Walker

It's Wang CHONGYang, Baiduboy. The limits you present here are incorrect, 亂猜專家.

Even though I don't know what qigong style you're talking about, I think that would be a fair thing to say of qigong in general (with the caveat that in now and then the word qigong was used in such a broad way in China in the 1980s-90s that it encompassed inner alchemy... but generally speaking qigong and dandao are different things). Hmm, perhaps by that point in practice xing and ming can't be discussed as separate "things," but I can't say. Better to ask Freeform or maybe @exorcist_1699 or the elusive @opendao.

I didn't think you're selling things. My point is: Despite the fact that we are all equally proximate to "source," the sacrifices you made to study with a certain teacher who was educated by three Daoist teachers and initiated into their tradition, indicate that you also see that it is important to find people who are truly qualified to help "point the way." If my reading of the situation is correct, while I appreciate your sentiment that we are all eternally a hair's breadth or less from the Dao, it would seem that that fact doesn't obviate the need for teachers who have been taught how to help people bridge that hair's breadth. You said before, "All this about who is a wrong taoist, reminds me of a moment I had at church, when I knew I was leaving, but hadn't sprung the news on mum yet and was still attending youth functions. It strikes me as insecure." Perhaps the root of all this insecurity. But... If that's all it is... Why not just pay the same tuition to a guy on skid row to tell you how to cultivate? What does a teacher like the one you chose have that any random person in your city doesn't?

I don't disagree with the principle your statement points toward. I won't even argue that what you're saying is wrong and inner alchemy teachings are right. But the inner alchemy teachings of many schools state that in order for one's accomplishment to be "real," one must go far beyond these philosophical concepts. In Buddhism one actually sees something similar, but stated differently. It is said that high level bodhisattvas (recall that there are many levels of bodhisattvahood, the lowest of which begins the moment one makes bodhisattva vows, the highest of which includes buddhahood) can manifest as anything that may be needed to help a person, be it an apparition of Avalokiteshvara, or a glass of water. Philosophical insights, even profound and everlasting ones that alter one's sense of beingness and resolve deep existential questions, will not on their own manifest a cup of water to slake your thirst if you are parched. This indicates that there is still a fundamental disconnect at work. Xing-ming teachings about the body are, one might say, very interested in this disconnect. I think you're just rejecting where I took your door analogy, because I took it in a direction that did not serve your purposes. What I said about the door reflects a pretty basic understanding of resolving xing and ming. If the door simply "knows that it is wood all along," this is great mind gongfu, and may lead to a sort of mental liberation. But if the door cannot restore its living treeness and then its Daoness, it has work left to do. I am not saying that is an ultimate truth, or even that I believe this is how things "really work" (I am not nearly on a level to be able to say). But I am saying this reflects basic Daoist inner alchemy teaching about the body. Ok, no argument here. Except that Daoist alchemy says there must be reversal (逆)... Can your door become a tree again? Can you be a baby? This forum is full of people who have had epiphanies--likely many of them quite genuine and profound--that they "have always been Dao, only Dao in specific name, form and function," if you will. And yet, here they still are, passing through aging and sickness towards death, their original qi slowly being used up until gone. And when it is gone, the body collapses, the last breath is exhaled, the final drop of yang is exhausted, and one is utterly at the mercy of karma. This is the opposite of reversal, it is going along (順). I am not sure what impelled you to write that question and that instruction, but I suspect (am I wrong?) that you're suggesting a mistake intrinsic in Daoist inner alchemy teachings is that they operate from the standpoint of having a self, an ego, an I. But the inner alchemy teaching's require wu wei (non-doing), which operates when there is wu wo (no self). Thus, there is nobody who seeks immortality, and no immortality to seek, and nobody who achieves immortality. Recall, also, that "immortal" is a very poor but somehow commonly accepted translation of a Chinese character written 仙, 仚, 僊, and a couple of other ways. It may also mean 真人, 神仙, 天仙, and a number of other terms. None of them really correspond all that well with the English word "immortal." They have slightly different and sometimes ambiguous or changing definitions in Chinese. Key is that whatever Daoist immortality is, teachers who are "in the door" do not emphasize a flesh-and-blood body that does not die, while they do emphasize that at the level of a 仙, space, time, self, other, and indeed all distinctions are irrelevant. And I am not fool enough to try and answer them. Interesting and worth keeping in mind, but not something I am capable of commenting on. That's an easy claim to make, but it's not something I think you are capable of commenting on. Please keep in mind you've never even read it... I am aware of that--that was my point. Daoist inner alchemy teachers do not, so far as I know, talk about those Vedanta teachings. They might be right and Daoist inner alchemy might be wrong and deluded, but we are not really discussing which school of thought/practice is correct, we're discussing what xing and ming teachings actually are. You can't say "Vedanta says this and it is wrong therefore inner alchemy doesn't say that because it would be wrong." I am not convinced you understand xian-hood in terms of the theories that underpin this word's usage in inner alchemy, and even less in terms of experiential realization (I know that I do not)... But... Who knows. Congratulations on being there.

Please PM the symptoms you have in mind to me, I'll think if I know of anything relevant to the specifics. Your question contains an issue I should address for everybody--this method will help expel what TCM calls external pernicious wind-cold, but it won't help turn a chronically cold constitution warm. In other words, it does not build yang qi, even though it does somehow improve the functioning of the defensive qi (衛氣/weiqi) semi-permanently.

Happy to share! You make an important point--this exercise or something very like it shows up in lots of different traditions. But time is a factor in getting the results I described. Some teachers might teach it as a small part of a warm up , and while I'm sure that's good, it won't bring about the effects I described in the first post. To get the immune-boosting effects it's time consuming in the beginning, but once it has taken effect, it seems not to be necessary to do the practice with any regularity.

And yet, You are a student of Wang Liping, no? Becoming one is a matter of thousands of US dollars, no? If I have not remembered incorrectly, then can we say that although everybody in LA is just as close to "the source" as anybody else, you somehow still saw tremendous value in this very specific teacher, and made a large commitment to be able to study with him? Was it worth it? Did this have something to do with the transmission of teachings he received? Could you have gotten what he gave from just anybody in LA?

"That's right?" Okay. Well, since you have downgraded "met" to "received emails from," I am going to go ahead and downgrade "hundreds" to "perhaps a couple dozen." Your "How I Became a Taoist" video absolutely states that Zhuge Liang chose you. You fainted, voices started speaking to you and instructing you. This is an "I was chosen" story. I only watched one I have mentioned, and this short one of you supposedly doing weather magic: But which looks playing cheap tricks with video editing. If you took the time to seek out and ask actual Daoists, I predict you would find that what you experienced would not be referred to as a "spiritual awakening" or anything that would translate into any Chinese words with similar meaning. Establishing communication with any disembodied voice in Daoism--including that of an actual immortal--neither qualifies as an awakening nor even evidence any change in the quality of your shen. It is not just that you are not a Daoist master or priest... You simply have yet to receive a basic education in Daoism that you would get from an actual teacher. If you had, you would speak differently. It may seem like I say this solely to criticize you, but I actually hope it will cause you to pause, reflect, and possibly use your evidently considerable material resources to set out upon a path that actually enables you to encounter real teachers. I do not believe that whatever you talk to gave you magic powers. Nevertheless, even if you still had to work hard at whatever you're doing, you still present yourself as chosen by an immortal to carry out some mission on earth. Again, the circumstances of this experience sound worryingly like something other than what you have concluded they are. And again, those who have been exposed to the actual living tradition of Daoism tend to have heard reasons for why that would be and the corresponding warnings. I already typed them up in this thread, no need to repeat them all. I believe it is possible your magic works as you say it does. I believe you may have learned many things from Jerry Alan Johnson's books, which evidently draw from Daoist sources. But you have not apprenticed to a Daoist master, and as you admit freely in this thread you rely upon your gleanings from "left hand" message boards with no relationship to Daoism and other traditions to make your interpretations of Johnson's books work. So, again, you are playing with things you don't understand. Using YouTube as a platform to spread your idea of what Daoism is to the naive may carry unfortunate consequences for you and those you could mislead. I don't know what the typical Daoist stereotype is. But Daoism does not teach that men should attempt to achieve worldly greatness. If they do, so be it. If they do not, so be it. Pursuing, striving, ambition... All of these things are warned against. If you find a teacher who transmits these teachings to you, they will not only say that, they will explain why that is, and what the mechanisms underlying these warnings are, and how those mechanisms affect cultivation. Find a teacher. I don't know if offended is quite the right word, but I'll accept it and explain. I am deeply concerned about your promoting what I have explained is a highly problematic interpretation of the events in your life as "Daoism." You have chosen a very public platform and a very ostentatious showing off of powers. You may well confuse people and indeed harm them. As a person who has benefited from extensive exposure to living Daoist lineages and well understands that the most important teachings tend to remain secret and, whether or not they are secret, need to be transmitted from master to disciple, I have seen more than enough to know that what you are doing is dangerous. Even your disclaimer here, "I am a ritual magician who follows a Taoist path," is not really honest. You have adapted some things from the books written by Jerry Alan Johnson, who you have not met, and seemingly combined them with other things that don't even claim to have Daoist origins. I have seen it written on this forum that studying in English with Jerry Alan Johnson himself is a seven year curriculum. As I explained here, native Chinese speaker Quanzhen Daoists who with to become ritual masters traditionally trained for ten or more years. In Daoism, what you are claiming to be is not a self-appointed title one can get after playing with books on one's own. Daoism is already a very secretive tradition, but there is somewhat more openness about the basics of "inner alchemy" than magic, because the former became part of a wider "curriculum" for self cultivation and "salvation" that was not necessarily limited to daoshi/daozhang at times during history, whereas ritual magic has really remained the purview of ritual masters. I have met and had a few discussions with ritual masters and their students. To be certain they maintain a huge amount of secrecy, have to do an extraordinary amount of learning, and are generally not easy people to get information out of. They even purposely hand transcribe manuals out of order so that if they fall into the wrong hands they will not be usable (I have seen these). One master I knew took most of his ritual knowledge to the grave with him because he never found an appropriate disciple in his life. I have no idea what the "Become a Living God" forum is, but given the need for secrecy and years of apprenticeship it should really be no surprise that you won't find open discussions of Daoist magic here on TDB. I doubt more than a handful of westerners have ever truly entered the door of Daoist magic, and in addition to likely being quite busy people, in order to have entered such doors they would have had to show real sincerity and vow to keep almost everything they were told secret from all but their own teachers and disciples. They would not be in much of a position to come here and open the doors to their knowledge. Look at inner alchemy and its foundational practices--there are people here who can credibly claim to have received transmission in these things, and even they never speak beyond a certain point, keeping the things they have vowed to keep secret out of the public realm. The Daoists I know who are trained in magic are even cagier about what they know than those who pursue inner alchemy. If you want insight into magic, you're going to have to get off of the internet and find a master. You are missing key points in your discussion in the last paragraph. Before anything you discuss in that paragraph, in Daoist magic there is the question of training and authority--receiving a register which gives the practitioner certain authority and the right to perform certain rituals. These things are passed down from master to disciple, ritually, in lineages. Without that, this is still just playing around willy-nilly, inventing your own things with inspiration from books derived from Daoism. You are also missing discussion of the fruits of internal training which make it possible for actual Daoist masters to directly perceive the nature of what they may encounter. Ghost, immortal, buddha, demon--there is no question. But like I said about real gaogong, this is the fruit of a decade or more of intense studying and training.

Yes, this actually should look like the simple shaking in that video, but not the later "stage 2" where the people start moving. I did not listen to the audio in that video but let me stress that this is not a kundalini practice, nor is is neigong or qigong. It is just shaking. If all of the instructions I posted are followed--especially keeping the feet flat on the ground and staying in an upright posture with little swaying--then it will not trigger spontaneous qigong (zifagong), kundalini, or anything else remotely esoteric. The instructions are simple in order to keep the result simple. Changing the mental focus or the nature of the movements may change the results, at which point we are talking about a different practice altogether. Yes, helping to circulate lymphatic fluid is quite likely a big reason this practice can be so beneficial to the immune system. As I said above that is also a reason it should not be practiced right before lying down.

Done... After two 7% craft IPAs (one of which is called "Hipsters Don't Drink IPA" ). Easy... If you know from whence the head rotation should emanate. Forget that for even a second... And indeed you will start to tilt like that tower in Italy that the ancients made in prescient anticipation of Instagram. Kinda sad I don't get to do any spanking, though. Wait a second, I have a solution... GOVERNESS, COME HITHER!

Hi Rideforever, This switchback does not really exist. The diagrams we are used to seeing from TCM that display the acupoints with lines connecting them are a relatively "late" development. As I have been told by sources I trust, they derive from the bronze dummies created for studying and testing students during the Song dynasty, "only" ~1000 years ago. In order to help students trace the acupoints related to certain meridians, lines were drawn between them. Eventually it became commonplace for people to mistakenly believe that these lines represent the meridians themselves, which they do not. I base the above paragraph, which discusses where this mistake comes from, on hearsay. This mistake might actually be older than the Song dynasty's bronze dummies. What I can say for sure, on the basis of studying the Yellow Emperor's Inner Classic, is that it is true that the lines drawn on the surface of the body on acupuncture charts and dummies do not reflect the actual pathways taken by the meridians as they were described in the fundamental writings of Chinese medicine. Those pathways are little to nothing like what one would imagine from looking at modern charts, which seem to imply qi meridians that are very linear and superficial. The Yellow Emperor's Inner Classic's descriptions are neither of those things. The meridians branch and bifurcate many a time, and they travel all over the interior of the body. The acupoints on the surface of the body, therefore, connect to or correspond with the meridians, but they do not tell us exactly where the meridians go. Thus, the appearance of a "switchback" at GB-14 is on the charts is misleading. The chapter in the Yellow Emperor's Inner Classic's that describes the pathways of the "twelve primary meridians" in great detail is called "The Essay on Meridians" and it is located in the volume of the book you could call The Numinous Pivot in English. The full name for the book, volume, and chapter in Chinese is 《黃帝内經·靈樞·經脈篇》. In pinyin that is Huangdi Neijing - Lingshu - Jingmai pian. Here is a translation. I have never read it and it is by a guy who does not practice Chinese medicine, never learned clinically, and claims never to have even received a treatment. However, he is known to be a stickler for language and a serious scholar, so it is probably a good translation. By the way, the above information implies something of a litmus test for whether or not a Chinese medicine practitioner is rooted in the classics. If this is an issue in choosing a practitioner, you can point at the charts hanging in his or her office and say, "hey, so do those lines tell me where all the qi meridians are traveling in the body?" A practitioner who studies the Yellow Emperor's Inner Classic and received training based upon its theories will know that those lines don't actually represent the meridians, they just "connect the dots" between points to help with memorization. Modern practitioners often do not know this. That is not to say that the modern approach cannot help patients--it can--but just as the ancient descriptions of the meridians contained more depth, three-dimensionality, and non-linearity, classics-based acupuncture/acupressure potentially allows for deeper healing.

Fair point. An excessive focus on nomenclature can lead to confusion if not absurdity; universal agreement on definitions will never arrive. I can see why it is a good idea to just let people call themselves what they want... up to the point where it becomes deception that harms others. An example is D.L. dudes whose wives have no idea where hubby really is on Saturday night until they finally find out and end up thoroughly disillusioned with love and possibly, if the husband did not use protection during his escapades, sick. The stakes are low when one chooses a label and definition for one's own comfort. The stakes increase tremendously when one's choice implicates others who believe it means a certain thing. Gotcha. I also did not bring this up because of the Liberace comment.

I also have a question about this, Josh. I wish to be sure though, you do literally mean to say that hundreds of people are hearing the voice of Zhuge Liang? I'd like to confirm that before I respond to anything else you've said.

Honestly, I believe with the way he presents himself on YouTube, he is claiming to be quite advanced. He might not call himself a sage outright, but... The clothes really aren't the big problem, though I made fun of them when he first showed up in a reactionary manner. The problem is when somebody who has not really received teachings takes to a high platform to hold a megaphone, as it were, and preach home-baked understandings. When one adds to this the establishment of some sort of organization devoted to the glory of a disembodied voice... complicated, complicated. At any rate, although "Lord" Josh Allen is at the center of this conversation, I am not all that concerned with how he turns out. I am not under any illusions that I am going to sway him with my message board posts, especially since he disregarded the lists of common Daoist warnings about ghosts, demons, and playing with spells that I typed up. The posts I am writing are for those newbies who know next to nothing about Daoism, but feel a draw to it and may watch Josh Allen videos and conclude, "ah, so this is what Daoism is all about." I can only use the term human wreckage to describe what I have seen of some unfortunate people who have thrown in their lot with the wrong kind of "Daoist" teacher. Such outcomes are tragic; being better informed might help some people avoid them. I do accept the possibility that Josh Allen is really being guided by an actual Daoist immortal. Such things do happen, just like some people digging in their flowerbeds unexpectedly bang their spades against nuggets of gold. Tolerance is good. I admit that I was intolerant of Josh when I made fun of him. Since talking with Steve in this thread I have been careful and have shared with him lessons repeated to me by Daoists in three different lineages in three different countries. They might not suit him and they might seem like they're intended to take the wind out of his sails... But let me tell you, having a Daoist teacher involves having a lot of wind taken out of your sails! A responsible teacher tends to hear a lot of "wow, master, yesterday I was meditating and then ________________________ happened! Amazing, right?" Then the teacher gives a bland reply like "forget it," and possibly patiently explains why such a manifestation is of little or no meaning and should definitely not be latched upon. To a beginner, this can be very disappointing! We want to be special, we felt qi, we saw a spirit, we had a prescient dream--why does the Daoist wave this all off with utter disinterest? To the student who sticks with it, the wisdom in this approach gradually becomes more and more apparent. Also, regarding nomenclature, I say this with seriousness to suggest a different viewpoint, not to take a jab at you. You have spoken about the gay community many times in this forum. That is a community that has taken nomenclature quite seriously (and rightfully so, I would add). The gay community's experience with epithets and labels can be one reminder of how important a label or name can be, and why people might find it important to seek clarity in definitions. There's actually an awful lot "in a name," even if names are "just words." Those who practice magic surely also realize this--this aspect of language is probably one of the bases for why spells can even work at all (not that I know for certain, I do not practice any magic).

Please contemplate this one for a few days. I wonder whether your conscience is trying to tell you something that has leaked into your own words. As for whether or not I stem any tide, that is not a goal of mine. I offer a differing voice, that seekers who have stumbled into this thread might hear what I was told, by those who patiently explained these things to me, regardless of what tides were swirling around them. The goal, then, is to allow people to make more informed decisions, on the basis of hearing opinions not easy to come across outside of Chinese communities, in English.

To be clear, I meant money to be spent on travel and learning a language. I've barely spent any money on Daoist teachings (martial arts and Chinese medicine were expensive to study, though, but I learned those from other people). In fact... Two of my teachers have given me money, quite a lot of it. I'm embarrassed to say that, but I add the comment to dispel any notions that one must have big money to have a teacher. Money is not necessary, because the currency of this tradition is sincerity.

Many communities (I'm guessing Sedona being at the top of the list ), perhaps, but typically not Daoist ones. The analogy about Judaism isn't meant to be perfect, just to illustrate a point. I'll try to find better ones. Sure, if we can transcend the later heaven, duality-driven existence of mundane humans, it seems likely we will also transcend conventional boundaries. That is if, and when. Till that glorious day, identities do serve a purpose in this realm, which any encounter with the TSA or border agents is a reminder of. Good question. The answer is transmission of the teachings from one generation to the next. That is a huge, important point. So: Saying one is a Daoist, in the sense of the various Chinese words that become this English word, indicates that one has been accepted by an elder in the previous generation and taught by that elder. But why is it a "huge, important point" in this day and age when we have so many wonderful books, YouTube teachers, podcasts, and forums where we can study Daoism openly and for free without going through the trouble of an initiation, something that might just be the leftover dregs of Chinese civilization anyway, and therefore irrelevant or even antithetical to "the Way?" That would be another good question, and also one with an answer. The answer is: despite the current proliferation of "open" resources, quite amazingly, the inner teachings of Daoism do indeed still remain "inner," by which I mean well guarded secrets. Even Chinese language sources do not spill the beans, and far less does what you can find in English. It is still in this day imperative to have a real teacher to reveal the teachings which are designed to help a student find Dao. If this comment makes no sense, then I can only shrug and presume you've not likely glimpsed what remains kept behind closed doors. Perhaps someday. So yes, "Daoist" is an identity, sure--one that signifies where its holder stands with regards a body of teachings. While merely saying "Daoist" cannot tell you how experienced and accomplished a person is, it does tell you the person has walked through one or more of certain doors. Thus, this is not really an identity in the sense of "I feel like I've lived here long enough that the city is a part of me, now I'm a New Yorker" or "my parents had me baptized when I was an infant so I'm Christian" or "I really like Star Wars so I wear a cloak for fun and say I follow the Jedi code" or "I feel a certain way about my sexuality/gender/race/ethnicity/age/generation/etc, so this or that label fits me best." It's more like an identity in the sense of "I matriculated at Yale, therefore I'm a Yaley." You can't just feel like a Yaley if the school never let you in, and even that's not enough--you have to go. Luckily, finding a teacher in Daoism does not require $40,000 of tuition a year and great SAT scores (or the last name Bush). But it still takes hard work for most people. Sadly, many people do not understand this or cannot accept this for whatever reason. Therefore they miss out on things they could have learned if they found the door and then asked to enter it. Moreover, if they make a loud enough racket, they potentially confuse a great many people, like Castaneda, Tuesday Lobsang Tampa, Osho, and too many other people with the gift of gab to name (including many YouTube meditation "masters" currently plying their trade). This is why my analogy, if you read carefully, is about rabbis, not Jews. Rabbis don't merely have a certain religious identity, they are accepted into a long lineage of teachers and given tasks and responsibilities. This confusion really does not exist in China and Taiwan and one does not hear this conversation being chewed over time and time again. Perhaps confusion is more common here because westerners are not so used to initiatory rites. Another way to think about this, then, is by comparing it to Freemasonry. Nobody says "I feel like I am a Freemason, therefore I am" or "the ghost of Thomas Jefferson told me I am a Freemason, so I am." Most of us know as little of Freemasonry as we do of Daoism, but the need to be initiated in order to qualify as a Mason is well understood by almost everybody in the west. Similarly, the need to be initiated by a master in order to become a Daoist is common knowledge in China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other Chinese communities.

Aye, indeed, a man so willing could sustain a life of seeking the Dao for quite some time if he sold his Jaguar. And, and...What was it he said? Ah yes. "We haven't even touched on the Lexus yet!" Thaaat was it. Awesome.

Lol, it ain't me, the God of the Dozens whispers little flames in my ears... P.S., I apologize for the visual. You'll never look at a microwave the same way again 😂

Exactly. The Han-chauvinist racist element ChiDickdrip's agenda is informed by is among its most repugnant aspects. This fool actually believes that the color of his skin and his native language qualify him as an expert in fields he has never really studied. Like all race-based notions, the basis of this is stupidity and delusion. The result is a steady stream of lies. A pity that this banned member did not spend the last six years learning anything new, and is instead returned here to press repeat. Like a putting a piece of cold poop in the microwave to warm it up and call it dinner.

Have you looked? I don't mean just online--have you sought such people out in person? Wandering has always been an integral part of the Daoist path, necessitated by the simple fact that few if any people are so lucky as to live next door to a master who can teach every last thing that the student needs to know. One of the meanings of the term 方士, for example (a word which is usually associated with "red hat" masters of magical skills) refers to the wandering seeker of Daoist teachings, with "方" in this context referring to the many directions of the compass, and the wanderer's willingness to exhaust all of them in order to find masters who can give him or her authentic instructions. If you are learning Chinese maybe you could try translating the definition in that link. So far, so good. I see. So, did the being you speak to tell you that you are a Daoist and tell you to call yourself one? Perhaps the word "cult" is extreme, but again, I use it in the neutral sense given what little I know of you. But I disagree that this is so plain as "simply admiring the man's legacy, ensuring that it does not fade into obscurity." One could easily create videos, articles, websites, and so forth about Zhuge Liang without publicly declaring oneself to be a "chosen one" of sorts who has been singled out to be directed through life and taught by this long-dead-but-amazing man. Not only do you present a story in which you are a/the chosen one of this spirit, you also talk effusively and extensively about how this relationship has resulted in you having magical powers--specifically, the power to control weather. In fact, to anybody who accepts your story at face value and gets involved with what you are doing, "hierarchy of power" exists de facto, and your stories and videos that place you at the center of the story and place your magic powers upon a pedestal of sorts serve to reinforce this hierarchy. Of course, just because something exists de facto does not mean all or even most people will notice it... It seems that a deal was sealed. @Zhongyongdaoist, what do the teachings you have received say about deals of this kind? I have been warned extremely sternly by Daoists about making deals with disembodied voices. Then why do you call yourself a Daoist? Great worldly accomplishments (up to and including tremendous magic powers) and being remembered for a long time are not synonymous with achievement Daoism. If we take it on face value that Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a historical document (which I do not believe anybody in China does--it is always referred to as a 小説/xiaoshuo, or novel), we still do not know whether or not he became 仙. And even if he did, we do not know if what is talking to you is indeed Zhuge Liang, and not something else. You also seem not to be aware that countless texts and countless living teachers make a very clear distinction between actually cultivating Dao and the cultivation of 術/shu or "techniques," which include weather magic. Indeed, some Daoists learn shu on purpose, some develop them as a natural side effect of cultivating Dao, and many start out aspiring to be Daoists and instead end up forgetting about the Dao and getting lost in the colorful and distracting world of shu. If you ever take it upon yourself to seek out living Daoist masters, you will probably hear discussion of the difference between 道 and 術 sooner than later. This stuff is fundamental, indispensable, and constantly hammered home. Finally, being remembered for thousands of years is not only not a marker of achievement in Daoism, quite to the contrary, many Daoists opt for obscurity. This spirit is often expressed using the term "不留痕跡." One teacher of mine refuses to even be photographed, does not allow his students to thank him even in the acknowledgment sections of books, has no website or ads, dresses like a boring uncle, etc. I also hear all kinds of stories (and have personally witnessed or lived through a fair amount of them), and indeed yours is fairly par for the course. When I brought up the rabbi in my analogy, my point was not about the far-out-ness of such a possibility. My point was that no matter how great the long-dead Israeli spirit this hypothetical fellow talks to, his experience would not change the fact that becoming a Jewish rabbi in the human realm still requires passing through many steps of initiation that must be orchestrated by living human beings in the Jewish tradition. Daoism is much the same. You can't just wake up one day and say you are a Daoist in the same way you can wake up one day and decide to declare faith in the Five Pillars of Islam. Then why did you have to make the deal that you described above? You wrote: "He would teach me and guide me, in return I would spread his name to everyone I would come across." I am glad you feel happy and free after a period of grimness. But, Be cautious of bliss. I suggest you read Freeform's posts. You can find them easily in Google by pasting the following into the search bar: site:www.thedaobums.com "freeform" "bliss" I am not talking about historians and other sinophiles. I am talking about actual Daoists, and I am less focused upon your clothing than your claim to be a Daoist. I think you can understand how Jews would call it "appropriation" if you said that you were a rabbi, right? Historians of Israeli history might be amused by the hypothetical "rabbi" I keep mentioning, but actual Jewish rabbis? What do you think? Since we're on the topic, as to your clothing, there is one photo you posted in this thread where you adorn your head with what appears similar to a Zhengyi daozhang's lotus crown. Is that what that is meant to be? Please note that that is something that is only to be worn by daozhang who have risen to this rank after undergoing long apprenticeship as daoshi. It is only worn at certain points during specific rituals.

Bam! Twenty dollars!

Hi Josh, I took the time to listen to your story from start to finish. I also read everything else you wrote in this thread. I appreciate your good humor and candor. I think there are some things that need to be said, though. I am glad that you freely admit to not having availed yourself of the opportunity to seek out living Daoist teachers, to ask them to teach you, and to possibly put their teachings into practice. I hope you will understand, however, that if you have not done these things that it is not really accurate to call yourself a Daoist. Regardless of whether one uses "Daoism" to refer to 道家 or 道教 (and regardless of what one thinks the relationship between those two words is), it is hard to deny that this is not a convert seeking tradition. Furthermore, entry into the "doors" of Daoism has always been done through teachers, and entry is not an ambiguous process. If one has established a teacher-student or teacher-disciple relationship with an elder in Daoism, this is generally quite a formal thing. Given your interest in rituals and ceremonies, it probably should not surprise you that entry into Daoism more often than not involves a rite--perhaps a simple one, perhaps a complex one, but always significant one. Using analogies that might make a bit of sense to a person who has only lived in the western cultural milieu, this is a bit like joining Judaism. Judaism does not offer mass conversions like some Christian churches do, nor does it allow you to join by doing something as simple as some schools of Islam require--merely affirming that you have full faith in the "Five Pillars of Islam." In a close friend's synagogue, his rabbi typically turns away people who wish to become Jews at least three times before he will even consider whether or not he would accept them as converts. If (and this is very rare) the person persists in seeking to become a Jew and the rabbi decides to convert the person, conversion is not a simple matter like a baptism. It requires a significant period of study followed by ritualized formal acceptance. My good friend's wife went through this process and it took a few years to go from start to finish. While Daoism is very different from Judaism and (like Judaism and most other ancient traditions) has numerous disparate "sects," a long period of interaction between student and teacher before formal initiation into Daoism is common to all of those schools, unless they have become corrupted (as with the many dubious places in China that will sell you Zhengyi registers and the like). The Judaism-Daoism analogy only goes so far though, because Judaism is a religion with a small group of clergy and large group of laity, whereas Daoism, while it has always served communities who of course "believe" in the Daoists, does not really have such thing a "flock" of "believers." In this way Daoism is very unlike Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. There are lay Daoists, but even they go through rituals and traditionally spend a significant amount of time observing and being observed by their teachers (this includes study and practice, too) before there is a formal initiation. Now, it is interesting that you have studied some books about Daoist magic and, possibly, have developed some abilities on that basis (frankly, the one video of your weather magic that I watched looked a lot more like some pretty low-brow editing tricks, cutting between images of you pacing around with a sword and scenes of roiling clouds... but... it's not impossible that you've figured something out...). Well, does developing abilities on the basis of a book that is associated with Daoism make one a Daoist? No. Here's another analogy: a fellow could study karate manuals for several years and develop his own ways of training on the basis of those manuals, much as you said that you studied weather magic books and developed your own rituals. The guy who studied karate manuals, if he trained hard enough, might even become better at fighting than most people, even though he never met a single actual karate master. So, he could end up winning a few real fights, thanks to having thrown hundreds of thousands of practice punches he learned from the manual. But would that make him a real student of karate? Not really. There is much more to karate than one can be captured in books, and those things need to be encountered in person, in a dojo or wherever a master teaches, with a real sensei. Otherwise, all we're talking about a novel form of fighting that was based on a book, not karate itself. This problem is only the tip of the iceberg, though. I understand from your video that since you were in your boyhood or early teens a voice has been speaking to you, it tells you that it is Zhuge Liang, it has taught you some things and directed you to do certain things, and you believe it is Zhuge Liang. That is an interesting claim, and not that far from the sort of thing that one hears quite often if one spends time around Daoist teachers. Daoism has much to say about "teachers" of the sort you say you have. In a nutshell, usually what Daoist teachers offer when stories like this come along is a burst bubble. Certainly there are many people on earth who hear a voice or voices like you did/do. Daoism recognizes that sometimes when this happens, the person is lying, delusional, or has gone mad. But sometimes there really is a voice coming from some kind of a disembodied "life form." Here are some of the many possible reasons Daoist teachers and friends of mine have discussed: The person is being helped be the ghost of a dead cultivator who advanced far enough in life to become something of a powerful and neutral or benevolent ghost, which finds itself "trapped" in an intermediate state, unable to advance without obtaining a new body, and lacking the merit required to obtain one. This being therefore finds an appropriate human or humans to help, doing good deeds such as helping healers to heal their patients or helping fortune tellers to give more accurate readings. Sometimes the human knows he or she is being helped (as when a voice can be heard), and sometimes the human is not clear about this, and is just good at something without knowing why; however, those with open third eyes may see what is really happening. This is not a terrible situation to be in, but it becomes a major pitfall when the human involved mistakes this sort of relationship for actually "cultivating the Dao," and/or becomes attached to the benefits such a relationship creates, and/or becomes drunk on this relationship and unwittingly steps onto the path of a fraud. The person is being pranked by a mischievous ghost who is getting thrills of some sort from this relationship. The person has a deep desire for something like power, influence, fame, uniqueness, escape, or ability (including a benevolent ability like healing) and unwittingly invites a disembodied being into his/her life and develops a symbiotic relationship with that being (this relationship could have started in a previous life and may be the fault of family rather than individual karma). Illness, drug abuse, weak constitution, mental illness/disturbance, being unlucky and being at the wrong place at the wrong time, black magic, or occult dabbling unwittingly invites a disembodied being into his/her life and develops a symbiotic relationship with that being (this relationship could have started in a previous life and may be the fault of family family rather than individual karma). The person is being used by a malevolent ghost with some power or a demon in order to further that being's agenda on earth. That powerful ghost or demon may have the ability to masquerade as a seemingly-benevolent figure and may be able to grant quite a bit of power, knowledge, and special abilities to the recipient of its help. In such a situation the price that is paid in the end by the human who is used is said to be extremely high. The person is actually being guided by a highly realized being, such as an immortal, buddha, or bodhisattva. This is profoundly rare. It is generally not safe to assume that one has been blessed in such a way. I do not even know if Zhuge Liang, whatever his accomplishments in the earthly realm actually were (remember that the Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a novel that scholars say lumped various legends and stories into Zhuge Liang character's story), is recognized as having reached immortality. This is a question that a quite highly achieved master might address. But you're likely to have to do a lot of wandering and seeking before you encounter anybody capable of lending insight into these matters, and those with such insights tend to divulge minimal information and instead give their students simple instructions and push them towards sobriety and simplicity... With the above, I hope to relay the sense that, way more often than not, if one goes to a real Daoist master and says "I am hearing a voice that teaches me things, I think it might be this-or-that highly realized being," the Daoist master does not reply with, "why, you're right!" And thank goodness for this! The consequences for the above scenarios can range all the way from simple wasted time that might've been used on actual cultivation, all the way up to truly hellish outcomes. If one has a deep affinity for Daoism and wishes to learn what it has to teach, then one may have the opportunity of avoiding many pitfalls. But this, of course, requires actually going and looking for a teacher, not declaring oneself to be a Daoist without having ever met a master, much less been taught and initiated into a school or lineage. Another major issue you raise with what you have shared here relates to the possible consequences of playing with magic without proper training, as you are likely doing (unless you are extremely blessed and Zhuge Liang is a Daoist immortal and is really teaching you). Daoist teachers have many warnings about such things. They include: The dangers of unintended spiritual consequences, for performing magic that influences beings who one is not qualified to influence and draws their ire, resulting in a rebuke or rebukes. The dangers of exhausting one's three treasures of jing, qi, and shen as well as one's ling by engaging in magic, which likely draws upon these resources quite heavily; without having been trained in the ways of replenishing and building these resources, one undermines one's ming and gradually deadens one's spirit. The dangers of karmic consequences. For example, I mentioned your posts on the phone to an English friend and he laughed aloud, joking of course, saying that if you've caused the flooding and storm England has had in recent years, then there will be hell to pay. He spoke in jest, but he points towards something Daoists consider real. The dangers of receiving a heavenly rebuke and/or heavy negative karma if in fact you have stumbled upon real teachings and, because of your YouTube activities and the like, they fall into the hands of people who misuse them. Regarding the first four in that list above (and some of the points in the list higher up), Daoists will add the additional warning that one often does not know what one "has coming" until one reaches a later stage in life, when the natural process of aging leaves you with weak, deficient qi. In a young or middle-aged person, naturally strong qi provides a certain amount of defense for a human being, which can keep ghosts and weaker spirits from being able to exact revenge, and which masks the cumulative effects of excessively using one's three treasures to fiddle around with magic. After a serious illness or simply after becoming old, one's qi is no longer able to keep the consequences at bay, and ill fortune befalls a person. One of the sad results for these things is dying an unfortunate, tormented death. Then there are of course warnings about what comes after that tormented death. Chinese Daoists I have known usually call this "不得善終," or "not meeting a good end." I have been sternly warned about some people who were trying to do good in life but were not trained properly or unwittingly violated spiritual principles (including acupuncturists and exorcists) and died terrible deaths as a result, when their qi was used up and could no longer protect them. I cannot diagnose your situation. I simply lack the ability. But I strongly recommend that if you have a strong affinity for Daoism you consider whether or not it would serve you to find a highly experienced, wise, capable teacher who could help you sort through your unique experiences, possibly guide you in viewing them through the lens and in the context of Daoist teachings (if you believe you have a strong affinity for Daoism), and possibly guide you in your cultivation henceforth, if you decide to become a Daoist and have the opportunity to do so. I have two other things to bring to your attention. First, it is cool that you embrace eccentricity. I'm not sorry for clowning you (sorry, man, might just be my personal baggage but anybody who needs the world to know he lives like a Cash Money Millionaire has to get pfffffffffft'ed at... maybe I should work on that, but I'm just not ready, I'll work on it when I'm rich ) but I am sorry to hear that you've faced actual violence simply because of how you dress. Evidently English Eccentricity is a time-honored tradition unto itself, and if you've found a niche you're happy in, I am happy for you. I hope you can occupy this niche in safety and among friends who understand you. That said, your eccentricity strikes me as encompassing quite a bit of cultural appropriation, even if that appropriation has at its base a sincere interest in Daoism and/or Chinese culture. I suggest considering whether your "I do whatever I want, I don't care what the world thinks, you can judge me as much as you like but I'm just gonna do my thing" attitude does not contain elements that actually disrespect the very tradition you're enamored with and claiming to be a member of. "Tuesday Lobsang Rampa" aka Cyril Hoskin may have been an English Eccentric and a very nice guy who sincerely believed that he was occupied by a Tibetan master's soul, but he ultimately did not help those who were looking for authentic Tibetan Buddhist teachings. He also wasted time writing fiction books that he might have better used actually learning Buddhism, although in his day opportunities were much rarer than they are now. (Also, as an aside, returning to the warnings about beings occupying bodies of people, you might want to look at that link and take note of a similarity in the circumstances you narrate on YouTube--including deep dissatisfaction in life--and aspects of Cyril Hoskin's story, which, if not just imagination, sounds like possession). If what I'm saying doesn't make sense, then I ask, would you not find it a bit off if a neighbor of yours started to declare he was a Jewish rabbi because he had a voice that claimed to be an ancient Israeli magician and military strategist speaking to him? Or a Shotokan karate black belt because he did the punches and kicks in a karate book and managed to win some fights? The other comment relates to your statement to Flowing Hands that you have no "pai" or lineage." There is something a bit disingenuous to me in that response, as in fact you end your YouTube monologue by talking about how you have started some kind of institution to glorify the spirit of Zhuge Liang and his teachings. Now, I would not call that a Daoist school for reasons that should be clear, but I think you need to admit that you are starting something that aspires to be one. I would call it a "folk cult devoted to Zhuge Liang" (I use "cult" in the neutral sense for now). Paraphrasing, you say in your video that you are not establishing this organization for yourself, but entirely for the glory of Zhuge Liang. And that may be the case, but time will tell. Few religious groups that go awry are started by founders who don't claim to be starting their groups for the "greater glory." In any event, as far as I can tell you do have a "pai"--the one you yourself founded. I guess there is a small-but-real possibility that everything you are involved with is exactly what you say it is and is a wondrous example of a Daoist immortal who has found a worthy disciple on earth who is on the cusp of doing wonderful things for humanity. But if there is any chance that is not what is happening, I hope people who are interested in your claims will return to the first bullet list above and ask what kind of spirit needs a young human to help him establish a cult on earth. All of these things (aside from cultural appropriation) reflect issues Daoist teachers and friends have discussed with me in seriousness over the years. I hope you will give them some thought.

I don't think there is anything to apologize for. Thank you for taking the time to share a bit of your story. I see. I have bolded the points I hope that he will read from your assessment. I don't share your hopes, but I hope you are right and I am wrong. @ReturnDragon, please take note of what even a person who is quite fond of you thinks about your ideas about Daoism. I was certainly not respectful of Josh, but I think he knows (or ought to know) that he was playing a certain gloating game here, and I played back with a roasting game--I think some roasting is fine, provided it doesn't descend into threats or hate speech such as with attacks on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. By that same token, I think gloating is fine, so long as the person trying to floss can take a bit of playa hating (which, to Josh's credit, he did very well ). I know that many others don't feel the same way about insults. I accept criticism and won't try to convince you that my behavior was correct, but I will say in all honesty that I am presently comfortable with my own behavior in this thread (perhaps in time I will come to conclude that I am presently wrong, that I can't say). I will write to Josh in a moment more respectfully, though. Good idea. I will do that in a moment. The feeling is mutual, thank you as well.