Walker

謬種. Falsehood. 炁 does not mean what this deluded man says it does. It is a reference to so-called pre-heaven qi. It is not something that can be said to be located in the human body or any other place, and it has nothing to do with being touched by fire, or not. He has merely looked at two radicals in the Chinese character and invented a definition. To anybody who hopes to cultivate, this is dangerous foolishness. He might want to be your internet friend. But that doesn't mean he has your best interests in mind.

I'd probably apply for a government job.

Ah, interesting, I will have to ask one of my teachers about the difference between a rainbow and a flash! This may explain why he has said that although Padmasambhava went all the way, other later Tibetan masters who have achieved rainbow body are not fully free. I didn't understand that before. 30,000 years is interesting for rainbow body. I've been told it's about 3,000 for simply creating a yangshen that leaves a corpse. These accomplishments are nothing to shake a stick at! But it doesn't take long in Daoism to see why this is a relatively tiny tradition when it comes to "world religions." Even mastering extremely basic Daoist teachings is tough. This stuff? Well, one step at a time... Such a nourishing morsel for thought, a rare delicacy in a world where so many who haven't even yet reached the pitfall stage you just described are already oh-so eager to begin their teaching and establish their schools.

I have encountered Daoist teachers who say that there are differences between 仙 and 佛. I have encountered more Daoist teachers who hold that they are the same. In the case of those who say that there are fundamental differences between 仙 and 佛, they emphasize that both are exalted, permanent conclusions to cultivation paths, beyond any and all concepts that mortals' theories could express. Personally, I profess no understanding of what buddhahood entails. I am only attempting to report on theoretical teachings I've been exposed to. Such teachings are at once indispensable as well as vacuous. They are important for practitioners to study, but no substitute for practice, much less its actual fruits.

Many Daoists would disagree with this statement, and say an awakening to reality is little more than a taste of one's potential if it is not embodied. It is taught that special powers are indeed not needed or required to have a taste of one's nature. But to use your wood-door analogy, a Daoist might say that a door realizing that it is entirely made of wood does not mean that it will turn back into a tree again, much less return to the state of a sapling, seed, or what it was before there was even any seed; much, much less will it be free to be any of these things in response to circumstances, or nothing at all. You might say that the point of inner alchemy and its discussion of embodiment is to go from being the door that realizes that it is made of wood (albeit dry, dead, and heavily conditioned wood buried under a thick layer of paint and firmly affixed to its frame) to being Laozi's "uncarved block" or Zhuangzi's "useless tree" that wasn't even cut down, and beyond even that, to be transcend any and all concepts and analogies we might play with here, including the concept of transcendence itself. To Daoists with a predilection for these types of teachings and the practices that, perhaps, lead to the goals we're talking about, simply realizing what one is, while a great accomplishment, is like obtaining a key. It might take one through the next door, but much remains to be "not done" if one enters that door. As for whether or not the "shift in perspective," as you put it, is permanent, to be certain there are Daoist teachers who will state that it is not, unless you totally complete xing-ming cultivation. In some esoteric teachings, it is even said that successfully creating a yangshen and having one's yuanshen ascend with it upon death of the physical body is only a temporary release; eventually the yuanshen will have to return to earth or a place like it to continue to practice with a body, until the body is--(how to put it?)--resolved. As for realization without even the creation of yangshen, then this is said to lead to a sort of extremely-long-lasting enlightened ghost state. It is taught in some schools that, for a practitioner who is practicing alchemy, even something like passing away in seated meditation and leaving a corpse that does not rot is not considered a particularly high achievement. The only sign of success for those who ascribe to these teachings is turning into non-existence when leaving the world, which is akin to the sort of achievement called "light body" or "rainbow body," such as was achieved in Vajrayana Buddhism by Padmasambhava and, it is recorded, masters of other traditions such as those in India and--rumor has it--Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Returning to the question of "special powers," upon such a path these things are neither specifically sought nor specifically eschewed with. They are, to one who is cultivating xing and ming, things that occur naturally, because it is the nature of the Dao and the human body for these things to occur during cultivation, all the way up through and including the ultimate resolution of one's being. To be certain one could get "distracted" by them, and that is one reason ming teachings are kept secret. But the potential for this distraction cannot lead to an intentional eschewing of "special powers," as that would be like poking out your eyes, which naturally occur as a part of a healthy human body, because staring at pretty things can be distracting. (To be clear, though, there is a difference in Daoism between "special powers" which arise naturally, and those which are sought and specifically cultivated. There are much firmer warnings about the latter category, and even teachers who emphatically state that specific training for any type of special ability is already something other than cultivating Dao) Eventually, though, the door is removed from its frame, scrapped, perhaps turned into a coffee table and then wood chips and then dust and finally less than dust, its components scattered to the four winds. Its ming is gone, and paraphrasing what Freeform said above, ming is a bit like the platform for xing in Daoist alchemical teachings. Needing this platform, the yuanshen will have to return to continue cultivating. I understand that people might reject this as a false teaching, but this kind of thinking is common in many Daoist teachings, and probably worth at least entertaining for contemplation if one has enough affinity with Daoism to be participating in a discussion like this. These are interesting teachings but to be honest I have not heard the handful of Daoists I have studied with teach about them or place emphasis on anything similar. A Daoist grand-teacher of mine (I have not personally met him, although he is still alive) has discussed this. He calls this the realization of the 法身/fashen or "Dharma body," a term that comes to Chinese from Buddhism. It is, to be certain, a marvelous accomplishment for any human to realize. But it is not synonymous with the creation of the yangshen or the total resolution of xing and ming. Therefore, it is not considered an ultimate or permanent state, for a Daoist. Another Daoist grand-teacher of mine (who I did meet, although he has been gone for several years) addressed this, stating that this is something fundamental that separates buddhas from immortals; thus what you discuss is indeed a permanent state, called buddhahood, but not the permanent state we could call xianhood or hsienhood or "immortality." But this, to me, becomes too speculative and esoteric to warrant discussion. Again, we run the risk of being Saharan ants mapping Himalayan glaciers... Not only a waste of time in the present, but also could lead us to draw conclusions about what we think we're doing and where we think we should be going far, far too early.

Ming cultivation will exert powerful effects on the mind, certainly, because lack of clarity in the mind and the tendency of the mind to wander and be unfocused have an intimate relationship with qi. But I don't think what you're talking about here really captures the main emphases of discussions of ming gong. Those emphases involve what Freeform responded to this post with.

I think that's a great post. It's my instinct to add something regarding the line I put in bold. I feel that while a basic medical definition of, say, type-1 diabetes is written in such a way as to make it possible for medical students and professionals to formulate diagnostics and methods to deal with an entire population of patients whose health is suffering in a similar way, such definitions don't and really can't take any "hidden" factors into account (i.e., the "causal" factors Freeform mentions in the final paragraph). Point being, if somebody with type-1 diabetes, hypothyroidism, or any other chronic, congenital condition really and truly encounters a teacher who will transmit the immortal method, then this person's ming, karma, fortune, and fate are already extremely special. If one who is ill has a truly qualified teacher who decides to transmit the methods, then, by all means, one would be wise to try to find the time, will, and energy to practice. One never knows what might occur--that's part of the reason there's so much truth to the last two sentences in Freeform's post. Speaking of all of this reminds me of a Chinese saying, "命大." (ming da) Whenever a person survives a life-threatening illness or accident, it is common to hear people say to them, "嚯，你的命很大," or "whoa, you've got a huge ming," implying that this person's ming helped propel them through a perilous period, and implying that this person still has important things left to do on this earth, in this life, before dying. That is, of course, just a folk saying... But folk sayings often contain a lot of wisdom.

Serious question, though... Am I right in thinking you're a disciple in a lineage in Tibetan Buddhism? Since I saw you welcoming ChiDragon back, I could not help but wonder whether you would not have a somewhat (or significantly) more cautious attitude if people like him and "Lord" Josh were showing up here as self-declared masters of Dzogchen and Mahamudra, complete with (like with ChiDragon) a curriculum based on Baidu searches or (like with Josh Allen) a ngakpa's robes or a Karmapa's Black Crown, bought off of Amazon or TaoBao. Tibetan Buddhism takes transmission, empowerment, and lineage extremely seriously. So does Daoism. Would you be cool with it if a self-[taught/deluded] Lord Jane Doe came here with videos waving a sci-fi sword at the sky claiming to be a "Tibetan Buddhist" who is versed the cycle of teachings Ngakpa Yeshe Dorje apparently was? (Btw, ummmmm, bragging about having cars, private drivers, and thrones (lol) is definitely bragging. That's cool, though, players gonna play, haters gonna hate. I appreciate that Josh has a sense of good humor along with his braggadocio and passion for sartorial pomp.)

Uh-huh. And bragging about how many fancy cars one's rich family owns and having a private driver is not at all like online forum penii measuring

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that! You should catch up on what Earl Grey just mentioned. Don't nobody care about your handmedown cars and TaoBao furniture, trustafarian. We're on some next level shit here. Let me ask you: do you have big juicy blond astral titties? Cause you're going to need to have at least three of them on some Total Recall shit to raise any eyebrows here. Since you're into automobiles, perhaps you can candy paint your imaginary astral nipples before you visit anybody in the night, that'll get you some attention. Why, you'll have a cult all your own in no time!

Sorry to disappoint you, honey shnuggums, but Mak Tin Si already popped everybody's flamboyant home-baked fake Daoism weirdness cherry 10 years ago here. It was a bloody mess but we healed. At this point I'm afraid you're just another bozo in a long and endless line of TDB bozos. I'm sure you raise eyebrows at the local Tesco, but we're kinda jaded here.

Good god. Pimp Don Magic(k) Juan had a baby with a white lady and it inherited his circa 1999 wardrobe rejects, a $3,000 Pier 1 gift card, and a JAJ book. Chuuch. Praise the "lord." Governess! I'm thirsty, bring me my mikk and cookies!

By this standard you never fail. Hey, Lorrrrdddd I Have A Private Driver and Never Eat Unless I Am Suckling the Milk of my Governess Joshua: Me and my occultist friend just simultaneously sharted onto a pentagram-shaped map of England, preventing a volcano from erupting under your daddy's car. You can thank me later!

Nothing! But don't post photos of yourself looking like the P.U.A. douche bag that the Cat in the Hat dragged in one day, and the cosplay chimera that emerged after Raiden fucked Zoolander the next... Unless... You want to get our fashion tips re: the booty face ass face warlock wardrobe you bought on TaoBao (by the way, we don't charge for this service, don't worry, it's freeeeeee!).

Word up. Howzabout this: You, being from a family rich enough that your parents trust you to drive their car, can evidently afford a plane ticket to Aus, no problem. So, you go there, and @Nungali (sorry to volunteer you, mate) can help find a nice spot where nobody will object to you setting up your altar and donning your costume (I am pretty sure Nungali knows most of the "weirdos welcome" grassy knolls in Oz). You put out the forest fires, and I will personally lead a fund raising drive on this site to reimburse your plane ticket and I will also try my best to browbeat people into not making fun of you.

Oh heyell the fuck naw. Napoleon Dynamite up in this. Can't even imagine where this thread is gonna go...

Certainly what Daoism calls the yuanshen is not the same as a "karmic body," nor is it free of the karma we humans carry with our bodies. If buddhanature did not come with you into this incarnation, how would you then be a buddha? I hope these sentences appear muddled and unclear. They should. Who, standing in the shoes of a mortal with no direct experience of these things, could hope to pry them apart using the flimsy tweezers of acquired knowledge, language, and thought? There is a certain point at which theory loses its value, important though it may be. Not saying you won't get a better answer from somebody else here, but there are far better things than good answers, and ants in the Sahara have better things to do than map the glaciers of Mt. Everest.

As I understand these terms, "congenital nature" probably refers to two words which are generally more or less synonymous in Daoist inner alchemy: 本性/benxing (akin to "basic nature" or "fundamental nature") 元神/yuanshen ("original spirit" or "primordial spirit") The above two terms refer something that all people have, always. However, in the vast, vast majority of us they are obscured and effectively lost. They are akin to the Buddhist ideas of "buddhanature" (佛性/foxing) and "original face" (本來面目/benlai mianmu). Yangshen (陽神), on the other hand, is a result of successful inner alchemy cultivation up to a certain stage. It is a high stage, far beyond what most cultivators will ever achieve, but it is not the final stage, as the creation of the yangshen is only a start of a new process, which may be different in different schools. This is not something I have any personal experience in. The only thing I wish to say here is that you cannot fool yourself as to whether or not you have reached this stage. The yangshen is not merely a projection of mind or qi. Though it can, it is said, alternate between form and formlessness, when it takes form, it truly has form. In addition, in order for it to leave the body, significant, can't-be-faked changes in the body's structure must take place first. (These points differentiate yangshen from yinshen, which does not have form and does not need the physical body to change in order to leave it; in inner alchemy it is not considered a high accomplishment--or even a good idea, generally speaking--to project the yinshen out of the body). Strictly speaking, if we look at the meaning of the word "congenital," we can see that "congenital nature" could be used to translate another Chinese term, 稟性/bingxing, which is used by some cultivators to describe the acquired personality traits, tendencies, potentials, and even karmic burdens that come with people into the world from their past lives. One often hears parents describe how their infant children began to show remarkable differences in their personalities a very short time after birth. The concept of 稟性 is a possible explanation for why even a child only a few months old already seems to have something of a personality in place.

There is a response to this perennial question in the fourth chapter of the 《文始真經》, which comes in the following two lines: 關尹子曰：「人之厭生死、超生死者，皆是大患也。譬如化人，若有厭生死心、超生死心，止名為妖，不名為道。」 Guanyinzi said: "Humans' aversion to life and death, [or hope of] transcendence of life and death, both are great afflictions. For instance, when ["transforming," implying teaching] people, if [a teacher] is of a mind averse to life and death, or of a mind to transcend life and death, this can only be called demonic, this is not called Dao." and 關尹子曰：「計生死者，或曰死已、有；或曰死已、無；或曰死已、亦有亦無；或曰死已、不有不無；或曰當幸者；或曰當懼者；或曰當任者；或曰當超者。愈變識情，馳鶩不已。殊不知我之生死，如馬之手，如牛之翼，本無有，復無無。譬如水火，雖犯水火，不能燒之，不能溺之。」 Guanyinzi said: "When discussing life and death, some say after death there is existence; some say after death there is no existence; some say after death there is both existence and no existence; some say after death there is no existence and no non existence; some say [death] should be celebrated; some say [death] should be feared; some say death should be accepted; some say death should be overcome. The more these ideas and emotions change, the [more] one gallops off in seeking. [People] simply do not understand that their own life and death are like hands on a horse or wings on a cow, fundamentally they don't exist, nor do they not not exist. For instance, with water and fire, though you may attack water [with water] and fire [with fire], [fire] cannot burn fire, and [water] cannot drown water." Something to meditate upon.

Nothing short of... marvelous

I read a couple of his books about 12 or 13 years ago. He never claimed to be a Daoist or an adept in a lineage with neigong teachings. He said he had a spontaneous enlightenment experience in India after spending some time with the other famous Krishnamutri. This spontaneous process induced pronounced physical changes, including temporary but pronounced color changes on his skin over the location of some of the chakras and some spontaneous movements that reminded him more of taijiquan than Indian yoga. I don't think he kept doing those movements once this spontaneous transformation process was finished, though.

It takes a particularly depraved soul to come to the internet and council people not to read the classics of a tradition he has only encountered through Baidu searches. I will offer a counterpoint: Indeed Daoist teachers often advise students not to attempt to practice directly on the basis of neidan books; they also often remind students that it can be difficult if not impossible to understand what they are describing if one has not been given an oral explanation and practical instruction. However, I have never seen a Daoist advise people to stay away from these books. In fact, it seems to be understood that even if a beginning student is incapable of understanding their cryptic, abstruse contents, if a student is drawn to these books then it indicates there is quite a bit of predestined affinity (緣分/yuanfen) exerting an influence in this student's life, and there is no reason to stand in the way of that, because who knows where it could lead. And in fact, the response a student has to a seemingly-impenetrable book can be nothing short of... marvelous. ShitDragon, stop lying to people. 每一開口，你就是造孽；每一開口，你就是褻瀆。戒之！當妖或當人，惟你可選！

Hi Klinsly, I am sorry to give what may sound like a cop-out or lazy answer, but Earl Grey is right; it would be advisable to seek out the advice of a professional you can interact with in person. There are simply too many possible causes for a diagnosis to be offered online, unless you happen to be speaking with the extremely rare healer who is capable of making accurate remote diagnoses (there do not seem to be any forum members who have this ability, and those who claim such things regularly seem to end up embroiled in scandal, so be cautious!). Also, if you are purposely ignoring the exuberant offers of help from the fellow whose name begins with an R, that is wise. I strongly suggest you read this warning before taking any advice from him whatsoever. He is a man who has no teachers, no real experience, and a track record of handing out demonstrably false advice that--pardon my French--he pulls out of his ass. I personally would not place my health in his hands for a million bucks.

I will go out on a limb and say that ChiDildo has never done taijiquan in his life. All he has done is danced along with some internet videos. He thinks "moving slowly while doing moves that look like they might be martial arts=taiji." Huge mistake. Too bad he is too stupid, too dishonest, and too mentally ill to wake up. All we can do is keep pointing out his errors, and pray that he goes away soon so that maybe, just maybe, just maaayyybbbee one day it will be possible to have just one conversation about these arts without it turning into an exhausting round of explaining to a deluded motherfucker with an agenda that up is up, down is down, sky is blue, water is wet. Might be too much to ask for, but then again last week I found out a guy I used to drink beers and get into trouble with made out with Scarlett Johanssen (not fucking kidding.), so... Anything is possible. Then again, if you asked me to bet, I would say the chances of me getting to play spin the bottle with Ms. Johanssen are significantly higher than the chances of ChiDandruff growing a brain and a sense of dignity.

Word to the wise: ReturnDragon aka "ChiDragon" was very active on this site until 2014. He disappeared in disgrace (I don't know if he was banned or simply had enough good sense to disappear) due to the following: In November 2013 ChiDragon shouted the following in all-caps: This statement made it clear that ChiDragon, who is semi-bilingual and positions himself on this forum as a font of Daoist knowledge, had obviously never made a serious reading of readily available Daoist writings, and clearly could not have received any sort of oral education in Daoism. For those who are new to these things, here is an analogy: not having heard of xing and ming practice in Daoism is a bit like not having heard of a concept like "communion" in Catholicism or "kosher" in Judaism. These concepts are utterly fundamental and they are widely known to people with only a cursory knowledge of Daoism. If a man who wanted to teach you about Catholicism yelled in all caps "I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF COMMUNION IN ANY CATHOLIC TEACHINGS" would you believe anything else he had to say? If the answer is that you would, well, then ChiDragon has many lies that he would love to pour into your ears. Anyway, there is a story to see here. Please note that the above exclamation was made by ChiDragon in on November 13, 2013. Not even two months later, January 2, 2014, ChiDragon wrote the following post (bold added by me): Somehow ChiDragon went from yelling about the nonexistence of this subject to acting as its representative in just seven weeks. This was merely the start of a worsening trend, probably one predicated by untreated mental illness. I feel pity for ill individuals who need treatment, but I do not think pity requires we be politely silent and watch disasters unfold (especially if that means watching the a disaster repeat itself). This disaster of lying-mixed-with-false-spiritual-teachings continued to unfold on January 2, 2014, when ChiDragon suddenly began presenting himself as a representative of Quanzhen Daoist (全真道, often called "Complete Reality Daoism") teachings. He wrote the following: "DCXM" is an acronym that ChiDragon invented during this time period. It stands for "Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming." Recall that two months prior he had "NEVER HEARD OF XING GONG OR MING GONG in any Chinese Classics." Now he was teaching it. The next day, January 3, 2014, he wrote (bold text again is my addition): Obviously, there is no way that ChiDragon could go from "I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF XING OR MING" to "following the principles of the Quanzhen Dao" in a mere seven weeks. At the time, if I recall correctly, he did not even live in China, but somewhere in the suburban or rural United States. Even if you lived on Mt. Wudang or Mt. Qincheng, you would likely not be able to find a qualified teacher who was willing to transmit introductory xing-ming cultivation instructions to you within seven weeks of meeting you, and you would not be able to tell if this teacher had given you genuine instructions or not in such a short amount of time. ChiDragon most certainly had not spent seven weeks wandering from temple to temple in the mountains of China. He had, at best, done some clicking around Baidu, before inventing his own "practice," stealing Daoist terminology, and inventing an acronym for it. So, when exactly did ChiDragon come up with the lie that is "DCXM?" It turns out he did that on November 21, 2013. That is, to be exact, not seven weeks but eight days after screaming "I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF XING OR MING." 8. Fucking. Days. On November 21, ChiDragon created a new thread entitled "Taoist Important Thoughts and Canon." In this post he literally copy-pasted blocks of text from Baidubaike, which is the online encyclopedia portion of the Chinese search engine, Baidu. It was only another week before ChiDragon began offering advise about cultivation in his thread. It started with: Egged along by some too-easily-impressed-by-a-bit-of-Chinese board members, ChiDragon continued his descent into megalomania. By November 27, 2013, somehow he had magically developed enough expertise to begin offering a detailed roadmap of what "DCXM" practice involves. He wrote: Just a month after not knowing what the words xing and ming mean, by December 11, 2013, ChiDragon had lost totally touch with reality, making statements about what an enlightened mind thinks, implying he personally understands these things. This is, speaking plainly, delusional false enlightenment psychosis. The reason I am making this post is to make sure this record stands right alongside the new offerings of "ReturnDragon." Newcomers, it would be extremely dangerous for you to follow the "Daoist" teachings of a mentally ill person like ChiDragon. It is, certainly, a tragedy that he is insane, and I would be overjoyed if he had a massive turn of fortune in this life that allows him to return to sanity. However, since that has not happened yet and he is back again giving out terrible qigong and neigong advice, I feel a harsh warning needs to be made. Here is what he wrote about the "true mind" on Dec 11: ChiDragon did not limit his campaign of lies and false teaching to the above thread. His new month-old "DCXM" obsession immediately began spilling all over the forum (he had over 7,000 posts) and soon he was using an expert's voice to make blanket pronouncements about the entire study of Daoist internal alchemy (also known as "内丹/neidan"). Nine months after "discovering" the concept of xing-ming on Baidu's encyclopedia, on August 4, 2014, he wrote: To make another analogy for newcomers, telling people that he knows what is the "best method to cultivate the 'internal [elixir]'" less than a year after screaming that he did not know about xing and ming would be like a person on a Buddhism forum telling you he knows the best way to reach enlightenment just eight months after screaming "I HAVE NEVER HEARD ABOUT THE NOBLE EIGHTFOLD PATH IN ANY BUDDHIST SUTRA." When you encounter a man like this, beware. He is on a downward spiral, and as they say, "misery loves company." He does not want to drown alone, and he is actively recruiting naive, gullible, credulous people to drag down with him. The saddest thing about such a descent is how much will and stubbornness is involved. The more you try to stop him, the more he slams his foot onto the gas pedal. Part of this illness seems to be a perverse notion that plowing ahead no matter how much other people disagree with you proves you are right. Catastrophe for such a person is not merely unavoidable; it has already arrived. I am content to finish this post with a final quote from ChiDragon which should suffice to make it extremely clear just how deluded and (to a practitioner who follows any of his advice) dangerous he is. On August 4, 2014 he declared himself to be a realized being. He wrote: Self-deception that has reached stratospheric levels is merely a pity. Stratospheric self-deception that attempts to blaze like a sun and redefine clearly established facts in order to aggrandize a malignant-tumor-like ego and create a following is something for which the word "crime" is probably not too light. In conclusion: A self-declared realized being now using the name "ReturnDragon" has returned to the forum promulgate a vision of Daoist philosophy and practice whose foundation is built upon fantasy, dishonesty, and a desperate need for attention and affirmation. I strongly urge: Do not be a victim. Do not be an enabler. Do not let yourself be hurt. Do not let yourself be an unwitting assistant in another man's harmful behavior. 祝 道安