dwai

I was perhaps a bit too "off the cuff" in my response. My apologies in that regard. <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> Sometimes I cannot control my irritation with the New-Age appropriation and attempts at trying to make everything "same". I am not of course saying that you adhere to that mindset (and your response has helped me towards that end). Also, I am not saying that these systems (that the new age tries to standardize into one single smoothie) are inherently saying anything different or that their goals are different (though in some cases they might well be), instead what I am saying is that there is value in the unique path charted out by each of these systems. By trying to homogenize all of these, we end up losing the unique beauty inherent to these various routes (on the map, so to speak).<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">I think there has been a lot of cross-pollination between Daoists and the Indic traditions (we know that it's happened with Chan Buddhism in China, which can be safely said to be an Indic import). The Daoist sounds meditation I am familiar with, albeit in the sytem that I study, the sounds are not emphasized too much. These are not the same as Mantras because Mantras work at multiple levels, sometimes simultaneously, sometimes in isolation (depending on the level of the practitioner) -- ie they work on multiple kosha-level (of body level).

Daoist mantras are probably a result of cross pollination with india. Mantra is a sanskrit word with a very specific meaning and purpose. You cant randomly pick things up from where ever and try to fit them into a mantric context. This is the problem with new agers...cant respect the sanctity and purity of anything...everything has to br mixed up. Well here's some news...if you mix too many things, you'll end up with diarhea...

Just dont fixate on it, if you ask me. I had similar experiences about 10 years ago...and my poor wife went almost nuts because the bed would start shaking as if there was an earthquake and a light would be floating above me all the while when i was asleep. When she asked me wht happened the previous night i'd tell her i was meditating in my dream. The "things" went away. They come back every now and then. To scknowledge them is to give them power.

Thanks Indeed the earth connection is dense and heavy...sky connection is light and fast. The system i practice suggests that we focus on crown point and earth connection (root) will automatically happen. Sofar it has been very accurate. The point i was trying to make is that by not fixating on a goal, the goal seems to appear by itself. Like effortless effort...if that means something...

I am nt that well versed with the taxonomy of internal alchemy but my experience tells me this arises (or descends) naturally, once we stop trying to do this. I think there in lies the crux of non-action. I think i encounter it each time i practice since the past month or so. Specifically when "tried" to move the various dan tians all i got is frustration. Now when i focus instead on a point (say crown point) something seems to descend on its own and fill the dts.

You are free to speculate what you want. I am free to speculate what i want. I can tell you i would not have been so free to share my thoughts if the brits still ruled india.

The response was knee-jerk. I dont think gandhiji is in the same league...he was way more advanced...had given up materialism...

Hi steve, My undertanding of ths matter is as follows: We are told at first to cultivate breath, because we dont have awareness of qi. As we focus on breath, we start to sense that which moves with the breath. Then we are told to drop te breath and only use intent to move the qi (not meaning stop breathing, only stop using breath to drive the yi to drive the qi) Then we are told to drop the yi and he qi will flow on its own. Does the qi not flow if we didnt focus on the breath? Of course it does.. We are alive because it does. Does it not flow without intent...of course it does. I think what happens as we move deeper into the practice is that the qi becomes more refined and stronger. And it can sense the qi at large and we have to get "out of the way" so it flows unimpeded by controls. So our true nature is that of dao...by dropping the controls we simply surrender to that. So does the "i" go away? No, it simply becomes the "i" of the dao... As to why it is so...ie the i separates us from dao ...i dont know. The hindus call it avidya or ignorance. I dont think thre is a simiar technical term in daoist thought. But the crux is no one knows...

so how much do you know about the guy (Mohandas Gandhi) to say that the conclusions drawn by the author (posted by Jetsun) was accurate? Or are you simply making an observation that Politics and personal spirituality bleed into each other? Do you make your political affiliations affect your personal spiritual quest? Does anyone who is serious about this? And sure, his politics were influenced by his beliefs as a practicing Hindu. That doesn't mean that his fasts were spiritual acts or somehow were acts of spiritual "bypassing". On the contrary, he was repeated abused, jailed, beaten up by the British police but he never ever expressed violence in reaction. He channeled all that into his determination to get his country rid of the British through non-violent, political action (or inaction in many cases). It's easy for some yahoo to sit in a Western country 60+ years after the man died to pronounce judgments and "express" opinions. At the end of the day, all he is (the author) doing, is making assumptions and trying to extrapolate from facts to fit a fictional theory (spiritual bypassing). The author wasn't there alongside Gandhi...he hasn't seen what it was like to live under the rule of an occupying force and not have any personal liberties.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=CtAzr-oKkYo http://youtube.com/watch?v=CtAzr-oKkYo Love this one...

I love anup jalota-ji's bhajans. When i was a kid, my grandfather would turn on his bhajans and those by purushottam das jalota ( anup's father)

To get to a point where the Qi can move with the universal Qi. Like I wrote, Yi is necessary (imho), till one can get their qi vibrating fast enough that it can resonate with universal Qi. Qi Gong is simply a tool to get us to a point when we can start vibrating at the "right" frequency. Also, the breath is a crude prop to get the Qi moving...breath has to be dropped to advance to higher levels of qi gong (ie qi should move irrespective of how you breath). So the levels should be: 1) using breath to co-ordinate the qi 2) using Yi to co-ordinate the qi 3) not using either breath or Yi, the qi moves on its own

I think that's at the beginner/intermediate level. As practice deepens, the objective is to get the "yi" out of the picture so your qi moves with the universal qi (or the Dao). To be able to allow the Dao to move your qi is to be able to vibrate at that frequency (so there is no self and no other...but only one -- re-integration). Or so I have been told as part of the system of Dao Gong I learn.

I'm not so sure that was an accurate way to expain gandhiji's satyagraha. His fasts were in political protest. Also it would be important to remember that gandhiji was a political reformist in his public life and his spiritual experiments were in private life...

Qi will move on its own after a certain stage. The yi needs to be dropped so the tao and te can be united.

Imho, meditation can be used as a "shield" from pain etc for a limited period only. As meditation deepens and people come face to face with their darkest parts then meditation truly begins. It develops compassion for oneself, makes one stop judging oneself and thereby others. Makes one resolve the traumas and fears as the darkness engulfs their being until like a beautiful dawn the realization of the true nature emerges...

This brings back to the surface of my mind the nagging question - "can a non-traditional hindu really undertand the synergies and interactions of the various strands of thoughts, rituals and practices that form the tapestry of hindu dharma"? I had asked any people this question. And i have gt dimaetrically different views. Imho, dharma is not philosophy and theology but a happy medium of tradition and philosophy. Philosophy provides the software and tradition/culture provides system through which the philosophy can be realized...the intrument of experiment being the individual seeker. The opposing view is that tradition/culture is not necessary...one can practice the dharms purely by philosophy and a psychosomatic apparatus. That is why i am very leery of westrners trying to reinterpret hinduism, buddhism or daoism. Because in my view each of these have a cultural aspect that is necessary for adoption. The system is not just a practice, t the culture-practice.

Thx jijaji... My first thought was, where else will the energy go? It has to naturally rise thru the spine....risig to the crown pt.

Also, from what I read, Babaji's kriya emphasizes the "thokar" which is subsequent to Kechari mudra. IINM, Guruyoga, you have learnt from Sri Shibendu Lahiri right?

I'm not familiar with different Kriya pranayams. Could you describe them to me? The two "Kriya" techniques I've learnt are Sudarshan Kriya (Sri Sri Ravi shankar) and while it's pretty powerful, it didn't do much for me, because I already had a practice that was giving me results. I also practiced Tamil Siddhar style yoga where we had to go through first a spinal purification (called Meru Danda Shuddhi) which was very interesting, in that it caused intense pressure in the head initially. Our teacher would not teach anything else until he determined that the body was ready for asanas. As the practice progressed, it did what I think is natural, ie raise the energy up through the spine. We would hold mudras and do standard pranayam with kumbhak (i was doing 1:4:2 and 1:2:4), following a sequence of asanas with no kumbhak but a certain type of energy stabilization technique. I suspect that it is very similar to the Kriya Yoga of Babaji/Lahiri Mahasaya path (albeit I don't have any personal experience in it)...my teacher said that Babaji was Bogar Nathar's student and he was teaching Bogar's techniques.

anulom-vilom, relaxed kapaalbhati are two that come to mind. Mostly, imho, anything with kumbhak in it is not safe without proper guidance. Also, Cyclical breathing with breath ratio of 1:2 is also good and practitioner can elongate the duration gradually (as long as it is effortless)...

Ideally, hatha yoga should be a prescriptive practice...ie one goes to their doctor who would then recommend asanas and pranayamas based on what is needed to remedy ailments or balance doshas. That said there are some generic asanas and pranayams that can be practiced in general...

To quote my grand master waysun liao in this context...tai chi without proper orientation in Dao is "tai chi like tai chi" ( meaning not the real thing...therefore meaningless). Similarly yoga without the remaining 6 limbs of yoga is " yoga like yoga" a cheap imitation ( and irritation). The branch that falls off the tree either gets burnt as firewood or rots and disappears... Sure people can develop tight butts and great bdies but thats the end of it, especially if the thirst for the unknown is not evoked...

Looks like a " hot " subject. Why not have a poll that inquires abt whether global warming discussion deserves to be in the genrl ctgry?