dwai

An Ethical/moral life is necessary for the purification of the mind (or preventing sullying of the mind). But for enlightenment, an adequate effort is needed to realize one's True Nature. Even if one attains nirvikalpa samadhi, it will not necessarily lead to full realization, because realization occurs in the mind, and until the purified mind is not actively directed towards its source, enlightenment is not complete. For that, the right teaching is required. That doesn't even need to come from a live teacher (though it is best to have one) -- just reading/listening to the teachings is sufficient. The foundational requirement is a purified mind, the primary condition is the proper focus of the purified mind towards its source. How does one know if the mind is purified enough -- if the mind can be focused unwaveringly on a single thought (say on a deity), it is purified. Better still if the mind can be made still (chitta vritti nirodha) without a thought. But then, the teaching (jnana) needs to be provided, which will help guide the mind to its source. The purer the mind is, the lower the level of effort required for realization.

@Apech rapidly climbed atop a little hillock, as the group stepped out of the pine forest at the foot of Mt. Freezerburn. He tilted his head backward, nose in the air and inhaled noisily for what seemed like a long time. And then he let out a loud yodel - “yodellehihooooo”, and then dramatically gesticulated with his hands. He whispered, “wait for it…wait for it…wait for it…and NOW!” A concerto of yodels reverberated in the valley of Mt. Freezerburn…echoing ethereally, the mellifluous notes ricocheting across the expanse and swept into the deep pine forest. From behind various crevasses and jagged boulders on the mountain, emerged @MIchael80, @freeform, @anshino23, and many others. @freeform raised his hands up in the air, as if saying “hallelujah in daoist” and exclaimed, “Ming before Xing, or you shall not pass!!!” @Nungali said, “there is no separation between Ming and Xing for us western wizards…we follow the ways of Bardon…fire, water, earth and ether, those are the elementals we work with.” @natural chimed in musically, “all you need is xing….all you need is xing, all you need is xing, and xing is all you need.”

Ah! I see, and I agree. Order and discipline are necessary for spiritual practices. If someone seeks freedom to be able to do whatever they want, that is certainly counterproductive -- doing what one wants to do, is also a trap - because it is almost always tied to some form of craving or aversion. Ramana Maharshi had a saying, "you need a thorn to remove a thorn that's stuck deep in your foot", or in other words, using a needle to remove a splinter. Discipline/order is akin to the needle, which might be necessary to remove craving and aversion from one's life.

IMHO, freedom (as in spiritual freedom) is actually freedom from the bondage of craving and aversion, and hence from suffering. Indeed, as you observed, one still has to "live" in the world after the purported spiritual liberation. Freedom doesn't mean one will disappear in a puff of smoke, materialize and dematerialize their body as they deem fit, or for the most parts freedom from the natural laws that govern the material universe. But rather, freedom is in not clinging to the perceived pleasurable/good, and not running away from the perceived unpleasant/bad phenomena one experiences in life. The freedom is from the identifixation with the personality, circumstances and conditions one might find themselves in.

This is an incredible conversation, most highly recommended for all. @steve on the internet @silent thunder @forestofemptiness @C T @stirling @neti neti might enjoy this a lot

Why not create a game which is immersive, transformative at a personal level, and a gateway into spiritual pursuits (potentially)? It might be very interesting to see how it works out in an AR/VR format. P.S. I've written and published one novel with similar attributes, and am in the process of writing its sequel.

I meant from a historical perspective.

Buddhism is very much part of the ecosystem/tapestry as are the rest of the religions you mentioned. They happily coexist. The reason why Buddhism expanded in East/south-east Asian countries is because it had state patronage in those regions. Not really. The Buddha’s family belonged to the solar lineage, same one as Lord Rama (avatar). So it’s not unnatural at all. The Buddha was not a Buddhist after all, and he wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with people considering him an Avatar.

That is also a myth. Historically, during the Islamic invasions period, Buddhist centers of learning were targeted - the Universities like Nalanda were sacked and manuscripts burnt. But even to this day, many Indian families have individual members practicing multiple systems, some 'Buddhist', some Jain, while others are more traditional Hindus. The Buddha is considered an avatar of Lord Vishnu and is revered along the same lines as Krishna and Rama in India. Post Independence, there were political angles that were exploited, but that's a story for another thread....

Now with CV-19 transforming into less dangerous omicron+ variants, I think the pandemic is soon going to transform into a new normal with progressively lower mortality rates (just my humble opinion, so grain of salt is recommended). One of the things that this terrible disease has shone a light on, is whether we have the ability to discuss this topic (and extrapolating to other contentious topics like that) dispassionately, in a responsible manner. I hope now, we can all be more retrospective in our approach, eventually be able to have discourses in a respectful manner. Kudos are actually deserved by @zerostao and @Trunk on being thought leaders and decisive in their proactive and reactive measures. Also @ilumairen, and @steve you should not shirk away from the yeoman service you’ve provided to this community amidst the chaos, when it was most needed.

The divide between Buddhism and Hinduism (as viewed in the West) is really an artificial one, created by Western scholars who studied Indic traditions. Both are traditions within Sanatana Dharma. In fact, Buddhism and Jainism are considered nastika (that don't consider Vedas to be the absolute spiritual authority) paths of Sanatana dharma. As far as cross-pollination is concerned, the Buddha was deeply influenced by a combination of Samkhya, Purva Mimamsa (early Vedic), and Sramana (Jaina) ideas and concepts. In terms of Advaita Vedanta specifically, it is quite possible that they exchanged concepts as well. Adi Shankaracharya (considered to be the most important preceptor of Advaita Vedanta had debated (and bested) with at least two specific Buddhist schools of his times. But, on the same token, his teacher's teacher, Gaudapadacharya, has been accused of being a 'prachanna bauddha' (crypto-buddhist) by subsequent dualistic/qualified monist exponents of Vedanta as well. Personally, I attribute the similarities to be a consequence of, and a indicator of the fact that the Truth is essentially One.

I thought I'd share a really good little book that covers much of the same topic as in the discussion above, but from a Daoist's perspective. https://www.amazon.com/Dimension-One-Laws-Universe-According-ebook/dp/B09R6FXZWS

This is a natural outcome of “awakening”, and depending on the individual temperament, also intuitively known (in varying degrees) before said awakening. The truth is one, the wise speak of it in different ways (ekam sat vipraha bahuda vadanti). This is a classic line from the Vedas. I think, on the topic of where the misunderstanding vis-a-vis God and Buddhist students arises is due to the fact that God is popularly misunderstood/misrepresented as “a being”. According to vedanta, God is not “a being”, but rather is being/existence (Sat) itself, Awareness (chit) itself, and completeness/fullness/bliss itself.

Don’t perpetuate misinformation please! Lingam literally means symbol, and has nothing to do with the male reproductive organ (or any metaphysical version thereof). @dawn90 I would very much appreciate it if you moved these discussions to the general forum instead of the Hindu sub-forum. Unfortunately, what you’re posting about has nothing to do with Hindu dharma traditions.

@Apech stood up, pacing worriedly at the mouth of the sarasvati-Indus delta. Looking westward into the horizon, he mumbled under his breath, “….what was that poem I learnt in school? Oh what was it? It seems so apt for what my eyes see here, right now..” @Nungali, ever the mind-reader, spake thus — “Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.” @Apech’s eyes lit up in recognition, “that is it! That is it!” He exclaimed excitedly! And then shrank back visibly, mortified at his mind being read with such impunity! “How could you do this sir! You wizard, you!! Reading my mind without my permission!” He lamented.

There are different variations. I shared what I have learned William CC Chen had another version, which he called the "Three nails" method. Stand as if your feet were nailed into the ground with one nail being the ball K1 point, the other being the center of the big toe and the third being the center of your heel. http://www.williamccchen.com/3nails.htm In the system I practice, in the initial stages, we stand for extended periods of time, and over time the body adjusts, releases, and the energy grounds very nicely without having to stand with putting pressure like Damo describes it. There is a reason why the weight needs to be evenly balanced -- especially if you're moving around in the martial context. I did watch Damo's video and he clarifies that he only recommends that way of standing because (western/modern) people are used to wearing shoes all the time and that changes the way their feet interact with the ground. If the standing is done right, there will be a "Wet" feeling in the soles of the feet -- like you're standing in thick muddy water. Personally, I grew up walking barefoot or in flip-flops for most of my childhood -- so I never had the issues that he thinks are endemic in the masses.

interestingly, the Vedantic God is nothing but awareness veiled in satva. That is the root of the manifest universe. Once sufficient satva has been “cultivated” (by the process of purification), the mind can directly see this “light” shining forth in all phenomena. Maybe that’s because of cultural contexts?

As they slowly made their way to the valleys of Mt. Daobumis, some angry looking individuals stood blocking the way. They loudly proclaimed, “we are the original dao bums…and we claim sovereignty over Mt. Daobumis!” @zerostao was a bit bewildered, as these were all part of the bums family — led astray due to a preference for their right side. He asked, “what is original? And what is artificial?” The “originals” retorted, “we challenge you to a battle, as per the old tradition. Limber your neurons and sinews as we shall battle with our knowledge of the dao, emptiness, void, and samsara.” The quicksilver @Earl Grey stepped forward, and replied, “allow me to go first my friends”. The “originals” sent forth their champion, “the blaster of joe”. The two opponents sat down facing each other in seiza, and as the battle was about to commence, a loud voice from behind a boulder shouted, “stop! You cannot possibly battle without mastering the full lotus! Here…let me show you how it’s done” It was the drew of hempel, as he split himself astrally into his twin, each facing its counterpart. They sat down in full lotus, and flexed their pineal glands, sending themselves into infinite spirals of paroxysmal bliss!

Thanks Jose and @liminal_luke!!

After his bath, @dwai turned to @Apech and said with great excitement, I saw @zerostao during the reverie, who told me that it’s both…AND, btw, folks - a reverie only works at the level of the mind! So no baths are necessary @blue eyed snake - irrespective of whether the reverie was deep or light. Of course, that happened as a flashback (before reaching the great Marblehead). The intrepid travelers spoke in unison, “you must become our official historian @Apech— you have a way with words. Your skillful means make even nefarious activities in the McDonald’s Inn seem somewhat hilarious and mysterious at the same time!” The group turned around again, taking in the ancient landscape (“with their eyes, mind you!”, should anyone be getting any silly notions in their minds). They saw that from a distance, they didn’t look so scary or desolate anymore. The lands that were once ravaged by battles lay fertile once again — the warring tribes that stayed behind had learned to coexist harmoniously, thanks to the work that was done by sheriff @Trunk and his trusted deputies @steve, @thelerner, @zerostao, @ilumairen and @liminal_luke!

The old man, threw up his hands in disgust, as he was familiar with the fear and suspicion he evoked on strangers. He wasn’t really a demon, he was actually a native deity who had aged due to the erosion of faith and trust in him over centuries, as mankind lost its moorings and became besotted with science and technology (the new gods). @silent thunder noticed this. He turned back around, and left an offering of a fruit, flowers and mead for this forgotten deity.

@Apech masterfully maintained the threads of the adventure, while calmly guiding the direction when needed. What lies in wait for this band of lovable misfits, at their destination? Or is there even a destination? @dwai fell into a deep reverie, as he pondered whether the purpose was the journey or the destination.

I think you're wasting your time on this kind of inquiry - I don't mean to be harsh, just stating my observations. Don't try to hack the system -- as a rule, especially true in spiritual practices -- shortcuts end up being the longest path to your objective.

I think it is not disgust with "outward breath" but the outside world -- this is called vairagya, often translated as dispassion. In my experience, it is a sense of revulsion. But it is an intermediate stage before full realization occurs.

My teacher always tells us - “I’m always connected to you, even if you are not aware of it.” To which we ask, “Sifu, does it make a difference if we are aware of it or not?” His reply (paraphrasing), “It helps more if you are aware, but it helps even if you are not aware.” I think ymmv is quite apropos here — if you’ve fallen into a poorly lit pit, knowing that a rescue line has been dropped down by someone outside, and knowing what that line looks/feels like will help you pull yourself out. Otherwise, you might find, recognize and use the line eventually, but what if you stayed long enough in the pit that you are incapable of climbing out? Or worse, what if you have grown comfortable in the “safety” of said pit?