fiveelementtao

Actually Spirit Ape, now that I think about it there ARE other forms of Tao Ga. Arthur Lee was taught a modified form of Tao Ga by Lum Tai Young. He calls it Shao Lin Fut Ga, It is not Shao Lin of course, but that's because Lum Tai young told him it was Shao Lin in order to hide the original heritage. And I also heard of another teacher in Hong Kong who teaches an art he calls Tao Ga. I have no idea if it is related to Lum's Tao Ga.

I am not familiar with those disciplines so I cannot say. Lum Tai Young taught many different versions of Tao Ga to different people (As does Andrew Lum). I have seen forms that are very physical and other versions that look more like a shamanic dance. And even within the same forms there are different schools. I know of Monkey king style and Kwan Yin style. I was taught Kwan Yin style. So, depending on who was taught what, the same form could look completely different. But, to casual the observer, yes the Tao Ga forms look similar to other internal Martial Arts forms.

No there is at least one other system taught by another student of Lum sifu... But it is a closed door class.

Tao Ga is Lum family martial arts that are based on "other" practices...

I had been introduced to the standing jongs before but not Golden flower

A very good question, Cat! The short version: "I don't know." The long version: (My opinion only) I have only recently begun making a determined effort to make a distinction between the energies. I can definitely tell you that kundalini is NOT a chi type of energy. Kundalini seems to be most connected to the aspect of personality development. To me, that corresponds to the "something" aspect of the equation. In order to have a human personality one must identify with being "something". The MS stuff seems to bypass that altogether and go straight to "nothingness" (but the human personality can tag along if it wants to and has the strength.) My experience with the "other" energy is that it greatly amplifies whatever energy you are working with. That is why I stopped mixing sanskrit Mantra with Tao Ga. This may also be why Max teaches RP before kunlun. It probably amplifies the power of kunlun to help facilitate transmission. ( I have no idea, I'm just guessing). My theory as to why most arts start by being "something" is that this is for protection. The advanced "other" stuff has the potential to be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Simply because it is not necessary to go through all the emotional and psychological barriers to energetic power. Whereas to make any real energetic progress with yoga, one must face their psychological issues and reduce their personality attachments before the energy flows. This is not the case with MS. MS (in my experience) however will shatter conventional reality. The issue here is that one must have a very strong constitution or they will crap their energetic pants. Most people fail on the M S path not because it is too hard. No, it is actually a very simple path. People fail because it is too frightening. This may be another reason why Max chooses to merge kunlun (bliss) with MS (reality busting). ( again, I'm just guessing here, I can't speak for Max) So, to finally answer your question, I think that the kundalini may be awakened through practices like Kunlun but that it is a secondary side effect. However, I don't know. Kundalini is definitely a "human" energy and M S is not. (I'm too young on the kunlun path to make an accurate assessment other than it feels good ) Sorry for rambling....

I had recently heard an interesting parallel of Jesus and Krishna. Certainly Jesus can be viewed as an avatar of Vishnu. But, the virgin birth, the evil king killing babies in order to destroy the child foretold in prophecy etc... are similar story lines shared by each. Kinda makes one wonder if Vishnu suits up in this same drama for different cultures....

Thanks, Chris. See you there!

OK some Kunlun questions. Mantra, I'm hoping you will read this... 2ndly, Unfortunately, I do not have access to Sifu Lum because of old school traditional protocol. So, I cannot ask him for other meditations for the Tao Ga practices. I plan on going to Portland in October for the kunlun seminar but I am also hoping that I can ask Sifu Max some questions. from your experiences, What is the likelihood that Max will allow me to chat with him ? He may be the only person besides Sifu Lum that can help me. Thanks, Shabd

It depends on what you want to achieve. (if you are trying to live a life full of egoless happiness, health, wealth, truth, respect and bliss.) All of those things can be accomplished without being a taoist. So, what's the real issue? If you want real power in internal martial arts or in internal alchemy, at some point males will need to practice celibacy for a time. But, there are many ways to conserve jing and still enjoy sex and even have orgasms. (John Chang had a family and children. Lu Zijian had children. Li Ching-Yun had tons of children over the span of his minimally 170 year old life.) Yes, but I am quite sure that each of them practiced celibacy for some period (s) during their lifetime. This sounds like a moral dilemma for you. If you're just looking to enjoy life and be at peace, why even bother with torturing yourself. If you're trying to be the next John Chang, you will have to be celibate for some period in time. If you just want to live a taoist philosophy, then do what is natural for YOU.

Well Genuine, That's quite a tall order. Taoism and Buddhism are two distinct philosophies. It would be pert near impossible to learn "everything there is to know" just about one of these traditions not to mention everything about both. Just to learn everything there is to about Taoism would not be possible. Within Taoism are many different and sometimes conflicting sects and practices. Same is true for Buddhism. If you are looking for intellectual knowledge, there are alot of books out there. But, I suspect you may have a slight misunderstanding of the purposes of both Taoism and Buddhism. These are fundamentally an experiential wisdom. So, I would recommend picking one tradition and then finding a practice within that tradition. And unfortunately the best way to learn is to focus on one practice for many years. so, just pick a practice and a teacher that speaks to you and go from there. Then the journey only begins. on the other hand, there is the scholarly/Intellectual approach. With that you can study the intellectual philosophies of both and get a pretty good overall understanding. But, I believe that people who take this approach are really missing the point. For me, Taoism starts with the energetic practice, once progress is made there, then the intellectual understandings begin to come. But, for me, the intellectual ideas without the energetic experience is useless. Eastern buddhism already has alot of Taoist principles infused in it, but taoism doesn't necessarily have buddhist ideas. So, I guess if you wanted the best of both worlds, I would try an eastern buddhist practice like Zen or Shaolin buddhism, because eventually some taoism will seep in. By the way, if you are able to learn EVERYTHING there is to know about either one of these traditions in one lifetime, I think you will be the first to do so. my .02

The golden flower meditation in max's latest book is from Andrew Lum. If Max has another golden flower meditation, I don't know about that. I am only familiar with his latest book. I'm trying to find out exactly what he knows from Andrew Lum. I'm trying to fill in the gaps in my own Mao Shan training.

(do you know if it has all the 5 element standing and golden flower?) I doubt it SpiritApe. The 5 element postures and golden flower meditations are from Andrew Lum.

Hi, I'm new here. They tell me I have to post an intro in order to post. So, here goes: I have been practicing Tao Ga Kung Fu for 15 years. I also practice Kundalini Yoga and meditation as well as West African Shamanic Drumming. I found this while investigating Kunlun.

Try Taoist institute of North Hollywood