Emelgee

I disagree with the topic "Normals just don't care..." Actually, I particularly take issue with the term "Normals" which I have seen in a couple of posts lately. It is kind of silly really. Every person is unique, complex and full of their own personal longings and confusions, joys and love, anger and hurt and each person wrestles with these (until, with age, one realises there is no point to the wrestling) and each person is trying to pick their path to achieve some contentment or happiness or just "basic" peace of mind. When you categorise people for any purpose, you miss so much about every person; you miss their nuances; you miss their quirky sense of humour; you miss their kindness. Frankly, you just miss people entirely. And, to the other issue of the original post: If your friends think some of the things you know or share with them is bullshit, why do you care? What difference does it make to you whether this person believes what you believe or not?

Hey Sean - well, sometimes my offhandedness can cause tension that I don't intend I am not always a big fan of expaining myself...a bit of impatience on my part, I suppose... But the above post, along with the earlier excerpt I quoted, encapsulate exactly how I feel about relationships. I mean, different strokes for different folks, but I have generally gone out with guys who have had a love of their own freedom, which works for me because I have that same need for personal time and space. And that ties into my "love me - but don't love me too much" quip. I want to be loved, guided, respected and looked after (sometimes) but I don't want a man not doing something he really wants to do, just because of me. Love is wonderful, relationships (even when difficult) are amazing things to be a part of. I also feel that it is important to have a perspective on it, too. But, I am a fairly independent soul and probably the biggest thing I can learn is to accept interdependency...but, that is a WHOLE other topic!! Emelgee

Ummm...I don' t agree that the US is "probably the greatest" country ever...Big, loud, full of money and loaded up with power doesn't equal a great country. But maybe you just answered your original question - the belief that America is the greatest country ever can create a sort of moral laxity that can explain away many very questionable political decisions. Cam, I completely accept a person's patriotism, I am a patriotic Australian but that certainly doesn't mean that I shut my eyes to what is going on and say that in 10 years this had to happen so that things could get better. The world is already my own and I have already said exactly what I think of the situation. Realistically, there isn't too much more I can do other than to promote open and honest discussion and transmission of ideas. The chances of my voting in a US election are pretty slim! I also completely understand how the political climate is changing and Bush is not regarded as highly as he was previously. The frightening aspect of this, in my view, is that globally Bush hasn't been viewed very highly for a very long time yet it seems a fairly recent phenomenon in the mainstream in the US. And, lets face it, what practical difference does a low popularity in an opinion poll towards the end of his second term really make given that he cannot be voted in for a third term? The time for action was at the last election - yet he got voted in again! Why I think this is frightening is that I wonder what information has been fed to the US public that can keep people so unaware of the global realities. Perhaps another misuse of the administration's power to keep relevant information away from the everyday population? All the best.

Lots of interesting discussion... What I think: Firstly, I am amazed at the hypocrisy of a nation who believes it can promote democracy in other countries when it is arguable whether Bush was actually voted in to start with. Tell me what the actual difference is between Bush's (or his people's) manipulation of the system to ensure being voted in against any other dictator who holds an election and then disregards/manipulates the results? (I am talking about the election process alone and not any other inhumane acts said dictator may have caused to happen). Secondly, I find it distressing that the US country or administration can act without the support of the UN in invading Iraq. A dangerous precedent was set which really puts fear into the smaller nations about how useful the UN is as a protection from the largest power. Australia has to be so far up the US' arse for our own protection. Sure, if we don't agree the US might not invade us, but it wouldn't be a problem for them to put in trade sanctions etc to stuff up our economy completely. Finally, do you really think Bush would have been voted in (if, in fact he even was) if every single citizen *had* to vote? In Australia voting is mandatory - so, I think, even if you are a "lazy" voter - as I am(!) - I am still forced to consider where this country is going and use my best judgment...except for one year when I voted for the Australian Marijuana Party!! (That time is a bit hazy for me...) Sorry - I am only 30 so my knowledge of past political is limited - so I can only comment on what I have seen I think it was Lozen who said the US makes the most donations or gives the largest financial assistance? I wonder if we can get some statistics on the per capita rate of donation?? I would be interested to know...

So accurate an assessment, it hurts! Love me...but don't love me too much Emelgee

Why the fascination with trying to work out the "proper" vs "illusory" mco? My teacher says "fake it till you make it". Once you "make it", you will "know it" and then it doesn't really matter that it was "faked" up till then anyway! Be like a Nike ad - just do it

I completely understand your point Lozen but perhaps this whole discussion has been borne more from Li Jong's lack of practice with the English language then any real intent on his/her part to create differentiation between people... Anyway, I remembered something from the Osho Zen Tarot for the card titled "The Fool" which is that the Fool will continue to trust people even when sometimes those people haven't the best interests for him as it is better for the Fool to have a trusting heart than a suspicious one. In terms of Li Jong's original post I would prefer to have a trusting heart. It seems when I let my heart be trusting, that a lot of the words and any offence that may be taken on an intellectual level (which I think a lot of this discussion is being held at) to those words, don't seem to carry the same weight anymore.

I think SheepishLord embodies the ego of people who seek enlightenment and see it as some competition to be the most enlightened. I find it tiresome and irksome that the path to "enlightment" seems occasionally to be covered in swear words and insults that do not help anyone. Whilst on some level I understand his attempt at stimulating confronting conversation, his attempts very much suffer due to a very serious lack of execution. However, moving right along... In reply to Li Jong's original post, I had been considering my earlier post and had been wondering about what part of me had felt it necessary to speak such words...even if viewed in jest by other people. I apologise to Li Jong for the small mindedness I displayed and any attempt to make him feel "bad" for trying to sell/share his ideas.

Oops...

I choose to be unworthy. If $81.00 is all it takes to be classified as worthy...

I think it is important not to be too prescriptive about the terms "master" or "teachers" or what our particular role may be in such a relationship at any given point in time. I read this book called "The Tao of Mentoring" (I can't remember who wrote it) but the gist of the book was essentially that mentoring is a mutual process. I may start having little knowledge on one subject so I seek a teacher and while he helps me, somehow I help or teach him either through the process of learning (which possibly opens the teacher to new concepts). Or, it transpires that I know a lot about a different subject my teacher would like to learn about and suddenly, I am sharing my knowledge and have assumed the "teacher" role for a little while. People will intuitively know when they are in a mutual-mentoring relationship and such roles do not have to remain the exclusive domain of one or the other person.

Hi Dan, This practice sounds similar to something I have been shown called the "mouse swing". Having briefly read the article referred to by you, it seems the difference is that when I drop my arms I breath out through my nose in a short, concerted "burst" of air that is powered by compressing my belly. I also focus my attention to my lower tan tien while performing the mouse swings. Generally I will do this for 4 or 5 minutes and then go straight into holding the tree and some of the sensations I then experience are pretty wonderful.

re: mantak chia's body of work. something i have been realising is this whole qi gong and energy work stuff..... a particular structure has been given to something that doesn't necessarily need a structure. i mean why are there so many forms of qi gong out there? because each individual 'master' has invented their own..... and what gives them the ability to invent their own over us? nothing really..... it's just energy. literally you can play with it. i just do intuitive energy practices whenever i do them now, and only sometimes. i try not to get too stuck in the energy part of it because that is only a small portion. meditation, and i have realised a meditation that cultivates presence is the really important bit. ---- Hey N, At the rist of incurring wrath... Firstly, what you say above can relate to any "guru" and not specifically to Chia and, more importantly, you need to let the Chia aggro go! I get that you aren't keen on him or his practices. It's cool, I can respect your point - but if you hold on to it, it will affect you negatively. That would really suck... Emelgee

But enough about me, what about you? Do you know or have an idea about what your true purpose is? How do you feel about your level of clarity on your calling in life? Sean Hey Sean, Has anyone ever mentioned that you might (just possibly) think too much? If not, I will run the gauntlet and just raise it as a possibility. But bear in mind with the above comment that I am a reformed thinker! Oh, how I can torture myself when I choose to Thankfully, these self imposed tortures are becoming less and less common. My purpose in life is to be me. Before I could be me I had to stop thinking about what being me meant. I will put in an excerpt from Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" that I always find useful if I start becoming too attracted to the meanderings of my mind... ----- "Just be yourself" is good advice, but it can also be misleading. The mind will come in and say, "Let's see. How can I be myself?" Then, the mind will develop some kind of strategy: "How to be myself." Another role. "How can I be myself" is, in fact, the wrong question. It implies you have to do something to be yourself. But 'how' doesn't apply here because you 'are' yourself already. Just stop adding unnecessary baggage to who you already are. "But I don't know who I am. I don't know what it means to be myself." If you can be absolutely comfortable with not knowing who you are, then what's left is who you are - the being behind the human, a field of pure potentiality rather than something that is already defined. Emelgee.

Hi Paul I work with Chia's stuff also (combined with a "teacher" for one on one training sessions - how sweet is that!) and would like to say I haven't found it confusing yet but that may be because I have a really good friend who can take Chia's stuff and break it down for me. I have read some of Michael Winn's stuff and enjoy his insights also. Good luck