dwai

This is IMHO, so caveat emptor Vasanas will fall away on their own (gradually) as the mind rests more naturally in the witness as there is no do-ership anymore. When I had the first "taste" of this (when that driving thing happened), it lasted for almost one year, until I started discussing this with my friend who was getting into meditation and advaita...the more effort I put in trying to articulate this, the more I realized I'm attaching to the "knowledge" and farther I was getting from being that. I asked Master about this. He told me that "what you experienced spontaneously earlier will come back to you as permanent being once you empty yourself"...

Sanskrit is beautiful that way. it is hard to mis-pronounce it. Let me see if I can find an example of a proper version.

What? Never had an apple + orange smoothie? Delicious if I might say so

We are never not "it". It is not a state...that is our very Being! The avidya is in thinking we are not that already... I'll give you an example of my master, who is a jeevanamukta imho. He doesn't "do" anything, yet everything happens around him. Anywhere he goes, his energy and consciousness uplifts that place. His presence is enough for us to resonate with him. He does do, but by "not doing". If we ask him a question, he pauses and then answers from a depth that is not an ego self. He told me that Ego/mind is good as long as it understands it's place - it is in service of the Self (Dao or whatever you want to call it). When the ego-mind rests in the Witness, it is "I AM", which we already always are. This "I AM" is the gateway of sorts, the door that traverses from Emptiness to Everything-ness. But both the emptiness and the everything-ness are indivisible from the "I AM". This is the reason why the ancient ones labeled the Emptiness as "Paramarthika Satya" and the Everything-ness as "vyavaharika satya". When we rest in the "I AM", the happenings that need to happen in the "Everything-ness" will happen. There is no do-er...only the doings. That is what is "not doing". That is why there is "no effort".

The vasanas will come and go. If we don't attach to them, they don't attach to us. Haha I was once stuck in terrible traffic - took me 1 hr to cover 2 miles. This was a time when I was spontaneously resting in the witness by the grace of my Master. Traffic didn't bother none...it was as if there was no time elapsed at all. People were cutting into my lane left, right and center. And I just smiled at them, sent them love and let them do that - completely in the flow. So I know how it feels to do so. All these vasanas are associated with the body-mind. If the mind rest in the I AM, there are only happenings...

I've made similar observations and when my friends ask me to teach them mantras, I teach them the correct meter, etc. I love Shri M's explanation...

imho, the mind resting in the witness is the first step towards effortlessness. It takes some effort to get the mind to rest in the witness initially. Slowly it becomes natural for the mind to rest in the witness. Resting in the witness is being Present. Being present, one can then begin to act as action is needed, without worrying about the past and projecting into the future. The hardest part imho is patience...ie for the mind to accept that patience is a necessary virtue in this path. Until there is Presence. That is the effort...to take a practice and keep doing it, without feeling bored, tired, exhausted etc etc. It takes a "trick" of not attaching to the results of said effort...if we think about the effort, we become impatient. So if we don't expect any results and just do the practice, it will become effortless after the initial effort. This is the effortlessness that is being referred to in terms of Wu Wei or Nishkama Karma. Also imho, Mind and Ego are non-different.

I've started coming across Shri M and his books off late. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Madhukarnath His autobiography titled "Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master" I found as fascinating and inspiring as The Autobiography of a Yogi (and several times moved to tears as it tugged at a heart-string of deep yearning for the Himalayas in me). I also read a couple of his other books, one on Hinduism and the other on three principle Upanishads and found that his knowledge and approach was very impressive (and congruent with my personal understanding and experiences on the subject). Has anyone here had personal experiences with him, and/or learnt from him? Also this video associated with Shri M --

Gary Clyman does not represent Temple Style Tai Chi ... despite his self-proclaimed "oldest surviving student of Master Liao" adage! It's better to do indirect method of energy work -- http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42248-indirect-method-using-taiji-ball-practice/?hl=%2Bindirect+%2Bmethod Working with the channels using the mind directly is fraught with difficulty and is a forceful way. it's better to induce the qi movements.

If you can rest in a thought of no-thought, then it is no thought Thoughts by their nature are ephemeral and rise and fall. There is no persistence in thoughts...a thought might recur over and over...but it still rises and falls.

What is a "thought of no thought"? Is there a thought in that state or not? If there is a thought, then it is not no-thought. If there is no thought, then it is no-thought and not thought When there is no thought, there still remains an awareness of no-thought as the witness is eternal. That is what "observes" the mind-stream (thoughts).

"Swallowing qi" is advice my teacher gave me too in the intermediate stages of learning tai chi. Look into the horizon, close your eyes slowly, imagine you have pulled the entire universe into your self with your eyes. Now send that feeling down towards your lower dan tien. Swallow gently as if you are swallowing the universe itself and dropping into the LDT. There were many similar techniques we could use to aid in cultivation...

This is an excellent documentary on Papaji --

I saw an attempt to explaining the universe's evolution from nothing into everything back to nothing using thermodynamics. Was a pretty good show - called "Order and Disorder". Wasn't complete but came close enough - discerning minds can find the gaps... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_zrKyLemfg

First statement just comes across as bravado. Papaji lived a householder his entire adult life, till the point he passed away, so he knew what he was talking about... Second - that's an interesting point. My experience is that there is no need for ego to do anything beyond the bare minimum required to sustain the mind-body complex. Otherwise it causes suffering that can be avoided... Easier said than done though....

I've been reading arguments about what comprises a "sage" in the non-dualism perspective. The two options (perhaps there are a few more) are as follows - A sage is one who is free from the bondage of samsara, because they have realized their innate nature, and know without any iota of doubt that this innate nature is non-dual. All concepts and perceptions are merely projections of itself (Objectless Consciousness) on itself, and are ultimately devoid of "realness". Knowing this, the sage doesn't attach to any position (conceptions) and remains an atemporal and non-spatial presence, free from suffering (attachment to pleasures or rejection of pains). A sage is one who is free from the bondage of Samsara, but "vows" to turn their back from the above realization, and work towards the liberation of all other beings, using their now realized freedom to harness infinite power in this universe, and effect changes as needed - become a "ruler" sage. My contention is as follows - Once the Sage realizes that they are absolutely and unequivocally Non-Dual, there is no scope for the will of an independent infinite being that does actions to affect the limited beings (who are not yet realized). Any action that they do as an individual being (however unlimited their power might be) is going to be in the domain of dualism and therefore limited (because the domain of dualism is limited). Such an individual might be what is called "Ishvara" (God) or an Avatar etc etc, but they too are limited in nature (as its the limitation of the upadhi - limiting adjunct - the body, etc). They might be able to bend the "normal" rules (of space and time), but ultimately if they choose to remain bound in space and time (by opting to "bend" the rules), they remain dualistic. On the other hand, if a body-mind complex (Jiva) who is liberated (Jivanamukta) does not act of a limited volition, but all action becomes just happenings in the dualistic world (happenstance), then that qualifies as non-action (wu wei, nishkama karma) and therefore outside the bounds of karma and the mechanism of duality (maya). Happy to read more thoughts on this topic...I hope I wasn't clear as mud

I don't consider the mind to be consciousness..it is a tool of consciousness...a more substantial essence of consciousness even. That which I call Consciousness rises from the Heart. All deities and spirits ARE in duality. I saw this clear as day - there is pure consciousness and all things are super-impositions therein. The closer the super-imposition gets to the Pure Consciousness in terms of fine-ness/frequency of vibration, the more "holy" and "powerful" it gets (in the dualistic world). Space and time too are essentially aspects of this super-imposition and depending on how high the frequency of vibration (dimension if you please) is, the experience of space and time varies. But ultimately, they are all like waves of the same ocean. If we chose to focus on the waves, we mistakenly consider ourselves only waves and not the ocean.

Hi Dawei The awareness/consciousness is the one that travels between duality and non-duality. There simply is no other way. So when the consciousness just IS - Presence, it is not attached to polarity, therefore is Non-dual. There is no before or after, no here or there (no time, no space, only Presence/Being). When the consciousness is in space and time (means there is before and after, here and there), there is relatively no Presence/Being. So it's a choice. Either be Present or exist in space-time. So even if you were to bend the rules of space and time, you are doing so in space and time. So it is dualistic. As a corollary thereof, if one is Present, then they don't choose any more as there is no volition, since volition is in the domain of the mind and is predicated on past and future. Then anything that happens in the dualistic world is "not-doing" (if it involves that Presence). If one chooses to do anything, then they automatically leave the domain of Non-duality (Presence) by attaching to a past or future, here or there - hence domain of duality.

It's really about being Present as I understand it. If we apply "knowledge", it is based on memory, so the past. If we project about what is to come (anticipate), it is also based on memories of the past, so future is also derived from the past - memory. When we are Present, there is no memory, no past, no future - only happenings.

I've never tried that...but now I know

Or it could just be a mistaken understanding of what is written I won't belabor this anymore...thanks for your compassion and kindness. Hari Om Tat Sat _/|\_

The Self cannot be denied or negated...if it can, then ask "Who is it that is denying it?" and you'll be back to square one. We'll get absurdities like infinite independent streams of discrete consciousness (Alaya vijnana) all mutually co-rising to try and explain away the Self As much as it pains me to use this term (old Bums will know why I wince so when I use the term) - reifying the empty Self into an infinitely powerful "Being" is just that reification. We should not get caught up in labels and concepts.

So per the Advaita tradition, the associative step along with jnana (knowledge) acquisition (reading the classic texts) is atma vichara (or meditating on the Self). The process became clear to me after many months of inquiring "who am I?". The mind first started dropping into the Lower Dan Tien, where the eye of the spiraling dan tien (swadhisthana) was empty. So I continued this way for a few weeks, until the mind started falling into the middle dan tien (heart). Here I would sense more energetic activity but there mind becomes still as it rests there. Again after a few weeks of that, my mind started going to the dan tien above the Crown point - aka Guru Chakra. It started resting there. Again mind becomes still when it rests there. Through the practice, wherein I practice Tai chi, Mantra meditation, mindfulness etc all with the mind resting in either the heart or the guru chakra, the underlying witness became more and more apparent, such that it is usually "present" all the time, even while doing something that requires total "mental" concentration. Recently, I had an incident which triggered a new condition. I was feeling extremely "hot" (in the middle of the chicago winter) one night. I had a long practice that day...several times, both tai chi and seated meditation. I was feeling uncomfortable with the energy built up, so I sat down to meditate around midnight. I must've meditated for 30-40 minutes and then I got up and walked around to let the energy and blood circulation flow properly in the lower body (as the heart center was flush with energy sensation by then). As I lay down to sleep (around 1 am), I observed my body going to sleep gradually as they lost sensation. Only sensation was in my heart. I wasn't sure what was happening, so I got up several times and then eventually stood and drained my energy with some standing meditation (dao gong). Eventually i felt the energy move down to the lower dan tien and I was able to sleep. But since then, the awareness has remained in the heart area. Last night, as I lay down to sleep, I felt clearly, my body going to sleep and then my mind too slipping back into the heart center. And as soon as I focussed on it slipping back into the heart, it woke up and was fearful. It was a bizarre situation, where my awareness was perfectly calm and observing all this happening , and the mind was over-reacting with fear. It took some doing to ignore the mind's fear and finally fall asleep. Anyone has any thoughts on this?

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing. I just want to highlight a few points you made that have resonated with my personal experiences too (of course I resonate with what you and Grant wrote quite profoundly at this point)... First, I sense/"see" that pole (zhong ding(?)) from the Dan Tien above the Crown point down to the lower dan tien. Second, what you are stating about being in both the shifted as well as dualistic state is called Sahaja Samadhi or Sahaja Savikalpa Samadhi (being in the dualistic world but in meditative absorption at the same time). it is different from what is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi (where there is absolutely nothing...we become the void completely).