dwai

Through the pandemic, a few friends and I have been meeting online via google hangout to meditate. Part of our meditation routine is to form a circle and meditate as per the circle meditation taught to us by our teacher(s) in Temple Style Taiji. This occurred a few days ago — for the meditation circle, we generate a column of energy which typically manifests as a column of white light, to which our dantiens are connected. Usually this results in a purification and charging up of all the circle participants (and others we want to share it with, such as ailing friends and family or send the healing to all suffering beings in the world). This time too it started in a similar manner. Only, the column of light in the center took the form of mato tipila (aka Devil’s Tower). The tower seemed to have its own central channel and the energy began spiraling inside it, correspondingly our dantiens became hot and filling up. After a while the central column of the tower replicated itself into as many circle participants we had, and entered each one of us and joined into our respective central channels. I knew that Mato Tipila is considered a Native American sacred site, but didn’t pay particular attention to it. strangely enough, while browsing through YT last evening, I found this —

It was just a very charged up scenario. Inner silence and visual vibratory patterns of double helical energy movement along the central channel, etc.

oh I see. I’ll be happy to check him out and let you know. Will I get a “certified by Anshino” label if I pass? 😜 PS: Okay I saw the video. He does touch upon most of the key “concepts”, though i think he has over-dramatized/over-reacted to experiences — experiences are not the realization. Yes there may or may not be such experiences. I know some who haven’t — these people don’t deal with the energy path — rather, just direct inquiry alone. Personally, I’ve had many — like while walking outside, suddenly everything is nothing but my own Being — the road, the trees, houses, people, cars etc etc. But these are still experiences. Even experience of extreme joy (so much so that tears streaming down my face for long periods of time), and so on have occurred during meditation. I’ve also entered deep cessation (nirvikalpa samādhi some would call it). None of that is the “realization”. They are simply milestones on a path. Not everyone needs to have them. If you don’t, and you are not on a mystic path, one should not feel inadequate or unqualified for it. Based on what I know, the “truth” is not anything earth-shattering, the sky is not going to part and rain “milk and honey or flowers ” or anything like that. It is simply a sudden and permanent shift in your mind. You suddenly realize, that which you were looking for, you already were, always have been and always will be. In Vedanta it is explained this way — “you gain what you already have, and you lose what was never yours anyway”. The truth can not be experienced in the way of subject-object experiences, as it is that which makes experiences possible. The most you can “experience” is your own face in a mirror (if that makes sense). You are Being itself. How can you experience your being? But no amount of words can help anyone else but direct realization of this simple fact. No amount of inner experiences can cause it — it has to happen via inquiry into experience itself. No need for mystical experiences — just seeing your own hand, or a flower, or a leaf is sufficient.

Who is that?

Indeed in Nondual traditions, the clear recognition of one's True Nature is true enlightenment, not in the entry of samādhi states or in the development of siddhis (the 8 types of yogic siddhi - anima, laghima, etc etc). It is a very subtle but very permanent shift that occurs in the mind of the individual -- a clear and unshakeable recognition of one's True Nature, and thereby in the knowledge that the material universe is simply an appearance of names and forms within True Nature itself. Nothing more is to be done, nothing more is needed to be known. That's why we say, True Nature is that, by knowing which, everything is known. By that, it doesn't mean one knows every detail of every event that is occurring in the material world, but rather, an absolute fulfillment ensues, which evaporates the need for any kind of objective knowledge, period. Why this often gets scoffed at is because most of us are addicted to causality and method -- "Do this and that happens, don't do that and this happens". The nature of the mind is to latch onto "things". So given that True Nature is not a "thing", there is nothing for the mind to latch on to. So people either get confused into thinking True Nature is a nihilistic void (nothing), or chase after more experiences (things) assuming that it (True Nature) is nonsense. This is also the reason why many people think there is always something more to be done, something more that needs to happen -- because they don't recognize their True Nature, but are always acting based on the ego/mind, no matter how rarified or transparent it might get. That is due to the veiling, the effect on the scattered (or polluted) mind -- we call it ignorance (avidya/maya) in Hindu traditions. It is said to both exist and not exist at the same time. It has no beginning, but it has an end. When it ends, you realize that it was not a real veiling at all -- just an illusion. Like seeing a mirage in the desert. When you go close and investigate, it turns out there was never any water. Yet, when you step back to the right distance, the mirage appears again.

There are no signs of enlightenment in the way I consider to be enlightenment. Only, one who has the realization can directly recognize it in another. No one walks around with a stamp of "I am enlightened" on their sleeves etc. A good (indirect) way to see it is in the life of the person via close and continuous contact -- how they behave, not just in public gatherings or during seminars, but even in those moments when they are off-guard and caught unaware. Energetic transmissions etc are part of it, but those are secondary imho. Some might never (need to) delve into that side at all. I have had the opportunity to see a few such people, one of whom is my own teacher. Also never for a moment should we ever try to paint all such people with the same brush strokes and in the same color. Enlightened people will often vary in personality, but the truth will shine forth all the same. Here is an Advaita Vedantic/Tantric view of different types of enlightened persons --

That's a good attitude IMHO (saying that without any intention of being patronizing)...

It makes sense when you understand/realize. It won’t until that point. Does that mean I understand/realize and you don’t? Yes. Does it mean I’m saying I’m better than you? No! The ‘not knowing’ is a veiling of our own nature because of the distracted mind. What distracts the mind? Objects, emotions, feelings — in essence the world. How can the mind be made to become undistracted? By practicing meditation/methods etc etc. All the meditation and neigong and neidan in the world will not make you realize your True Nature. What they will do, is allow your mind to become focused and clear again, so your True Nature will become apparent to you. That’s why the wisdom path is called the Direct Path. All words like mine (or perhaps far more authoritative than mine coming from many nondual masters) will do, is point to the truth.

The day you decide to do it.

Typically if you want to refer to the limited "soul", then the right term is jīvātmā. But further on in Advaita understanding, Jiva and Atman are realized as being non-different (brahma satyam jagat mithya, jiva brahmaiva naparah).

Yes it is paradoxically goofy alright It feels like we are not. But then after realization, it dawns on us that there was never a moment we were not already enlightened. But don't take anyone's word for it -- find out yourself

Actually, Atma and Atman are the same word, used varyingly. In the Upanishadic mahavakya from Mandukya Upanishad, you will find the statement 'Ayam Atma Brahma'. This means this "Atman is verily that Brahman". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahāvākyas sarvam hyetad - everything here,[19] the Whole,[18] all this[web 11] hi - (is) certainly brahma - Brahman ayam - this[web 12] ātmā - Atman, self, essence brahma - Brahman sah ayam atman - "this very atman"[19] chatuShpAt - "has four aspects"[19] While translations tend to separate the sentence in separate parts, Olivelle's translation uses various words in adjunct sets of meaning: सर्वं ह्येतद् ब्रह्मा sarvam hyetad brahma - "this brahman is the Whole" ब्रह्मायमात्मा brahma ayam atma - "brahman is ātman" ब्रह्म सोऽयमात्मा brahman sah ayam atman - "brahman is this (very) self"

I'm saying that "the truth light is marred" is a misconception and will be corrected when we recognize ourselves as "the truth light" directly. Everyone is already fully enlightened, only haven't realized that yet. Enlightenment is not a potential. It is our True Nature. I can sit and logically prove to you why you're perspective is based on incomplete logic, but I won't. It is up to each one of us, how we choose to act out in this soap opera called "life". I hope no one is being led astray by anyone else on this forum. After all, its purpose is to share thoughts and ideas. If you want teachings, go find a live teacher.

That's right...Atman is not the Soul. Atman is Pure Objectless Consciousness that powers/illuminates all jivas. Because it is the source of Being, it is called the Self (Atman). It is also known as Brahman (the Expanding Principal).

Why do we need to be any of those personalities? We are already the Truth that shines from within them.

I thought it might not have been accurate -- for me, puritanical implies something along the lines of "holier than thou", "self-righteous", "racked by guilt". Catholic schools in India tend to gravitate towards those things...

I was raised with mixed sensibilities. Part of me was Indian in the truest sense, another part of me was raised to acknowledge the puritanical ways of the English (colonial hangover) via my convent school education. At one point, there was a deep recognition of the "Oneness" underlying the multitude of "things" in the world. And suddenly all the rules didn't make sense anymore. Though I must admit, unpleasant experiences are still unpleasant. Pleasant ones are still pleasant. But they do add flavor. One day I had an epiphany -- pain and pleasure together form bliss. How? Just like drinking a glass of coca cola -- the CO2 bubbles sting the tongue -- pain, the sweetness -- pleasure. Together, a little bit of bliss Life is like that -- some pain, some pleasure. All the pain and the pleasure of the universe, is the bliss of the divine, when considered from the "big picture" view. From an "under the microscope" view, pain is still pain, pleasure is still pleasure.

Indeed. It is a good idea to learn how to separate the rhetoric from the truth. Only experience will give us that ability. Or you can go the distance with any one system and then you will realize the similarities, differences, strengths, weaknesses and limitations of other systems just be reading/hearing about them. Once we have a good grounding/realization in one system, the truth will shine through from others which have it. There are two kinds of people in the world, imho. Those who dissect, and those who assimilate. The dissecting kind, like to find reasons to reject something based on differences. The assimilative kind, like to consolidate and grow from similarities. I’ve been both kinds. Dissecting when I was younger, and gradually became assimilative. It is good to have both, but I’ve seen that the dissecting/dismissive tendency goes away as one matures in their practice.

Chiming in here, just my two cents worth At the transactional level of reality, Deities are beings who exist and operate from the causal layer. Yes they are also archetypes, and exemplify certain aspects/characteristics and gravitate towards certain qualities. Sri Aurobindo, a great 19th-20th century Indian sage had some very interesting ideas about deities. http://niyogibooksindia.com/blog/the-concept-behind-the-hindu-gods-an-analysis-based-on-aurobindos-interpretations-of-the-rig-vedic-gods/

Typically temples are built by patrons (historically nobility and royalty) — and patrons usually have money. They live in neighborhoods where there is money. Ergo, temples usually are built in well-to-do neighborhoods.

@freeform erudite as always

I think the yogic term for thought is quite apropos — “chitta vritti” — modification in the mind. Any modification of the mind is essentially a thought — be it a distinct object, or feeling or even emotion. They are different only in the part of the inner-faculties being affected (mind-stream, intellect, ego or impression/memory bank). They are combinations of the one or more of these in the mind-stream.

Yes I liked the article. What I understood from it is as follows — True xing is pure awareness Or chaitanyam, false xing is what we call chidābhāsa (or reflected consciousness). False xing is the mind which is reflected light of awareness. With the ming part, I think the correlation is in terms of chit/prana kundalini as true ming, while the panchavayu (five types of prana) can be likened to the false ming (acquired). Again, cosmologically, there are certainly differences between these traditions — but cosmology is after the fact of the “real thing”, imho.

Hi Michael, I’m not triggered by you at all. I saw what I felt was inaccurate so pointed it out. If you read the document linked in the OP, he clearly outlines xing as true nature. Xing is apparently classified into two, as is Ming. The heavenly Xing and the acquired xing. Similarly with ming - one is the qi of Dao and the other is inherited. He further classifies the heavenly xing and the qi of dao as the same as original nature. best, dwai

The entirety of Vedanta (Jnana Yoga) and Kashimir Shaivism's Sambhavopaya works on awareness alone and in simple recognition of one's true nature (Xing). All the other energy really has to deal with the other aspects of "yoga". Is Kundalini pre-heaven or Post-heaven? Which is the one you consider? Prana Kundalini or Chit Kundalini? When you work with the higher chakras (outside the body), is that pre-heaven or post-heaven? That might be a ludicrous topic to consider from a Hindu/yogic system, as Yoga/Tantra doesn't really differentiate in pre-heaven/post-heaven manner. There is Awareness, and it's activity - Energy. Under limitation, it appears to be individual mind and energy, once limitation has been removed, it is realized as being none other than awareness and its action alone. Instead of getting caught up in the weeds of Pre-heaven/post-heaven methods, if we look at what is being pointed to, then I think we've got a better chance of grasping the 'truth'.