dwai

Do you find a need to reconcile your Daoist practice with your Jewish one? Or do they more or less blend into one another?

It is important to understand what embody means. How can ice embody water any more than it already does? Can a wave embody the ocean to it's fullest potential. Yeah the thing with analogies is that we can't stretch them beyond a certain point -- if we do, silliness ensues. The wood-door analogy served the purpose it was intended to serve. The body will be resolved when its karma is completed. Liberation is not of the body-mind unit. Liberation is from the body-mind unit. That is enlightenment -- the body-mind unit doesn't become enlightened -- enlightenment is a realization of its True Nature. I bring back the dreaded Door which thought all this time that it was a door, apart from the wood. But then it realizes that it has always been wood. Only wood in a specific name, form and function. Who seeks "immortality"? Ask yourself that question -- the answer will become evident. Where does this "rainbow body" go? How does one know 'non-existence'? These are not rhetorical questions... Yes...the jivanamuktas (Liberated while in a physical body) naturally have special abilities. Not everyone has the same ones. Many of these manifest due to the predilections of the body-mind unit (karmic tendencies, etc). Here liberation means breaking the cycle of birth and death. Not by becoming a perpetual spirit being (which is a prison too). All such perpetual spirit beings have their own karma and have to still come back to what is called a karma bhumi to exhaust the karma to become fully liberated. So long as there remains an identification with a story (however exalted it might be), it is not true enlightenment or liberation. Lao Tzu's Daodejing is the highest level of Daoism there is. It is not a daoist teaching -- it is from Vedanta. This xianhood is a prison of its own (I've noted this above). It is a golden prison for sure. And might provide a billion years of contentment. But what then? Actually, it is useful for those who are ready. Not many are...

Body-mind is name, form and function. It is an appearance. Countless come and go, like waves in an ocean. True Nature/Awareness is the ‘substance’ which body-mind is made of. So consider body-mind as apart from True nature — duality. Consider body-mind not apart from True nature — nonduality. And if this body-mind is True nature /Awareness, all body-minds too are True nature/Awareness. Why? For those who don’t know yet, it is a mystery to be solved. Only way to know is to figure it out.

I only laugh because I found your "whack on the head" point amusing I think there a very subtle perspective nuance that I'm not able to get across in words. True nature doesn't need embodiment. The subtlety of view is here -- The body-mind unit cannot embody true nature, anymore than a door can embody wood. Just as the door is through and through wood, the body-mind is through and through 'True Nature' (though I prefer to use the term Awareness). The 'realization' therefore is, simply a shift of perspective. And it is permanent. No special powers are needed or required -- just our everyday experiences are sufficient I'm saying there is no need to. Just realizing what we truly are, is sufficient. All other "activity" happens in the realm of duality/Maya. I'm saying it doesn't need to be physical at all. It is simply a permanent shift in perspective. The wood doesn't need to do anything to the door for it to become wood. The door (bare with me this dumb example) isn't separate from wood. The door simply needs to recognize (if doors could realize things) that is wood through and through. Knowing this, the need to separate "Self" and "other" goes away. To bring in a bit of Vedantic thought in this discussion (as you know, I'm a mutt that way) -- Every phenomenon has five aspects. Name and form are the ones that the mind knows and body interacts with. The other three are Being, Illumination and Love. Each and every aspect of the phenomenal world only has name and form because of this Being (Existence), Illumination (Awareness) and Love (Bliss). What does that mean? Even though from a utilitarian perspective, Names and forms appear and disappear, and have function, their True Nature is Being, Awareness and Bliss/love. This is available to us every where, all the time. When true awakening occurs, this (B/A/L) is constantly recognized. Nothing more is needed to be proven or shown. Yes, maybe to shake a student out of spiritual slumber, sometimes teachers might invoke a "whack in the head" (show of power etc) -- but it depends on the student and the teacher. There are teachers who merely look at the student and awaken them (Ramana Maharshi being one such famous sage). Then they are not self-realized. What purpose does the Self have to manipulate anything or anyone? All is the Self. Sure...the letting go might happen in layers, all at once. We call it vāsana-kshaya or erosion of karmic patterns. To go into why these things happen (why after awakening one might succumb to these behaviors for a while) is dependent on whether these patterns erode suddenly or little by little. But one cannot really go back to their old ways entirely, if they've truly awakened. But one cannot rest on their "laurels" either, so to speak. My master meditates 8-10 hours a day (and he's been at it for about 50 years now) even though he doesn't need to. He prays for the well being of people, animals who are suffering and so on. When he's not doing that, he is serving his family, checking on his students, and so on. That is one way. Another way is to simply serve one's family and loved ones, community selflessly -- at the soup kitchen, temples, churches, etc. That is another way. The other is to simply retire to a hermitage. Some others, simply go back to their old lives -- live their lives and act as shining beacons of light simply by being themselves. I'm sorry you felt that way about the laughing emoji. If you and I were sitting across from each other, I'd still laugh, and so would you -- but not at each other. I explained the reason for my laughing reaction -- "whack in the head" Of course. I'm loving it

About "Weather magick" -- Yes I know of one teacher in my lineage who encouraged his students to practice affecting weather. Unfortunately he is no more in this world -- but from what I've heard, he was legit.

Talk about missing the point. Yeah,. Whack on the head might hurt, but that doesn’t mean the primacy of consciousness over matter ceases to be. There still needs be a consciousness to both produce the ‘whack’ and ‘receive’ It. depends on the perspective from whence ‘you’ operate. If you operate as a jumble of matter which manifests consciousness (mind), then yes. Usually after one realizes one’s true Nature, they don’t operate from that Old vantage point anymore. yeah, but the reason is not what you think it is. Matter is subject to consciousness — that’s why it happens. It all comes down to consciousness/awareness and the unveiling of the mind. it’s a two way street. Many don’t go beyond siddhis due to being stuck on the Siddhis. not haughty. It’s your mind that presumes the haughtiness, because you’re so caught up on your perspective. It is an observation - a statement of fact. There are yogis and sages in India today who can not only do what you’re saying, but also other feats powered by their siddhis. It has nothing to do with Self-realization. They all operate within the realm of Maya (veiling).

They come from the same source. I'm suggesting that there is more mystery built into these than is necessary. The path to enlightenment is via the purification of the mind. And no one can, or should tell you that you can't become enlightened -- all you need to do is take sincere steps towards it. Whether we reach it in one lifetime or many is not up to us. The grace of God or Guru is sufficient to lift us out of complete darkness -- but we have to take the initial steps. That is simply not necessary (or compulsory).

Though you directed the question to freeform, let me chime in Yes, Karma can result in issues with the physical body. It can even result in issues with the mind. But there are other ways to circumvent these problems. You don't HAVE TO DO Qigong/Neigong to purify your mind. There are other ways -- such as mantra meditation and such. In the Indic/Vedantic tradition there are three main issues in the realization of the Truth. They are as follows -- Chitta vikśepa -- Scattering of the mind. For that you do meditation practice. Breath work. Chitta Mala -- Impurities of the mind. Some come karmically, some come as a result of the food we eat, the environment we expose ourselves to. To resolve this -- do selfless service. Chitta Avarana -- Veiling of the mind. This is the primary cause for someone to not recognize their True nature. In order to address these, first start working on 1 & 2. And then start learning from a Master (in-person is best, but other media can work as well -- video lectures, books, etc). As you learn, spend time in contemplation and eventually meditation. More the mind is purified, and ability to focus increases, the more the knowledge will start to "click". And it becomes a geometrically progressing system -- progress will accelerate as you spend time in it. 1 & 2 are always preparatory stages. But they needn't necessarily be sequential. There are overlaps with 3. Not at all -- it is an experiential fact. When you enter samadhi, the breath will stop on its own. The breath moves with the movement of the mind. It is not unnatural to go for extended periods of time without breathing. And no, you don't die. When it first happened to me, I went several minutes without breathing, without mind. And then the mind kicked in, and panicked at how long it had been since I last took a breath. And then it reactivated along with the breath. I put Qigong, pranayama etc under the methods of fixing problem #1 I've listed above. Whether they are needed or not, depends on the individual practitioner. There are no 'one-size-fits-all'. PS. One might wonder, "All that is about the mind. What about the body?" The answer may be, "Fix the mind and the body won't bother you anymore." But it might also be, "Fix the body first, and the mind will become more manageable." Mostly, it they are mutually complementary. Maintain healthy habits for both mind and body. Take the medication that is prescribed to make the body comfortable. Don't take so much that the mind gets clouded. Even if the mind is clouded due to medication, you can still reduce the impact of the mind by following steps 1 & 2. Last and most direct, and most powerful step (bonus #4) -- Pray sincerely for help to your deity of choice (provided it is not science).

'Substance' is part of the illusion too. But nonetheless, I think we'll end up talking past each other beyond this point. I appreciate your perspective, and respect the background/context it comes from. This is after all, a meaningful discourse, and not a pointless one at that. Heaven and Earth too are manifestations of that One Awareness. To some these might just be words...for those who've tasted from the well, it is something else. I am -- and grateful for it. It is way beyond Ming. But he doesn't discriminate between xing and ming. He transmits the knowledge directly. I should clarify here that I don't mean to put down Ming cultivation or methods per se. If I come across as dismissive, that is not my intent -- I've seen too many people struggle with methods, techniques, elaborate practices -- that is their journey and their karma. But it helps if someone calls it out from time to time -- "The truth is hiding in plain sight...right within your heart!" (even if they don't recognize/understand what is being said at that juncture).

It is an advanced text. In older times, Ming cultivation was not such a big deal — people naturally had more internal power, because of their lifestyle. Even today, if you go to a ‘real’ rural area in Asia, the people there naturally have more internal power than their urban counterparts. The internal power degenerates and degrades when the mind is used more in a scattered manner. The more scattered the mind, the more Qi is lost. Urban (modern) people tend to have this problem more than rural (less modern). That’s why when you’re cultivating Ming, you quieten your mind, make it single pointed and enter emptiness (samādhi). I think this is backward — but it’s your way, so if it sails your boat, more power to you Ooh! Who is that?

I'd love to meet your teacher. Vedic thought is not a predilection -- it is my heritage in this human form. All spiritual traditions point at the truth. It is our own limitation which makes us miss the proverbial moon (Truth) for the finger (method). Before you've tasted ice-cream, reading about it won't help knowing. After you've tasted ice-cream, if you hear someone talking about it, it will make perfect sense. Typically the kind of knowledge that is shared in the vedic/indic context is for people who are qualified for the knowledge -- which implies having a certain purification of the mind. But there is a cross-over across traditions after a certain point -- and that point is when one is able to discern between phenomena and the subject. Ice-cream tasters will be able to relate to ice-cream discussions irrespective of which cultural context they come from. This really is not about me or you being right. It is about whether someone will gain something valuable from such discussions (given the egalitarian model of the internet). So, whatever I share, if someone can benefit from it -- happy for it. For those who can't understand it -- maybe it'll make sense in the future. I agree. Not at all. I understand the Daoist path quite well. My commentary reflects more on my observation of "modern" daoists, more than Daoism itself. I think Daoism in the Lao Tzu vein, is a pure non-dual teaching -- very direct, very powerful (and most don't understand it because of their unpreparedness). For me, the highest Daoist classic is the Daodejing. To even begin to understand it, one needs to work with Xing. I don't think you know much about Vedic thought. It is not a poetic way to point to the truth - there is a direct transmission -- but like the daodejing, you need to have a certain level of clarity and purification of the mind to understand them.

The mind and ego are addicted to complexity. More complex, the more the ego loves it. Challenges to overcome, victories to attain. The problem with this is an assumption that there is a "beyond". There is no "beyond". That is a confabulation of the ego-mind. The scenery is the phenomena that one gets attracted to. Powers and siddhis one develops -- nothing but parlor tricks in the grand scheme of things. Samsara is Nirvana. Nirvana is Samsara. Form is void. Void is form. It is very apparent, but just reading words doesn't work -- seems like riddle. It is not. It literally is what is stated. Knowing this directly is all there is -- and it can only be realized by giving up, not acquiring more and more techniques, methods, powers etc.

Since I’m a simpleton, I say — Ming cultivation trains the mind to become ‘Clean’ and one-pointed (mind and Qi are related). Once the mind becomes sufficiently purified and focused, real work with consciousness can begin (Xing). This is called Self-inquiry in the Indic traditions.

Actually Buddha nature is everyone’s true nature. There is no “within and without”. It’s like how a door is through and through wood, and it is not apart from the wood. Or ice is nothing but water. There can never be ice apart from water.

I have it from a very reliable source that Chabad lubavitch school/sect of Judaism is very open to the mystical side, as well as is the only Jewish sect that acknowledges reincarnation etc.

Indeed.

TBH I find the Jewish religion to be least troublesome in the Abrahamic world. It is not an expansionist religion and while insular, there is a lot of depth to it metaphysically. The other two on the other hand, have wreaked much havoc through the ages, since they got politically weaponized. Their onslaught is still ongoing in places like India.

Hindus don't worship Idols. They worship Murthis. There is a huge difference -- when we consecrate a deity in a murthi, it is given life, literally via the ritual of consecration. The murthi becomes the living personification of the deity. This is an article written by a highly respected practitioner scholar friend whom I've known personally for almost two decades now. It does a very good job of explaining the process. https://www.medhajournal.com/how-does-the-prana-prathistha-ritual-convert-a-lifeless-ritual-into-a-living-murthi/ The problem with non-dharmic traditions is that they don't do their homework and build strawman arguments to prove the 'greatness' of their tradition to themselves. It is not only intellectually dishonest, but also intellectually deficient. Dharmic traditions don't blindly follow any book -- ours is a lived, and experiential tradition. That said, I've had very good experiences with rabbis from the Kaballah tradition. Apparently there is an entire group of rabbis whose job is to research and understand the various traditions of the world. They are not rabid doctrinaires, but erudite and intelligent practitioner-scholars. In my discussions with one such rabbi, who heads such a group in Israel, the only difference was that they (jewish tradition) don't consider the ability to merge fully with God or Self-realization per the Non-dual hindu traditions to be possible. They agree that we must all definitely be part of God, but we can never understand God/deny the God-nature of each sentient being (which is what Nondual hindus will say). In that sense, they are closer to the qualified nondualists/dualists of Hindu tradition.

You can start off on some good online training via The Taichi Tao Center or Adam Mizner's school.

I've had situations where I've had internal scents manifest during taichi practice. There was a period of time with the smell of cannabis being smoked, though no one around me had lit up. It turns out that someone was 'checking' me out (a meditator in a Himalayan cave) -- and it seems like he was smoking cannabis. There are specific smells that manifest when someone connects with me which help me recognize them. With my master it is the smell of the incense he burns in his prayer room. With some other friends its a distinct (not unpleasant) odors, but nothing I can pin a label with, yet I know them by the combination of tone and scent. I'd recommend reading this book. The author covers the topic of scent with shared presence -- https://www.amazon.com/Mystic-Default-James-Swartz-ebook/dp/B07NJYTVH5/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Thanks for sharing. BTW, iinm, CMC was Cheng Man Ching (not Chen).

The ritualism is good too. I didn’t mean to trivialize it. Anyone who sees Hindu religious rituals will know how much emphasis there is on ritual. There is an entire formal system of practice with fire rituals combined with mantra practice and is actually the oldest form of Hindu practice (done even to this day).

The heart is the key. If this doesn’t awaken, one can’t progress imho. Don’t know about levels. I’ve gone through the cymbals, flute, bells, thunder etc much before the current tone happened . That happened when I first started pranayama some 20 years ago. We just have to remember that these too are phenomena. They will help us in some ways, but are not the end by any stretch of the imagination.

I feel sad for the state of affairs off late. Maybe I’m a bit more sensitive this year — energetic shifts have been unfolding since November 2019. That aside, there is a very polarizing power approaching us (has been for many years (15+) now — per my Master) — makes us want to ‘shore up the defenses and circle the wagons’ in a us vs them construct. Maybe things need to be worked through, maybe they don’t. Some wounds need to be cleaned before they can heal, some only get worse by being agitated. May each of us have the wisdom to discern and work in the right way. I can only share my thoughts on the escalating animosity on the forum — it is not good, not healthy and especially if it becomes a long drawn and protracted one.