped, it does not matter as they will have been revealed to be really non-different from the Self itself.

Listen to this section of the satsang I'd posted earlier -- https://youtu.be/TfCPPzztKYM?t=3119 Here Papaji is speaking about him going to Kailash and beyond on foot when he was younger.

Yes, Brahman/Shiva-Shakti and I Am are inextricably inter-related. Form = Void, Void = Form. I AM is the portal between Brahman and Jagat.

The universe is a side-effect, not a "creation" per se. There are rules of course, but they are in the domain of duality only.

That is not will...that is it's very nature. Waves in the ocean, so to speak.

Now you have to realize that YOU are not your thoughts (mind).

Haha..we don't yell "RELAX HARDER!" either...