dwai

Not sure you understood what I implied. The "original" framework and the new framework are radically different and acquisition of knowledge within the context of one is not possible through the other. There is no need to reject the old for everything...only to reject it for lerning the new. Otherwise you will find conflicted individuals and appropritions and rebranded shit being sold as "new" breakthroughs in spirituality...you only have to look at the latest fad on ttb to kow what is being referred to.

Dont take my word for it...you will understand soon enough Peace...

You dig deep into the Western framework and you will be surprised as to how "deeply" the abrahamic traditions have actually shaped it. That includes Western science too. Descartes' statement "Cogito ergo sum" is a direct result of him having to reconcile his religious background with that of Science (as it was in those days). The rift that occurred and has continued ever since is the biggest problem with Modern Science, where the physical world and the mental world are irreconcilably split. Even those who have subscribed to a Post-modern framework or claim to be agnostic/atheist etc have been germinated with the legacy of two systems -- The Greek (Aristotelian -- equation of external appearances with "Goodness" and the rejection of the Middle ground, resulting in Either/Or and Black/White type binary logic) and the Abrahamic (the concept of Sin and the associated collective guilt which has been cultivated into the Western Psyche). Even if someone stands apart from this framework for the sake of "rejecting it", he/she is inadvertently reinforcing it. The fact that you would tend to associate the word with the description is indicative of the ingrained conditioning that you have been subjected to. And I'm not saying in a disparaging way...there are many great things that have sprung from the Western framework, but it is not something that can be used to access the Eastern/Dharmic framework, especially Eastern spirituality. One has to give up all the labels and conditioning of the former to be successful with the latter. There has to be context, a background in the tradition (be it Buddhism or Hinduism or Taoism) to be able to relate to the concepts and modality of thinking that the latter sprung from.

The nagging quetion in my head however keeps repeting itself... How can you shoot something tht you cannot see?

Oh thr paradox of human condition. Senss...cant live with them...cant live without them ;P

The problem for weterners is that their formative years have been at the hands of yahweh...so the word "God" automtically gets translated as a old white dude with white hair and beard sitting with an accounts ledger passing verdicts on the fate of his "children". The dharmic God is a completely different concept...thus allusions towards this dharmic God too gets flushed down the toilet of the western condition wrt religion ( be it apathy, antipathy or sympathy)

Er...actually they CAN be understood via buddha or nagarjuna...but not via blind faith buddhism... At the risk of seeming gloaty, i posted my thought here because this is a journey im fmilir with. I hve no intention of embrking in an advaita vs soethingelse discussion.?..those who hve context will automaticlly understnd...those who dont will do so one day...

Why dont you ask me? Oh wait...i told you so 4 years ago

I grin because it is bound to happen. If one is true to his/ her Self, the raft has to be discarded...especially the literalistic versions of it. Dont forget what you learnt and where/ whom you have learnt from. There have been too many cases of weterners doing a u-turn on native spritiual traditions and creating rebranded hash-browns sold in spiritual fastfood tradition. From what limited interaction ive ad with you, you seem like a sincere and sensible type....good luck on your journey...

Words can only lead to more words. Nonduality is simply the absence of objects in consciousness...only it is, nothing else. And then a thought and with that the infinite objects appear again. This cycle continues and the only constant being consciousness...that is nonduality, imho.

Until recently I was running 15-20 miles a week. I had a strong yoga practice which I have revived recently. I usually do 8-12 sets of surya namaskar at a decent pace (go through the sets in 15 minutes or so) followed by a sequance of Yoga asanas. I found that the surya namaskar gets my heart rate up and circulation going and promotes decent perspiration. Followed by the asanas (takes around 40 more minutes), followed by 10-15 minutes of shavasana (corpse pose) -- which doubles as rest + relaxation + meditation. If you want to try it, don't do the extreme back bends but only as much as possible. Also, while returning to the mountain pose, try and roll up one vertebrae at a time instead of rising back the way this person does (it's milder). I also do single-form tai chi and long form (both from Temple style as taught by Master Waysun Liao and his students) -- on days when I'm pressed for time, I do only the Surya Namaskars and the Tai chi.

You finish talking about everything; There are two roads before us. Along the long and painful journey, Our heavy baggage is split in two. In that case, you take the right: Go the way you believe is right. We'll take the left. Now your shadow melts Into the sunset... Far away, I'll wave with both hands Until you disappear. Farewell my friend, I won't forget you -- I'm proud that we were able to meet. A cane of hope will surely guide you into the light, In place of me. Your tears will dry... I'll keep praying Under the distant sky. Think of me again Somewhere -- I'm sure the same rain Is beating down on us. Ah -- cherry blossoms Dance... Ah -- on the paths Of our respective dreams... Now your shadow melts Into the sunset... Far away, I'll wave with both hands Until you disappear.

this is a japanese song...dont understand japanese very well but the translation was beautiful.

Indeed....share your ideas, as an individual, with your friends or acquaintances. But organized "sharing" of the idea, often in subversive ways is a travesty. First and foremost, the premise of proselytizing is that there is a deficiency in the "others" and the corollary thereof is that "my way is the best way". Isn't it a fact that driving force being missionary activity is to "bring the non-believers to the light"? Isn't it also therefore an insight into the ideology that gives rise to such activism? (ie "if you don't believe in what I do, you will suffer in eternal hell?") It is not possible to challenge these missionaries intellectually. You know why? Because once you go into the realm of "blind faith", no amount of intellectual reasoning will hold water. The concept is very black-and-white, especially in case of abrahamic religions. If you don't believe, you are a non-believer. if you are a non-believer, you will burn in hell. Tell me if that's not the common understanding based on which all proselytizing rises from... The problem is in subversive methods used. Yes, many of these people are simple and trusting. Once you gain their trust, they will believe almost anything. There are activities performed such as "throwing an idol of the native deity in water, along with a wooden cross". The cross is designed to float and the deity doesn't. The argument used is "my god's power is greater since his symbol didn't sink...your god is fake because the idol sank to the bottom of the lake". It seems absurd but this has been used widely in certain rural areas in India by missionaries. Another is throw the auspices of missionary institutions. People are actually incentivized to convert with "bribes" of advantages and opportunities that are not extended to those who don't. For someone who is starving or struggling to get a bag of rice, it's not much of an option (ie starve or convert). I'm giving extreme examples but the reality is more or less in the realm of these extremities. Any missionary who tries to convert me will give up his religion if he is open to debating with me. But I won't do that to another person and I expect them to respect my views and not try to convert me. One intellectual who has very meticulously studied this phenomenon of missionary intervention in foreign cultures is Rajiv Malhotra and you might want to read his academically documented and meticulously collected data in this book -- http://www.amazon.co...23297701&sr=8-2 Another book is titled "Being Different" which dissects the effect of this intervention in a geo-political landscape. You can get this book here -- http://www.amazon.co...23297701&sr=8-1 Both of these books are available in kindle ebook format. Why don't you give it a shot to understand the scale of the activities and the magnitude of the impact on a Native culture.

I've seen enough of this in my home country (india) which interestingly is considered a "harvest ground" for "saving souls". Whats really bad is that many evangelical groups operate in subversive ways in rural areas, among borderline illiterate people and try to cenvert them using sneaky techniques... As far as muslim countries are concerned...i think they are right about preventing organised conversion campaigns. There should be laws against tht everywhere. However there should be freedom to practice religion as an inividual freedom, so long as it does not involve organised proselytizing and conversion. If one gets to a stage in their lif where any particular religion is attractive for valid reasons, they should be free to choose...but not in the way it is done by destroying native cultures and traditions.

Nice. My friend has been practicing Sadhguru's techniques and teachings for over 3 years. He has seem remarkable difference in his existential condition since then...and it was an extremely positive change.

Evangelists spew this kind of crap in non-christian countries to try and convert the indigenous populations. And of course it is complete bullshit! Lake of fire my ass! They do it everywhere except in muslim countries. You know why? Tats because the muslim countries wont tolerate this bs and the proselytizers miht end up in a real lake of fire...

Interesting....from my part of the exercise -- It's got me thinking...do I really consider my "Self" to be a dilapidated old house? Something that's been reclaimed by the jungle (ie life)? Who did I feel the sorrow for? Myself? What does the broken furniture symbolize? What does it mean that I walked away from it all? Does it mean that I subconsciously want to walk away from who I am?

I' ve observed many discussions about choosing he right teacher, finding the perfect teacher and so on. One thing becomes increasingly clear...we look for ( ie most beginners) some set of qualitites in teachers that are either the result of overactive fantasies or simply projections of wht we consider to be the ideal virtues in one person. I ponder as to how realistic is it to expect perfection ( or as close to it as possible) in a human being? Are the rise and fall of most teachers ( in all thir scandalized glory) at least in part a result of the students' idealized projections being shattered? What do the bums think about this?

Very true. I wonder if thats why many seem to think that a teacher is not necessary ( some even get incensed at the idea of a teacher) . Since they are afraid of having their perfect visions shattered?

I had written this a couple of ers vack on medhajournal...dont think i'd posted it here...bums' thoughts are welcome

Quite the paradox, isnt it?

just stand and release into the ground. Don't do anything...stand in the beginning posture (Taiji Chuan) and let the energy naturally flow into the ground through your bubbling well. Each day you will relax more and then you will be grounded. This is a very good resource -- http://music.aol.com...ration/10291837 or get this book -- http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/1556434073 It works...you have to keep at it and stay detached from the process, let it naturally happen. The moment you try too hard, the energy will rise into your head. Instead just "let go". How exactly to do that is something that you will have to figure out (we all have our own unique way of letting go). Also, another time I had this happen to me was when I was starting off practicing a specific type of Kriya Yoga practice. It was an intense pressure, to the extent that my vision would start blurring slightly (not really physically, but there would be distortion in the perception). Best thing to do is to ease off (especially if it's being triggered by a physical practice) and build up the practice slowly. I also realized that with time and regular practice, the pressure was reduced (or perhaps my meridians got accustomed to the increased volume and intensity of energy flow). If we do it the right way and regularly, most good energy meditation techniques will ground the energy. It's best to let energy first ground and then start guiding it back upward. In fact, when the grounding is sufficient, it will naturally rise back upwards, imho.