dwai

That's okay...seems like you've taken a small sample size and developed your mental model of what Taiji does or doesn't do. I know several who can not only transmit all that you attribute to "Qi transmission" but also go beyond to other forms of transmission (mind, awareness, etc) as well as other forms of transformation at a spiritual level.

That is the classical model -- Causal body of Self in Satvic form is Ishwara. The casual body of Self in Tamasic form is individual causal bodies.

Actually that is a huge misunderstanding of taiji development. The tradition of Taiji I train in covers far more than the 'quan'. It involves Shen Gong, Dao Gong, and goes beyond simply "Muscular elasticity".

Yes. P.S.Among other things

Actually it IS the norm in Taiji. Different teachers might use different words though (also depends on different stages of development as well). The thing is, everything is essentially a mental model when it boils down to the brass tacks. Individuals (or groups of individuals) develop mental models to transmit knowledge to each other.

Because you don't use your own "qi" anymore at this level. There is plenty to use 'outside'. In the case of martial encounters, your opponent's field, or at a deeper level there's really no separation of self and other, only qi. Then it's like making a wave in a pool. If you are a 100 foot giant in a pool, waving your hand will send waves through the pool and affect those in it. Then it becomes really woo woo...

I'm not looking to argue with you, so best if we agree to disagree and move on, yes?

It's not just semantics imho. Qi needs to be transformed into jin. So it's not simply a case of emitting Qi. Jin has to be given a property before it is transmitted (which is where then yi comes into play).

That’s your prerogative. We’re all entitled to opinions I train in a system that teaches this and is effective. So I’ll stick with it.

Don't get me wrong. I've experienced directly the "electric" transmission, etc. But that is still considered Jin in our system. Not Qi per se. We can feel our own Qi but not jin, and others can feel our jin, but not qi.

Jin is transformed Qi. So Qi in its natural state is not emitted. The way I understand it is, Qi is like gasoline. Just like when Gasoline is burnt, power is generated and makes a vehicle move, similarly when Qi is 'burnt', Jin is generated, which is then applied. Yes...indeed at higher levels, one's own Qi is not expended at all.

It’s a fallacy in stating that “Qi” is emitted. No Qi isn’t emitted, Jin is.

Why is it extraordinary? It only seems extraordinary because you think it is something elusive and secret. For me it’s not hearsay at all, just first hand knowledge...Direct experience.

Using the mind means working with consciousness (not necessarily Buddhism only - my path is Advaita Vedanta). Working with energy - tantric path, neigong, etc. Working with body — yoga etc. They’re not exclusive to each other but more about where one has to begin. Think of them like rungs of a ladder. Lowest rung is body, then energy and then consciousness. And it’s not always a linear journey too. Sometimes we have to step back from higher rungs to lower rungs, but sometimes we don’t

One is the path of knowledge — using the mind. The other is the path of energy and the third is the path of the body.

In Temple style Tai Chi, there is a meditation called "mother meditation". This meditation is aimed at helping the practitioner develop the ability to clearly separate substantial and insubstantial (along with other significant benefits). The meditation is modeled after the concept of a Mother and her child going somewhere (I was told 'going to the market'). Sometimes the child follows the mother and other times, the mother 'drives' the child. Does anyone know of similar practices? If so, please do share

Don’t know about cloudhands, but I know many. And they aren’t walking-talking bug zappers either It is ridiculous how some will try to make this process sound more mysterious and more difficult than it really is. Just do the right practice, with the right attitude and let go of the desire to find this or attain that, and it’ll be yours for the taking. These things are like a fistful of sand, the harder you try to grasp it, the quicker it will fall out of your grip.

I’m saying that depending on your objective you may or may not require neigong//neidan etc. There are 3 categories of paths by following which one can create the conditions conducive to liberation/enlightenment (if that is your goal). Of them, the only direct way is the one in which one works with the mind/consciousness. All others will only help still the body and mind so one may begin to work with their consciousness. But the only way to attain liberation is through the mind. Without working with the mind (and therefore consciousness) liberation is not possible. And the way to work with the mind is to still the mind, focus it. Like how in a tranquil river you can see the bottom, but in a turbulent river you cannot, similarly with the mind. The “bottom” of the mind is our true nature. And knowing it directly is the only way to liberation. In the case of the mind, the sources of turbulence often lie in the body and energetic system (manifesting as thoughts, emotions, feelings). Hence many people need to work with the body and energetic system to calm them down, discipline them enough to produce a tranquil mind.

I took up taijiquan because I found sitting down and meditating for a long time difficult when I started down this path about 20 years back. I was a martial artist and going from hard style karate to taijiquan seemed like the right thing to do. intially I was just curious, and when I started learning yang style, after about a month of practice and having learnt the entire 24-form set, I started feeling tangible results. I’d sweat profusely even though it wasn’t a heavy cardio workout. And then I’d feel energy in my limbs and the whole body. Little by little it felt like my whole body was being reconnected. My mind became more tranquil and I was able to sit and meditate for longer periods of time without getting distracted. I don’t consider finding the Dantien to be very critical to meditation. Depends on your path. If you take the path of knowledge and meditation and your mind is naturally tranquil and still, you don’t need to do dantiens, meridians etc etc. if you are like most people in the world today with propensity towards dynamic activity etc, you might find the energy path more suitable. So then you need to work on energetic cultivation etc, until your mind has stilled enough to allow meditation to happen. It depends on the path that’s suitable for the seeker. It is not necessary to find meridians and dantiens if your path doesn’t need it. If it does, then you do. I don’t believe that dantiens need to be formed — everyone has them. But dantiens need to be developed, sealed etc if you want to explore the energy path.

It was deep relaxation and a temporary disappearance of “me”. Also at that point I was about 5-6 months into practicing yang style taijiquan too (was self-taught at that point). I knew the term but didn’t know what it meant (ie very little technical knowledge). So I did know there was such a thing, but didn’t really know what to look for, or that people actually spend time looking for it. I know for a fact now that it happened to me because I was enjoying the process and the environment, instead of focusing on any particular thing. Relaxation in taiji is a result of the process of giving up, of emptying — no acquiring. A couple of years later, when I formally became a student of my first teacher, he told me — the harder you try to “attain” experiences in taiji the more elusive they’ll become. It is even worse if you had an experience one time, and then exert effort to “recreate” that — it won’t come back until you give up trying. I’ve found this to be 100% accurate.

For me, I first became aware of it when I was doing a taijiquan form in the park, gazing into the horizon. It was a Smokey-swirling sensation that started in the lower abdomen, about 2 inches below the navel and in the center. But it wasn’t a fixed location, it moved around, like a spiraling dust devil one may see in nature. In retrospect, I wasn’t looking for it, but simply practicing a form with as much sincerity as I could, enjoying the sunset and the riot of colors in the horizon at the same time.

I know a few from my own personal and regular/frequent interactions...and they are unknown individuals, who don't seek publicity, nor can someone without the proper skill even fathom the depth of their skill. My own Master is one, and several of his students are at varying levels of on this spectrum. My Master's teacher is too. But we don't call it "peng" per se. in our tradition, peng is the quality of expansion/like a ball expanding. There are specific things we have to train in order for this to happen, such as learning how to support & maintain the 8 directions, etc. What I'm referring to is the stage beyond peng. I think among the current crop of 'famous' teachers the only one who clearly has it is Mark Rasmus.

And not everyone's karma requires for them to be champion spiritual triathletes (or non-spiritual ones either, for that matter). Considering Dharma without Karma is missing half the picture. It is due to Karma that some people barely have to spend any time and "boom!" they get it. While others, maybe even their own teachers have had to toil for decades on end. The problem arises when we have the same yardstick with which to measure all and sundry. Not only is it unnecessary, but it is also incorrect to do so. Because of the mythology surrounding spiritual attainments, sometimes, when there is a genuine awakening, doubt will later creep in and sully it, especially in the unprepared mind, because "Surely, it can't be that easy?!?" Yes! This is called Pratyaksha pramāna in Yogic parlance -- direct apperception.

A very important point needs to be made (albeit whether it will make sense or not, will depend). Who gets enlightened? And what does enlightenment really mean? Is it some supranormal state? Or is it simply a realization of "the real nature" (Self/non-Self whatever you want to call it). Does the limited being who identifies with the mind-body-personality get enlightened? Or is enlightenment a liberation from being limited by that mind-body-personality identification? Does an enlightened being not feel pain and pleasure? That'll make them an automaton, not enlightened, imho. No, they continue to feel pain/pleasure etc just as a normal person would so long as they continue to have a body-mind. What is gone is the aversion and clinging. That is liberation -- not being bound within and restricted by the prison of personality and identity, with the mind as the jailor as well as the inmate, that we have created for ourselves.

What kind of transformation of the “body” is sufficient? If you look at the Buddha’s own life, you’ll see that he only attained enlightenment AFTER discarding extremes (which ranged from extreme starvation, exposure to elements etc etc). Body preparation is only a basic requirement because our minds cannot be focused or steady if the body is not stable. We need to train our bodies to become stable for meditation. There is no need to do anything beyond a handful of asanas and pranayama to train the body to be stable and set the stage for deep meditation. There is no need for fancy and elaborate body rituals beyond that, if enlightenment is the goal. In fact, over obsession with the body is a severe impediment to enlightenment The knowledge that arises after samādhi has been attained, is a confirmation of the knowledge that is transmitted by the teaching (dharma). It’s like, you’ve been given a map to the Niagara Falls and only after you reach Niagara Falls you know what it really is like...