fiveelementtao

As I understand it, from your post, you are considering suicide to reduce or eliminate your pain. Yes? So, the only real question is, Will committing suicide reduce your pain or not?.. The most logical and practical argument for not killing oneself for me comes from the school of thought that says that we all made the choice to incarnate as humans before we were born and we chose our life circumstances in order to learn and grow. According to this school of thought, if we commit suicide, then we are sabotaging the lessons that we chose to learn and therefore, we will have to come back and learn the same lessons again only in harsher conditions. If this is true, then suicide will not reduce our pain but instead increase it next time around. So, I say, be selfish and think it through logically, "Am I absolutely sure that suicide will reduce my pain?" If you cannot say "Yes" to that question, then it seems the logical thing to do would be to seek to learn the lessons and grow from them otherwise, you may be making it much harder for yourself next time around. There are of course many other reasons not to commit suicide, but in your current state of mind, you might find them to be cheesy or guilt motivated. And even if we do experience pain in life, there are people who seem genuinely happy. So, I think a better use of energy is to ask why others are happy and what do they do differently than me?

Hi Matt, I am assuming that you are being serious. If so, you should know that the "curse" thing is a typical scam that fake psychics drop onto potential victims. Money and relationships are problems for everybody. Don't buy into it. The next thing they do is want you to give them some cash so they can do a ritual. Then they keep asking for more money to relieve the curses. People have lost thousands on that scam. The only curses we have are the ones we put on ourselves. The best thing you can do to relieve any life challenges is just work to be a conscious person and fearlessly face your issues. IME, another good remedy is to see a vedic astrologer and find out some good mantras or meditations to appease any planetary issues. But whatever you do don't go back to that psychic... peace, Mike

There is more than one type of belief in reincarnation. I am of the belief that doctrines are things we should use to help us live happier lives. So, be creative and allow yourself to believe what helps you enjoy life the most. I am of the unorthodox belief that the challenges in our lives are thing we have CHOSEN to experience. I see earthly life as a school. I agree that if challenges are some kind of punishment, that it feels very cruel to me. But, if this life is more like a video game where while we are in the game it feels really intense, but as soon as our last guy is killed, we say, "that was fun! let's go again." That gives me a sense of empowerment. Many of the orthodox doctrines of reincarnation feel like punishment to me so I do not adopt them. I prefer to adopt beliefs that I find to be pro-active in helping me in life rather than explanations that simply give me some kind of intellectual safety but may tend to limit me into a reality I don't like so much. For me the belief in reincarnation is not something I worship. I do not know if it is true. I believe it is. But even if it isn't, I am searching for ways that I can empower myself as much as possible in order to be as happy and successful as I can be. For me believing that everything in my life is a choice that I made before coming into this virtual reality game called human life gives me mindset that seeks to enjoy and benefit from everything I experience. And it has helped me work through challenges much faster than before. I don't think the guilt trip is very helpful. IMO and IME. my .02

Never mind..

(sigh) K I get it that your parents shoved their opinion down your throat and blamed you for everything. I also get it that I remind you of them in how I share my opinions. But I am not blaming you for what you have lived through. I am sharing what has worked for me. It is frustrating to me as I read your posts that it seems that any time someones suggests to you (especially me) that you are responsible for everything in your life that you can only hear it as blame or criticism and spend your energy defending yourself and intellectually arguing against what you "do and don't believe in" instead of focusing on the merits of what people are saying. I think Manitou is explaining the concept very well and in a very compassionate way, so perhaps I should give the floor to her. So, I will retire from this thread. Good luck...

What I have communicated is my own belief based on my experience. I haven't stated "this is the way it is." So, again I think you are projecting your own personal reactions on others here. It might be helpful if you related this to you. I get that you feel that I communicate in a way that puts you on the defensive. So, instead of saying generalized statements of fact for "other" people. Why not state how it makes YOU feel. This is part of taking responsibility. Are you saying that YOU are still enmeshed in dysfunctional circumstances and the space for misunderstanding is huge for YOU? If that is true, then owning that for yourself in a responsible way helps others (me) to communicate to you in way that you can hear it. Otherwise it is just comes across to me as a judgement and a condemnation. OK, I'm not following the logic here... How is sharing what works practically for me not helpful to others? They can take it or leave it. I was very clear about that. If your current relationships and circumstances are a result of choices YOU made before being born, then that knowledge frees you to examine WHY you chose to be with certain people in this life and how you can grow from the challenges. But one would have to be willing to let go of protecting their victimhood. Call it however you want. How is it that some people just happen to be in others' viewfinders and others are not? whatever semantics you use to describe it, the concept of "just being in others' viewfinder" still ends up being that you are a powerless victim of circumstance. I sense that the real issue is that you want to be free of this but you are still protective of the idea of being a target or a victim or whatever and how does that help you in life? K- what I am hearing in most of your statements regarding what I have shared is that you feel that I am so powerful that if I state my experience that somehow just that act alone has the power to completely disempower others from making their own conclusions. What I am really sensing here is that whatever my dynamic is, that it pushes old childhood buttons in you from your past. I don't have the power to destroy others opinions or cause them harm by sharing my opinions. People are free to make their own conclusions. Sharing in a clear straightforward way what has worked for me cannot harm anyone. So is this really about me or about how your parents treated you? and isn't that the real cause for learning how to become a target and a victim? K - I am being honest and straightforward with you and I know that I may push your buttons and you may think I am an opinionated A-hole, but I think you are asking these questions because underneath it all you really want to find the power to change your life. You seem very protective of your victimhood and are defensive when others give you options to the contrary. It is easy to react defensively and feel criticized when people point out your protectiveness of your victimhood. But how does that serve you? Why ask the questions if you are not willing to consider them. So, why not throw off the personal difficulty when people like me don't communicate in the exact manner you wish and simply focus on the meat of the message and give it a try even if it is outside of your experience? What have you got to lose?

I was hoping K would respond in the hopes of stimulating a dialogue. @marble...I do understand what K is saying. I am merely reflecting the unnecessary hyperbole she used to defend her position. I don't believe for a second that K actually believes that people can cause harm or illness to others by taking responsibility for their own lives. K mentioned the dynamic of feeling responsible for the behavior of others... I lived through a dysfunctional family dynamic so I can understand the co-dependent nature of feeling responsible for the dysfunction of family members. But taking responsibility for oneself is not the same as being blamed by another. I understand why some may have that reflexive reaction. But IME it is a defense mechanism. However there is a HUGE difference between taking responsibility for the behavior of others and taking responsibility for one's own reactions to that behavior. In terms of being a target, none can say that a child is responsible for being targeted by a parent. But once we are adults we do have a choice in terms of continuing to choose to view ourselves as a target. It is a very effective defense mechanism to continue to reinforce a perception of being targeted in order to try and counteract the abusive blame that parents often ascribe to the children they abuse. However, it is merely an extension of that same tactic when we as adults continue to blame our parents for their abusiveness. It is also a choice. Every time we relive those memories and we choose to perceive ourselves as helpless victims, we reinforce that perception. That is a choice. This is one reason I firmly believe in reincarnation. Because from our limited perception there are helpless victims in this world. So, either there is a past-life karmic cause for these things or the Universe is unjust. It doesn't make sense to me that we live in an unjust Universe, so the only logical conclusion for me is to assume that there must be some past life karmic lesson that I have chosen to revisit in this life in order to learn from it. It has helped me considerably is to consider that perhaps any challenges I have had in life are a result my pre-birth choice to grow in that area in this incarnation. It is very empowering to me because if I assume that it was my choice to learn this lesson, then I automatically seek to find ways to grow beyond my challenges. I view this earthly life as being a school that I have chosen to participate in. Some have chosen more difficult life lessons than others. Now, I can't prove any of this is true, but ultimately I don't care because I have proven to myself in my life that simply the act of adopting the attitude of responsibility only helps me. Choosing to stay victimized does not help me. But each choice has it's downside. Choosing to stay victimized is easier but, then one tends to keep attracting scenarios of victimization and that's no fun. If the Universe is trying to help us grow past our challenges, then it only makes sense that the Universe will keep putting us into scenarios that repeat the same lessons until we choose to face them. Choosing to adopt an attitude of responsibility is very empowering, BUT the downside is that one must be willing to fully face and mourn over the pain they have experienced and then one must have the bravery to overcome those challenges. That is harder than staying a victim. So, regardless of the truth of these attitudes, I am only concerned with what helps me on a practical level. I also believe that since we have all chosen our lot in life before we even got here, that while I can sympathize with the lot of others, I do not believe it serves them for me to join in with them in any attitudes of victimization. They will either choose to grow beyond their current state or they will not. I will do what I can to encourage those who choose to take the warrior path and grow past their challenges. If not, I will not reinforce their choice to avoid the lessons they themselves have chosen. This may seem cruel to others, but for me, it is the kindest tactic I know of...

K- let me be sure I am understanding you before I respond... Are you really trying to suggest that I have "battered" others by taking responsibility for my own life? Have I really "precipitated further illness and hardship" on others by choosing to take full responsibility for my own circumstances? Have I truly "taken away someone's sovereignty" by stating that I am responsible for all the circumstances in my life? If I'm hearing you right, then you're saying that the act of me taking responsibility for my life will result in more people being victimized and therefore I should become a victim too in order to prevent further misery...

IMO and IME much of the time.. yes. So, Vaj... Nothing personal my friend, but once again your post is too long for me to read effectively and I do find your approach often times to be very intellectual. I'm happy if it works for you, and I know that forums are fun for people for this very reason, but IME many times people are just as addicted to over-intellectualizing simple concepts as some are to drugs. I try to keep my spirituality as simple and practical as I can. Otherwise for me, it is a waste of valuable time and energy. No offense Vaj, but I don't want to get into big debate over this...Just thought I would share my experience in case it would be helpful to others similar to myself... Take it if it helps, leave it if it doesn't.

Another way to look at the issue is to simply accept full responsibility for everything that you experience. Otherwise, if there are things that we experience that we don't like for whatever reason, then we are merely victims of circumstance. If on the other hand, we can take full responsibility for all the circumstances in our lives, then our attitudes will be focused on how we can change that reality. If things are challenging, then we can enjoy the possibility that we have chosen challenging circumstances in order to grow. For me, all the intellectual gymnastics trying to understand the concept is a waste of energy. I have proven to myself through experience that I am responsible for everything in my life. I don't have to know why or how I manifest everything in my life. Taking an attitude of responsibility and seeking to find ways to change my circumstances is far more empowering than being a victim or intellectually masturbating over it...IME, I find that if I do accept that I am responsible for everything that my life improves. But, it does take courage and one must be willing to experience their own pain and underlying issues. Some schools of ayurveda teach that all illness is really an entity that has been invited into the body either unconsciously or consciously in order to shield the "victim" from other internal emotional issues that they are knowingly or unknowingly seeking to protect. Being a victim is a very powerful drug and for many is preferrable to the pain of facing one's issues... my.02

The best advice I can give you since you are brand new is... Find someone in your area and train IN PERSON with a qualified teacher. Whether that be yoga, Tai Chi, Qigong, meditation... Whatever. BEFORE you start looking for the "fastest, best way" etc... If you are prepared to work as hard as you say, you can put some effort into finding a teacher. Get some fundamental knowledge before trying to become an overnight expert from books or videos...After getting some basics understood, THEN you will be better equipped to start experimenting with books or videos...

Completely depends on the system you practice. It is totally unnecessary in my system to regulate sex, You can have a normal sex life and make great progress in cultivation. As YaMu already said, a good relationship has its own cultivation benefits. My energy and power is greater now than when I was single and celibate. Drugs and alcohol however, in my system... not so good.

I don't know all of what may be causing your situation, so I agree that it is a good idea to see an acupuncturist or a qualified medical qigong specialist. Having said that, it definitely sounds like you need alot of grounding. Here is a meditation that has been very helpful for me in grounding my energies...

Good Question! Yes, tongue on the roof of the mouth is the preferred default position unless breathing out of the mouth like in the Earth Breath. good eye! Thanks, Mike

Wow! Thanks for the great review! Feel free to contact me with any other questions... Mike I have numerous free meditations on the web, Here are two variations of one of them:

I stand corrected yet again... I've pretty much made my point. I was responding to your questions... No need to repeat myself...

Hi K, I agree with you that things unfold as karma dictates. So Yes nothing is accidental. That is not how I'm using the word here. I'm using the term "accidental" because it was used by others to describe ways in which Kundalini arises spontaneously which includes trauma and accident. That's how I mean accidental. It is not a judgement. I am fully aware that it may be within one's karma or destiny to have Kundalini awaken spontaneously. Your experience sounded like one of these types of spontaneous awakenings and as you seemed to indicate it was not pleasant. And so, everyone's experience is valid. And everything unflods as it is meant. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to evaluate and continue to study and learn. It seems that everytime I speak on Kundalini people feel the need to defend their experience. That may be my fault because I can come across as overbearing and opinionated. (Which I guess I am). But, I still find it confusing that people seem to NOT want to understand more about Kundalini. Some have even bragged that they they don't know the traditional sources of Kundalini and further don't WANT to know. I don't understand this. How can an expert in anything NOT want to know more about their area of expertise. And then people want to label me as elitist... Anyway, I digress I am saying that there is a definite difference between the effects of spontaneous kundalini Awakenings whether that be through trauma or energy techniques and other more orthodox methods. That's all. And yes every experience is valid. But why not learn other methods that do not have all the crazy side effects? For some they had no choice in the matter. But others who have not had spontaneous kundalini awakenings are seeking it out and can choose how they awaken her... So, K, I would like to have a discussion about this with you if that is what you want, but I get the feeling that what is really happening is that my statements have been perceived as some kind of attack on your or your teachers and the discussion is really an attempt to validate your experience. If so, I apologize. Everyone wants to feel validated in their own experiences. So, I am not completely clear if your motivations to engage with me are to defend a perceived attack by me on your experiences or your teachers or if you want to investigate the other aspects to Kundalini that I am bringing up. If your main desire is to defend your experiences and that of your teachers, we won't get very far because every alternative method I bring up will just then be perceived as an attack and we will go in circles saying the same thing to each other... So, I guess if you are wanting to engage in a discussion, let's determine why? To learn more or to defend our own positions?

Hi K, It is not my intention to tell anyone not to do anything. If I have come across that way, then that is my fault in not communicating my intentions clearly. Wouldn't be the first time... As I said, I have come to realize that I was unconsciously communicating anger... However, I laid out some pretty clear instructions on how to awaken Kundalini in this post. Through a combination of ritual, mantra, tantra and meditation. That seemed to ruffle some feathers for some reason... I myself do teach Kundalini practices, but I do so from within a ritual context. The free HUUL breath meditation I teach online is a kundalini practice. If someone were to practice that meditation and mantra with intent, it will awaken kundalini. But you have the diety to guide you through the process. And the deity IS the Kundalini. But instead of having random energy symptoms, the individual only experiences a communion with the goddess. So, there is no need to advertise it as Kundalini practice because the Kundalini rises naturally as a result of the practice. Any Goddess or deity worship will awaken Kundalini. and as I said before, the deity becomes the vessel through which the Kundalini expresses Herself and is very safe. Without that the Kundalini has no way to interface with the human personality and this can cause many of the problematic symptoms people associate with Kundalini awakening. I don't know the context of this statement, but it appears to fit within my definition of accidental, spontaneous or passive kundalini awakening. While it is actually a very good thing that there are teachers familiar with dealing with this. This is what I define as "damage control." As I said earlier, the reason why this is not the desired path is because without the framework of a deity to control the Shakti, it is chaotic and can be very destructive. So, from what I can tell alot of the modern western Kundalini technique oriented practices, that we have alot of people awakening their Kundalini in this fashion. I agree with you that we need a second chance of a relationship to the Mother and I encourage that. I am encouraging Kundalini awakening. I just prefer the traditional method of deity worship and ritual. Shamanism does this or any of the other traditions do this. Qigong, meditation and all the energy stuff we modern westerners play around with now was originally done from within a shamanic or animist framework. IME, energy practices are more powerful safe and fulfilling from within these frameworks... I don;t know if I addressed your statement or not... Mike

Thanks Cowtao for your observations. I think what I have realized is that I have very strong feelings about Mother Kundalini. And I have strong reactions to what I perceive as discussions where She is being talked about disrespectfully in the 3rd person. One reason I have not taught anything about Kundalini is because I realize that I really DO see Her as my Divine Mother and my Goddess and so I feel it would be disrespectful of me to teach Kundalini "techniques". I prefer that people find a deity and worship Her. And IMO deity worship isn't something one teaches like qigong or meditation. But I would rather introduce Her as one does his/her own Mother. Not only because that is a safe and effective method, but because She deserves it. And I realize now that I have a visceral, angry reaction when I perceive Her as being tossed around as a party favor or some impersonal energy that one can use for personal entertainment. This is of course my projection, but I am not entirely incorrect about this in some instances. There are a few threads in this forum of people wanting to awaken kundalini or those who have used energy techniques in a blind attempt to have some energy experience or gain some siddhi and then found themselves in serious trouble. One big problem as I see it is that many people who talk about Kundalini and even teach Kundalini techniques seem to only have experienced her in the accidental or passive way which results in a completely different experience of Her. And then one is left with only damage control techniques and misunderstanding about Her true purpose in our lives. Without a context within which to Awaken Her properly, then one is forced to simply do damage control. And I find that to be very sad. Not to mention unnecessary. There are other ways... So, I guess a better use of my energy is, instead of waiting until some thread or post about Kundalini pushes my buttons and I react in aggressive ways. Perhaps I should put my energy into actually teaching what I know about Kundalini in other venues instead of wasting that energy in forum rants... Sometimes anger is pointing the way in which one should go... My apologies to any all who were offended by my words in any way...

In all seriousness... If you want me stop telling you I love you and wish the best for you then...Don't draw first blood. Until then, everytime you take a personal pot shot at me, instead of being hurt, (which it does. So, if your motive is to hurt my feelings... it's working. To my knowledge I have never personally attacked you. I don't know you and yet you love to take personal pot shots at me.) So, instead of hitting back, the only way I know how to deal with the emotional hurt I feel from your insults is to see you as an angry little boy who didn't get enough love from his parents. Maybe it's not true but your actions remind me of that. So, I mean everything I say. I love you and only wish the best for you. But until such time, everytime you personally insult or attack me I will think and say, "I have nothing but good thoughts and love for you my friend." Eventually you will either believe me and no longer feel the need to insult me or you will get tired of hearing it and stop with the insults. In any case, you will stop with the personal insults and that is what I want from you...

You are absolutely right Cowtao. I am having alot of feelings about this subject that I am not completely conscious of yet. I need to do some soul searching as to why... Little1, I'm giving you a big hug. I love ya and only have good thoughts for you buddy. I believe in you.. go get 'em tiger!

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Out of all my entire posts on this thread you find it necessary to isolate ONE line (that was not directed at you) where I was being self-deprecative in order to get us back on a constructive discussion and yet you take personal offense and instead decide to attack me personally and call me B.S. I give up... I'm out... (Why do I even waste my time here at all?)

Who is saying that?

Huh? I didn't realize that Vaj and I were saying the same thing. I sure as hell am not making any arguments for the superiority of buddhism and I have great respect for shamans of all kinds. Let's get back on topic because it is an important one and I think many would benefit from an intelligent discussion instead of the usual taobums devolution into intellectual minutiae... The original topic was "How to Open Kundalini?" besides my response, I have only heard three possible methods outlined in this thread: 1) Through accident, fear or illness 2) through random breath and energy practices 3) shaktipat. These three methods ASSUME that Kundalini must only be dealt with through damage control after the fact OR that the individual is either a victim of circumstance or a passive receiver. Yes, those are some of the ways that stimulate Kundalini but they are not the only ways! It is also possible to raise Kundalini in a conscious controlled manner without all the drama and craziness. I gave one example from a proven and ancient discipline in the hopes that one of the forum's many resident kundalini experts would share alternative methods based on their understanding and experience... Instead, some people allowed my overbearing warrior manner to push their male authority issue buttons.. For those that have awakened it spontaneously. I believe that is a different subject than the original question. Because once Kundalini has been awakened in that fashion, it has to be controlled or managed. BUT...If She is awakened consciously and in a controlled manner, She is quite pleasant as well as life changing. I want to hear about these kinds of proactive methods for the sake of the newbies who want to experience Her. I gave my .02. Now I want to hear from others with some knowledge and experience...

Well, vaj, I didn't read your whole post because I really don't want to get into a huge debate... This is my understanding based on my studies. Your sources may differ but, IME, the buddhists, IME tend to be historical revisionists because there is also a spiritual agenda on the part of the buddhists to "buddhicize" everything and be superior to hindus... So, I tend to take buddhist sources with a grain of salt... K- I'm simply sharing the tantric viewpoint as I understand it.