dwai
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Everything posted by dwai
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Master Liao (waysun) is often quoted as saying "no enemy, no self" - I interpret that as "no self and no other" such that when in sync with dao all boundaries disappear. Perhaps it's the nondualist in me that sees it this way...
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It can be understood in terms of natural rhythm...when you can get to a point that you can feel your own chi, and let ot resonate with the chi of nature (yuan chi), you are in sync with the nature of things...the natural frequency of energetic vibration. I will give you example of taiji chuan...when my teacher rolls hands with me and varies the vibration of his chi, if i want to stay in harmony, i have to raise my own chi vibrational frequency. Similarly when we connect with the vibrtional frequency of dao and resonate with it, all things will fall into place naturally...without forcing. Then effort becomes effortless...we have learn to feel this first, then trust our instincts. Sometimes occam's razor doesnt work in these cases because occam's razor is predicated on intellect and intellect is artificial...because the rules are artificial...
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Eliminate carbs and sugar for a few days (completely). Even fruits and sugary vegetables...drink lots of water. Sea salt and lean protein with lots of greens, broccoli etc. Only if you can deal with it though...
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But it is very simple actually...learn to sense the flow of energy all around, feel the rhythm and harmonize. Energy (chi) is primordial, intellect is artificial. A daoist learns to sense this chi and resonates with it (his chi changes frequency to match that of dao). Once in harmony things will happen as they should. If one tries too hard it is not harmony. If one doesn't try then too it is not harmony. When it happens effortlessly, harmony happens. That is wu Wei...doing without doing. Eventually no self no other...dao!
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A late response but in my humble opinion, a Daoist is one who can sense the rhythm of Dao and stays in harmony with it. Sometimes he might be viewed as bad, sometimes as good, usually as useless. He doesn't answer to anyone, nor does he ask any questions. He is truly free...to roll with the Dao. (Vague enough ? )
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I cannot speak with authority about the state of translations of chinese texts into englsh but i can say that most of the translators and commentators on indian texts did not really know the native languages and either worked off the works of the few that did or had native scholars translate the works into english or german and worked off them. As far as DDJ goes, our grandmaster Master Waysun Liao translates and comments on it quite different from translations i have read. For instance he suggests hat the "Te" is not "virtue" in the literal sense but rather refer to an imprint of "tao" within us. It is an energetic condition and has nothing to do with the "moralistic" virtue non-chinese take it to be.
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A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada reveals Vedic knowledge.
dwai replied to eye_of_the_storm's topic in Hindu Discussion
Srila prabhupada? As in founder of iskcon? My experiences with a few luminaries of iskcon has not been positive. I get similar feedback from other friends who have engaged iskconites in discussions. Vedic culture is alive to a large extent in India albeit it has changed with time. There are aspects of it that are atemporal. Especially the 4 ashrams or stages of life model. Unfortunately the aspects of Vedic culture that are most enriching are considered obsolete... -
http://www.medhajournal.com/philosophy/47-the-six-verses-to-liberation.html I am not mind, nor intellect, nor ego, nor the reflections of inner self (chitta). I am not the five senses. I am beyond that. I am not the ether, nor the earth, nor the fire, nor the wind (the five elements). I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. Neither can I be termed as energy (prana), nor five types of breath (vayus), nor the seven material essences, nor the five coverings (pancha-kosha). Neither am I the five instruments of elimination, procreation, motion, grasping, or speaking. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. I have no hatred or dislike, nor affiliation or liking, nor greed, nor delusion, nor pride or haughtiness, nor feelings of envy or jealousy. I have no duty (dharma), nor any money, nor any desire (kama), nor even liberation (moksha). I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. I have neither merit (virtue), nor demerit (vice). I do not commit sins or good deeds, nor have happiness or sorrow, pain or pleasure. I do not need mantras, holy places, scriptures (Vedas), rituals or sacrifices (yagnas). I am none of the triad of the observer or one who experiences, the process of observing or experiencing, or any object being observed or experienced. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. I do not have fear of death, as I do not have death. I have no separation from my true self, no doubt about my existence, nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. I am all pervasive. I am without any attributes, and without any form. I have neither attachment to the world, nor to liberation (mukti). I have no wishes for anything because I am everything, everywhere, every time, always in equilibrium. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness. Enjoy!
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Bump! Could the mods move this to the vedanta sub-forum please?
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That's just wrong. If you follow dao then just do so. I don't understand this overwhelming need to subsume everything into an American identity. Sometimes you have to let things be the way they are...any attempts to "transform" them ends up creating a mess. And the so calls three treasures are not exclusive to America (as In the us)...every culture has them in different guises.
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Lets build a new Way Some people say That's all right If you know the way The top of the mountain shows us everything around As far as the eyes can see The grandest road From that up high Ends up looking tiny There are many ways to the top And every step there is another stop Stops that tell tales of a traveller or two Who have taken the road Long before you Though there might be a few Less trodden upon Even those I'm afraid Are not un-gone You can see the faintest trail If you stop to see The steps of a traveller On the road to infinity What claim do we have to it When there's no untrodden path? We are but travelers of a less worn path We can only walk And sing and dance at each stop A smile on our faces And with hearts that hop At the hopes of an encounter On that less traveled path With truth that will reveal The stories untold As before our hearts Infinity unfolds
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Thoreau read Vedanta
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Please note that I am not specifically implying that just because someone is born into a particular country or linguistic group they would automatically understand these better than a non-native. What I am trying to say is that it is easier to comprehend the meaning beyond the words, the language behind the language if one is a native. It seems like "genetic" memory to me (although I know it is not)... TaoMeow said it right. For anyone to learn Daoism, they have to learn from a Master of Daoism and be a disciple. They have to be so in the traditional Chinese/Daoist sense (not suggesting one has to become a priest etc) and the traditional Daoist training. More than anything else, one has to have an empty cup and respect for the tradition that they are learning. After their preliminary learning period, they must have gratitude for what they have learnt. A while after that, they must not succumb to the allure of fame, money etc and cannibalize/bastardize that which they have learnt. They must also resist the temptation of making everything "same" (the honestly dumb notion that just because every valid mystical tradition leads to the same place, they must therefore be homogenized into oblivion until only a goop remains). Each "path" has it's own beauty, it's own "Way" so to speak (a little way to the highway). These account for our experiences and knowledge gained while on the path. So, while it's important to acknowledge that these all might lead to the same mountain top, each path is unique and deserves to be cherished, celebrated and retained in it's own right.
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An American Taoist doesn't however imply there is an American Taoism...right?
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Have you found that it is easy for you to glean the "truth" behind the words (as a result of the "feeling" thereof)? While I'm no philosopher, nor an expert on any subject whatsoever, I find it fascinating (and also a bit obvious upon introspection) that different biocultural groups could have different cognitive mechanisms. It's not just the spoken word but also the aesthetics of the written word as well. The Chinese have a most fascinating script, the ideographic script. It almost as if it is designed to trigger a different cognitive function (albeit perhaps when it developed there might have not been an "other" from which to set it apart). Could a Chinese literate bum illuminate how the cognitive aspect is different (as in how they read, interpret, translate etc)? This becomes moot for a native chinese speaker (who also thinks in say Mandarin) but a good subject would be someone who is non-native but has learnt to read, write, understand and speak mandarin? I can speak from the perspective of a native indian language speaker (I can read and write the bengali script and the devanagari script, understand and speak the southern indian language Kannada but not read/write in it). There might have been a time in my youth when I thought in my native tongue, but I do now mostly in english. That not withstanding, I can however "emote" with the nuances of the language at a subliminal level (ingrained with my cultural upbringing perhaps). I can understand the unspoken meanings of words beyond their mere dictionary translations. Eg: the word Dharma is used loosely to mean "religion". But to a native indian speaker, dharma signifies much more than religion. It implies duty, responsibility, a way of existence. It is one of those untranslatable words I mentioned earlier. I am not sure how much a Westerner would glean from merely the word or the import of the word in a sentence or verse. Take for example the statement -- "The tiger's dharma is to be a hunter". It might seem ludicrous to a non-native but to me it is natural and a familiar usage of the word "dharma" (in that we are not referring to the religion of the tiger of course, but the natural way of it's existence). Anyway, this topic is about Daoism so I'll desist from posting any more of my ramblings.
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It is interesting to see your cognitive process triggering "emotional" responses. My initial response is visual (in my mind's eye). It would be interesting to hear what others experienced with these words. I often falter with word association exercises as a result since the first thing that pops in mind is an image. Dao - now that is interesting. Mind's eye is blank with that word.
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Well articulated.
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The word door immediately triggered the image of a door... As an aside to the original post and subsequent responses thereof, could we try a little experiment? Lets take a few words and observe their effects on our cognitive response. Mountain Lake Sea Rain Forest Cave Electron Charge Nucleus Electricity
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I think the experiment was intended to be a study of cognitive response more than the psychoanalytical aspect (which occurs after the fact - a chain reaction following the cognitive process). Didn't mean to cause distress...
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Words have power. It is evident to those who scrutinize this because a "going beyond words" happens even during the reading of the words. A friend of mine, who is prof emeritus of philosophy at SUNY once shared this - He was teaching a course and part of it was (iirc) to do with the effect of words on people (his subject of research was bio-cultures and their effects on the cognitive processes). One of his students would not get how the same word could have different effects on people based on their cultural background. He asked this girl "what does the word Mother do to you?" She said the word mother means mother. So it didn't trigger an image or other visualization for her. She just couldn't get it that it might trigger something other than the intellectual inference that mother refers to a parent. But to someone like me it triggers a visual image of my own mother... His thesis is that depending on one's bio-cultural roots the cognitive process is different and different parts of the brain and associated neurobiological components are triggered by stimuli (like the word mother) Similarly spiritual literature triggers different cognitive responses in the reader. One can have profound realization by hearing words (like dao de jing or The Veda) or reading them etc. Others might just have an intellectual realization at some level reading or hearing the same words. Someone asked me on the Vedanta thread why memorize the Vedas when they could tap into the akashic records. My answer is pertinent to both that as well as this discussion -- Because words have power. To understand and experience the power one needs to learn to perceive in a certain way. Our reality is made up of percepts and concepts . To get to the reality behind the words one has to feel the words ( not merely hear or see them). Subjective anecdote - I am moved spiritually and emotionally hearing the Chandi path ( chanting of verses on the deity Chandi ) and it actually triggers chi movement in my body. The muladhara chakra starts to vibrate and the energy rises....i start feeling heat and it is very similar to how Taiji Chuan affects me sometimes . The science behind the art (of mystical experience) is that...the science of the words and their application.
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Dawei, It is true, but is it not also true that you need the syntax in the beginning? How easy would Dao be to understand without the dao de jing? If Lao tzu had not left the teachings behind would the process of being in the way be easier or harder? Would it be acceptable to take DDJ piecemeal and create something else from it, call it the American daoist guide? What we are discussing here is really about the stages that lead up to the dissolution of concepts and percepts...the science behind the art so to speak.
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Daoism is relatively insulated now but it might go the path of yoga and Vedanta. It is only a matter of time. As far as foreign terms are concerned -- well they aren't that foreign in the original tradition that you are raiding. Moreover, what's your equivalent for words like prana, Qi, prajna, dharma, Wu wei etc? There are many such words that are really untranslatable. there is no single word in english to describe it. The words that are being used today are inadequate and actually quiet wrong. Those who understand the native languages know what that means...there are cultural contexts that define certain terms (which one cannot possibly grok from the outside). @stig -- Genetic mutations might be natural but they must not turn away from the root or they run the risk of becoming grotesque
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Appropriation process is like this - 1) learn from a traditional source 2) create your own version of the tradition 3) gradually eliminate syntax, concepts that you are not comfortable with from your system 4) package and market your system as being original and unique (often deriding the original source) 5) deny all references to the roots Like the bozos who tried to patent turmeric, yoga Poses etc.
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I'm not against liking a philosopher or a tradition sans the cultural details. However creating a hodge-podge philosophy based on an existing system and then calling it a hyphenated-ism is hypocritical. It is a pathway to appropriation and eventually packaging and marketing to create systems so far removed from the source that it will breed generations of misguided souls. You will get things like Christian yoga, Christian tai chi, etc...
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But care must be taken to ensure we aren't guilty of appropriation and digestion. Someone once made an interesting observation (i've taken the liberty to articulate their more erudite statement as follows) : If a lion eats deer could we call that lionist deerism? Sure the lion gains nutrition from the deer. But what part of the deer remains ? And the by-product of such consumption inevitably is something rather undesirable (fecal matter)...
