dwai

My teacher says rooting will happen automatically...first learn to suspend from the crown point. One technique that fine tuned rooting for me is the three nails technique aught by william cc chen and his students, also i dont visualize anything, if your standing the chi ill sink on its own

Please substitute the translation of Chitta from "Mutable aspect of Human Beings" with "Consciousness"

without free will the structure of Karma does not make sense. If everything is pre-determined, then life in general would be deterministic. However, it is not (at least not compellingly so)...that gives credence to the fact that there is an element of the stochastic about life, which in turn would support that Free Will exists and is exercised.

This is a good way. May I suggest we discuss by section (so Samadhi Pada, Sadhana Pada, Vibhuti Pada and Kaivalya Pada). The reason being, each Sutra, while is profound makes more sense in context of the section. So we could approach each Sutra one by one, but perhaps having the Section available for reference would make the Sutras more meaningful?

Pretty astute! The only correction I'd suggest is to separate the Nirguna and the Saguna. The Saguna too is merely a reflection of the Nirguna, per Advaita, just like the Jiva is. Only difference is that the Saguna reflects a lot more of the Nirguna than the Jiva does. The limiting factor on the Saguna is less "limiting" (for lack of a better word) than that on the Jiva (Jiva is the entity with a body).

Dear xiejia, Brahma, vishnu and shiva are deities of the astika or "gnostic" traditions of india. For a dvaita vedantin, the deity is the absolute and the individual conditioned self or jiva is always separate from the deity. Other traditions have other models. For an advaitin, the deities are aspects of saguna brahman or the reflection of the brahman in the rational/phenomenal world. So the deities have names, descriptions, powers, etc. But, powerful as they might be, they are not nirguna brahman unless approached in that way..in which case one or the other deity is manifested as any number of others. Nirguna brahman is the formless, indescribable, rationally unimaginable infinity. It is dao. Sri ramakrishna paramahamsa, the great 19th century teacher used to give the analogy of a ladder. He said that the various traditions are like rungs of a ladder and nondual tradition os th final rung. A seeker is on any specific rung based on their karmic history and their mental temperament. So it is perfectly valid that initially an advaitin might focus on a specific deity to develop concentration, meditate, devotion, love, compassion until he or she reaches the next rung of the ladder and leave the form behind and move to formless.

Its important to know the difference between a vakya/statement, a shloka/verse and a mantra. Five is right, a lot of the mantras in the list have seed mantras and are tantric in nature. Aham brHmasmi is a vakya and not. Mantra. A typical vedic mantra is the gayatri mantra. A good book to start off on mantra practice is that by swAmi vishnudevananda titled mantra meditation.

In yoga/pranayam parlance this is called anuloma viloma. When done with a specific mudra (or hand seal) it is called nadi shodhana (with or without breath retention). Your observation of nostril balaning is very true...it is meant to blance out the two channels (ida and pingala) or the left and riht channels that run alongside the central channel or sushumna. Depending on time of day, one or the other will be active.

I noticed that the Buddha bums successfully campaigned to get a sub-forum for Buddhism. Although it seems that there are far less individuals interested in Vedanta (and there are other more suitable fora for these discussions), it would be a shame to see it not get the prominence it deserves, given that it too is a powerful and effective Non-dualism vehicle.

This is another interesting PDF on the topic. Don't really know the author, but it's pretty academic in it's approach -- http://www.scribd.com/doc/7338362/Patanjali-YogaSutras-Sanskrit-English

that's a great idea steve! Atha Yoga Vichara

Hi Steve, I think the biggest hurdle in discussing Vedanta and Yoga (or Tantra) in their "uncontaminated form" (and I use the word uncontaminated with some trepidation) in the past has been certain people stepping in to opine about the veracity of these traditions (my xyz is better than that or no, that's not the right view etc). Also, the fact that Non-dualism (the Western phenomenon) is oftentimes border-line new-age, and while I don't have a problem with that school of thinking per se, it does tend to confuse and misguide discussions on this topic. So, let's suppose we start having a discussion on Advaita Vedanta and start with elaborating the concepts therein, techniques used to validate the "theory", it would be interesting to see how quickly it turns into a sordid mess because someone would chime in about Alaya Vijnana and there would be ridiculous debates about how "my zero is zero-er than your zero" or "your zero is not really zero because you tend to reify this or that" etc. I know there are many on this forum who share my opinions about various traditions being simply fingers pointing to the moon, but it does make sense (imho at least) to share what each of these traditions bring to the table as far as description and methodology is concerned. Yoga is an interesting subject, since it has been traditionally used by seemingly opposing schools of indian philosophy (called Darshana) to experience that which the respective theories have proposed. So, Yoga is a method (sometimes in toto and sometimes in part) employed by practitioners of the said schools as a practical way to experince their respective teachings (eg: Advaitins and Tantrikas use Yoga as a tool to realize the non-dualism they each refer to, Samkhya is more of a theoritical component to which the traditional Yoga school is the practical component anyway).

Sean, I guess a Non-Dual discussion forum could work, but I suspect that it would be overrun by a "certain" demographic. Advaita Vedanta (and Vedanta) in itself is a vast ocean and there can be a great deal of content and discussions that will result from sticking to it. I would say having an Indian Yoga/Tantra/Vedanta section would make more sense purely because they have more in common than not. As far as Mahayana goes, isn't that a branch of Buddhism? Should it not therefore be included in the Buddha bum section? As much as I hate to think of the "segmentation" this could cause, I think it would do more good than harm if the Bums decided to float a distinct sub-forum for the Indic traditions.

I should have qualified that with "with intent and awareness"

Hi informer, vedanta is actually a colletion of systems based on the vedic texts called the upanishads. There are three main schools of vedanta, ie based on interpretation of three primary masters of the upanishads. Advaita vedanta as taught by shankaracharya, which is pure nondualist school. There is the dvaita vedanta as taught by madhava which is pure dualistic school and then vishishtadvaita taught by ramanuja or relative nondualism or special nondualism. The upanishads themselves are a collection of aphorisms recorded over several hundreds of years, some predating the buddha and some postdating him. The upanishads dont themselves delve into whether ultimate reality is dualistic or nondualistic. They are narratives of experiences of various sages as told to their students. Upanishads are usually in the question and answer form, recording discussions between teachers and their students. The vedic sages encountered an infinite and suprarational consciousness in their meditations which they refer to as brahman. So the upanishads are records of how these sages realized there is that which they call brahman and what seekers can do to experience brahman themselves. Furthermore, they attempt to describe what brahman is not, since brahman cannot be sensed by the sensory apparatii and be grasped by the purely rational mind. Advaita vedAnta is the teaching of shankara, an 8th century mAster about how to acquire knowledge of brahman in the context of the upanishadic documents.

Spend enough time in any mechanical, repetitive action and the following will naturally happen: 1) Observer mind will surface 2) spend enough time not latching on to thoughts while in observer mind and mind will automatically start expanding (by mind expanding I mean the gap between thoughts will elongate) 3) spend enough time in the gap and it will result in cessation of thoughts These of course are dependent on having a mind-frame to not be eager to experience (anything at all) and be open and accepting of anything and everything that rises, by detaching oneself from the thoughts and emotions. Any of the following (and many more unlisted) can be used to induce this: breath observation, yogic asanas, taiji chuan, running, walking, gardening (add your favorite activity)

it's happens to me when I meditate on the pulse (to find the pulse between the heartbeats and to let it take over)...I don't do it very often.

Yoga practitioners have been doing these techniques for thousands of years. There are prerequisites though...dietary discipline, lifestyle etc. Breath retention is the most powerful technique I have enountered so far in building up fire in the lower dan tian. I have comfortably done breath control ( pranayama ) in ratio 1:4:2 for a 40s retention. That shouldn't mean eveyone can or should do it. Pranayama is best learnt under a competent teacher.

Keep at it...the gap will increase...then the true self will appear....just dont be hard on yourself for drifting...

Mrs v The answer is in the gap between our thoughts. It can be verified anytime, anywhere by anyone.

Third criterion is "transport a chosen few, carefully hand-selected buddha bums back with the time machine" Then see how the whole situation transpires...

Sit relaxed and observe your breath...going in, coming out. No guilt, no pressure....just you and your breath....

I suggest you use something similar to "Buddhist Discussion -- blah blah blah" in your title and no one will disturb you guys.

Hi Mal, I think Taiji Chuan is very much Taoist, albeit it can (and often is) taught in a "secular" manner. Just the same as Yoga is very much Hindu, but can (and often is) taught in a "secular" manner. What specific teachers or schools do with the knowledge and how they wish to disseminate it is their prerogative (in many cases is a result of the blind leading the blind). The goal of Taiji Chuan practice as I've been taught are about union with Tao. The tradition in which I am learning is precisely about that (if you get a chance, read Master Waysun Liao's books) and all our practices lead up to that. We have the martial aspect, Fa Jin training, etc all as part of the curriculum, but as Master Liao is quoted as having said "Martial application of Tai Chi is the lowest level of attainment". According to Master Liao, Martial application is the first step in tai chi practice. Next is Healing...final is Spiritual transformation...of reconnecting with our Te and therefore with Tao.

the full becomes empty then emptiness fills the fullness what is full is empty what is empty is also full there can never be an emptiness that is not full there can never be a fullness that is not empty