fiveelementtao

And yet I still have nothing but good wishes for you.

neiye, My apologies for being so harsh with you. I have some very strong feelings about this issue. I sometimes look before leaping. I am more the aggressive than passive aggressive type. I am still working on that issue. my apologies. I did read your post and I still think your analogy is not applicable here. If I were badogue, your car analogy would anger me also because I believe it minimizes his pain. ( you may have not meant it that way, but I can understand why he might think so) Chia's book is not a car. badogue is not responsible to know about any unspoken dangers in the practice beforehand. If the ghostwriters really did forget to put any warnings in the book. That is also not badogue's fault. That is Chia's fault for allowing the book to go to print without that warning. (I personally wonder if Chia himself even knew if these practices were dangerous or not.) Badogue has every right to be upset if he was harmed doing something that he had no reason to suspect was dangerous. And I still think that if all these other people who are not having problems were more sympathetic instead of either being judgmental or minimizing his situation, badogue might not be so resistant to sharing it openly. But as little1 has now twice demonstrated, there are many on this forum who have no problem resort to making personal attacks against those who hold contrary opinions that (apparently) they feel threatened by. I have not attacked little1 in the slightest even after some pretty nasty provocation on his part and he still wants to make this about me and call me disgusting, even after complimenting and thanking him for some really good stuff he is doing... little1 your signature says, "he started it" which is usually the excuse little kids give to their parents when they are punished for fighting with other kids. So, does that mean you are small pugnacious child? In my signature are links to lots and lots of free teachings, videos, podcasts and other things that I put many hours of my time into sharing things for free with anyone interested. So, I'm sorry if that disgusts you.... I am somewhat amused as to why you feel the need to STILL attack me when I have said nothing critical of you personally or responded to any of your provocations... I have nothing but good wishes for you, my friend...

This illustrates my point quite well. Attempting to prove your point by diverting attention to my signature and making attacks against my character instead of staying on topic. I have yet to attack anyone's character or nor have I called anyone "disgusting." What neiye did was to turn the problem around and blame badogue for getting sick. That is insensitive. The car argument doesn't apply here. When Toyota had a defective accellerator problem, they did not go around blaming the drivers for having accidents. They recalled the vehicles because they knew they had a responsibility to fix the problem. the drivers of those vehicles had every right to expect that the product they bought off the showroom floor would operate under certain safety guidelines. Anyone buying a book has the right to expect the same thing. Just as many toyota drivers were able to drive their vehicles without incident. That does not take away from those who were needlessly injured by driving them while being defective. But, everyone here seems to agree that these techniques have the potential to be dangerous. I have yet to hear anyone deny that sexual kung fu was was traditionally taught in secret because it had the potential to be dangerous. I still believe that putting this stuff in books is irresponsible. If just one person pauses as a result of these kinds of threads, I am very happy for that. I'm happy that so many like you little1 are able to practice it without incident. I have not wished you personally any ill will. Nor have I suggested you stop your practice. I support your efforts to teach some balance and context in this regard and to my knowledge I have never tried to attack your efforts to do so. If I have not said so, it is because I do not think you care about my endorsement and your personal attack seems to bolster that feeling. But, for the record: Thank you for trying to teach some balance in regards to Chia's sexual kung fu. J I have seen people respond with anger against badogue for being sensitive and unwilling to defend his sharing of his experience. He has every right to heal from this at his own pace. And I understand his reluctance to want to discuss his experiences with people who seem more interested in defending their practices than showing compassion to someone who seems to be in need of 1) sympathy and THEN 2)maybe some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And for the record. I LOVE Chia's first book. Some others I have no opinion about because I know nothing of those practices. His reputation is anything but squeeky clean. But that is not relevent. What is relevant to me in term of Chia is that sexual kung fu can be dangerous. This guy isn't the first to have problems from it and he won't be the last...

I am really amazed at the insensitivity of some people on this forum. Now, you are attacking him because of his grammar? It's obvious English is not his primary language. His message is very clear. Chia's Sexual Kung Fu techniques caused him physical injury and he wants to warn people about practicing these techniques without a teacher. Someone PLEASE explain what is wrong with suggesting people find a teacher??? Why are people unable to sympathize with him? Instead of attacking him for nonsense, why not offer him some CONSTRUCTIVE advice? It is also a FACT that many people have been injured doing Chia's sexual practices. If you are so secure in Chia's teachings, then there is no need to treat badogue like he is a threat to your practice.

I understand where you are coming from. The wording of the fourth step has led many IMO to misunderstand the real function of that step. In reality, it is not a moral inventory. Many people mistake the word "moral" to mean the step requires hundreds of pages of rehashing one's life or examining the "bad deeds" they have done. In actuality none of that is in the big book concerning that step. The step is really very brief when done according to the big book. It is about honestly examining one's resentments and the incorrect attitudes and expectations that triggered those resentments. In AA, they talk about how resentments are the #1 cause of drinking and re-lapse. If #4 were to be reworded, another possibility might be,

Hi Walker, I think the best way to correct the problem is not create the unnecessary scenario that creates the problem in the first place. Perhaps you have been one of the majority without problems. perhaps you are a certified instructor. But, why does that preclude you from stepping back to at least consider the possibility that the practice as it is taught now through books may be hazardous even if to a small minority? this is already a given trend that many people are continuing to have serious problems and they are not calling facilitators... that possibility should have been considered ( and would have been considered by traditional teachers) before simply putting it in books for any yahoo to read... This is reflective (IMO) of the lack of foresight by those who put such techniques into books. We're not talking about any product like a radio that if it doesn't work properly is not going to cause major health issues. We are talking about what is traditionally considered a high level energy practice that has always been transmitted from teacher to pupil by a master who has the ability to monitor the student and make any necessary changes BEFORE any symptoms arise. Usually if these kinds of symptoms become noticeable to the practitioner, the imbalance has been there for a while and by the time symptoms arise, It is not a minor problem anymore and it may be necessary for an energy healer to come in and fix it. Sometimes, without a knowledgeable healer, these problems will persist or get worse... And I believe your approach puts the responsibility on the uneducated practitioner, when it should be the responsibility of the teacher to evaluate the student before hand. I'm not trying to ruin the party for those who have enjoyed the practice. and there is no danger of these practices going back into obscurity. They are out there in print for everyone to see. But, I do think it is only prudent to let others know who may be considering these techniques to really think about the possible risks and if they choose to take those risks, to make sure that they have the resources necessary to fix any problems. But, the problem is that those who usually have these problems, probably would not have been given permission, because the master would have seen the potential for abuse or misuse before teaching that person. That is why they were always taught in secret to only those who had proved themselves capable of practicing them properly.

Hi Walker... I don't know... I think you have the priorities backwards. Let's assume that it's only 2%... That's still a big number. Assuming that they have chosen not to contact a healing Tao instructor. Let's ask why? For those I have heard about, the physical symptoms are so severe that contacting HT instructor is really not the issue anymore. They just want their health back and I don't think the average HT instructor is qualified to treat people with severe physical illness or symptoms. The fact remains that it is a very risky practice even under the supervision of a master. HT instructors are not masters. And just because Winn and Chia are familiar with these techniques and teach them does not make them masters either. I know some methods too, but that does not make me a master in regards to sexual kung fu. Winn has had to go back and "update" many of his practices as a direct result of a large number of people who have become seriously ill. (and those are only the ones we know about.) So, just because others have not had problems does not mean that those who have had problems are somehow at fault. That is why these practices are traditionally only taught in person.

I suppose it depends on the context. The 12 steps were hashed and re-hashed over and over again by the founders of AA for years until they found the version that worked best for Alcoholics. So, I guess there is no wrong way to write the steps and it is certainly logical to assume that other versions would work well for other people. From what I've been told by people in AA, the idea of a higher power is crucial for the alcoholic mindset. As I have been told by my friends, The main issue with recovering alcoholics is getting their egos out of the way so that spiritual concepts can take hold and supersede the instinct for alcohol. They have told me that it is also made clear that the phrase "God as you understand Him" can mean absolutely anything and that the alcoholic is encouraged to experiment with the idea of god and can mean anything including a doorknob, a lightbulb, a deity or an idea. It doesn't matter as long as the alcoholic is willing to get rid of the old idea that was not working for them... I have also been told that making alcoholics comfortable is not necessarily the best thing for this process to occur. So, maybe part of the process of wrestling with the aspect of "higher power" that makes them uncomfortble in the first place may even hold within it the answer to overcoming their addiction. Since the steps were originally designed for recovering from alcohol addiction, it had a pretty specific focus. Having said that, I would agree that the principles in the steps can probably be tweeked around for other purposes based on the specific needs of those people... Anyway, I am no expert in this area. just floating thoughts about...

woops double post

You are making a few unsubstantiated assumptions. I am not a young dude. I have read Chia's books. I have done my research. I was celibate for over 6 years and during that time I practiced retention and recirculation. And I have practiced high level qigong while not being celibate for 14 years. So, I do know the difference and can speak from personal experience. So, I not only can read a book. But, I can also learn directly from masters themselves. I have been around long enough to see over the years what has happened to many who have only read books. You claim that intelligent people learn from books. Does that mean that all those masters who learned from real people over thousands of years are somehow more stupid than those who have only learned from books? If you do some research just on this forum alone you will find many more than just a couple of people who have been severely injured from doing sexual kung fu only from books and you will hear from some very respected healers who have had the very real displeasure of seeing the severe trauma that can occur from this kind of stuff. ( from more than just a couple of people.) My friend, you certainly have the right to disagree, but I would be more interested in an opinion backed up with some research and intelligent evidence rather than taking potshots at my character just to try to prove your point. Insulting me has no actual relevance on the facts. You seem to make the claim that Winn and Chia have not publicly reversed themselves on their Sexual Kung Fu techniques. Here is Michael Winn Himself admitting on his forum that he has reversed himself on numerous sexual techniques Anybody can write a book. That does not necessarily mean that they know what they are talking about. Books are helpful study aids in conjunction with learning from a teacher. There is a huge difference between reading about qigong fundamentals in a book and trying to practice high level energy techniques from a book that are usually only taught in person with a teacher who can guide you and correct any questions or mistakes. Learning from real teachers in person is the preferred method over books, not the other way around.

Nope stiggie that wasn't aimed at you...My apologies... The context of that statement in your post was clear to me and was not offensive. It was repeated a couple of times by others which I felt might have been aimed at me.. Listen we all know I'm a hothead... my post was not aimed at anyone in particular...It was my ineffectual attempt to express my frustration that some who had expressed resistance to even the idea of objectively investigating the facts meant that their experiences from reading the material would somehow be invalidated if they learned that Castaneda was not who they thought he was. I have a personal issue when it comes to (what I perceive as) worshipping sacred cows without critical thinking skills. I also need to continue working on patience and allow people to have their issues and work through them at their schedule, not mine... My apologies... I've beaten this horse to death, so I shall take my leave of this thread... Mike

This is the problem. Getting sexual energy techniques from books... Both Mantak Chia and Michael Winn have publicly reversed themselves on sexual kung fu as a result of many people who have severely injured themselves from their books. one of many recent casualties of Mantak Chia here on TTB's is here This is just one of many. Some Medical Qigon practitioners here on TTB's can also tell you of the many patients they have treated who have severely screwed themselves up practicing this stuff from books. Some people now cannot get erections and much worse.

really interesting. That answers alot of questions for me. I spent 6 1/2 years working with celibacy. I experimented with semen retention, Million dollar point etc... I was practicing a very intense energy martial art and form of mysticism. What I found ( at least within the martial system I was using) was that ejaculation was not really the issue. It was relationships. I came to find out that ejaculation was combined with either meaningless sex or with someone that had co-dependent issues, that my energy was severely drained. If however, I had real lovemaking (including ejaculation) with someone I cared for and who also was strong enough in themselves to give their energy to me without strings or expectations, then we both felt our energy increase. After my 6 1/2 years of no relationships, I had meaningless sex and I immediately felt all the energy drain out of my legs and proceeded to get a very nasty case of the flu. I am married now and lovemaking with my wife helps my energy and MA power. there have been times when I have not ejaculated for long periods, but I was also practicing very high level energy, qigong, meditation, MA etc.. and I was able to go for long periods without ejaculation as a result of the energy work. It was never forced. When sexual urges got strong, I allowed myself release. I think when people are seeking sexual retention without it being a natural result of high level energy work within a good system, I think they have the cart before the horse. Rocket fuel is no good without a rocket... My .02

Thanks buddy! sound advice. Will do

Ok, so I'm flipping through my Castaneda collection looking to see where it says that Personal Power and Impeccability means sticking my head in the sand and dependence on others for spiritual validation... Hmmm, not there... Oh, wait... Nope.... Still looking... Nope! Hmm, Can't seem to find it anywhere... We're just going in circles now.. Guess it's time for me to leave you guys alone in this thread... Sorry to have harshed your buzz...

Starjumper, my friend... My endorsement of michael's book and DVD was not directed at you. I was just saying some nice things about someone I respect. But you raise a good question. Why are you doing it? You are obviously an advanced practitioner. I assume you have more than enough practices. If it doesn't work for you, so what? As far as the quality of Qi is concerned, I see that a little differently than you. In my experience Qi is made "good" or bad as a result of my intent and emotions. Qi itself is neutral. No practice is going to hurt me if I try it one time? You're a master. So, if you don't like michael's practice for whatever reason, I am sure you have the power to balance yourself if it turms out not be "good" chi. Although it is true that mixing practices can sometimes cause imbalances. If a practice is an effective one, it is not going to reduce the effectiveness of my other practices. So, I don't think you have to worry about whether another practice is Good or bad. Maybe just different. Who are you asking to send you a DVD? It is a little unlikely that anyone is going to send you a DVD and a bill. If you want the DVD, you will probably have to buy it first. Why should you get special treatment and have somebody pay for shipping to you and then hope you pay them back?... My friend, please don't take this the wrong way. But you sound a little paranoid. Have you considered professional counseling? I myself see a therapist twice a month. I have been going to counseling for 30 years. It helps my qigong training immensely. Maybe that is a better idea for your training than trying to find the next big Qigong practice.. Just a thought...

I loved Michael's book. I also got his DVD and have enjoyed that also. The energy is very subtle and powerful and might get missed by some. But, as I get older, I enjoy the "emptiness" in the high level teachings like Michael's. Michael is IMO a real master for the Western World. Those that have the privilege of studying with him are indeed lucky. IME, it is rare to find someone with his level of mastery and also humble awareness that he is just another seeker on the path.

@ Stig I don't think your points are in question. I agree with them and with Ya Mus' points that the Universe is holographic in nature and we do not know all the why's of it all. I am able to accept those truths and still want to take a good, hard, objective, critical look at the entire teaching. As someone stated earlier even a bad guru can teach truth to a good student. Castaneda's personal failings and fraud aside, there are also some very destructive elements to his books that come out later in the series and I believe it is helpful to make a distinction between castaneda, the legitimate traditions he borrowed from and his made up teachings. As is exemplified by a very understandable human desire to exonerate Castaneda in order to validate our own experiences, there is also(IMO) a very real danger that people will mistake the messenger for the message swallow the whole ball of wax and become dependent on the poisonous aspects of the entire context of his teachings. I understand people's desire to want to protect fans of castaneda from those of us who may look like we are trying to minimize their experiences. That is not my desire at all... I believe, however that if someone only reads a couple of his books or reads them casually, they might miss the distinction between his borrowed teachings and the stuff he made up himself. The teachings that we all resonated with and that propelled us into opening our perceptions to other realities and that he so very eloquently and beautifully expressed are borrowed from existing teachings within established spiritual traditions already in existence. The stuff he made up however IMO are NOT helpful to spiritual evolution and encourage spiritual dependence. Especially if people feel a dependence on Castaneda himself. He uses the legitmate teachings to legitimize his destructive made-up teachings. By pointing out the difference between the man, the real teachings and the made up teachings, then we are forced to go back through the concepts he wrote about and make critical judgements about what works and what doesn't. For instance, when I was reading his books I remember having very powerful experiences when digesting his teachings about impeccability, stopping the world, the recapitulation exercise etc... But the stuff he made up about the assemblage point, the warrior having to cut themself off from all personal relationships, the denying of emotions, the mindless eagle who devours human awareness, creating an almost daibolical attachment to "inorganic beings," Don Juan avoiding the Eagle by hiding in an ant hill and other things, had a distinctly unpleasant, limiting and different feel to them than what I believe are legitimate teachings that he borrowed. I remember being very excited when tensegrity came out. When I watched the tapes, Florinda Grau and the other witches had a very.... "disfunctional" look about them. I remember getting the feeling that they were emotionally stunted and repressed. At the time, it bothered me and fostered alot of doubts that I had been ignoring because I wanted the freedom that Don Juan talked about so much. But I told myself it was because they were "impeccable warriors." But I remember seeing what looked like repressed fear and anger in their eyes. Of course it could just be my projection, but with everything we know about what happened, my perception make more sense to me now. By the end of the series, especially in the last two books "The art of dreaming" and "The active side of Infinity," Castaneda had moved away from the really cool liberating stuff in the first few books and was teaching stuff that still reminds me of Fundamentalist christianity. The "mud shadow" Demons that feed off of human emotion, the need to join his warrior group to "escape" the Eagle, the addiction to the inorganic beings, there were many other things that IMO fostered only fear, cynicism and existential dependance. The liberating quest for freedom in the first books by the last books had devolved into a frantic, fear based quest for salvation from a cruel, empty lifeless universe bent on devouring us clueless humans. And instead of enjoying the quest for freedom that he introduced in the first books with the Tibetan, Taoist and Hindu teachings, he borrowed, the craziness and fear he was teaching in order to promote his cult was IMO very destructive. So, while some may resent what I and others are saying , It is not from a desire to destroy anyone's enjoyment of the truths he did teach, but to hopefully spur people to make an effort to distinguish the real teachings that do not depend on any guru to impart but are freely available to us all and the other stuff, that IMO breed fear insecurity and dependence.

Stay away from pornography and find a girlfriend who wants to explore your spiritual path and have normal emotionally fulfilling sex with her. The way to satiate sexual feelings is to satisfy them in a healthy way. The sure method to increase lust is to forcefully abstain from sex.

OK. the maximum amount of ejaculations and still be healthy for a 23 year old man is 2...per day! I echo what has already been said that the concept that seminal retention or abstinence from ejaculation will somehow make you stronger or give you more chi power is nonsense. I understand seminal retention and limiting ejaculation is very popular now. But it is not representative of many respected traditional taoist teachings. It has been taken out of context and completely misunderstood. What is suggested in some very high level traditional taoist teachings is that one should be conscious of the their personal relationships, NOT obsessing about one's bodily fluids. One should meditate on the emotional energy that is being transfered between people in their lives. Sexual relationships only being ONE aspect of that meditation. Having sex with someone who is not in synch with you spiritually is seen as throwing your emotional energy away NOT sexual energy. The sexual fluids are not the focus here. You can retain semen or abstain from ejaculation until it is coming out your nose, but if you have toxic personal relationships, your energy is being sapped and THAT is what makes you sick or age faster. In some traditional schools of Tao, sexual techniques are absolutely forbidden because they are seen as ineffective not to mention dangerous. This is something that many people who only get their teachings from books may not understand. The founder of the first major taoist sect (after the celestial masters sect) which spawned all the other sects was named Lady Wei and she specifically prohibited any sexual techniques. Sexual kung fu was considered a "layman" technique that would only work in a very limited way. Those who were learning the inner door techniques were taught different things. IME and IMO, the need to retain semen is indicative of psychological insecurity and control issues. these personal issues will inhibit a student's energetic and spiritual progress. Tao is about flowing harmoniously with life. If you really want to learn methods of long life... find a teacher... If you can';t find a teacher, then seek to live harmoniously. That is the highest teaching... my .02

Manitou, My friend.. there is no need for argument. You can have your experiences AND castaneda can still be a fraud. Nobody is trying to take your experiences away from you. This is a completely different issue. If you simply talked about your personal experiences without trying to salvage Castaneda's reputation in the process, there would be nothing to say. I recommend sharing those experiences. You don't need Castaneda's reputation to validate your own experiences. I'm sure many people would love to hear about them. But do you see the difference? No one has denied the validity of some of his teachings. That is because they come from legitimate sources. For me, I would not have even weighed in on the subject if you hadn't tried to prove castaneda was not a fraud. Because personal experiences are just that. Just like feelings. No can tell you that your feelings are wrong. Have you considered why you feel the need to validate castaneda's reputation to validate your personal experiences? I had to go through this when I investigated him... For the record, I had very powerful experiences myself while reading his books. So, I completely share your experiences, but I also don;t feel the need to salvage his reputation especially when I discovered that what he teaches does come from real mystical teachings. Does that make sense? Mike

How to play a middle eastern "sounding" scale on a basic Native American Pentatonic Flute

Sykkel, now you're just being a dick. I'm putting you into the managed blocked users bin and I'm outta this thread...

Go back and read that post again. You may be misinterpreting what I said. there are two examples, the first guy was overwhelmed by the speed. (I was training 4 hours a day back then) That's what stopped him, not the qi power. Because he was my friend, I did not use any real chi power in the strikes. I wanted him to know that I knew that I was much faster than he was. In the second example, I hit the guy,s forearm with my closed fist HARD. hard enough to let him know that in my style, there is no such thing as sparring. You either shoot to kill or you don't pull your gun. In that scenario I did use qi power and it did disable him. But to anyone watching, it would look like I pounded his forearm with my fist. But it is true that what he felt was the power of the strike from my internal energy. I fyou remember his comment back to me was that he thought I hit him with a pressure point. I did, but that is not what stopped him... I don't know about others. IME, many internal martial artists don't truly understand qi application. The old secretive guys do. If one can find one of those guys, you will see real speed, real power and real qi power also