dwai

Lakshman Joo was a great exponent of Kashmir Shaivism. Would it be of interest to discuss ks and concepts of abhinavagupta, etc here? I am greatly interested.

Fear of fear is usually what we mistake for fear. Its painful to get punched in the nose, but it the pain caused by the thought of getting punched in the nose that makes us flinch more than getting punched itself. Similarly with fear...its the mental amplification of the disomfort caused by fear that is scarier than ctually being afraid.

Isnt that your onditioned consciousness? Or do you not gree tht consiousness can be unconditioned?

submerge meaning "sink" right? Or is it floating? Isn't floating with the current another form of surrender?

By being wu wei are you not "surrendering" to Dao? Isn't the priary nature of wter also surrender?

Most of my conversations with atheists seems to hinge on thier definition of "god". You point out quite accurately that pantheistic or panentheistic societies dont have poblems of absolutism ir exclusivist positions because they are open to infinite posibilities. Indeed the "Gods" are reference models at various levels, intellectual, ethical, energetic. I consder them as gateways to the inifinity, especially for those who arent naturally inclined for difficult practices such as jnana yoga (the way of knowledge). To each his/her own...

If people really understood that nondual, there would be no room to create gods. Since tat understanding would mean thereis no rel separation between us and that...we are that. gods are necessary till one gets there for some, for some others its no gods. Some of the wisest and most astute practitioners of these systems i've met love their preffered deity...who am i to judge. I was deeply devoted at a certain stage...that kind of devotion is out of love, not fear of judgement. To be able to love without selfishness...simply surrender. That opens up many closed doors...

A very sensible approach indeed. I would consider myself in your camp in that respect (and fact of the matter is that we do agree more than we disagree on stuff) --- no flying or levitating for me.

The need to "understand" things using what my philosopher friend calls "A Categorical Framework" is imho, the greatest fallacy on our part (by us, I mean in general, thinking, rational human beings). Science is just "A categorical framework", it is neither universal nor perfect. The same phenomenon can be explained in perfectly rational and logical ways using categorical frameworks which are different from those posited by "science". We tend to think that Science is the end-all be-all tool of inquiry but it's not. I often like to cite the example of "Western medical science" vs "Traditional Chinese Medicine" or "Ayurveda". Each of these are successful and comprehensive medical systems which are capable of curing most diseases. However, the underlying metaphysics is different in each case. Is one better than the others? Can disease be explained and treated based on the rules each follow? Most certainly (as empirical data shows). Why do we "need" to explain everything via this obviously incomplete and non-universal lens (aka science)? Science cannot even explain things like Chi or Consciousness...there just aren't the appropriate rules set up to do so. So we need something else...what is it? Daoist metaphysics, or Vedantic metaphysics could...

thats a great question? Some say that is in a state of ecstacy and the universe is the result of it...others say that its how that is...no way to know the intentions or undertand a "no thing" with rules meant for things.

We assume that universe is same as nondual consciousness. Afaict, universe is the "10000 things" that are aspects of that one. Since that is outside of space and time, it simply exists...before the bang as well as after the bang. So that is a no thing...ie it is neither a thing nor not a thing.

Ok take 2 Consciousness isnt experiencing it is not experiencing...in other words...when all experiences have been eliminated consciousness is finally nondual...so unity is the inherent nature...(like sunlight...it reflects differentcolors basedon different properties of the objects that it is illimuniating, including the golden color we often relate sunlight to). Consciousness simply is, self aware, beyond time and space. All the infinite things are like bubbles of this that rise up ( due to various conditions) and think that they are separate from that one.

Ahem, be careful there might be a buddhabum attack for making such a scandalous allegation do is a natural result of inquiry into nature of "reality"...that shows that objects lack a self nature and it takes consciousness to give them meaning.

Mh, Are we self-aware in deep sleep? If not, then are we then lacking in consciousness under such circumstances?

Does the sun experience sunlight?

Hi Sun, I think I was abrupt in my explanation of what the logic behind considering Consciousness as being existent forever. So, here's mho of Why underlying consciousness exists forever. Once the unity of consciousness is established (via meditation), it is clear that everything is connected to everything else (or rather the whole universe is in fact One consciousness). While it is true that different people/groups give different interpretations of this, the fact of the matter is that such an experience does establish the fact that a state of "Non-duality" does exist. If such a Non-duality does exist, how is it possible that such a Consciousness can begin or end? Because the existence of the corporeal being changes at different instances of time and space (ie living things come to life and cease to live at various random instances of space and time), it is therefore logical to surmise that either the state of Non-Duality is a delusional state or the state of Non-Duality is eternal. Experience tells many practitioners that Non-Dual state is not delusion and that it can be reproduced by anyone at anytime with the proper practice of specific techniques (eg meditation). In that case, since Non-Duality is a valid experience, then the Consciousness that is encountered has to have existed forever and will never cease to exist. By stating it as such (as I did), I did run the risk of applying a limitation to it by space and time (or at least by time). But Non-Dual consciousness is atemporal and non-spatial. ie, it is neither bound by space, nor time. So one might argue that the very statement that it is eternal is moot (since it exists outside of space and time), and I personally am amenable to that position (aka The Dao that can be named is not the real Dao or Brahman is silence). I think that more often than not, we revert to applying conditioned labels and descriptions to something that is beyond labels, descriptions and rational comprehension. That is precisely why we find Buddhists positing the theory of Alaya Vijnana (or interconnected streams of consciousness which are an infinite series of point-in-time consciousness' dependently co-rising forever), while Advaitins stating that "That verily is Brahman, an ocean of existence-consciousness-bliss or Sat-Chit-Ananda".

Exactly...you articulated what i meant

Human sentience is just an aspect of sentience. Without sentience, not necessarily human sentience, there would be no knowledge. So a lifeless piece of rock floating in space may or may not exist, but without a sentience being aware of it, its existence will be unknown, in fact unknowable.

Reflects a lack of maturity on part of your friend. I've encountered similar issues (sometimes inflicted by myself on another and also vice versa). There is no easy way...I had to wait for both myself and the other to mature such that these things started to resolve themselves. No one likes to come face to face with unpleasant facts about themselves (no matter how trivial they may seem to us). Those who have the emotional and energetic maturity to see this for what it really is, realize that and are more likely to be forgiving. My 4-yr old daughter makes a terrible mess after each of her playing sessions...and it takes a reality check of her level of maturity to deal with it and clean up after her. I know it's not the same thing, but perhaps you need to consider this from that angle as well?

There's a lot of material out regarding the Tamil Siddhars. I can only share some aspects of what I learnt. The following is about my teacher: The technique involves a purification process called Spinal purification followed by Hatha Yoga asanas in a specific sequence (which he varies for different students with different needs). Depending on the readiness of the student he introduces pranayama practice (which is very different from any others I have learnt) which involves holding specific mudras in vajrasana, starting with first only rechaka and puraka with a special glottis control that he teaches the students. Eventually he introduces kumbhaka in the pranayama process and then after some more time introduces kapalabhati, bhastrika etc. He allows increasing duration of each cycle gradually...I was at a stage of doing kumbhaka for 40s per cycle at one point. He suggests traditional 1:4:2 ratio for celibates and 1:2:4 ratio for householders.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-family: arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-family: arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">He also initiates students into Arupa Dhyana (or Formless meditation). <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-family: arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-family: arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">I found the Asana sequences and the method he uses very very powerful, along with the pranayama. It activates the kundalini energy very quickly but without the side-effects we see advertised on various media (negative mostly). I cannot share more than this at the moment.

I don't like advertising this much. It's better for people to experience and make their own decisions. Spiritual practice should not be advertised like any material object up for sale...it is an internal process to even start on a path, and there are many enfolded circumstances that aren't obvious that facilitate an environment for this. imho, all that can (and should be) done is to point the way and then it's up to the individual (the decision to either embark or not). Too much promise based on dubious (or not) personal attestations can potentially lead to devastating results. One should not aspire to have that kind of karma accrued.

you're right. I have a similar experience after a break more than 4-5 days. My teacher explained this process several years back to me -- The 'growth' process is like climbing a peak and then walking a plateau as your body and mind adjust to new level of energy before starting on another peak and so on and so forth...he said one can seldom ever reach the final peak in these practices...because the peak is a moving/growing target, depending on your level of competence. That is in context of feeling "sensations" initially and then not so much till the next spurt happens (as we release blockages from deeper and deeper levels)

I studied with a teacher from Bogar's tradition (it's called Tamil Siddhar Tradition)...I can tell you that it's very powerful...yet very simple to learn. All you have to do is invest time and effort and you'll get the results.

by experiencing it directly.

How do you know without having the consciousness to gain that knowledge? If there wasn't a consciousness to register that, did it really matter? Also, it is a moot point for us sentient beings to discuss whether non-sentient reality exists independently because there would be no relevance to "us" as sentient beings, ie without our "being-ness".