fiveelementtao

My reaction IS strong, maybe even extreme. There are appropriate times for strong reactions. But unusual? My reaction is not against weed. I have no moral restrictions about it. I believe it should be legalized and people should have the freedom to smoke as much as they want. But I am clear about what weed IS. It's not a vitamin pill. Irt is not a magic staircase to God or enlightenment. It is not a magical fix all that will help cultivation. It is a powerful drug. It is toxic and has some pretty serious side effects. I personally think it is extreme and unusual to go to such lengths to distort facts about a very powerful and toxic drug and masquerade it as a health food supplement. That Post was irresponsible and possibly harmful to those honestly seeking methods to help their cultivation. I felt the need to call "B.S!" My apologies to anyone who was hurt or offended.

The propaganda goes both ways... Total B.S. What kind of crappy weed do you smoke? I can't even count the number of times I fell, fainted, dropped things, broke things, crashed vehicles, etc... because of smoking weed back in the day. And today's weed is much more concentrated the stuff I smoked back in the '70's. It absolutely diminishes motor skills and reaction time B.S. again! I myself have hallunicanted numerous times on MJ way back in the day. Also Paranoia is a well know side effect of MJ. MJ absolutely alters one's ability to intepret objective reality... B.S a third time! I also OD'd on MJ a couple times as a kid Puked my guts out, heart beat out of control and unable to function for hours. Let's stop kidding ourselves THC is a powerful chemical. It has its place especially in pain management. It IS valuable, but it NOT harmless... Taken from the "Qi and Marijuana" Thread. The Eternal student had this to say about the TCM perspective in another thread: This isn't my opinion. It is reportedly from a Traditional Chinese Medicinal perspective...

Switch to Mac. Seriously, I never have to worry about viruses...

Merry Christmas, Happy Channukah, Blessed Yuletide, Happy Kwanzaa or happy whatever appropriate religious, ethnic or cultural celebration you choose... May your day be filled with the joy of friends, family and Spirit... Mike

No. If you are getting headaches, something is wrong. Do you have a teacher or are you trying to learn by yourself? Studying in person with a teacher always helps. They can see if you are doing something wrong. Possible causes IME. 1) incorrect posture while meditating 2) Focusing on upper chakras without proper training or improper technique. 3) Forcing the energy. 4) Improper or dangerous technique 5) Not doing a thorough close down. Closing down after energy work is very important... here is a good video of a very good close down routine...

JK have you seen the movie yet? If not, I think you may have the wrong idea of what is about? It is NOT pro war.

No. Absolutely not. My suggestion was for YOU to get professional help to help YOU see your addiction to their misery. You are in classic co-addiction/denial mode. You CAN'T do ANYTHING for them. If you feel I am mistaken, I encourage you to do some online research about "co-addiction". See if what you find doesn't apply to your situation and your feelings. If not, then continue trying to save your friends from addiction. You're right I may be "blowing this out of proportion." If so, you have nothing to lose by investigating what Co-Addiction is and if it applies to you. (sigh) Time for me to take my own advice and retire from this thread. This is a horrible time of year to be suffering from this kind of situation. My heart is with you. I wish you peace and happiness. http://www.al-anon.org/S17web.html

It is indeed noble to want to help others. But they must first WANT your help. When you feel the need to force them to take your help against their will, that is abusive. Is that what you want to do? abuse them?... meditate on that... If I were in your position (and I have been), I would seek out professional counseling. This could destroy your life. If we are talking any kind of addiction, you need to understand the true nature of addiction and what you really can and cannot do to help. I can tell you from my experience on both sides of this issue, that (based on what I've read from you) I do not believe you fully understand what their problem is or what the solution is. You need help, too or this can destroy your life or reappear later with other people if you are not able to face your issues that attract these kinds of people in your life. Good luck to you...

Lucky 7... again, I understand your predicament. I have been there more than once. I am not minimizing your pain or the pain of your friends... I am speaking from experience, not just opinion... Try to listen to what I am saying without getting upset... You are a taoist. You know as a taoist, that ALL options are available to everyone at all times. It is illusion to see otherwise... I suggest taking stock of the level of intensity of feelings you have right now. You seem to be highly reactive to my post... True spiritual giving does not come from a place of need. If you are feeling an intense need to help these people, that is a warning sign that you are not operating from a detached loving place. You are operating from your selfishness and not a true desire to help. True love also can detach and allow others their choices in life... I would also suggest looking at your need to support these peoples' situation as being victims. I am speaking from experience. I was those people you are referring to. And I can absolutely tell you that however difficult my situation was, ( and it WAS difficult). I was there by choice. I chose to get out that situation. It was VERY difficult. So I am in NO way minimizing their plight. Many people don;t make it out. But it is their choice to stay where they are or move past it. Your addiction lies in needing to see them as helpless victims. You are also addicted if you feel you NEED to save them or if the thought of not being able to save them is not allowing you the distance to allow them to be where they are... Again, if my opinions are not stinging with some truth, then why are you having such a strong reaction the what I am saying...

I understand your desire to help. But I think you may be mistaken about a couple of things... "when the person is self-destructive under the idea that he/she has no choice" You answered your own question here... the person is self destructive. That in itself is a choice. Think about how you became willing to follow a spiritual path. It was your choice. When someone feels they have no choice, they are operating out of a victim mentality. And, having suffered with that quite a bit in my life, i can say from experience, that it was a choice to look at myself and the world that way. If somebody feels like a victim it is because they are choosing to feel that way. It may take some real effort to change that mentality, so I am not trying to minimize it. "there's no one around to lift him/her up..' Yes there is. The Infinite power of the Universe is there to lift them up. But they have to be willing to ask for it and be willing to do what is necessary to follow the Universe's direction to get out of whatever mess they are in.. You also assume that these people want to go through the necessary personal growth to enjoy the spiritual path you are on. I am willing to bet that they do not want to go through the pain of growth that your path requires. Bottom line is.. It is very sad that your friends are where they are, but it is their choice and their karma. we don't know the karmic lessons that they need to learn. By "saving" them from their pain, you may be taking away very needed life experiences for their spiritual growth. You can be an example and if they want to change, they will ask you. Outside of that, it is beyond your power. If this is a real issue for you, I would suggest a 12 step group like Al-Anon. Because needing to save others from addiction is an addiction in itself...

It's OK to charge.. It's OK to NOT charge. It's OK to pay. It's OK to NOT pay. If you have a personal issue about paying for something that is labeled as sacred, then don't pay. Problem solved. There is plenty of free stuff out there. If you don't have an issue with labels and you want to pay for something you think is valuable, then pay. If you only want to pay for something through donation, then do that. It is a free universe, you can do or not do whatever you want. I myself have paid for spiritual teachings in the past and I would gladly do it again if I felt the teaching were valuable to me. I charge for my teachings because I want to make sure that I only spend time and effort teaching people who are committed to practicing what I teach. Money insures that. If they do not value what I am offering, they won't pay. If they won't pay, they won't practice the art when it becomes emotionally, physically or spiritually challenging. My goal is to make sure that the teachings survive. I do not want to waste time investing my time and effort into someone if they aren't going to practice the art. So, I charge not only to compensate me for my time and effort, but to insure that I only teach those who will in turn be able to keep the tradition alive for future generations. No amount of money can pay for the teachings, they are beyond price. But, my time and experience has value. To not recognize that is selfish on my part...If anyone decides to become a teacher, they will understand what I am saying. If someone comes to me with a spirit of self entitlement, I charge them triple and teach them less. If someone comes to me with a real desire to learn and proves it, I will bend over backwards to teach them and insure that they are able to learn within their means...

Sorry, I read about the study in college some 20 years ago in a text book.

I can share from experience, that when it comes to "Qi", the more you try and grab on to it, the further you push it away. The more you think about it, the more mysterious it becomes. Children know what it is and don't need to understand it to enjoy it...

Medical experiments have shown that the nervous system cannot tell the difference between an imagined and a real event. This is why it is important to spend time smiling and laughing throughout the day as opposed to dwelling on resentments, fears etc... If you imagine something, your body reacts as though it is really happening. If you imagine you are filled with the bliss of heaven, your body will react as though it is true. And at that point, who's to say it isn't?

Thanks for that input... That clears up alot and confirms alot for me... Thanks again...

It's easy to get lost in the meaning of "Qi". Qi means the same as Prana. In Latin the term for breath is "respirare" which literally means to "Re-Spirit". "Re-Spiration" is still the medical term for breath. In the hospital when someone dies, they "expire (Ex-Spirare)" which literally means "Exiting Spirit". So we still have this idea that Breath is Spirit or Life Force... This idea of breath and spirit as one and the same is not just in Chinese or Sanskrit. We in the west, used to believe in a "life Force" that was infused into the body with breath. Qi is just the Chinese word for the same thing all cultures originally knew to exist as "life Force, Breath, Spirit or energy.

never mind... wrong thread...

Two Thumbs Up!!! I saw the movie and really enjoyed it. More than I expected I would. As I was sitting in the packed theatre with my wife who was gushing about the movie, waiting for the theatre to empty and having a personal kumbaya moment, a 16 or 17 year old guy behind me starts in and reminded me of the environment of where I live... Here is the conversation we overheard as we waited for the theatre to empty out... "Well, there were some aspects I could've done without." "Like what?" His friend asks.. "Well, for starters, I could have done without the romance... I would've liked it if the marines mowed down those aliens in their first battle. That was their biggest mistake... Y'know Vietnam wasn't our fault. It was the U.S. Army's fault... We did our job..." (I'm assuming his father was a marine in Vietnam or he himself planned to become a marine...) Anyway, it was a blunt reminder that at least 1/2 of the U.S. population still thinks that George Bush was a good president... Anyway, apart from that unfortunate conversation I was forced to listen to aftewards... I liked it so much that me and my wife plan on seeing it again in 3-D!!

Generally speaking.... According to East Indian Yoga, The right side is Male (Sun, Yang) Left side is Female (Moon, Yin). I'm not an expert in TCM but what I've heard is:TCM teaches Right is Yin, Left is Yang. In my taoist tradition, I was taught right hand is Yang, Left hand is Yin... In the African tradition I learned, Right is External (Male) Left is Internal (female). In context of all world energetic traditions (that I have seen... which is only a little) all teach Right is Male, Left is Female. The only exception I've seen IME is in TCM. I don't know why there is a difference there, Maybe a TCM person can explain the difference....

Lino, You make some very good points and I agree with them all. I don't see the disagreement here. You and I are both saying that meditation is not about stuffing our feelings and pretending to be at peace. But I do feel that many beginning westerners have been handed a bunch of nonsense in many new agey books that simply explain meditation as "emptying the mind" and "being at peace" and as a result we have alot of people that approach meditation as a way to escape their feelings rather than face them... You are saying the same thing. Not that meditation doesn't eventually give peace of mind, but that it is a process that takes discipline focus and resolve...That was really my point. and it is what I am reacting to when I hear people want to give up meditating because they don't feel peaceful immediately. So, I don't see the disagreement... you said This is exactly my point.. That it is necessary to face our limitations before we can be at peace.

Well, IME any spiritual process that creates subconscious resistance is a sure sign that it is something that I need for my own personal growth. My take on the process is that true spiritual growth happens on a level that is beyond the reach of my mind/ego. So, since my mind does not understand what is happening, it becomes fearful and acts out destructively in an attempt to protect me. The job of my ego is to protect me, so when it feels it cannot control a situation, it thinks it is a threat and seeks to destroy it. So, once again, I need to work with my ego, let it know that the process is really for my benefit and help me through it. If I am able to convince my ego that I will become stronger as a result of the practice, then my ego will try to to help me through the fear and resistance. I will share an example. I used to be an actor and director. Whenever I was directing a play or film, just before opening night or first day of shooting, the actors would all forget lines, have physical injuries, pick fights with each other and then all freak out because tomorrow was opening night and they were all afraid that they would suck on when the curtain went up or when I yelled action. It is at this point that many directors start yelling at their actors to "get it together and stop screwing around." which puts more stress on the actors and creating more negative drama. I, on the other hand, would tell my actors that all the craziness they are experiencing was a very good sign. To this, my actors would usually get a slacked jawed dumbfounded look on their faces. I would explain that their resistance was exhibiting itself through unconscious destructive acts. Not because they didn't know what they were doing, but because they were on the verge of actually emotionally connecting with their characters and going beyond their mind's understanding and this was frightening their egos... So, then I would talk them through explaining that their egos did not understand what was going on and that they were afraid. So, if we merely explain to our egos like a parent to a frightened child that if we go beyond the mind and actually emotionally connect with our characters, we will look better,... then our egos will get out of the way and help us go beyond our limitations.... This is the process I go through with myself when I am experiencing ego based fears in regard to my spiritual work. Instead of trying to destroy my ego, I become the parent and explain to my ego that it is in our best interest if we take the risk and work through the fear... My .02 Mike

All good questions... My answer is Yes and No... Yes, Chi follows intent. So if you intend for your energy to flow to your hand, it is possible to make it happen. Second... No. The tingling sensation or any other sensation you feel is not Chi. It is your body reacting to Chi. Sometimes reactions can mean there is alot of energy in that spot. Chi reactions may also mean there is a blockage in that area. In any case, personal sensations can be subjective and deceptive. Ideally, even though sensations of Chi are fun, they are not the ultimate goal. It is the knowledge of what you are doing with the Chi that is important. On one hand you have achieved alot by being able to sense your energy and move it around and on the other hand, you haven't accomplished much because the important thing is to know what to do with the energy once you've summoned it in order to effect a lasting and healing transformation. You're 23, now, so you're old enough to start a real practice. My suggestion is to follow through and find a teacher who can guide you through an established practice that can have real and lasting effects. There is some danger in playing with energy in that if you do happen to awaken alot of chi, it is important to know how to safely close down your process so that you don't get energy stuck somewhere or as you pointed out, have the energy simply "leak out."... Good luck, Mike

It will be difficult learning Tao through books or discussion forums. The Tao Te ching is a good book to start with but it is not just for intellectual contemplation. It is a practical textbook for living. Taoism is a very practical philosophy. One very good way to begin the study of Tao is through a taoist physical practice like Tai Chi or Qigong. Another good way to learn about Tao is by observing Nature. It is a good idea to seek out a teacher if you can.

What is so good about easy? Oy... I give up.... I never thought I would become the old fart...This IS a taoist forum right? When did taoism become synonymous with easy or with dropping acid...What does either of those things have to do with Taoism??? Ok.. time for me to retire from this thread... Anger and frustration can be as much a drug as anything else... Bye...