fiveelementtao

Spirit Ape, I understand your questions. I know from Mao Mountain Demon Fighting that consent is not part of the equation. If you want to zap someone, there's nothing anyone can do about it. Max is using (at least) two different types of energy. The Kunlun energy is very blissful and requires some consent on the receiver, The Mao Mountain type of energy does not. I have seen Max use the Mao energy in ways I had heard about but never seen. Max whacked me a couple times with the Tao Ga energy and it had nothing to do with my consent. Max also did a kunlun energy "trick" on me. I immediately felt it in my chest but I also had control over whether or not I wanted to receive it. I accepted it partway, but when he was pushing me to the floor, I was able to resist it. I know for myself that I have taken a vow never to use the Demon Fighting energy on anyone unless they are my student or if I am in physical danger. So, if Max has taken the same vow, he's not going to unleash the Mao Energy on someone unless they are his student. And if someone wants to fight him, he probably will decline. So, really, the only way you're going to know whether or not it is real is if you can experience it first hand with a non-confrontational attitude. and any conclusions you "think" you know are pure conjecture until you meet him. But, if you're looking to start something or have an attitude, he'll know and show you nothing.... so, why not solve the mystery and check it out and then you'll know.

No they don't. John Chang is a "bottom up" energy system. Max's is a "top down" energy system. there are other differences, but that is the main general difference. I agree that they ultimately achieve the same general objective, but it is a different method...

I recommend Chia's stuff to people looking for a general introductory energy system. If you have no teacher I think it's worth a shot. After you get more in depth, you may want to find a live teacher. Many on this board have used Chia's stuff with great success. It works well with the stuff I learned, which is not easy to do. This water method you mention sounds interesting to me though...

I find it interesting that all of the "Daoist" martial arts at some point have a story where someone learned the art from a wandering Daoist monk. As we all have heard each of these arts has some secret schools or techniques that are very hard to find. It makes me wonder, If these stories are true that each of the Daoist martial arts came from some anonymous daoist monk, what did the secret art they learned look like. I found this vid on youtube. It's cool to see some serious applications to Tai Chi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBA7LsumNGs...feature=related

You are exactly right! The power and speed of this art comes from the power of the feminine (Yin).

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Riveting! Thank you for sharing that experience with us, Stig...

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You said I didn't understand you. So I gave you a chance to make yourself clear. I think I do understand you, then...

either that or I have come to believe that he is the representative of the Real Taoism on Earth. Always good to hedge your bets.

What do you think?

If you visit Mak Tin Si's Site, you will know what I'm talking about. It is very informative http://www.taoismcanada.com

I think that's the point. Just because someone is following a Taoist interpretation of religion does not cure them of their humanity. Again, we need to look at our own individual presuppositions. If we are seeking a spiritual way that will ultimately "Save" us, that is what we will project onto our chosen path. What I appreciate about taoism is that it is not a rigid system of Right and wrong. The reality of Taoism is that it is our choice how "Pure" we want to be. IMHO this is true in all paths, but it is easier to delude oneself into believing that one is more pure or holy in some other religions. When someone has the mindset, "I follow Buddha or Jesus or Krisha therefore he will purify me and save me." it is easier to stay in denial about the "negative" aspects of our psyche. In Taoism, I am responsible for my actions and if I want to progress, it is up to me to use the tools that taoists have discovered. I am a little hesitant when people project an inherent purity on to Taoism. I believe that this presupposition can lead to self-denial. I prefer to have nature act like an unbiased mirror and allow me to make my own choices... The consequences of not being "Pure" are obvious, But if I blindly accept another's view of purity, I am not growing. I prefer a Universe that promotes experimentation and self-discovery...

Mak Tin Si, Will you please tell us what the phrase "Tin Si" means. Also please us the story of how you became the living representative of the Taoism Religion on Earth. We all need instruction on how to be True Taoists. Thank You

This is a GREAT discussion. As in all important matters of discussion, it is important to first isolate and define our presuppositions. What is an immortal? Is it an energetic or "Spiritual" (moral) state of being? Is an immortal someone who has refined their nature and is "good"? Can someone cultivate enough energy to switch dimensions if they are "evil"? I believe our individual answers to these questions will determine our individual presuppositions. I think it is important to make a distinction between "Buddha" and a Daoist "immortal". A daoist immortal is a human who has, through energetic cultivation achieved long physical life and/or raised their energy level to a point where He/She can phase themselves out of this earthly dimension to a "higher" one. Buddha is said to be an avatar of the Pure Vishnu principle of the Universe. It has a deep connection to Hindu theology and is not the same as a Daoist Immortal. It is conceivable in Buddhist and Hindu tradition for someone to achieve a very high level of energy cultivation and become an immortal and still not have the buddha nature. Many hindu demons are immortals who are extremely powerful but still trapped in their lower spiritual natures. I can state categorically from my experience with my teachers that Taoists are capable of achieving unbelievable energetic heights. They can easily be mistaken for Divine beings becase of their powers. I trained with one Tao master who was one of these. He died and resurrected himself and was capable of amazing energetic feats, but he was also one of the most emotionally immature and destructive people I have ever known. His energetic accomplishments trapped him in his pride. He was also one of the most unhappy persons I have known. Lonely, bitter and extremely insecure. He may become an immortal, but he is no Buddha. I believe that many people strive for energetic cultivation because they believe that once they achieve "immortal" status they will be free from pain and strife. I thought this way until I trained for many years with this man. I no longer think this. In fact, I believe that if one were to achieve this status without learning the important lessons of love, humility and kindness, that being an "evil" immortal in the next dimension would be a very lonely hell...

Thank you! Well said!

So, then help me understand. You started this thread. It's your responsibility to make yourself clear. You also didn't answer my question. Are you Max's student?

Benny, I am getting the feeling that you are probably a teenager who is desparate for attention and guidance. If you want someone to teach you the Tao (if such a thing can be taught ). I'm sure if you just asked, many would respond to help you. There are no "poor, downtrodden, or dispossessed." This is an illusion coming from your own projection. Do you feel you are a victim? There is no place for victims in Tao. I will give you your first free lesson in Tao.... YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM UNLESS YOU CHOOSE TO BE. Way of eternal life???? the Tao is not a religion to save people from their sins... You have a major misconception about what the Tao is. All of us have access to it. Your eternal soul has no need for Taoist teachings. If you need something to save your soul and grant you eternal life, you need a different religion. If you truly study Tao, you should know you have eternity within you at all times... If you think that Taoist teachers are teaching the way to eternal life, you will be sadly disappointed, my friend. Now you are being honest. If you had been humble enough to state that from the beginning, I wouldn't have cared. Someone would have helped you understand your misconception. This birthright you speak of has nothing to do with what people teach in Taoism. I can tell you from experience having studied with a few "masters", that Taoist masters are subject to the same frailties and pitfalls as anyone else. Taoism cannot "Save" anyone from anything. Pride, ego, fear, insecurity, selfishness and delusion are all challenges we all face whether we are teachers or students. What people charge money for are skills like Tai Chi, Chi Kung, meditation, rituals, mantras etc... which they have worked very hard to learn or discover. They have a right to be compensated for their time. These skills are only helpful tools along the path, they are not the path. But you are right in that none of those skills will insulate them from their own limitations. I am afraid you, my friend, are the passive one here. throwing out threats of Doom and guilt is extremely passive aggressive. If you look for greedy Tao masters who hide the secrets of "eternal life" from you. That is what you will find. If you look for friendly guides to help you uncover the eternal divinity within, then you will find that. It's up to you what you will discover. Wait a minute..... Are you one of Max's students?

you still haven't answered any questions. Whom are you messenger for? What gives you the right to give this "warning?" Be a man and back up what you say and stop hiding behind your false humility...

So, maybe your teachers should pay YOU? I am amazed that people think that they are doing teachers a favor by allowing them to teach. This is a very westernized concept. In the traditional way, you had to bust your ass, to get anyone to teach you. You not only paid money, you gave up your career and life if necessary and became their personal servants. we don't have to do that anymore... Paying a few dollars is nothing compared to what it cost to learn in times past... People are now teaching their hard earned skills for sometimes only $10 or $15 a class and you feel you are getting ripped off! I suppose you feel your doctor, plumber, builder, dentist should go and "Get off their ass and get a job" and then come and help you in their spare time for FREE? Of course not. Hey idiot! Teaching IS their job, you moron. If you don't want to pay anything to learn a priceless art, then don't! You don't deserve to be a student if that is your attitude. (Harumph!)

What do you mean you have no answers? What a cop out! If you are spreading warnings of doom, at least have the BALLS to be able to answer for it. For Whom are you a messenger? Who gives you the right to say such things? If anyone here is in danger of a fiery condemnation my friend, it is you! If I were a christian I would accuse you of blasphemy. So, what is it you expect? a free ride? we should teach you for free? So, people here who have trained hard and sometimes paid a great deal of money to learn this knowledge for many years should then turn around and hand it to you for NOTHING! You know the old saying? you get what you pay for. I think you may need some education. 1st. There has always been a rule of exchange. There has to be an exchange of energy. In times past, some students were not charged money. BUT there was always an exchange. In previous cultures, if there was a shaman or Tao master, the village would provide him with offerings for his livelihood, and in exchange he would teach and heal. So, he was paid for his service ALWAYS. In the monasteries, do you think the monks were learning for free because they didn't have to pay money? they paid with their service. they had to farm or work or beg or something to bring in money and supplies for the temple. Are you prepared to become someone's servant and work full time for free in exchange for lessons? Because that is what you are proposing. It is much cheaper now to pay someone a few measly dollars for a lesson and go home with priceless knowledge than to give up your life and become a servant in exchange for learning. What about today? Today we use money to obtain food and shelter. In our culture people do not set up teachers with free housing and food. Money is the modern vehicle for exchange. teachers deserve to be able to eat and have a roof over their head. Should they be homeless and beg so that you can have free Tao lessons? It's one thing for you to say that you think people should teach for free, I would simply write it off as innocent ignorance, but when you come on here pretending to be an old testament prophet of doom threatening people with damnation for making an honest living providing a valuable service, I say SHAME ON YOU COWARD!

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Mak Tin Si, Thank you for your answer. Will you please explain more about tolerance for other religions. Is Taoism superior to other religions?

The distinction only needs to be made in the context of the original question posed on this thread. My intent was to only answer why martial arts are important in relation to inner alchemy in taoism. internal MAs are very helpful in chi cultivation. I was not trying to make a statement of superiority between one or another...

Elegantly put, Dwai, thank you for your explanation of your school's explanation on the origin of Tai Chi. very informative and beautiful.