fiveelementtao

I will let my wife know...

No need for offense. I am a demon fighter and when it comes to demon attacks, I go for the jugular... (translation: I can be very direct sometimes. ) My desire is to help. Feel my energy, you will know I am your friend. All I meant by "involved" was that you are emotionally attached because he is your friend and that makes you attached to the outcome and inneffective against demons. If he chooses to get Santi's help that is a good sign. I reiterate that it is a good idea to ask your guides to help you see why you attract entities to you whether through someone else or yourself... I am talking from expereince here... there is something within your spirit that wants to be addressed... Blessings, my friend... Mike

If it's just a persistent muscle twitch, I find that magnesium really helps. I have heard that most people are deficient in magnesium. If you are talking a major muscle cramp from an injury, then please disregard...

There is no difference. Tell yourself that if it justifies the fun of craziness. Pissing off people? pissing off demons. In order to be targeted, one has to make themselves a target... It is all a choice. There are no victims. If one is true to their soul, no spiritual power can touch them no matter who is pissed off. Karma is karma. It is earned. Justify it however you want. Spiritual dysfunction is no different than "human" dysfunction. It's a way to avoid being honest with your own issues. When one is true to themselves, the most powerful "lineage power" is always there to help. And no true spiritual guides will intervene for someone who is in denial... Salt baths, walks in the woods... It means nothing if you don't face the mirror... If one is prepared to face their own issues and ask the divine for the power to own up to themselves, then any ritual will do the job... But it must be followed by regular counseling or the denial will return and so will the demons... The other point I am trying to make is that you attracted him... Right on the heels of the mystery entity sex... Witch...by focusing on him, you are avoiding yourself... Demons are always a reflection of unconscious psychological issues... You are not qualified to help in this instance because you are involved with him which makes you too attached. You need someone who is objective... I have told you exactly what will work. If you choose not to do it. Then, (as I see it) you are having too much fun to change. addiction is addiction... Santi is a good guy, maybe he can help...

Listen Witch. Under attack, emotionally ill... It doesn't matter. Whatever is happening to him is a result of alot of karma on his part. It takes alot of effort over a long period of time to create the conditions necessary for spiritual attack. He is responsible for this. The only one that can save him is himself. If he is not ready to change, then he is choosing to be attacked.... My advice is the same.... Detach yourself! Send him to a priest for a cleansing and get him to therapy. I know what I'm talking about here. I have alot experience in this. If he is under attack as you say and he does not want to be spiritually cleansed then you know that he has attracted this attack because he is hiding from his own personal issues. The most important question for you is WHY you feel the need to become responsible for him? People who are honest with themselves do not attract demons... Period... IME every spiritually attacked person was lying to themselves about something important. We all are imperfect, so it is OK to work through our karma however we need to but, spiritual craziness is not necessary and if we keep attracting it, there is a reason...

Amen! I am an exorcist, but I have learned that no one is a victim. This guy has done alot to accumulate so much negativity. Get some distance.... Have a priest from whatever religion he respects do a ritual and then follow it up with regular counseling... The other question is why you are taking so much responsibility for someone else?... By trying to heal someone who is so badly damaged, you are taking on his karma into your aura... Why invite that into your life?

Don't try so hard. Relax and enjoy the exercise. If it is a good practice and you follow form correctly you should not need to guide the chi with your mind. The physical postures and movements will do the work for you. You do not need to overthink it. Relax and enjoy...

Actually from a IMA perspective this a perfect analogy. The first thing I was ever taught was "Strength is No Strength." IME, Tao has to be experienced physically as a force of nature in order for the TTC to be truly understood. Intellectual concepts get very fuzzy. But the Tao is as much physical as it is mental/spiritual. From a physical perspective of how energy flows, this is a perfect definition... I think one of the drawbacks of "philosophical" taoism is that for someone who does not practice a physical taoist art, then the TTC becomes a poetic, intellectual piece of prose to be pondered and mused over. Many "Literary" experts pride themselves on their intellectual understanding of the TTC, but have no clue how to put it into action in their lives, (Which is the whole point) But, the TTC is more than just deep musings, it is actually a manual for energy cultivation. But unless someone practices some form of cultivation, they will only see poetic musings. As a physical Tao practitioner, I read a practical manual on cultivation... These principles are not something someone created out of an intellectual insight into the nature of the universe. These sayings are scientific "Findings" after lengthy experimentation. I believe that after experiencing this physically, then Lao Tzu (or whoever) wrote... Before learning an IMA, the TTC was just a deep, poetic book, after learning IMAs, I saw that the TTC was actually a step by step manual on energy cultivation.... from the physical experience, then one can apply these principles in life, society, business, martial arts, politics etc... I think many have the process backwards. They think about the Tao and then try to put it into practice. This reduces the principles of the TTC into intellectual ideas that people spend hours splitting hairs over...

Yes... the same form that Winn teaches. Some people call it "Tai Chi for Enlightenment" I think for two reasons: 1) the opening move looks similar to the the opening for Tai Chi. 2) Because alot of people don't know the difference between the words "Tai Chi" and "Qigong". That's the way it is out here in Idaho. When most people say "Tai Chi" out here what they really mean is Qigong...

Instead of engaging the question directly, I propose a test. Take a good look at how you feel now if you drink and/or use recreational drugs ( including "spiritual" hallucinogens). HONESTLY journal how you feel physically, mentally and emotionally. Then stop drinking and using drugs for one year and continue your cultivation. and then journal how you feel after the year is over. You will find out a few things. 1) whether or not you are addicted. (because if you can't stop for a year...) 2) whether these chemicals actually help your cultivation 3) whether or not you are emotionally stunting your growth with these chemicals We could go back and forth about free will and whether or not it is ok to use them or not. But if you can't stop for a year... Then these other questions are smokescreens to keep you using and drinking. Also if one is truly interested in "enlightnement" then one year to experiment with chemical free cultivation is well worth it. But if one keeps using and only muses on whether or not it is helpful to quit... IMO it is empty rationalization... That's my .02 personally, I have never been in the presence of someone using alcohol or drugs without sensing that their hun souls were being diminished and their po souls taking over their consciousness. I have never felt anyone under the influence of drugs and alcohol operating from their spirit... So try going for a year clean and then tell me if your experience is different than mine...

When I was young I tried a few external martial arts... Karate, Chung Moo Quan, Thai Boxing... But I always felt something was missing. I really wanted something that took care of spiritual, metaphysical and emotional... I was drawn to Mao Shan Pai Spirit Fighting because primarily it was metaphysically very powerful. The forms are actually shamanic talismans that are traced with the hands and feet inside a Pa Kua which summon different dieties or cosmic forces. This power was used to change their energy bodies to enable them for OBE's and banishing negative energies... Physical Self defense is a wonderful by product but is not the primary motivation. Ironically, for myself, (just my experience) I have yet to find another art that is faster, deadlier or more effective in a self defense situation. Since the chi power is so intense, I find that winding down my workout with Tai Chi and/or primordial Tai Chi to be very helpful in absorbing the cosmic energies into my tendons and bones ... Otherwise, the energy is so intense that if it is not reabsorbed back into the body and energy channels, that it can make one a little loopy. It is also my experience that the power of my meditations is increased exponentially after my spirit fighting workouts... So for me the primary reasons are for 1: Cultivation 2: Health 3: Self-Defense

Respectfully, I have two problems with this poll: 1)Those are not the only internal taoist martial arts in existence... 2) I can only pick one I teach Mao Shan Pai martial arts, Qigong, Neigong and meditation. Here is what I posted in the other current martial arts thread... When I was young I tried a few external martial arts... Karate, Chung Moo Quan, Thai Boxing... But I always felt something was missing. I really wanted something that took care of spiritual, metaphysical and emotional... I was drawn to Mao Shan Pai Spirit Fighting because primarily it was metaphysically very powerful. The forms are actually shamanic talismans that are traced with the hands and feet inside a Pa Kua which summon different dieties or cosmic forces. This power was used to change their energy bodies to enable them for OBE's and banishing negative energies... Physical Self defense is a wonderful by product but is not the primary motivation. Ironically, for myself, (just my experience) I have yet to find another art that is faster, deadlier or more effective in a self defense situation. Since the chi power is so intense, I find that winding down my workout with Tai Chi and/or primordial Tai Chi to be very helpful in absorbing the cosmic energies into my tendons and bones ... Otherwise, the energy is so intense that if it is not reabsorbed back into the body and energy channels, that it can make one a little loopy. It is also my experience that the power of my meditations is increased exponentially after my spirit fighting workouts... So for me the primary reasons are for 1: Cultivation 2: Health 3: Self-Defense

I agree with Blasto... forget mental energy! Your mind is not your spirit. Your mind is only the software that your brain uses to help your spirit to function on the earthly plane. If what you want is to go beyond the material, you will need to drop the mind altogether and use your spirit. A question I want to ask you is... (you don't need to answer me, this is just for YOU to sit with). What are you using your mental energy for? ....to hide from your feelings? If you want to make alot of spiritual progress, use your energies to feel your emotions. If you are anything like I was at 17, I was using my mind and chemicals to escape the horrible feelings I had because of my crazy family. If that is your situation, then it makes perfect sense to me that you would want to find ways to escape your feelings by focusing on the problems of the World. The true spiritual path, the path of the spiritual warrior is the path of facing oneself. This means facing your painful frightening feelings, experiencing them and then using your spirit to transcend them and grow. All of the problems you see in the world are within you! Let your mind go and feel your feelings... Taoist practices like martial arts, Qigong and meditation are the weapons we use to achieve this. By using these methods, we are able to slowly, day by day, transcend our ego and mind. It is very possible you will need a teacher to guide you through this process. Few of us have been able to do it alone. Along with working with energy, we taoists also enjoy experiencing our bodies and can use our physical body to overcome our spiritual weaknesses. In my teachings, I was taught to use mind body and spirit. If you only focus on the mind, you are lopsided. Drugs distort the mind, destroy the body and cloud the spirit. So, I would stop any recreational drug use. So, find a physical exercise you enjoy, find a teacher who can teach you energy work like qigong, martial arts and meditation. Find someone you trust to whom you can safely share your feelings and then maybe, you can use your mind.... This is what taoists have done for centuries. If you want what they have, do what they did... The good news is that the first and most important thing you need is sincerity. You seem to have that. So, you are in a good place to start... All the best to you... Mike

Ohm-Nei, my brother/sister, Your desire for knowledge is indeed honorable and I think all of us encourage your seeking. But, I would like to try and help you understand why some of us respond less than enthusiastically to your posts... Instead of trying to get everyone else to "understand" you, a better question to ask yourself is why people react to your posts this way.... The first post of yours I saw was you saying that you were on the verge of understanding the Universe and you were open to all questions... I suspected that you were getting your inspiration from Marijuana... You are 17. When I was 17, I was smoking alot of pot and thinking I was coming to understand the nature of the Universe. I am 46 now, and I was very wrong... I had no clue what was going on. I see myself in you. Others probably do as well... ( I do not speak for the moderators or for all of taoism, this is just my take on things...) This is a taoist forum and all are welcome... However, I think you may have a misconception as to what taoism is. Taoism is not just a new age philosophy where we think deep thoughts and throw around intellectual ideas. There are some on this forum who would disagree with me, but I suspect they are mostly people who have never undergone any formal taoist practice, or are only interested in reading books... Most people in the west who are not familiar with taoism think it is just a spiritual philosophy. and while there is a deep philosophical aspect to taoism, that philosophy has always been traditionally inextricably linked with proving our ideas through practical experience. It's great to think about things but for me as a taoist, but if it cannot be translated and proven through experience, it just mental masturbation and actually hinders my spiritual progress (for me). That is why there is so much talk on this forum about energy work. Taoist energy practices and martial arts are experience based. In other words, talk is cheap. Instead of getting excited about ideas, we prefer to have our minds expanded through the experience of energetic practice and meditation and then talk about it. You sort of have it the other way around... You want to talk about stuff, but have no interest inproving it through experience. You yourself said... "I must admit, I am more interested in the metaphysical aspects of western medicine and culture that I am in actually learning how to perform them." You have also mentioned that you sometimes use drugs for your intellectual inspiration. My experience is that kind of intellectual inspiration is useless, because pot smoking induced enlightenment tends to keep people locked in their minds and away from practical experience (besides all the other negative impacts it has on your health. So, my suggestion is if you want to make the best of this forum, instead of telling everyone how enlightened you are, if you instead ask how to apply it through taoist methods, you will get a much better response from people... As I said, you are welcome to stay here and post anything you want. My personal suggestion is to get out more, smell the fresh air, make more friends and have fun. Staying home smoking pot, hiding begind a computer screen and thinking about the problems of the world will get you nowhere... If I was 17 again, knowing what I know now, I would be seeking out masters to train with and/or looking for girls... Maybe take up a taoist martial art get some exercise and get out of your head... (worked for me). Then come back on this forum and tell us what you've learned through experience...

"reverse" MCO is actually part of an orthodox shang Ch'ing method. It is a "heaven to earth" method and is one of those "secrets" people are talking about on the other thread. The "normal" MCO is a fire method which is why people who are overheated find themselves wanting to do it backwards. The reverse MCO is a water method... One of Chia's students has started a theory that running the MCO backwards is the natural way...

I have read a couple of Master Ni's books. His books contain some of the oldest and most authentic taoist teachings I've seen in print. He is respectful of other religions and traditions but his teachings are wholly Taoist. There are things I learned in my lineage that I have not seen anywhere else except from Master Ni. He presents the teachings in a very accessible way to westerners, but it is very "Old School" taoism. IMO Master Ni is the real deal...

It's understandable to want everything out there for all. I have felt this way. I do not feel this way any more. I have learned some secrets and I now believe that some secrets should not be given out without some guidelines. Some techniques are very powerful and dangerous if done improperly. In some cases the power can be abused to hurt others. So, it's not about hiding things just to be secretive, it's about making sure that those who recieve the secrets are able to handle the power. Some secrets, if used properly can help greatly toward spiritual enlightenment, but if misused can cause illness, insanity or death. Spiritual technologies are tools, they are not the end. We all have everything we need for enlightenment. We don't need any secrets.... I myself have witnessed people lose their sanity from misusing the techniques they had learned out of a greed for power. This is another reason I am always saying that it is best to learn from a qualified teacher.

You ask very good questions. I have experience in both the yoruba and yogic traditions. I cannot speak to the tibetan tradition, but others have done so already. I am speaking from painful experience here when I say... It's best not to mix practices or traditions unless you really know what you are doing. Pick one technique from one tradition from a reliable resource and then stick with it and follow instructions. There are alot of mantras easily available. But remember that sanskrit mantras are very powerful and should not be played with without real commitment. If you choose one, do so mindfully and stick with it for the prescribed amount of time until the mantra has achieved it's effect. This will insure success and also not "anger" or confuse the energies you are stimulating. In terms of Ganesha, He is directly related to the Root Chakra. So, when you chant to Ganesha, you are activating the Root chakra and the Earth Element. Ganesha breaks obstacles through manifestation. This is why Ganesha is always chanted to first before embarking on any new project. because it is through the Earth element that one can manifest their desire. Ogun, however is VERY different. He is from the Yoruba tradition and is connected to the Metal Element. Ogun destroys obstacles with his machete. He uses metal to hack, slash and divide. He is known as a very angry warrior and must be treated with respect. If he is angered, it is BAD news. So, you can't just throw Ganesha and Ogun together because they both "break obstacles." They do it in very different ways. Each of these ideas are from different cultures, so it is important to understand the function of each diety within the context of their story. destroying obstacles in the Hindu culture is not the same as destroying obstacles in the Yoruba culture... This is the problem with just doing some random searches on the internet or trying to create a spiritual discipline from generalities from a book. If you are working with dieties, again it is best to pick ONE diety at a time, Because each diety relates to different organs, and energy centers. Again.. Dieties are given personalities for a reason. Not all people get along well. If you sre invoking two different dieties from different cultures, you need to be sure they will get along. Always best to seek qualified instruction. If you randomly pick traditions, dieties etc... you are at best confusing the energies you invoke and at worst can be causing yourself great harm. When we go to a doctor and get prescribed medication, we take that pretty seriously. For the same reason that we do not mix prescription medication without asking a physician's advice, we should not mix traditions, mantras and energy practices haphazardly or without guidance...

Mewtwo, It's not difficult to be certified or trained. There are many good programs out there that are inexpensive and not very time consuming. "Knowing stuff about meditations" is a great beginning and may indicate that you are meant to be spiritual teacher, but you are being of better service to yourself and to all those you would like to help if you learned a specific tradition or method from a qualified teacher. If however, you just start teaching people some random meditations simply because you want to earn easy money... you might be harming people. This is the reason people on the forum are not taking your request seriously. If you take your calling seriously and do what you need to in order to follow your calling, then people will respond to you better... I understand your desire to make a living doing something you enjoy. But you will feel alot better about what you are doing if you make a real commitment to learn something you respect.

Call them and ask about their program...

Here is one great resource http://www.taostudies.com/

From what I have heard... It is well "rumored" that Chia stole much, if not all, of his info from One Cloud's (I think is his name) manuscripts without having him explain what they mean. So Chia did his best to try and figure out the manuscript on his own.. Most taoist manuscripts are written in code with at least one or two things left out that have to be explained by a lineage holder. Without a lineage holder to explain the missing or "poetic" secrets in the text, you have at best an incomplete system... Chia has been busted for outright plagiarism. The main problem for me with Chia is twofold: 1) His teachings have really damaged alot of people, and 2) There's no way to know what of his teachings is directly and accurately taught from a valid teacher and what is stuff Chia stole, got totally wrong or outright made up. Just got this from a search... http://www.healingtaousa.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl?smessage=990

No need. We each have made ourselves quite clear... Blessings and best of Luck to you, Mike

OK, I was mistaken... I'm not done for today... Secular, I know you think I am mad at you and arguing with you... I am not. I think you really do want to learn. You have obviously put alot of time into your private studies and practice. I believe that underneath it all, you really want to break out and find a real teacher. You are honest enough to verbalize what many people won't which is that they are too lazy to take the risk. It is very safe to stay at home alone and pick and choose what you want to learn by yourself with no one to challenge you if you do it incorrectly or if you are not motivated to be consistent. But if you find a real Tao teacher he or she may totally transform your life and you will have grow beyond (as you put it) "The comfort of your home." That is not easy or comfortable. If you are looking for a comfortable path, Taoism is not the way to go. Unless of course all you want is to read some books or listen to some CD's. No Taoist master has ever grown without literally dying for their knowledge. So, then plant a money tree in your yard and it will... Maybe you might consider transforming your world. Your taoist training is primarily about transformation. If don;t have money... DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO TO GET IT. If you do not have this mindset, you will not be successful in your meditations... In my world, as long as I was willing to take action, the Universe has always given me everything I need to learn regardless of how much money I did or did not have and has rewarded me for taking risks, investing and making sacrifices. I have gone in debt numerous times to travel and learn. Some of the people on this forum know what agony I have had to endure with some of my teachers in order to learn. I would do it all again if I had to... I never let the thought "I can't" stop me. I can guarantee you that the authors of these books you read weren't rich either and had to do the same to learn their craft. I am willing to bet they sacrificed a great deal to learn the knowledge that you only read about. I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks that learning must be handed to them. It has never been that way. True knowledge never will be. There will always be sacrifice for true learning. It may not cost money, but it always requires sacrifice... There is a saying.. "you get what you pay for..." If you are not willing to sacrifice or work for what you want... You won't get anything of value. It's not about money. If one thinks money does not grow on trees... Then it will ALWAYS be hard to get. As a teacher, I take very few students for this very reason... In my experience, western students, (especially americans) suffer from a combination of an attitude of entitlement and a victim mentality. (Which I think are two sides of the same coin.) If someone wants to train with me, They must show me that they will value what I teach them and put it into practice. If a few hundred dollars is enough to keep them from training with me, Then they will not value the teaching. If a teacher hands you knowledge without requiring some sacrifice (whether in sweat, money or patience, then they either have not learned anything or they are ripping you off.) I not only have the nerve, I have the knowledge and the experience to tell you with absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say.... And you're damn right I encourage people to quit their jobs for Taoism, buddhism hinduism or any other "ism" that might give them a hope of liberation if their job is the only reason they are not learning.... If someone feels that they have to choose between what they desire and a "job", yes, please chuck the job and go after what you want...

Yet (according to you) you yourself have never trained with a teacher... So you don't know whether training by yourself is actually as good or better. I have done both. I know the difference.. I have no problem if people want to learn on their own. That's their business expecially if it just philosphical taoism. I AM against anyone telling others they DON'T need a teacher. It is very irresponsible and possibly dangerous if it involves energy training... Because you're a big boy/girl. do it yourself. If you're not interested, then don't bother... I've had numerous teachers and I hope to have more. Who they are is none of your business. Those who train with me can meet them.. I paid whatever they asked? What difference? Why do you keep bringing up money? Do you train with books and CD's because you think it's cheaper? Is it a money issue? There you go again... How do you know what they would say? You are not their student. You only read their books.. Why don't you ask them if they think that someone can't find a teacher. They would tell you that either they or their certified instructors are easily available. Unless someone is an invalid, It is almost impossible for someone to NOT be able to find a teacher... If you don;t have the money, get a job?... If you don't have time, quit your job... If there were no books or CD's, what would you do? You'd have to put some effort into it... You couldn't be MORE wrong.... Take a look at all the people on this forum complaining about life threatening illnesses and issues as a result of sitting meditations they learned from books... With all kindness, I tell you... You do NOT know what you are talking about here... Look, I have no wish to be drawn into a semantics argument. You're probably a nice person and you have every right to read as many books as you want and not find a teacher. If you had just recommended books. I would have said nothing. But, you have no business telling people they don't need a teacher just because that is what you choose to do... Despite how I sound, it is not an ego issue for me. I have been harmed in the past by solo book learning and I don't want others to go through what I had to... It's not necessary. there are people on this forum that can safely teach authentic traditions... But learning energy techniques without the guidance of a live teacher can be downright lethal! I recommend many of them, but any of them can be very harmful if done wrong and no practice should be undertaken for any serious length of time without personal guidance. This is not the way Taoism was practiced EVER... until very recently.... Seriously, that's all for me on this thread for today...