dwai

I saw that after I asked my question. Sad indeed. I remember when people started to make a big deal about this guy (when he was a kid). Most likely, he was a janma Siddha (born with siddhis attained in a previous lifetime that manifested at a certain age in this life). His karmic inclination for meditation was very strong, so he fell into it naturally. But other karmic residues have been activated, and, as you pointed out, that is playing out.

Who is this character?

You should try shambhavi again - you might be surprised with the effect.

So you did Shambhavi? Do you still practice it?

Because Western "Yoga" is not real yoga (for the most part), it is what some folks call "vikalanga" yoga (vikalanga means handicapped) because it focuses on only the asana aspect of ashtanga (8-limbed) yoga. Interesting - which one were you part of?

It is harder nowadays, but this kind of stuff works using 'networking', akin to how finding a job or candidate for a job works in the regular world. For example, I know some reliable people whom I trust and who are, in turn, connected to teachers via their direct knowledge or indirectly through a trusted network. Access to such networks is not very easy, but it is possible. For example, I've had people on TDB reach out to me for help - depending on what they want, I have helped them out where possible, or if they needed specialized knowledge, I have referred them to trusted individuals in my network. I suspect the process works much as it works for me personally - I evaluate the individual's sincerity and then decide if I want to help them. Another way to get into this process would be to start with a popular system like Art of Living, Isha Foundation, the Bihar School of Yoga, a Vedanta society, the Chinmaya Mission, etc. Once individuals have spent enough time in these systems, they will develop their own networks and connections for deeper knowledge (if necessary).

It's a feature, not a bug

I voted “other” because sometimes the descriptions are literal while other times they are encoded. In the Hindu yoga/tantra world especially, the language used is called “sandhya bhasha” or literally “twilight language”. One needs to be an insider, ie with a teacher who is an insider to understand what is expressed in this language. So, attainments described often mean something completely different than what they mean literally.

Yes, they can. A still body will lead to a still mind. A still mind will lead to realizing the true nature.

Well said! And nothing beats a simple practice. We don't need fancy cultivation techniques if we can stand in wuji properly and do the primary Taichi forms correctly. In my experience, the most messed up people are those who over-index on method acquisition. Learning the first tai chi forms properly (8 energies, 5 directions) can take a couple of years of dedicated, daily practice. And one can develop both energetically and spiritually with just that if the proper context and attitude are present.

Damo Mitchell

There was Kunlun, Flying Phoenix, Spring Forest (and the O@AD stuff unfortunately associated with it), Stillness Movement, Verdesi, BK Frantzis, Gary Clyman, and so on. Like passing clouds they all are against the background of the Dao (and it's bums).

Bump

I don’t think it’s the same. Hindu practices have developed over literally 4-5 millennia. Not sure how old hermetics is, especially since gurdjieff and Bardon were much more recent figures. usually chanting is undertaken by initiation. But Hindu traditions have their own presiding deity (inherited as part of a family), and depending on one’s predilection (personal deity). Deities are benevolent and chanting their names/mantras will help. There is no harm if you have a pure mind. Meaning, don’t approach a deity for help to harm others, etc - that’s when it will backfire.

This is a good one

Touché

So we switch from one illusion to another? Why?

What can there be beyond this? I know, I've heard that. If that is the case, then it is not a full realization. After realization, all that happens is the exhaustion of the karma that produced this particular name-form application.

In my experience, determining what kind of and how much of practice is required depends on the individual. There is no one-size-fits-all in the spiritual path. But it is also true that the Advaita model is the correct model - I know it might raise some hackles. Still, once we get non-dual insight, it becomes apparent that it is ever-present, irrespective of whether someone recognizes it. The irony of trying to "make something happen" (such as producing an elixir or attaining enlightenment) is very apparent. There is nothing to be produced and attained - only recognition is needed. Once the recognition happens, there is an irreversible switch of perspective. But the steps outlined in many of the "attainment" based systems are necessary, though not for the reasons those systems outline. They are essential for the purification of the mind, for clearing the mud of the mind, so to speak, so that the true nature can be seen as the ground upon which all forms and names manifest. So all the "methods" that one might learn, spend years perfecting, etc., do have value, but preparatory steps (not to be mistaken for insignificant or less important). The old saying is as follows - the fruit ripens when the conditions are correct, and once it is ripe, it falls off the stem. The ripening process includes all these methods, techniques, and practices one undertakes. The falling off the branch by itself once ripe is what is called realization or recognition. The mahamrityunjay mantra goes like this - This liberation from death is not physical immortality - it is the realization of our true immortal nature - that which is beyond creation and destruction - that which is existence itself.

Another important point made by my teacher is, "don't try to do anything by yourself...let the Dao work through you." This we call 'Becoming empty (of body-mind identifixation).' So any "siddhis" are not really ours anyway - if we look at them from a sense of ownership, it is no longer in the domain of remaining empty.

My teacher told me a long time ago, power is bestowed upon you when you truly lose the interest in developing power. As long as there is the desire to acquire power, meaningful power will elude you (meaning, one can do parlor tricks but not anything meaningful). One example he gives of the kind of power is, if you have the power, you can walk into a mental institution and calm down agitated patients just by your presence. I’ve stories of him doing many things such teleport, walk through walls, etc, or his teacher levitating, and so on. But also the caveat emptor is always, “don’t crave this. This is not stuff you can desire for ulterior/trivial motives. It is a result of grace.” The quoted point of yours is more meaningful to me than anything else you’ve written (imho)

bump

I know we have pretty different views on this. But there is no such thing as "physiological effects" about realization. The results of realization (which occurs in the individual's mind) manifest as evaporation of fear, being equanimous despite whatever the circumstances might be, not a conditional thing. If it is conditional, then it is not real. If there are physiological changes, then they are ephemeral - the body that is born will decay and die.

The most significant change that matters is the practitioner's mind -- especially in the spiritual context. Is the mind clear or muddled? Does the mind cling to pleasure and runs way from pain? Does the mind attach to attainments of power? Is the mind equanimous? Is there a clear and complete recognition of True Nature, or is the recognition oscillating between clarity and obscuration (i.e., does the practitioner feel uncertain about the true nature of their being at times, or are they firmly rooted in true nature)? Does the identification occur with the mind-body or True Nature? When reading the Daodejing or the Nei Yeh, is there a clear and direct recognition of what is being said?

Bump