dwai

These are lyrics from my new song (which I've been working on for the past year or so )

Perhaps more elaboration is warranted. Recently a Yang stylist vehemently opposed the idea that the Yang Family long form doesn't contain all the "Secrets" and said that the Yang Family summarily denies ever having taught the Ching family incomplete taiji. My intention is not to rake up controversy but to inquire whether that might be true, because all sources I found concurred with the wikipedia article.

My comment wasn't about Western Gurus, but about the controversy with Gurus in the West (irrespective of whether they are Indian or Western)...

The Bhagavad Gita is not necessarily a "Krishna" document. It is a highly valuable spiritual document. So, I would recommend reading it for sure. There is bound to be stuff in there that'll make sense to you, appeal to you at a deeper level. Mother Kali is a powerful deity, and if she calls, you should respond. But be clear about your motivations.

Yes, if one finds their Guru, then surrender to the Guru. I don't recommend this for westerners because of the various "incidences" wrt to Gurus in the West (some warranted, others manufactured). Personal deity makes sense to me because it is a one-to-one relationship with divinity. Of course, its not the way for all... The deity doesn't necessarily have to be a Hindu deity of course. Choose your deity - it is called "Ishta Devata" (or Deity of choice) because of that. You choose the deity and you have a personal spiritual relation with him/her.

Hi Lifeforce, Thanks for sharing the details. I'm no expert/guru/teacher, so I can't offer guidance of course. What i can do is share my thoughts on this matter. Bhakti in my mind is the ultimate love. In India, the bhakti movement during the middle ages in the form of devotees such as Mira Bai, Kabir Das, Ravi Das, etc was basically recorded in the form of poetry and devotional songs called Bhajans. One avenue I have used to evoke this extreme, unconditional love is via the route of these bhajans and poetry. To truly feel the love, to immerse into the essence of poetry. Unfortunately, these were written in the vernacular (and at that in the tongue of those times...14th-17th century) so some background is needed. The "New Age" yoga movement in the West has some Bhaktas (devotees) who do sing bhajans - like Krishna Das (though I'm not very familiar with their work). You might have an entry into the bhakti world through their music. Second, bhakti is pure love for your deity of choice. If you had a deity that you could relate with from childhood, you might find it easier to surrender to the love for such a deity. Admittedly, in the Western world, you have limited choices when it comes to deities in the traditional culture (the idea of the deity therein is again based on Pure Love - so a relatively easy deity to focus on). The deity concept is very interesting...and while it is dualistic, it is also very valuable to establish a connection with the divinity that is resident in us all. In our "intelligence" and "knowledgeable" state, we tend to lose the emotional/love aspect of things and everything becomes more energy or more mental. Hope that helps.

I'd avoid the Hare Krsna commentary. I've read a few commentaries, but for good introduction, Eknath Easwaran's book is pretty good (and pretty affordable imho). http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Classics-Indian-Spirituality/dp/1586380192/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425678255&sr=1-1&keywords=bhagavad+gita

Yes. This is of course to be prefaced by saying "It is my humble understanding". Karma Yoga entails something called "Nishkaama Karma" (translated as Action without desire). If we consider Wu Wei as being Action without active intention, in my mind it is similar. Intention is predicated by desire (perhaps desire might be better replaced by volition). The premise is that we undertake that action which happens naturally to us. Certain things we cannot avoid (at least not till a significant level of mastery is reached - such as eating, breathing, etc. But those things too are not necessarily volitional, but a biological imperative). But for most things in life, only endeavors that are to be undertaken are those that we know either intuitively or via guidance from more advanced practitioners to be harmonious with Dao/Brahman. This is the gist of it.

Usually that is during Taiji practice or doing standing meditations. The most frequently felt ones are those used for microcosmic orbit meditation, or the macrocosmic orbit meditation, the dai mai (belt meridian), the ming men point, the dan tians. The channels that pass through the inner side of the wrists, etc. I think you will feel them more under these specific circumstances - you are very sensitive to qi flow you have blockages in specific meridians, as you unblock them. Under normal circumstances, the qi flows, you don't necessarily feel the qi as it flows through the meridians. When you get acupuncture or other meridian modifications done, you can feel them too.

I think this fits well with a discussion of the different approaches or yogas that one can employ in their quest. That is, not the ashtanga yoga but the 4 yogas, namely bhakti, karma, Jnana and raja. The kundalini raising/methodical body-mind exercising is considered to be Raja Yoga. The specific constitution and proclivities of individuals will determine what is best suited for them. If you read the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krishna clearly states that each of the 4 yogas are equally efficient. It is up to the individual to choose that which is best suited for him/her.

I think that if one has a good practice/good system of keeping the channels clean and open, then a lot of issues associated with "Kundalini" rising are offset. The spiritual aspect of the energy rising is the most relevant, other stuff is merely coincidental imho. Energy is energy...if you call it Qi it is so, Prana - so be it, Kundalini - so be it. There isn't any particular reservoir of energy separate from the prana of the body lying hidden, imho. It is a result of being able to sense and flow our internal energy better. The opening of the heart chakra resonates with me, in light of some recent experiences. It is in a sense a dawning of great emotional awareness -- that which is called "compassion" or "love"...but each of us have our own experiences as yardsticks and no two experiences are absolutely alike.

Shankaracharya only refuted sautrantika positions. http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?p=540&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

I will post about samkhya in more detail later. However it is the basis of the theory of materialism in the Hindu framework - it is the first that theorizes on the nature of existence and matter, and how consciousness and matter are related to each other. It is a dualistic framework. It more or less sets stage for the technical terminology used in all of the Indic philosphical systems (that varying sometimes refute it and sometimes accept it and yet other times both accept and refute it based on context) Sramana framework is another topic I'll post material about. If you want a detailed study on these look for a book titled "the fundamentals of indian philosophy" by Dr. ramakrishna puligandla http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Indian-Philosophy-Ramakrishna-Puligandla/dp/8124600872

You cannot build anything on faulty foundations. That said the popular philosphical framework in the immediately prebuddha times were samkhya and sramana

I call bullshit. Internal evidence in the rg Veda dates it's earliest material to between 7500-6000 BCE Moreover the analysis you presented is based on the assumption that there indo-Aryan language evolved from a larger indo-European proto language. The other theory is that indo-Arian languages gave birth to the various indo-European offsprings And further more, the rg Veda references the river Saraswati as the primary river and yet for the longest time Saraswati was considered to be a mythical river by indologists. Satellite imaging found the now dry Saraswati which indeed matches the location and description in the rg Veda. Geology tells us that Saraswati dried up due to tectonic activity around 1900 BCE. Where does it put max muller's opinion then? Mindlessly parroting the "accepted" partyline of the western academics is dangerous because the narrative of the 20th century was tainted with imperialist agenda of the previous two centuries.Traditional scholarship was never collaborated with during majority of that period. Things are changing now - the real history will become evident in the next 15-20 years

The iVC was Vedic civilization. The faulty history that they are not is a combination of British imperialist propaganda and ignorance on part of specifically max muller who dated the rg Veda based on the premise that the world was created around 4000 BCE.

Why don't you ask him yourself?

Yes that sounds about right. But only correction is that the single forms are not postures. They embody the 8 energies and 5 directions of tai chi. We do practice holding these forms in various postures but there are specific Taoist meditations that are part of the training that have far more details and nuances. Temple style is not just forms but goes way way deeper than that.

. The long form is secondary to the single forms. I haven't seen any family teach the single forms. Like I mentioned the long form is used to verify that we can take the feeling of qi as experienced in the single forms and carry it through the transitions. That being said, the long form is closer to the CMC long form than yang style. We in fact don't even follow the sequence of the long form after a certain level of maturity in practice. The forms just are what they are meant to be, as the energy makes it happen. Does that answer your question? As far as temple style - the label is concerned, it is because that's how master liao learnt it in a Taoist temple in his youth. it is upto us to either believe or disbelieve his words. There are many malicious intentions that led people to cast aspersions on master liao over the years, with some idiots even claiming BK Frantzis claimed that master Liao was white crane guy and not tai chi at all. bkF has personally acknowledged master Liao and his tai chi classics book as one of his continual reference materials and that shut down those lies soon after.

The timelines are questionable. Early Vedic period per native/ indian tradition is ~ 7500-6000 bcE

How many of the single forms have you seen? The long form is not important in temple style, expect for a tool to see whether we can stay in the tai chi state from form to form. Single form is what matters. If you see single form being practiced it'll seem familiar and alien at the same time. When I first started temple style I had already been doing yang style and didn't know what a form like repulse monkey really is. Or that ward off isn't really a "form", it is an energetic expression. I've not seen any other style show the understanding or depth in tai chi like temple style has.

Indeed. Why not start a thread in the Hindu section? The Vedic fire ceremonies are continued to this day in Hindu rituals. But like I mentioned, the fire ceremonies (yajnas) were not purely external. The Early Vedic period focussed a lot of Rta, the Natural Order of the Universe - "The Way" of the Universe. This Rta becomes Dharma eventually. So in essence, Rta and Dharma are more or less one and the same. The Fire ceremonies were around establishing balance, both internal as well as external.

I couldn't find your post on the Chopra center (though I noticed you had quoted it in this post of yours I'm replying to). Like I said, Fire and the Sun are not insignificant in the Vedic framework, but the role of Brahman is foremost. With the Vedas, there are 4 sections - the Samhitas, The Brahmanas, The Aranyakas and the Upanishads. Consider them to be the four elements that make up the Vedas. The Samhitas and Aranyakas deal with mantras and Ritual aspects , the Brahmanas contain commentaries and the Upanishads make up the contemplative and philosophical aspects of the Vedas. Through them all, Brahman is the common theme and eventually the primary focus, culminating in the Upanishads. The reason I pointed out to Taomeow that her Fire vs Water analogy isn't quite accurate is because of that - neither the Hindu/Vedic nor the Shramana/Buddhist systems are really "fire-worship based", even though the Buddhists did borrow a lot of the ritual aspects of the Vedic systems.. Water is paid supreme importance in the Vedic literature - where Sarasvati - the primary river and deity of the Rg Veda is referred to as "ambe tamey, nadi tamey" (The Supreme Mother, the Supreme River). Ayurveda recommends a balance of the five elements (Tattva) therein - Fire, Air, Ether, Earth and Water. The framework of Gunas, Rajas, Tamas and Sattva and doshas - Vata, Pitta and Kapha are all aspects of the Sankhya system, which is different from the Vedic/Vedantic system. It is easy to mix them up.

Vedic system is based on Brahman - the expanding one. The universe is called brahmanda or the expanding egg. It expands and collapses cyclically, thereby the material universe rising from and collapsing back into the Brahman. It is not based on fire or sun although both have places of significance in the Vedic perspective, as does water. The Vedic creation hymn - the nasadiya Sukta essentially says that there was undifferentiated water essence (wuji) from where the substantial and insubstantial came forth and from the interaction of the two rose the material universe. A very clear correspondence with the daoist perspective.

Those who know any metaphysical position/framework is only relative truth, will realize that any system that says it is the "way" is only making a truth claim. There are flaws with your sun-based vs water-based theory but I found it very interesting nonetheless.