Walker

Do you mean shut up and go away?

Or discuss, on the discussion forum. Well, all that writing, mon frere, was for reading. Agreed on both counts. Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that I have seen Steve show kindness here plenty of times. In all instances, it is laudable. I do take that into account, but regarding "having an off day," it is like this: So we have man who isn't in a great mood one day, so he gets on Facebook to gay bash and (possibly) try to start a real-life fight, or at least ruin somebody else's day by trolling him online. Off day #1. Then he comes here days later to brag about what he did that day. So this is off day #2? Then, when the questionable nature of his behavior is brought to his attention here, he responds with "fool fool moron moron jealous." Either we have now witnessed off day #3, or we are seeing a man who just acts like that. Honestly, I wouldn't have bothered him in the first place if he wasn't selling books with the word "spiritual" all over the back cover and selling videos of shen practices. I decided to offer my perspective for those early-stage seekers on this forum who might not have had the opportunity to meet the many teachers I have studied with around the world who would explain how Steve Gray's behavior raises serious red flags. To such newcomers I wish to point out that in it would probably be wise to think carefully about what is reflected in the above sort of behavior before putting stock in the author's book chapter about enlightenment or experimenting with neigong practices meant to affect the shen. I do not wish to "lynch" Steve Gray by ending his career. Invariably some people will think I'm being very hypocritical, but I will say that I wish him all the best. They key is I believe it is unlikely that "all the best" will come to a man who is making some of the mistakes he appears to be making. My opinion is rooted in the teachings on what the English speaking Daoist master Ni Huaching calls the "laws of universal energy response," from "感應." These teachings are related to Buddhist teachings on karma, but not 100% the same. As we are all more or less equals here, I offer my opinion to Starjumper that he may face consequences later on if the poor example he sets and the shengong he is sharing here causes problems. His protests like "but I never said I was a master" or "I didn't say I am teaching spirituality" may (sort of) work as a dodge on a message board, but will it be enough to dodge 感應? I wouldn't bet on it. But one is always free to learn the painful way if one wishes. I certainly chose that route many times, and all others are free to walk it. Anyway, Master Ni writes extensively about this stuff in his books, which can be found used on Amazon for low prices. Although they can be a bit disorganized and rarely offer specific practices, I think they are very worthwhile reading for those who wish to learn more about Daoism. Especially when it comes to learning about 德. Thank you for your opinions. You're right that there are excellent aspects to what he has shared with us here. I disagree, however, about not pointing out the things that we think people who have chosen to step into the role of teacher are doing which we feel could be damaging to students. You are right when you say "objecting to Starjumper won't stop other people from studying with him," which is why I did not write with the plan to try and stop other people from studying with him. I agree with you 100% when you say, "we just don't have that power and I'm not convinced it would be a good thing if we did." My goal is very simply to provide a counterpoint to his flamboyant, flippant, sophomoric attitude towards the responsibilities of spiritual teacher that he half wants, half doesn't want. I might be wrong, too! I can do no more than add my thoughts to the pot here and let others react as they please. Finally, more generally, while I appreciate the sentiment of "rather than pointing out the bad, I find it´s much more useful to champion the good," I do not think it is a sufficient strategy for dealing with the complexities of life. There's a whollllle lot of shit in human society that needs to be pointed at so that it can be discussed, understood, and transformed. For instance, I used to spout waaaaaaayyy more homophobic language than anything I've ever seen on this board, and was taught that that was normal (in fact, necessary) at such a young age that I didn't even question thinking and speaking this way by the time I was an adult. I did not even change my behavior even after I had gay friends; even after a friend trusted me enough that I was the first person he came out to. In fact, I probably told myself something along the lines of, "see, this proves I'm not homophobic, therefore what does it matter if I say these things when I'm having an off day?" I'm glad that eventually friends pulled my card and pointed very directly at this major flaw in my personality. Had they simply emphasized my positive traits and ignored that problem, where would the impetus to meditate upon that deep-rooted habit have come from?

_/\_

There are a million and one schools and sub-schools of Daoism, so what I am about to say is a generalization, nothing more: Daoists tend not to teach things designed to promote vivid dreaming, and rather to teach things that harmonize the jing, qi, and shen in ways that make dreams less vivid and less frequent. Underlying this is the common understanding that most dreams reflect the qi of the body being in some way out of balance. Dream-heavy sleep is not seen as being particularly nourishing sleep, and the "information" one might believe one gleans from dreams is not usually given much value, because Daoism generally does not believe that an undeveloped practitioner is likely to be receiving messages from the celestial realms while snoozing. Another common understanding lying at a yet deeper level is that a true adept does not fall into unconsciousness nor experience any types of delusions, which most dreams are. Such adepts may receive direct transmissions in sleep, but will recognize the qi of the transmission for what it is, and have no questions about its source and the true nature of the "dream." As for the practice, some thoughts: exercising the eyes in this way will direct plenty of qi to the areas of the body associated with shen, thereby stimulating the shen. If the qi has not redistributed by the time you go to sleep, this alone may be enough to trigger dreams, hypnagogic hallucinations, or lights in your head. Add to this that the eyes are the opening of the liver, and the liver should "contain the blood" (a metaphor, not an anatomical occurrence) during sleep, then if you stimulate the eyes you may agitate the liver qi in such a way that blood does not "rest" as it should at night. Since "blood is the physical basis of the shen," overly active blood at night will only contribute to shen's activity, which can manifest as vivid dreams. Also, since the liver is associated with the hun spirits, if you have stimulated your liver qi via the eyes, this too can create conditions that lead to sleep with vivid dreams. All of this might sound like TCM woo-woo (and it is), but think about it this way: if you stare at a TV or phone or computer late at night you're basically doing the same thing, and will affect your sleep. People who get into the habit of dimming lights at home in the evening and partaking of simple, slow hobbies at night instead of placing their eyes on glowing screens full of activity and detail and placing their shen upon exciting movies or games or news articles, will find themselves having having deeper, more placid sleep. TCM explains the mechanism underlying this change via many of the same mechanisms that affect the practice you described. Finally, breathing out through the mouth can help to remove turbid qi from the body, but any practice that has this effect can also quickly begin to make a dent in one's "right qi." If you were instructed to continue the mouth breathing for a long time you might have done so, which will only contribute to the body's qi being in an unbalanced state, which is one of the bases for having dreams. A Daoist would probably say that it might have been a nightmare, but might also have been a ghost or demon. Since this has only happened once, no need to worry about it too much. The Daoists I know would say you've made a wise decision. It is generally advised that one should not leap into shen-stimulating practices early on, and if/when one does so, it should be under the guidance of a trusted and experienced teacher. Never heard of this technique. There are countless techniques that can be fit under the broad umbrella of Daoism, many of which bear little resemblance to one another and in fact take practitioners in quite difference directions. Daoism definitely contains many simple and powerful practices--in fact, it is often true that the simpler they are, the more powerful they are. Because they can trigger strong reactions, as a rule of thumb Daoist techniques are meant to be taught face-to-face. Certainly many meditation instructions have made their way into publicly-available writing over the centuries, but not in their entirety. It is impossible for Daoist teachings to be transmitted in their entirety through writing, in part because students need to be able to ask teachers questions which will invariably arise, because each practitioner is different in countless ways.

Environment might be a factor, too. I had two friends get into this in Beijing during a year with several "airpocalypses" (pm2.5>800 sorta days, where you can't see clearly past three meters indoors) and they both ended up sick as hell and stayed that way a surprisingly long time. All the intense breathing practice when your air is toxic, your food is cooked in reused oil or sewer oil, and daily life contains a steady stream of stressful extremes might work against this method pretty badly, at least for beginners. Note where Wim takes his classes in documentaries (e.g. beautiful mountains in rural Poland, not a tract of factory yards and coal fire power plants in Warsaw) and look at forest bathing research into what simply sitting in the woods without even practicing anything does for your body. Being in nature provides a significant, measurable boost to your physiology that may mitigate the challenges beginners without a good foundation face when playing with this stuff. Conversely, lots of environments tax your immune system, drain your adrenals like SJ said, fill you with cortisol, etc, unless you're already pretty fucking sagely already. Another thing my friends in Beijing considered was simply heating. They lived in poorly heated old buildings, so after their cold showers in the winter it was hard to ever fully warm back up. My strong guess having lived in western Europe is that Wim is teaching mostly people whose indoor heating keeps their homes pretty toasty in the winter. That way you once you're done with your cold shower you're back into a 25-30 degree C environment, instead of a 15-20 degree environment, which is a big difference if you've just intentionally frozen your balls off (or in, as it were) and your body is trying to return to normal.

You would naturally become a 仙 without any effort whatsoever. It is the endless efforting of the malfunctioning ego that prevents this process from unfolding. Daoism has many equivalent terms even if no direct translations. An important one is expressed in the term "人心死則道心生" (when the human mind/heart dies then the Dao mind/heart is born), which harkens to the 《尚書》 but is widely embraced by Daoists and used quite frequently in alchemy treatises and in conversation. The closest term is probably 無我 (no I/me), which arguably comes from Buddhism, but in any case has been a major part of Daoist since long before your grandma's grandma's grandma's grandma was born. From Li Daochun's Book of Balance and Harmony: 識破無人無我， 何須求佛求仙。 隨時隨處總安禪， 一切幻塵不染。 [If you] thoroughly understand there is no them, no I (or "no other, no self")/ [Then] what need [have you] to seek immortality or seek buddhahood?/ At any time, in any place, [you're] always resting in [dhyana/meditative equipoise]/ All the [types of] illusory [gunas/dust], none of them can stick [to you]. Praises to 李道純 for taking the time to pen his wisdom for later generations!

Might be time to establish a wild-eyed new subforum, "Today in between 9-hour zhanzhuang sessions I went to Starbucks (only because their bathroom is more spacious than the indie joint, otherwise I'd totally go to the indie joint, like fuck corporate, yknow?), and anyway, as I was exerting my LDT induction force to slurp the chunky-yet-delish dregs of my second caramel-mint-double-choc venti frappe with extra cream on top and two extra espresso shots through a woefully thin straw, I suddenly looked around and realized all the other patrons were fucking retarded ZOMBIES man!" Kinda a long name, could just be called Ventibums or something...

Speaking about the surface symptoms (specific instances of oppression, genocide, mass internment) does not necessitate unawareness of deeper symptoms. Nor should deeper symptoms (law, currency) be confused with root causes, which they are not. A well-trained physician considers both shallow and deep symptoms at once, because they ultimately reflect the status of the very same immune system and are woven together. (Then, if s/he has learned anything from experience, quickly reminds self that even the most obvious-seeming diagnosis is at best an educated guess)

I'm willing to accept that the history book numbers for any of the things I mentioned above are exaggerated, perhaps even massively so. I have no way to prove one set of numbers over another, and humans are humans... if I can accept the notion that people traffic organs, I can certainly accept the notion that people also juke statistics. That said, even if I was convinced that some of these statistics are off by a factor of 10, it would be very difficult for me to come to the conclusion that we modern humans, in general, have not proven ourselves plenty capable of taking part in organized, large scale butchery. Like, ok, let's say Hitler "only" killed 100,000 civilians in the Holocaust. This is still a phenomenal number of murders. Still a holocaust. Speaking more specifically of the CCP, I never saw anything over there that made me think they should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to brutality. I know a lot of people hate anecdotes, but here're two anyway: when I lived in Chicago, lots of people I knew had stories about family members or friends being killed by guns, or witnessed gun violence themselves (me included). And whaddayaknow, look at statistics, Chicago has a heck of a lot of gun violence. Conversely, where I lived in China nobody ever mentioned murders of people they knew, but lots of people spoke to me about they themselves or people they knew getting sent up to gulags, and other things, like "generally if the state wants to tear down your house unless you live in Beijing or Shanghai eventually you just have to stop protesting even if they don't compensate you, 'cause they might just send local goons to kill your whole family and send a message to the rest of the village." But hey, China's official stats for murders are exceedingly low, and certainly that was not a crime on anybody's mind out there. I know, I know, neither statistics nor anecdotes nor even one's own eyes and ears can be believed. But as for Falun Gong organ harvesting, from everything I've seen, my money is on there being some truth to this one.

Ah. Quote function overrides block function. To nobody in particular: The average adult educated adult understands that Africans were captured and sold into slavery and then imported to the British colonies and early United States (not to mention countless other places in the Americas) where they lived lives of torment, deprived of all freedom, rights, and dignity, forced to work at their masters' whims, endure rape and torture, and even accept that their violent death at a white person's hands would not be prosecuted as murder. The average educated adult also understands that following the end of the Civil War it was generally possible to lynch (or rape or physically assault, etc) a black person with total impunity in the southern states, and with a very high likelihood of impunity in the northern states, all the way up until the 1960s. The average educated adult understands that "pillars of the community" such as teachers, police officers, government officials, successful businessmen, doctors, lawyers, deacons and so forth dressed up in strange Halloween-like ghost costumes while they committed mass violence against black Americans, which included hanging up men from trees in public spaces and leaving their bodies to rot (hence the term "Southern trees bear strange fruit" immortalized by Billie Holiday), burning homes and even neighborhoods, and burning places of worship. The average educated adult also understands that while black Americans are now seldom if ever lynched by the KKK or other bands of bloodthirsty whites, they may still be brutally assaulted or even shot to death by police officers for no excusable reason, and even when such events are captured on video, it is still exceedingly rare for the police officer to face serious legal repercussions. Yes, the average educated adult understands these things. The average adult educated adult also understands that Nazis and their collaborators rounded up millions of people because they were Jewish or because they were gay or because they were mentally or physically disabled or because they were gypsies or because they were communists or anarchists and so on, and then put them into massive camps, where they were then systematically gassed to death on an industrial scale, with a death toll very well into the millions. The average educated adult also understands that in addition to enslaving and killing their prisoners, the Nazis and their collaborators also subjected them to vile and deranged "scientific" and "medical" experimentation, in addition to a litany of "normal" disgusting acts that human beings are capable of subjecting each other to, such as murder, rape, torture, theft, etc. Yes, the average educated adult understands these things. The average adult educated adult also understands that during WWII the Japanese imprisoned large numbers of Chinese people and also subjected them to vile and deranged "scientific" and "medical" experimentation, in addition to a litany of "normal" disgusting acts that human beings are capable of subjecting each other to, such as murder, rape, torture, theft, etc. Additionally, the average educated adult understands that in a mass act of hysterical violence, Japanese soldiers in Nanking massacred over 100,000 people in just a couple of days. There are many other things the average adult understands about Japan's brutality elsewhere in Asia during this period, notably in Korea and the Philippines, where this brutality involved systematic, government-sanctioned human trafficking in the form of sex slaves. The average educated adult is well aware of a dark litany of industrial scale depravity committed under Stalin, Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty, and so forth, as well as more recent instances of institutional ultraviolence, such in the Levant under the hands of ISIS and Assad. Even if the average educated adult does not believe that one or two of the above events "really happened" or else believes "it wasn't really that bad as everybody says," it would be hard to find an educated adult who disbelieves in all of them. Finally, the average educated adult understands that under the Chinese Communist Party we witnessed the Great Leap Forward (tens of millions dead due to human "folly," to use far too light a word), the Let 100 Flowers Bloom campaign, the Cultural Revolution (ten years of madness, violence, murder, torture, internecine warfare between roving bands of rival Red Guards, institutionalized torture, the demolition of a classical civilization, millions dead), the destruction of Tibetan civilization coupled with mass violence and incarceration, the massacre on Tiananmen Square 30 years ago, the mass imprisonment of Falun Gong practitioners following their protests in the late 1990s, and the mass incarceration of 1,000,000+ Uighurs and Kazakhs in Xinjiang Province. An average educated adult has learned of humanity's propensity for institutionalized, industrialized mass depraved violence perpetrated within living memory by Americans, Germans, Japanese, Russians, Cambodians, Koreans, Chinese, etc, etc, etc, etc. But, When faced with over a decade's worth of accumulating documentation of human trafficking and organ harvesting in China under a government that doesn't even deny that it has put 1,000,000+ Uighurs into internment camps, for some reason the average educated adult should reject it out of hand as "drivel."

Thanks for posting that. The last sentence is particularly haunting: I've been following the catastrophe in Xinjiang closely and it is widely reported that they are forcing pretty much every Uighur and Kazakh in the province to submit to DNA registration. A shorter video than the one above, featuring Mosher:

Double post

Epoc Times is run by Falun Gong, so I (and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people) didn't take these allegations particularly seriously when they first appeared. Seemed too gratuitous to be believable. Even though the brutality of the CCP is well known, one imagines there is a gap, somehow, between violently oppressing your populace and actually having members of your populace carved up alive to be sold piecemeal to medical tourists and wealthy locals. However, in the last year I've seen three documentaries on the subject and met a human rights lawyer involved in trying to protect FG practitioners. I'm now prone to thinking that the stories have been true all along. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes Also:

The last sentence was hilarious. The fact that hundreds of millions of kids are gonna grow up hunchbacked with iPad-irradiated genitals, porn addiction, post-natal acquired autism, diminished creativity, and weird-ass compulsions to photograph food and "like" everybody else's food photos is un-hilarious. I use no social media (except for this site, which I've actually made real-life friends from, in addition to countless enemies, most of whom I have vanquished using my tremendous qi powers) and I never find myself feeling like I'd have a better life if I had a little page where I could let people know I just ate a sandwich and plan to go poopee within the next five or six hours. I meet random people on the street, in stores, in classes, wherever on a regular basis. Partly I think that's because not having my nose up Mark Zuckerberg's proverbial ass all day has left me with the time to work on old, bad habits (which predated social media for me) like shyness, fear of rejection, cantankerousness, aversion to small talk, reluctance to smile, fear of looking stupid, etc. All that took time, but was worth it. I can understand why a lot of people retreat into their phones, but it's a pity that so many people practically come to live through them. However, I gotta add that while I can relate to your comment to up to a certain degree, I spent the last three days in a huge auditorium where well over 1,000 people sat paying rapt attention while Tsoknyi Nyima Rinpoche offered subtle body teachings. It was easy to find warm, open people to chat with during breaks and on the way to the subway afterwards, and I only saw one douchebag playing with his phone the whole time. As he was in front of me and I was forced to see him compulsively checking on his CCTV monitoring station to see what his dog was doing (I did not realize people did this... fucking hell) and peruse shopping websites, I felt compelled to firmly tap him on the shoulder and show him my wrathful deity face. The second time it worked, although he responded with a dramatic pouty offended face haha. No idea why he would pay $60 bucks to stare at live video of his dog while some Tibetan guy speaks about the importance of not living in your head, but whatever, not my problem. The other 1,000 people there were great. There are still plenty of people around who are in various stages of "waking up," or at least not being too asleep.

I'm really serious about the picnics.

Cah, check it: You asked: I replied: There is nothing universal about the word "they," and it certainly doesn't include you. But then you write: My man, something in your mind--perhaps simply your anger--is so strong that you are seeing much more than was actually there... and then feeling the need to defend yourself from that which was not there to begin with. Perhaps you think I am totally wrong, but please note that I am not the only person in this thread who has suggested your thinking is clouded by anger. It might be beneficial to contemplate the possibility that there is something to what people are saying to you. I don't mean that is something we need to discuss here. I mean it is something you may need to face in your life sooner or later if you wish to reach the type of goals you have mentioned having in this thread. I do not pretend to know what feeds your depression, anxiety, anger, and isolation. It sounds like you grew up in a difficult environment, and I would not be surprised if you faced some very difficult challenges and maybe even people who truly abused their power when you were a child and adolescent. Having to leave your circle in order to remove yourself from these people and a religion that repulses you must have been difficult. Such things almost inevitably create burdens in people's hearts, and these burdens can be very heavy and cause much additional pain later, even decades down the line. Usually we can't "just put them down," so we need to learn how to work on such burdens. Unfortunately, on Planet Earth people who really understand these things are few and far between, so it is possible to go years without making much progress. One must be very fortunate to encounter the teachings one will need to learn how to deal with deep trauma. Additionally, dealing with such things while transitioning to adulthood from adolescence especially difficult. There have undoubtedly been hundreds of millions of young men who ended up full of anger and spite at your age. It is a very large club, one I was a very proud member of. So, I sincerely hope things improve for you in time, regardless of how you may interpret my posts at present. If you still think I'm a manipulative, word-twisting old motherfucker with a God complex who thinks everybody should shut up and defer to Muslims and Buddhists and whatever, that is cool, too. Thank you for capitalizing my G, at least. Thank you also for imagining a beautiful world in which Muslims and Buddhists get along perfectly, even if they do so at your expense. Anyway, you have found your way to a spiritual message board. In addition to people who prefer to contemplate philosophy on their own, there are people here who have studied with representatives of a great many "traditions" and religions, some for a very long time. Many of the people here disagree about a great many things. But among those who do practice, I would say almost all agree on these five things: 1-Human beings are plastic. We can change. We can even utterly transform. (If we could not, then there would be no point to practice and study). 2-We all have to take full responsibility for our own personal transformation. This is true for you whether you start as a relatively clean slate, or as a "dirty slate." This is true for you no matter how much bad shit the world and its denizens may have done to you in the past. It is still true even if the world and its denizens do more bad shit to you in the future. This part is difficult for all of us, because assigning blame and lashing out because of it is almost a reflexive reaction unless one possesses ample reserves of equanimity and insight. 3-A significant degree of humility is needed throughout the process of transformation. Not because humility is somehow a "universal good," but because a lack of humility comes from thinking one understands more than one really does. This kind of delusion makes one stiff, stubborn, and indeed stupid. Transforming, improving one's lot, and lessening one's suffering will be difficult if one does not entertain the possibility that one's strongly-held ideas are at least partially wrong. 4-You can find examples of truly fucked up people, ideas, and customs in all religions. Even so, most or all religions contain some wisdom amid their teachings, and can boast some members who are quite highly "achieved"--in other words, close to the Dao. Given that this is so, if one has the opportunity, one can selectively study and benefit from the wisdom contained in religions. It is absolutely possible to do so without joining outright or "drinking the Kool Aid." 5-You can also walk the path of self transformation while having little or no contact with anything we would call religious. In any case, points 1-3 remain the same. That is all I have to say to you. Good luck and good bye. Oh, wait, I lied. One more thing: picnics are dope. That is a universal motherfucking truth right there.

Strange. I thought you belonged to an evangelical group. Didn't you seek converts? I said I think it would be fine for you to follow your own path, and that it would be good to walk away from teachings if you don't like them. I honestly don't think you should join _____ group. But, if you wish to express strong opinions about _____, perhaps do your homework first. More on this later. Sure, there is much evil connected to the many religions. And yet, seemingly paradoxically, the many religions have also brought a great many people comfort, peace, and gains in freedom. So many double edged swords. what can ever be said about them that is not at least 50% wrong? This kind of paradox is one of the themes in Chinua Achebe's novel Things Fall Apart. You know. Some years ago, I was close friends with and then briefly dated a Thai Buddhist woman with many Thai Buddhist friends. They told me they got many things from Thai Buddhism, among which were ample opportunities to attend intense meditation retreats all over the country, where they were the ones getting free food and lodging, in addition to in-depth teachings. At the time we were all living in China and whenever we went to PRC Buddhist temples they commented on the differences between them and the ones in Thailand. They preferred the ones in Thailand, because they were often open, grassy spaces where people could bring their whole families to relax, picnic, horse around, and laugh. The temples were like local parks, open to all, and lots of fun to hang out in. But! My point is not about Thai Buddhism. My point is: howzabout you go and actually get to know some of the people you're here hum-hum-harrumphing about for a few years and see if maybe some of your hum-hum-harrumphy opinions change? You might even meet a nice Thai girl in the process, never know... Sure. For the record, I do not wish to convert you or anybody to anything. If we knew each other, I would not even invite you to any temple I regularly frequent, because sitting around bickering with some dude would just ruin a perfectly good afternoon and probably distract me from smelling the incense and chatting with the 65-year-old Taiwanese ladies. Mmm, incense. Mmm, 65-year-old Taiwanese ladies. Uh, by definition, not understanding how Muslims understand Allah does make you less knowledgeable (wisdom is another issue). Because it does mean you lack knowledge, your paucity indeed behooves you to hold your tongue before making pronouncements about Islam and Muslim. Why? A very simple example: In the PRC, people call potatoes 土豆/tudou and peanuts 化生/huasheng. In Taiwanese, people call potatoes 馬鈴薯/malingshu and peanuts 土豆/tudou. Let us say you live in Taiwan. You absolutely hate peanuts. Not only do you hate them, you are deathly allergic to them. Not only are you deathly allergic to them, you are convinced that they are actually poisonous for everybody, and that nobody should eat these damn fucking peanuts. So then one day you meet a Chinese person from the PRC who asks if you would like to join him to enjoy a fine platter of 青椒土豆絲, or shredded potatoes and green peppers, a popular and tasty dish. Well, you hear him say "tudou," and you realize this fucking asshole is trying to get you to each a plate of deadly, disgusting peanuts. This motherfucker is trying to kill you. And he doesn't even realize he's ingesting poison himself whenever he puts those tudou in his mouth. So you start to school him on tudou till you're blue in the face, and finally you can't stand the ignorant, brainwashed bastard, so you peace out. Then the guy has a whole plate of delicious 青椒土豆絲蓋飯 all to himself, while even though you look very smart, you're still hungry, and now you have missed lunchtime. Point being: if you want to try and talk about Buddhism (or Islam or Daoism or peanuts and potatoes), if you do not take the time to thoroughly understand the vocabulary, you will just make points that are moot the moment they drop from your lips. No. Faith is not remotely necessary to go much deeper into the teachings than you have gone. I know many professors who can offer incredibly detailed, multi-layered explanations of Buddhist teachings they do not have faith in and do not practice. All I'm talking about is simple, old-fashioned, boring studying. Hahaha, well, whatever man. Who am I to say your analysis is wrong? I never read Nietzsche. But every time I bump into Nietzsche-ites, I'm like, "thaaaaaaaaannnnk god I never ran into that guy's books when I was a grumpy 20-year-old." A refreshing poem! Have a fun trip. Don't break any principles. Or backpack straps. And if you're sharing your tent with somebody, don't break wind, either. Unless it's three of you in there. Then you can blame the other guy. If your butt is quiet enough. Thank you for the clarification, and I am glad to know that you feel justified. And I do so like it when you get nasty with me. Rawr. That is just one level, one angle. Zoom in, zoom out, change angles, empty the mind, fill the mind, turn into a dung beetle and you will find poop very attractive, turn into a goose and you will see the most beautiful human woman on earth but fall from the sky because you forget how to fly due to being shocked by how damn ugly that hairless she-ape is. Zhuangzi 101 right there. But beware of retorting, "what, so you're saying what Hitler did was okay, because everything is relative, huh, huh?" The answer is of course Hitler was unmitigated scum. What is so bad about doormats? If you have drivel on your shoe, you can wipe it on a doormat before you go into your mountaintop clubhouse (or your fart tent). I sure wish I had a complete doormat.

Real problem is both sides are dead convinced they got the trunk, which means sooner or later somebody's finna get a ten gallon surprise. Bright side? Never be short on 精 again...

You are approaching these teachings with too much head, not enough heart. The result is the amusing irony that you are wielding sentences about not learning from a book you studied in order to win a debate that doesn't actually exist. This debate does not really exist, because "there is no room for contradiction in the Dao," and because both of these traditions are extremely up-front in admitting the insurmountable limitations of language. Well, shucks. On these paths, one studies always, but not in order to accumulate knowledge. Rather, one studies in order to understand what happens as one practices, and in order to enrich one's practice. While studying and practicing, one does both with detachment. It is probably not a great idea to study too much without practicing, as you will simply exhaust and make restive your mind, which is counterproductive. Going back century after century, the texts written for students who are serious about practice have long warned that applying too much mental effort to try and wrap your mind around spiritual teachings far beyond your personal experience ranges from being a fruitless endeavor to downright hazardous. That you profess to suffer from depression, anxiety, and social isolation that have worsened in tandem with your studious approach strongly commends your decision to change your approach. But it does not mean that Buddhism or Christianity are the root of the problem, nor that wielding what you seem to have learned from the Daodejing as an antidote will fix anything for you. You don't have to take my word for it though. You could also just keep on doing what you're doing for another year or two and see if you have ameliorated your depression, anxiety, and social isolation. If you have, then you're probably on a better path than you were for the last half decade. Congratulations in advance. "You can always learn more" is always true. Some may make this statement from a standpoint of wisdom and contentment, some from standpoints that bespeak a lack of fulfillment. Then the fact that I am so wrong about so many things should certainly suggest to you that I must be one of great intelligence, indeed! If you could demolish Buddhism for me, I would be very impressed, and I am sure you and I would both benefit tremendously by your efforts. No, I mean you are speaking about things you do not have a thorough, incisive understanding of. Therefore you make statements that reveal you have very incomplete knowledge. You have yet to discover that many of these ancient teachings contain layers of meaning, up to and including meaning that cannot be verbally expressed and which surpasses the logic upon which thought and language rely. You also have yet to discover that many of these ancient teachings can be approached from multiple angles, which may seem to be or even in fact be contradictory. In other words, you are wielding a vocabulary that you do have much of a grasp of in terms of the knowledge you would acquire through study of books alone. On top of book knowledge, you also lack the sorts insights than can only be gained by penetrating into the teachings so that you do not remain stuck looking at the finger pointing at the moon. Thus do I say you have more to learn. 慢慢來. Of course they are full of flaws and contradictions. I cannot speak of other traditions, but both Shakyamuni (and a great many subsequent Buddhists) and Laozi were very up front about this problem. Luckily it is only a surface-layer problem. One who enters into the depths of these teachings via practice and heart will not be beset by apparent contradiction. You ask, why would anybody pursue teachings that are flawed and contradictory in the end? To go beyond the teachings. Now, if the teachings do not appeal to you, perhaps it is best to just walk away from them. I can see no good reason to continue studying if the teachings are off-putting. But you might then also wish to consider walking away from your strong opinions. It might not feel to you this way right now, but you gotta admit there's at least a chance that maybe some of what you're saying is sorta kinda founded on bullshit.

Keep. studying. young. man. Heal. Good. Good luck.

In Taiwan there are people who teach along lines of what you seek. If by "religious Daoists," you mean the priests in Taiwan who offer ritual services, it is probably true that most of them are not highly focused on following the most sublime teachings Laozi offered to humanity, but don't be sure that none of them understand these things. Taiwan has ~23,000,000 people, and therefore quite a few Daoists who offer various types of services that you could fairly call religious. Given the size of the population and the fact that this is a very diverse, open culture, be sure that any attempt to characterize its people and groups in simple terms will mean you have gone and mischaracterized its people and groups. Speaking specifically of religious Daoism, it is not unusual for people to be accustomed to "switching hats" here. Somebody who is comfortable in a role such as that of a ritual master may also be quite comfortable in a role where statuary, chanting, costumes, and so forth are quite irrelevant. As one teacher once put it to me, "there is no room for contradiction in the Dao." If you are truly looking for a teacher, you might benefit from spending some time reflecting on that statement. If you let rigidity creep into your vision, you may very well fail to see signs of a person who possesses what you say you seek. Such people are, very often, not especially obvious. At any rate, it is good that you have hit the road to learn about the world, its people, and yourself, but beware of being too sure you know what is going on in the minds of the people who you have observed thus far. I assure you that if you walk into any Daoist or Buddhist teaching/practice environment, you will find as many versions of the teaching as there are people in the room. The range can be striking, going from "I'm here because this is an easy-ass life" to "I'm here because I'm afraid of going to hell" to "I'm here because I'm lonely and bored" to "I'm here because I need the free food" to "I'm here because I am crazy and this is where my family figured out to put me" to "I'm here because I am attached to the teachings in some way that is not truly liberating" to "I'm here because I wish to seek liberation that transcends any of the 'dogmas' and practices, but I will utilize these things for now" to "I am quite far along the path and have seen past its 'dogmas' and practices and can teach you many things if you empty out your cup, humble your mind, slow your breathing, and stop taking your thoughts so seriously." Et cetera. You may need to increase your patience, humility, friendliness (extremely important in Taiwan), and "tolerance for BS" in order to stick around places for the amount of time you will need to even bump into people who have what you wish to learn, much less get a hunch which ones they might be, and then establish a rapport with them. Which, again, will be difficult (especially in Taiwan) if you have not taken the time to ease into groups, and put groups at ease. Edit: this sort of thing takes months and sometimes years. Two other suggestions. First, it would be wise to put down whatever mindset it is you have that has led you to "struggle to see value." Too tightly wound. I suggest that you simply observe yourself, the teachers, the teachings, the other students, and so forth. For years. While practicing a few things that you resonate with. Secondly, in the context of Buddhism and Daoism, you have much to learn about the words "emptiness," "karma," and "meaning." I hope you find a way to fill the gaps in your understanding, and to have joy as you do so.

Studying the Yijing is really not a religious act, even though it may help with the study/practice of religion and even sometimes lead to places that, in the west, seem to fall within the purview of religion. Even the most deeply religious Daoists I know range between not-at-all-familiar and just-barely-familiar with the Yijing, with just a couple of exceptions. A common piece of advice from religious Daoists is to 懺悔/chanhui, which you could translate as "confess," although it is hard to hear that word without its Catholic connotations jumping to mind in English. The first character means to think over your past transgressions against others and express wholehearted, sincere contrition for the harm you caused. You need not seek out the individuals you are thinking of in order for this to work, because if you are truly sincere, then the qi of your intent will create a response. Just as is the advice in programs like Alcoholics Anonymous, you should not seek out a person you have harmed if doing so might hurt them more and unless you are very certain you are capable of making utterly unconditional amends. The second character means to vow to never repeat your mistakes again in the future, and then to do your sincere best to live up to your vow. In Daoism, not only is there is no need to rely upon a "confessor" acting in a role like a Catholic priest, but furthermore I am not aware of teachers are in the habit of "taking confession" from their students. Certainly in some instances a student seeking advice from a Daoist teacher may spontaneously decide to chanhui in his/her teacher's presence or even be advised to do so if the teacher senses that the student would benefit greatly from doing so. Nevertheless, chanhui can be done and, and probably usually is. Again, if it is done with real sincerity, then it will certainly cause subtle ripples in your life and Daoist practice. Another good piece of advice is to 回向/huixiang, which in English is often called "dedication of merit" by Buddhists, who happen to use the exact same word in Chinese and offer the exact same teaching. One can find specific prayers for dedicating merit (they are called 回向文/huixiangwen) at the end of some Daoist texts when they are printed in folios for liturgical use and/or chanting. But one need not use specific prayers. Sufficient is simply reflecting upon what good fortune it is to have encountered these teachings in your life and having the time and freedom to study and practice them, and then to dedicate any merit ("positive vibes," if you like) that you developed by studying and practicing to all beings in existence and/or all beings to whom you owe debts and/or all beings with whom you have affinity. You would then also vow to use the wisdom and ability you gain from studying and practicing Daoist teachings to help other beings. As with chanhui, if your huixiang is truly sincere, then the changes you effect in your qi cannot but influence your life and practice going forward. Eat less meat. Daoism has long understood that there is strong negative energy connected to the slaughtering of animals. For this reason, 正一/Zhengyi Daoists spend periods of time as vegetarians before rituals, and also ban hunting, fishing, and slaughtering of animals in the vicinity of certain rituals. 全真/Quanzhen monks and nuns as a rule are lifelong vegetarians if not vegans. I am not suggesting that one must or even should totally abstain from eating animals in order to pursue the Daoist path. But, if you are looking for advice from the religious tradition that anybody can pick up and use starting today, here you are. Your beleaguered colon, your wallet, and your local rain forest may even thank you for substantially lowering your meat intake. Those who would argue that vegetarianism in Daoism comes from Buddhism would do well to remember that it was a Chinese emperor who promulgated the law that made Buddhist monks and nuns cease eating meat; prior to that it was an omnivorous tradition, going all the way back to the Buddha (and forward all the way to Buddhists today in Tibetan and Southeast Asian traditions).

慈悲

What's up Exorcist, always a pleasure to see your contributions here. I think your interpretation is on-point, but in terms of translation, I think this is more of a 註 than an 譯, as the degree of 詮釋 takes the reader very far from many of the original characters. Dawei, your efforts are solid, but I don't agree with a lot of your interpretations of the logic implied by these short sentences. Here's a little 10 minute translation with a few notes and suggestions I tacked on the end. Not perfect, but here goes: 養氣忘言守 Nurture qi, forget language,1 keep watch 降心為不為 Tame2 the mind, do non-doing 動靜知宗祖 Of movement and stillness, know their ancestor3 無事更尋誰 There is nothing to do, what4 else do you seek? 真常須應物 [The mind/the true and eternal]5 must respond to things 應物要不迷 When responding to things, you must not get lost 不迷性自住 If you do not get lost, your mind nature will naturally be present 性住氣自回 If you mind nature is present, qi will naturally return 氣回丹自結 When qi returns, the elixir naturally forms 壺中配坎離 Within the pot,6 you combine kan and li 陰陽生返复 Yin and yang are born, return, and regenerate7 普化一聲雷 Everything transforms with a peal of thunder 白雲朝頂上 White clouds gather at the crown of the head 甘露灑須彌 Sweet dew is sprinkled on Mt. Sumeru 自飲長生酒 Naturally you sip the liquor of longevity 逍遙誰得知 Free and without a care, who even knows?8 坐聽無弦曲 Sitting and listening to the song played with no strings 明通造化機 Enlightened to the functioning of [the universe/creation and dissolution] 都來二十句 It all comes from these twenty sentences 端的上天梯 Which are really and truly the ladder to heaven ___ 1: The idea of "forgetting words" is important and explicit in quite a few Daoist and Chan writings. I wouldn't lose the character 言 in translation. Here I suspect the teaching is to externally shut the mouth and internally let go of the tendency to have a stream of verbalized thoughts. 2: Treating 降 as xiang and not jiang. 3: I.e., that prior to movement/stillness, yin/yang. 4: 誰 can mean "what." 5: 真常 can be a reference to the mind. I think that even in the definitions offered in Daoist dictionaries that don't suggest that this word refers to the mind, if you consider that "常清常靜" is a descriptor for 性, then it is talking about the nature of a realized/original mind. 6: Nan Huaijin's interpretation of this poem offers that 壺 alludes to its homonym 葫 and was an old symbol for the human body. 7: Or, "give rise to return and regeneration." 8: I am not sure if this is a reference to the inability of others to know what you're doing; to the fact that in this state there is no "you" left to know; both; or something else. Finally, I think the first two sentences of this poem are the most important. They contain a wealth of information but I think that the instructions in them are not connected by a strictly linear logic. In other words, it is true that nurturing qi will help you to forget words and to stay watchful. But staying watchful will also help you to forget words and nurture qi. And allowing yourself to let go of the inner monologue when it arises will also help you to nurture qi and to stay watchful. Similarly, taming the mind will help you do do non-doing, but doing non-doing is also the key to taming the mind. So, there is no clear "first step here," as all of these are first, last, and middle steps, walked simultaneously, one and yet not one, not one and yet one. 合而言之，無所可言；分而言之，就那十個字。