fiveelementtao

I am not trying to say this is the only way kundalini is raised. My point is (and your examples point this out) that kundalini needs a framework from within which to work. Otherwise it is chaotic. Zen is not primarily concerned with kundalini. She is raised very often as a side effect of zen practices. But it is not the sole focus. Also the Chan school of buddhism from which Zen came from had to seek out Taoist practices to help with unintended kundalini sickness. This is how the Shao Lin arts were born. They like to ascribe it to Da Mo, but Shao Lin qigong was taken from Taoist qigong to alleviate accidental kundalini syndrome. Shao lin qigong has no similarity to anything buddhist. It is Taoist. Buddhism itself especially Tibetan buddhism has its roots in Tantric hinduism. Most of the tibetan "buddhas" are actually hindu deities and still have the original hindu names. Tara is one example. She is a tantric hindu deity... Buddhism itself was originally a sect of hinduism. So to say that buddhists also raise kundalini is correct... because they are still operating from withing a generally hindu view of the Universe... in the case of the Chan school. They had to use Taoist methods to control the kundalini. In terms of Bushmen... I do not know their practices, so I am not convinced that their energy is kundalini. This is another danger of ascribing the word "Kundalini" to any energy practice or side effect. Kundalini is a very specific word with a specific meaning. In order to understand what the word means, it needs to be studied in its' original context. Then one can knowledgably apply that word to another practice. But many are throwing this word around and applying it to any energy practice or experience without complete knowledge. And this is why even on this board there are people who call Kundalini and Chi the same thing. Or call kundalini a "certain type of Chi. This is inaccurate in the context of the original meaning of the word. In the case of Buddhism, the Buddhists are using the idea of the Buddha as the diety. It serves the same function as tantric hinduism. So, the Buddha is the vessel through which the kundalini arises. This is the problem... One can ascribe any meaning they want to any word. But at that point are we still talking about the same thing? And if we are ascribing meaning to an experience that also does not teach us necessarily what the experience means or what the purpose of it is... I am concerned that when a question about how to raise kundalini is asked, one of the answers given is that it is raised through fear or traumatic accident... That concerns me greatly... That is not how the question would be answered by those who invented the word... They would answer these questions with methods that raise the kundalini safely.

Kundalini is the "Ahamkara" according to Tantric hindu yogis. Ahamkara means the " 'I am' Maker". This means that Kundalini is the creator of the divine "self" within the individual. (Remember that Kundalini is a sanskrit word originated by hindu yogis. IMO, if one truly wants to know what kundalini is then it has merit to at least study the original tradition that word originated from.) The original intent of the practice of Kundalini yoga in East Indian mysticism was to expand the "self" through identification with a deity. Then the Kundalini or "self maker" has a vessel through which to expand the personality and consciousness of the individual. Traditionally the arising of Kundalini was intended to be done through worship of a deity. Tantra consists of Meditation, Pranayama (qigong), Yantra (using mandalas/ sacred symbols) and Mantra. Mantras create the deity within the body. Yantras align the brainwaves to vibrate in accordance with a deity that creates a replica of the deity in the sadakh's body, allowing the kundalini or "divine self" of the individual to conform to the deity in question. When Kundalini is awoken by trauma, fear accident or by energy techniques WITHOUT using a diety or proper tantra (technique) to contain the power, then you run the risk of blowing out emotional and nervous system circuits. You also run the risk of creating a monster within yourself because the personality created by the kundalini has no boundaries. Kundalini is shakti and needs a shiva to identify with. Shiva is the definition created by the deity in question. Shakti is the power of the Divine self. If the shakti has no shiva, then it is pure chaos. If the Shiva has no shakti, then it is only a shava (corpse). The deity becomes the vessel to contain the kundalini and then the kundalini takes on the personality of the deity. Can you imagine having a deity at your command. That is what proper kundalini yoga can do. Kundalini syndrome as many may know can be blissful or can be chaotic and frightening. Why? because the kundalini in these cases has no boundaries and the personality of the individual in question has not aligned their human personality with the kundalini. So, the divine self within does not know who or what it is and has no vessel to contain the power. So the energy runs rampant and can cause all kinds of problems. Even if the person experiences bliss, it is still chaotic and can destroy their lives. Kundalini is no joke and should not be messed with without guidance and proper technique. The tantric yogis knew what they were doing when they devised their tantras (techniques). IMO, better to leave kundalini alone than to awaken Her without knowledge. Many who have done so without knowledge wish they had not... For those already with kundalini syndrome, seek out a deity and ask the deity to control the shakti for you... (edit) BTW, when kundalini is awakened in a controlled manner through proper tantra, then there is no crazy side effects. There is often no physical sensations at all, because kundalini is aroused into the deity formed within the individual. It is just an orderly expansion of the divine self. any mind expansion is able to be understood by the individual. Instead of craziness, you have simply an orderly expansion of knowledge and consciousness...

Best way to ground IME is to use the Earth Element. http://www.spirittao.com/page19/free1.html

For those serious about learning Who Kundalini is and how to awaken Her, I recommend a book called "Kundalini" by Robert E Svoboda. He shares the traditional tantric understanding of Who Kundalini is, Her purpose and what to do to awaken Her. I will say that the vast majority of what you read on this forum about Kundalini is really just overstimulation of the nervous system, not actual Kundalini.

The most efficient way? Live life responsibly and learn life lessons. Grow in maturity. Seek to resolve your karmic issues. Kundalini is not an energy to be manipulated like Chi just for physical experiences. If you practice any energy work or meditation AND you simultaneously seek to be an emotionally mature person, your kundalini will "open" and rise through the chakras. It is only those who try to "open" Her without the requisite emotional maturity that end up with "kundalini syndrome." If She arises naturally then you may not even feel her, because it is a natural process. Forget about trying to "open" kundalini. It is a complete misunderstanding of the process...

Cihan, My brother, Please forgive my misunderstanding. I remember you now. My previous suggestions were under the assumption that you were in the US or Europe. There are many teachers in those places. People in the US have no real excuse for not finding a teacher. Your situation is different. However, I will share with you a shamanic truth as I understand it: Your greatest weakness is your greatest strength Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness You are in a very auspicious circumstance because you can study the "tourist" versions of these dances and then ask the gods to help you reconstruct them. Perhaps you can find someone to teach you the dance even if they do not completely understand it themselves. I wish that Teutonic Shamanic dances and songs still existed. They do not. So, you do have a tremendous opportunity! So, instead of seeing yourself as someone without local teachers, may I suggest that you see yourself as someone who can reconstruct the internal meaning behind these customs you have access to. Now that I have a better remembrance of your situation, I take back some of what I said. The fact that you had an injury from a spirit snake, that indicates that you ARE called to be a shaman. The average person would not have had that kind of reaction. So, that means that for you it is real. Since it is not feesible for you to find a local shamn to learn from. I suggest that you keep trying. But, yes, please do rituals and prayers first. Perhaps do some fasting and prayer. Light a candle and ask your ancestors, (Those from your past who practiced shamanism before the current religion outlawed it) ask them to teach you directly and if it is your destiny, they will. If you read my book, you know that I had many doors close on me until I asked my ancestors to teach me directly and they did. Perhaps your situation is similar. Perhaps you are called to reconstruct your ancestral shamanic path as I am doing with my ancestral Teutonic path. If you are from Anatolia, you must have some Indo-European ancestral connections either through blood or culture/language. I am about to begin sharing some of my understandings from an Indo-European perspective. Keep an eye out for it. Maybe it will connect some things for you or kick start some understandings. In any case, I support you in your solo efforts. Study these remaining practices in your country and meditate on them and ask your ancestors to teach you... Please keep in touch and let me know how it goes, Mike

Why do you need a "guru"? Why not just start with any teacher that knows more than you. start with any class of yoga, meditation, qigong etc... with other people that teaches something that you are curious about. Getting out and being with others in a group setting is a great way to work on your communication skills and work through your isolation issues... Perhaps just seeking to be a more functional human is an option. Setting your sights on a guru is a great way to give yourself more excuses to stay isolated. True gurus are hard to find and traveling costs money. So, therefore just stay home and read more books... Right? Wrong. I'm sure there are inexpensive classes in your city and affordable counseling in your city. Start with that and the means and opportunities for greater things may manifest. And who knows? you may find that you don't need a guru or to travel after all. Maybe just someone with more experience than you is all you need right now Sometimes what we need is right under our nose. But, we have to start looking first... IME, taking action is the best way to kick start the Universe into giving you what you really want. Taking any class with an imperfect human even if it is not the practice or teacher that you ultimately stick with is one way to show the Universe through your actions that you are serious about change. As others have stated, reading books by yourself sometimes only traps us in our intellect and makes our issues more entrenched... Getting out and meeting people while scary is a great way to strengthen the spirit to begin overcoming our own self imposed limitations. Progress not perfection... my .02 good luck in your search... Mike

Perhaps light eating is OK. I wouldn't eat a huge meal right before or after. But other than that, there is no serious requirement.

Hi Cian, Yes, As I said, I'm aware you weren't referring to using power plants, but it was a good opportunity to explore traditional shamanism. Thanks for your clarification... I wasn't trying to dissuade you from journeying. But rather trying to encourage you to make a deeper commitment by seeking out instruction from a live teacher. I don't know where you live but perhaps you could seek out instruction from practicing shamans who focus on journeying. Michael Harner's group focuses on this. Perhaps they could help you http://www.shamanism.org/workshops/index.php Connecting with others in person I find is very encouraging whereas being a solitary seeker can be sometimes discouraging... In any case, good luck with your practices. Keep it up and let us know about your progress. you can also join the thunderwizard discussion group. Blessings, Mike

Not even close... Karate means "Chinese Hand" because the Okinawans learned Chinese hard style Kung Fu from Chinese sailors. Kara = Chinese Te = Hand/ During WWII the Japanese renamed it Open hand Kara (different kanji but same sound)+ Te Hand. Karate is actually an Okinawan version of Kenpo or Chuan Fa - hard style Chinese Kung Fu...

First, Let me say, I sympathize with you and congratulate your courage to share your feelings.. I went through similar experiences myself in the quest for spiritual growth... Having said that, I also believe that you are not alone in your understanding of consciousness/enlightenment and whatnot... By HIS grace? Really? Any true teacher will never take responsibility for their student's progress nor will they allow their student to infer it upon them. If this man was allowing you to believe that he was the source of your spiritual accomplishments, I suggest that he either was ill informed of the nature of consciousness or he was outright misleading you... In any case, it was harmful to your progress to believe that anyone other than you is responsible for your spiritual growth... In light of your statement that you "had awakened to pure consciousness" I would suggest that perhaps your definition of pure consciousness may be limited... dare I say, perhaps even inaccurate? If your consciousness was pure meaning complete, you would also have had total awareness of your physical needs which includes money etc... If as you say, you were unaware of your physical, mundane existence, then is it really awareness/consciousness/enlightenment? IME, and IMO, many young seekers are mistaking energy experiences, states of mind etc... for enlightenment... I also have observed that IMO, many who seek what they term as enlightenment is really escape from painful emotions. True enlightenment includes facing one's emotional pain, not escaping it... It also underscores the Western complete misunderstanding of enlightenment as a fixed state that once it has been achieved never changes... True spiritual accomplishment is accompanied by balance in one's internal AND external state. Anyway... perhaps I have not helped you. But, I think maybe a rethinking of what consciousness is and enlightnment is may be helpful. But, I do encourage you to keep talking and working through your feelings... For myself, I no longer believe in enlightenment as a fixed endpoint. My experience has confirmed that enlightenment is a process that does not end, not even after death. The gods themselves are still learning and growing... We are no different in that regard. At least, IMO... But this is only my limited opinion based on my limited experience...others may feel differently based on their experience... In any case... Good luck, Mike

Hi Cihan, I will share with you my opinion based on my experiences. Someone else may have a different opinion based on their experience. IME, There is a lot of confusion out there regarding "Shamanism." Modern neo-shamanism is seen mainly as "journeying" as well as ingesting of "Power Plants." (You, Cihan did not mention using power plants, so I am not referring to you personally, but it is an important subject.) In reality Shamanism is much, much more than these two things. For instance, Taoist energy work is shamanic in nature. Any religion or spiritual practice that results in direct experience of spirit or power is shamanic in nature. A true shaman is someone who acts as a conduit between the spiritual and the physical world. There are many ways to do this. Journeys can be dangerous without proper training and ritual. IMO, Power plants should never be ingested unless prescribed and supervised by a master shaman who comes from a culture and tradition of using power plants. (most traditions have moved beyond using intoxicants.) In fact, if power plants are misused, they will have the opposite effect of deadening the senses and weakening the nervous system, not to mention the very real possibility of insanity and addiction. Traditionally, power plants are only used when a master shaman has determined that it is necessary to open someone's aura. After the initial use, power plants are rarely if ever used again. Many times, the shaman will not allow someone to use plants at all because they can foresee it is too dangerous. There is a reason why most taoist masters and yogic masters do not use power plants at all. This is because it is in fact unnecessary. Higher level internal alchemy opens up the energy centers much more efficiently than external intoxicants. Vedic Yoga masters originally used a concoction of power plant extracts they called soma. But now they have realized that the true soma is secreted by the pituitary gland after years of internal alchemy. as I have on my website here. http://www.thunderwizard.com/page40/page42/alchemy.html A traditional shaman is a priest, healer, counselor, energy worker and psychiatrist. So, Thank you for sharing your experiences with journeying. Traditionally journeys should not be undertaken without first gaining help from spirit guides and protectors. And journeys should not be undertaken without a clear objective. Many people nowadays view shamanic journeying as a form of entertainment and as you have learned, true journeying is serious stuff and should not be attempted without proper training and a clear objective. If you are serious about journeying, I recommend three things: 1) Find your spiritual guides and protectors FIRST through ritual and prayer. 2) Only journey when you have a clear objective as to the reason why you are journeying (either to heal someone or gain knowledge to share with others for their spiritual well being.)and 3) get some live training in journeying from a practicing shaman. I myself only undertake journeys when I need special information from deities or spirit helpers or to help with healing or spiritual cleansings or to solve a problem. Outside of that, I do not journey...I want to respect the power of the journey... If you can, I would suggest training in person with a practicing shaman who can teach you how to journey properly and without injury. training in person with a shaman also allows for initiation into their lineage which will give you the power and protection of their lineage masters. This is another aspect to traditional shamanism that has been forgotten by modern neo shamanism. In terms of a proper ritual. That is possible. I do teach some rituals in Teutonic Shamanism online that can be helpful in gaining protection and guidance. If you believe you have been called to shamanic service through journeying, seek out a teacher. If you are not sure, there are still many facets of shamanism that can be safely practiced without undertaking journeys. That is my opinion. I hope it helps. Thanks for the questions, Mike

Thanks for sharing your experiences Cihan, Energy Gathering is derived from the warrior shaman arts so it makes sense that you would experience feeling like a spiritual protector while doing the exercise. It is a very powerful way to strengthen the aura and cleanse a space. It will dynamically charge the aura and heighten your vibration. Your description of your visual experiences is very beautiful and inspiring. It is perfectly OK to do the Heaven Earth Qigong while standing. I sometimes will do it standing starting facing North and then I will move clockwise after each repetition until I have faced all eight directions and am facing North again. In other words, I start the first repetition facing North, then move to the Northeast and do a round, then to the East etc.. until I have come around to the North again and then do one last rep facing North for a total of 9. I support you in only doing as many repetitions as you are comfortable with. No point in overdoing anything. For clarification...The Heaven Earth Qigong meditation is opening up and purifying the body in nine stages starting with the feet and ending with the head. The first three rounds clear the legs, the second three clear the torso and the last three clear the head up to the crown. It is not necessary to know that or visualize that, but that is what is happening. So, if you are only comfortable with 6 rounds, then that means that your body wants to clear out the legs and torso and is not quite ready to energize the head. That is OK. No need to overdo it or rush anything... Regardless of how many reps you do always close with the Earth Breath meditation to ground the energies. Thanks again, Mike

According to Teutonic Mythology, the Thunder god Thor needs 3 magical items made by the dwarves in order to create lightning and thunder: 1) Meginjord (Power Belt) which doubles his strength This is the power of the kidneys and navel center to create and store Chi. 2) Jarngreiper (Iron Grippers) iron gloves. Iron is a conductor for electricity, so this is saying that Thor needs to open the energy gates in his hands in order to pick up his "hammer." (lightning and thunder) 3) Mjollnir (Pulverizer) his hammer which is itself the power of thunder and lightning. The name pulverizer indicates that Thor is dynamically combining the powers of yin and yang in order to create the power of lightning. As those of us who have studied Taoist energy work, we can clearly see that this myth is talking about how to create chi energy in the lower dan tien (power belt) and transmit Chi energy through the hands (iron gloves) and dynamically combine yin and yang (mjollnir) to create the power of lightning . This indicates to me that there is eveidence from the Teutonic myths that the pre-christian Europeans did have an understanding of high level energy work and recorded this understanding through oral tradition and stories... I am finishing up an manual for the online Teutonic shamanism course on the website. If anyone is interested in getting a copy, email me with "shamanism manual" in the headline and I will notify when it is ready for download...

No. But you placed the shaman label on yourself with your original question concerning shamanic initiation and whether or not it applied to your circumstances. I think you got some good answers and based on your replies you may well be a shaman, but I must also say that in light of this response, I still think it is a good idea to examine your feelings and looking for ways that you have created your own environment.... my.02

To answer your question more concretely... I am in the process of synthesizing what would traditionally be understood as a complete tradition. Most energy practices taught today were originally parts of larger spiritual disciplines... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4paWLbxgMM

My comments were not meant to dissuade you from pursuing a path of shamanism, but merely to point out that the feelings you mention are not by themselves indicators of shamanic initiation. The initiation that people are referring to is done by the spirits, not by other people. A shaman must first of all have an unshakeable will. Many many people have feelings like you have shared. That does not indicate they are shamans. If you are truly serious about becoming a shaman, it is in your best interest and the interest of those you will serve to investigate the source of your feelings of victimization. Come to think of it, that is true even if you are not a shaman. While I sympathize and relate to your feelings as probably we all do to some degree. Allowing yourself to feel victimized will hinder your spiritual progress. One major teaching of shamanic work is to understand that our external lives are merely projections of our inner reality. If a shaman is experiencing the situations you describe, they asks themselves "Why am I attracting this to myself?" A shaman is first and foremost a spiritual warrior who is ruthless with themselves... If you think you are a shaman, I strongly suggest you find a qualified shamanic teacher to help guide you through the initiation process... traditionally, if someone is called to be a shaman and they do not seek instruction, they can sometimes go insane...

based on my experience, I do not think your feelings are directly connected to shamanism. It sounds more like personal issues that can best be addressed with a counselor. A shaman does not seek to be recognized or rewarded for their deeds. A shaman is only interested in helping to bring balance. Many times a shaman will choose to help without anyone knowing about it. I suggest finding the friendly ear of a qualified counselor.

There is no end to Spirit. This system is only one of many. Spirit is Infinite. Any boundaries or limitations are imposed by need of the practitioner or the purpose of the immortals who transmit the teachings. My system is growing all the time... So, I do not know where it will end. The question is...How big do you need YOUR system to be. Why not just start with what you have. Right now in CNK, there are 2 DVDs. for some who have worked with me and shared their experiences one DVD is enough. IME, in the first 2 DVDs there is enough material to spend a lifetime mastering. In the end, it is not about how many techniques are within a system, but how diligent and consistent the practitioner is. I teach numerous "core" practices that if someone were to only do those practices, would give them everything they need. Some of those are on the DVDs. The current grandmaster of the Shang Ch'ing says that if you practice any standing posture for 45 minutes a day, you will gain everything you need. So, according to him, the best system has only one practice...

Yes, I have been considering a 3rd DVD.

Are you asking this question because you feel you are being treated this way?

Basic mudras used in modern Teutonic Shamanism as I am teaching it. enjoy!

Yes. CNK is complementary to all of the three major Taoist internal martial arts. i.e, Tai Chi Xing Yi and Ba Gua

I would agree. I believe enlightenment to be a process rather than a destination. Your line of questioning then makes sense. It certainly seems that younger seekers these days do tend to see enlightenment as some sort of end game that involves superhero powers rather than a balanced life... Thanks for the clarification.

I am confused by this thread... Asking the question, "Does Spiritual Enlightenment mean Psychological Maturity?" is like asking "Does eating involve chewing?" Because according to all traditional teachings I have ever explored or practiced, the term enlightenment has only ever had one definition: Enlightenment is nothing more or less than emotional and spiritual maturity. You can't really have one without the other and I am confused as to how so many people on this forum think there is a difference. I suppose it has to do with all the attention being given to siddhis and side-effects of energy work. Perhaps it has to do with the average age of those on this forum... The process of life lessons and maturation is ITSELF the process of enlightenment... Life is the meditation and meditation is the practice. meditation and energy work are merely tools that we use to help us learn life lessons and achieve enlightenment... At least that is the viewpoint of traditional teachings as I have come to understand them...