dwai

Not interested in arguing over this, you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. ☮️ On the other hand, why don’t you watch the video? It’s really cool

Those interested in a discussion about Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta should watch this —

Don’t buy into rhetoric irrespective of which side it comes from. This kind of stuff (X is only a lower stage in our tradition) is a sign of unripe practitioners. Those who told you that moksha is “just blissful clarity shamatha state” probably don’t have experiential knowledge of either Hindu or even Buddhist meditation. Here’s an article I wrote about what Atman is, maybe it’ll help - https://www.medhajournal.com/most-people-misunderstand-what-atman-means/ Here’s another I wrote to show how Buddhist and Vedantic models map to each other — https://www.medhajournal.com/consciousness-according-to-zen-buddhism-and-how-it-relates-to-advaita-vedanta/

Where do all phenomena come from?

where does post-natal Qi come from?

Through the subject-object duality primarily

I’ve read some references to development of the Hara (lower Dantien) in zen Buddhist literature. There is a very good book on zen by Roshi Philip Kapleau (Dawn of Zen it the West) where he refers to the hara. https://books.google.com/books?id=dhDQAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT121&lpg=PT121&dq=roshi+philip+kapleau+hara+development&source=bl&ots=sJ4pn1wRtJ&sig=ACfU3U3pI5APJPbY-5Lq1n-oasn9BaChEQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFzrG7nb7qAhVCU80KHZUdC1IQ6AEwA3oECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=roshi philip kapleau hara development&f=true

I’m not sure I understand what you meant. For example, what is a “substance of yinshen”? My question was around whether there really are two (as in one of the bodily vs another of Dao), or is one (bodily) a manifestation of that of the other (that of the Dao)?

When I say method, I mean tradition/lineage. think I answered this already above What is “Low virtue”? I don’t consider “de” to be virtue in the sense of “ethics”. De is a ‘copy’ of the dao in each and every one of us. It is hidden by the modifications of our mind. Different people might be in different phases of the continuum based on how scattered and/or polluted their minds are. The ‘method’ when done diligently and sincerely will bear fruit. Mainly requirements are patience, perseverance and consistency. P.S. My Sifu says to us all the time (paraphrasing here) — “you need to have 100% faith and confidence in your own abilities and the system. If you have even .1% doubts, you are self-sabotaging”.

It is not a linear process. And it varies with the individual based on their karmic influences. As far as I understand it, the process is simple and direct. Laying the foundations will concentrate and purify the qi. Qi and mind are interdependent. Concentrate one, and the other will concentrate. Purify one and the other will purify. In the internal alchemical traditions (imho), the path is to work with the (body and) energy (qi); to purify and concentrate it. But the actual goal is to purify and concentrate the mind. When the mind is sufficiently clear and purified, a direct apperception of our true nature is possible. It requires external knowledge (likely in the form of a teacher), but once this knowledge is assimilated, result is realization of our true nature. An interesting outcome of this process, comes from the realization that all phenomena are manifestation of the true nature alone. This opens up the universal nature of energy to the ‘individual’. A skeptical person might say, “yeah that’s all fine and reasonably simple in the domain of intellectual knowing, but is it that easy to realize it?” That is dependent on our karma (and to the religious minded, on the grace of G_d). The “Truth” is simple and direct. The methods are complex. Often people get lost in the weeds of methods, and miss the fact that methods are fingers pointing to the proverbial moon. Just one method is sufficient (any out of the many), there is no need to amass 1000s.

I find this kind of reductionism amusing. And starry-eyed fan-people gobble this up with great gusto...and the outcome is anyone’s guess. For example, ‘Hinduism’ is not looking to ‘dissolve Dantien’ — while young damo might have meant something specific with it, on the face of it, it sounds childish. In fact there are Hindu yogic/tantric traditions which match the neidan stuff in great detail and then some.

Are there really “two” elixirs though?

I wouldn’t use the word “bias”, more like “preference”. Why? Because the dualistic model is useful to a point. Beyond which it becomes a hurdle and a prison. The ‘ultimate truth’ is quite liberating (that’s why it’s called liberation or freedom). For example, what need does water have for ice or steam? Whatever happens will happen. Water remains unaffected and water through and through whether in solid, liquid or gaseous state. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s no value in this kind of stuff. I’m saying that the value is relative. It might not be applicable to many here, but in the spirit of sharing freely, I’m sharing the “big picture” (what I consider as such) view.

Not in it’s core. Both are forms of water Haha what’s funny is, I was going to use that same analogy to explain why I don’t consider any of these “things” (Jing/Qi/shen/light) to be ultimately different. They are all modifications of awareness (pure consciousness).

And light is different from consciousness?

If so, then what is it made up of?

I don’t see any difference between the “pill” and Jing/Qi/shen either. In fact, I am of the opinion that going the “pill” way is an exercise which builds complexity upon complexity. But maybe that complexity is needed by some people. Not everyone does. In fact it goes back to the long running debate around “effort” vs “no-effort” too.

I don’t consider jing/qi/shen to be inherently different ‘things’

The process of fortification and restoration are not separate. That which fortifies also will replenish. And replenishment only happens to the degree the system can hold it. A leaky pot will keep leaking until it is sealed, irrespective of how much water you fill in it. With that in mind, Up to a certain extent, ‘replenishment’ is simply improving the efficiency of the system so that less depletion occurs. But a grander ‘replenishment’ occurs when universal energy becomes available to us. And imho, the advanced level work is beyond dantiens etc, it is in the realm of consciousness and mind. But then, consciousness and energy are not separate “things” anymore...

If you fill water in a pond that is low in water, is that the same as creating a pond? Would you call cleaning the water of said pond also creating a pond? Maybe this will help understand my perspective and what I’ve been taught — We are all born with ‘the field and some elixir’. This decays with time and as we age, resulting in our physical death. One’s ‘life energy’ (aka elixir) cannot be replenished; it is finite as it exists in “normal” people and will decay. The cultivation then is about slowing down the decay, and purifying all that blocks this life energy, and once we have unfiltered access to it, it can power us to tap into the universal aspect of that life energy, at which point the cultivator doesn’t use their own ‘personal energy’ anymore, but rather can directly access and use the universal energy (dao’s energy). We each carry a copy of the Dao within us, which is called our “De”. This is called the “little dao”. We first access this little dao and then it connects us with the big dao. De is not some conceptual virtue, but our own life energy. So, from that perspective dantiens exist and we can only clean up and purify them and access our little dao (De). Then it will take us to the big Dao.

I know that’s your opinion. I don’t agree with you. In my tradition, Dantiens exist, and all we do is make them more coherent (sort of like focusing light into a laser beam). Yes the teacher can and sometimes does kickstart the ‘flame’ so the student can make it into a functional fire. As with a few other topics, we have to agree to disagree on this.

Some folks seem to think dantiens don’t exist and need to be made. In my experience they exist and don’t need to be made. Similar with many fellow students who share my lineage.

I've not used their techniques or devices, but our traditional practice is similar. We get to know whether we are in coherence or not by how it feels ... Interesting point about 6 breaths a minute. If we're doing qigong breathing, especially in standing meditation, the breathing slows down to less than 6 per minutes, sometimes even 2-3 breaths per minute.

Yes, it starts with the Heart chakra, but eventually engulfs us entirely.