dwai

Muy Bien

Been listening to some progressive rock blended with indian classical music. Discovered this band (Advaita) recently...the name was something that immediately tugged at my heart-strings....and their music....love it

I shouldn't be speaking on behalf of forestofemptiness, but I suspect that he's playing the "Devil's Advocate" with his line of questioning on this discussion. He is an advanced practitioner IMHO and has a solid understanding of Jnana traditions. @forestofemptiness can correct me if he thinks I'm wrong in my assessment of his motivation. It is perfectly okay to have differing perspectives, but that "clinging to a contradictory set of beliefs" seems to be an outright dismissal. There are many on this forum who have their personal theories and conceptualizations based on their personal history and experiences. It's okay to say, "I think you are wrong in your view, because of x, y, and z", but if it is worded along the lines of "you are a lost cause because of your views" or worse, refer to someone in the third-person while simultaneously passing a pronouncement on their "capability to understand something because of their views", it comes across as passive-aggressive and condescending. Some of us older hands on the board have developed a rather thick skin (and by that I include myself). But what about many of our newer members? Or those who have a lower threshold of this kind of behavior? Why should they have to put up with it when there is no need for that. If you want to share something personal with someone, better to do it in a direct message. I think the mod team has been fair with their treatment of this kind of behavior -- other members were correctly censured for this, and one was banned on account of repeatedly doing similar things despite fair warning that this was not welcome. P.S. BTW this is my opinion as a member

Just as an FYI, forestofemptiness and I go way back in "real life" (a good 15 years or so)...we shared a teacher at one point and even pushed hands with each other on a somewhat regular basis for a period of time, and he knows me far better than you do

I think you meant "no reason NOT to help where you can"?

I have his books and his thoughts are congruent with most of what I’ve been taught. Some things he clearly doesn’t have any experience about, like when he compares other traditions with his views of enlightenment etc, and he should be more circumspect about what he says in that regard. But, imho, for beginner to intermediate level, he is excellent.

I found it amusing that someone would venture to analyze my character and draw such ridiculous conclusions as you did. My emoji reaction doesn't imply that I condone your action, or that it should be construed as tacit approval of similar action (by anyone).

Why only astral? You can see the causal as well. Key is to become empty and develop “listening”. Then the listening will transform into “understanding”. In terms of a “method”, there are practices that are done, but I don’t think there are names — only instructions handed down from teacher to student. At least that’s how it is in the system I practice.

Language yes, certainly. Though modern Tamil is chock full of Sanskrit “loan words”. But this Aryan-Dravidian ethnic/racial myth has been weaponized since the time of the British empire, and sadly does so even now. Wrt what constitutes a civilization, Indian view on it pertains to a more intellectual/spiritual position than a material one. A group could have the best of urban technology, etc and be very uncivilized (asabhya). On the other hand, a group could live in a forest or in caves and be civilized (sabhya).

Here's a very good discussion on the Dravidian myth ---

That looks like a delicious meal Yes yes...the Bhimbetka site goes back to 200,000 years and many of the artifacts are from around that 30k-40k time period as well. On another note, would you consider the aboriginals of Australia to be a civilization or just hunter-gatherers?

If I understood you correctly, your contention was that the entire world was a deep-freezer and that was basic high-school geography knowledge. Actually, I'm not. What constitutes "towards the end of the Ice age"? 1000 years? 5000 years? 10,000 years? If we go back 5000 years from the 11500 BCE, we are in the vicinity of 16500 BCE. The hypothesis along the lines of the OP puts the Rig Vedic times to around 17500-21000 BCE (as a range, and I've seen variations thereof). Why is it implausible to consider for a moment that such a civilization might have started developing around 17500-21000 BCE and then developed/refined into the Ramayana period around 12000 BCE? Surely 8-5K years is enough time for such development to occur?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/haryanas-bhirrana-oldest-harappan-site-rakhigarhi-asias-largest-asi/articleshow/46926693.cms Frankly, *NOWADAYS* I think it's a waste of human potential to spend time on that game. And it's not just cricket -- most sports are boring. The most boring of them all is American Commercial Breaks FootBall (but I loved Cricket when I used to live in India and actually play it). However, most Indians don't agree with me...and they get to kick British keisters on the cricket pitch (more often nowadays than not)...

That's pretty bang-on!

We can only do the best to help if/when we can. If we can't help. at least we must not meddle. My Sifu told me that we should only help (if we can) those who explicitly ask for help -- unsolicited help (especially in spiritual matters) is not a good idea. I've seen some strange incidences of causal action, very spooky. One time, my friend and I were meditating, when I noticed a woman was attached to him energetically. Now, this friend has had a terrible last decade or so on the professional front. Spiritually, he's gone from strength to strength. I knew a lot about him at that point as he's a close friend, and so when I saw this entity attached, I asked him if we could try to disengage her from him -- felt it was a person from his recent past. He agreed, so we sort of "cut the cord" energetically, if you may (I can't explain how it works, only that it does). Now the friend was struggling to find a job for months at that point. The day after we "cut the cord" (so to speak), there were 4 job interviews that lined up, two of which he pursued, and both bore fruit and he was made offers, of which one he took up. Could it be coincidental? Maybe. But there was a definitive sense of a weight being lifted off him (psychologically it was apparent as he told me that he felt "lighter") and clarity that followed soon after that attachment was severed.

wrong. There are settlements dating back to 7500 BCE who said so? Hasn’t been deciphered yet Yes but their effects still linger, but won’t for too long. India is purging itself of that scourge.

There is sufficient scriptural evidence, and the Sarasvati-Indus valley civilization (SVC) being the late Vedic one shows sufficient archaeological evidence of civilization there as early as 7500 BCE. The motifs and artifacts there are strikingly Vedic (fire altars, yogic posture, pasupathinath seals etc). There is sufficient geological evidence to show that the sarasvati river was real and not a mythological river that the Europeans dismissed away. There is evidence to show that this river started to run dry around 2900 BCE due to plate shifts, hence marking the decline of the SVC not as a defeat of Dravidians but as an exodus to the gangetic plains and further south. Recently scientists have found a massive river bed (now dried up) in the Thar desert dating up to 175000 years back, with several large Paleolithic sites on its banks. The entire Aryan vs Dravidian angle was manufactured by the Europeans to justify their expansionary lust. Genetic data shows a minor genetic separation between North Indian and South Indian populations, but from around 6000 BCE, and not due to the so-called Aryan invasion (or migration for that matter). However this topic is heavily politicized, primarily due to the European indology muddying the water due to British imperialistic ambitions. Which is why, studies such as these (OP) are very important.

An interesting video on the Ice age on Earth -- It is very clear that there were grasslands and tropical rainforests in the Indo-Malay region. The time period that is being proposed in the OP is towards the end of the last ice age, and so not implausible in terms of the development of civilization.

I’m saying that Brahman is pure unconditioned awareness. All sentient beings (and in fact, all things) are appearances within Brahman. This is an article by a philosopher-sage whose trajectory crossed mine for a brief period. It covers most of what we've discussed so far -- https://www.medhajournal.com/the-unity-and-indivisibility-of-the-self-brahman/

IVC is considered as late Rig Vedic

There certainly is scope for the migration theory to play out, but it is not a large scale exodus of central Europeans as has been narrated. Migrations have always happened. Iran (Persia) is considered as being populated with relatives of the Vedic Indians. Of course, that's why there is research ongoing in Indian universities and by Indian scholars/researchers. These things take time. Some challenges in a continuous civilization like India is that a lot of what would be archeological sites actually have people living in them. Take a city like Varanasi for example -- it has been continuously inhabited by people for thousands of years. New buildings rising above older ones.

Most of what is known about Indian history (and pre-history) is on the back of some very dubious translations/narration building done by the likes of Max Muller. The western narrative suffers from a massive confirmation bias simply by accepting the European narratives from the 18th and 19th centuries as valid narratives. For example, take the Aryan Invasion Theory (disproved), and its child, the Aryan Migration theory (also suspect) -- these are still being considered valid in the western Indology circles. By traditional knowledge, I mean internal narratives in the classic texts -- Vedic material, Puranas, Itihaasa, astronomical references therein, the genealogy of royal dynasties, etc. Also, newer research being performed by Indian scientists in the area of archeology, geology, genetics. etc, which are trying to reconcile these traditional narratives with modern research. Not getting cross...but I find this subject very fascinating. While some of these internal claims can be dismissed away as mythology, not all of them can be dismissed, at least not without serious consideration. Here's an interesting find in Central India, with cave paintings ranging from 10,000 BCE onward -- http://www.natgeotraveller.in/madhya-pradesh/rock-of-ages-madhya-pradeshs-ancient-art-galleries-come-alive-in-bhimbetka/ The petroglyphs of Ratnagiri in South indian western coastal region -- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-45559300

I heard this story from my Sifu, who is a great devotee of Satya Sai Baba. Now, now, haters (you know who you are), please don’t go off on a tirade about Sai Baba. Sifu told us about a situation he saw happen right in front of him at Puttaparthi in India. He and some other friends were visiting Baba’s ashram. In the crowd was a mother of a disabled boy, who sat expectantly, over the duration of that visit. Everyday, Baba would come, pick someone from the group and heal them or do something to help them. But he ignored the lady. Finally the lady got really upset and stood up and screamed at Baba, and said, “I’ve been sitting here every day, so many days in a row. Why won’t you help me? I know you can. “ Baba turned to her and told her, “let me show you why I’m not helping your son”. And then he touched her forehead. She fell to the floor weeping. He asked her, “do you think I can heal him now?” Sifu said, the lady told them after a lot of coaxing what she saw. Apparently she saw that boy’s past lives, where he’d been very cruel — killed a lot of people, etc. Baba showed her that if he healed him, he would be prolonging his suffering across lifetimes. Now, skeptics can of course choose to believe that it was an elaborate scam, but knowing my Sifu, I know that he won’t fall for such things. There are numerous other stories about less controversial personalities like Neem Karoli Baba, et al. BTW an interesting quote from Nisargadatta Maharaj on Karma --

I think you are mistaking interest for intent India number 1 is not of concern to me. There has not been a reconciliation of traditional knowledge/narrative with the western narrative. India, on account of being Colonized by European nations, has faced a systematic dismantling of the traditional narrative. Whether it is of interest to non-Indians or not, it is well with the rights of the Indians/people of Indian origin to reclaim their own narrative. I believe this should also be the case with natives of other civilizations who were destroyed by European expansionism. Aborigines in Australia, native north and South Americans, Africans etc.