fiveelementtao

First, I must say that I too have read this book and I can say that "Tao and Longevity" is NOT a how to book for beginners in meditation and was not written to be used in this way. Anyone using this book as an instructional guide to Taoist meditation is using the book incorrectly. This should only be read for entertainment and educational purposes. If someone reads this book and is inspired to learn this tradition, they should seek out someone trained in this tradition of meditation otherwise you are wasting your time... There is no way anyone will learn the intricacies of this style of meditation on their own by reading this book. There are details about this type of meditation that are purposely not contained in the book. So, even if someone wants to use this book as a how to guide, they will not be able to replicate the types of scenarios talked about in this book.

Outside of that...There is simply NO need nor is there any benefit from opening the centers in the head. Meditating on the higher centers without a thorough method and instruction will not lead to enlightenment of any kind. I understand why it is an attractive idea especially when one is getting their info from books. I was also this way in the beginning. We read about high spiritual masters who have opened their third eye etc.. etc.. and we think if we can open our third eyes, we will see visions or gain powers or enlightenment etc... But the reality is that if one practices good fundamentals, the upper centers will open on their own naturally. If they are forced open, at the very least... instead of achieving any high level of mastery, one will be stunting their energetic and spiritual growth and at worst, one will be causing themselves irreparable physical and energetic damage.

If you are forced to learn taoist meditation by book or video, find one that is designed to teach you the fundamentals in a step by step method. When you have good fundamentals, then seek out a teacher to verify your method and then let them give the "higher" methods...

There is a reason why these methods are transmitted in person. When you experience this, you will know why...

my. 0.25

A friend of mine just told me about a local qigong master who has quite a bit of power, but he didn't remember the name. So he sends me the info in an email and it turns out to be Zhou. My friend also said he felt healed by this guy, and recommends him very highly. . . . Maybe Zhou does have some actual skills but feels the need to pull off magic tricks due to insecurity or the need to impress Westerners ??

the placebo effect also works very well. Sometimes it is the patient who does the healing. Many western studies conclude that placebo patients have very good recovery rates when they believe they are receiving treatment when in actuality they are not.

Hawaiian shamanism uses this kind of approach quite often.

Verryy nice!

 

Did you do it yourself, KK? Would you say it is a good thing to do yourself, or better with a helper, or no, definitely not a helper thanks.

http://www.colema.com/

Highly recommend for anyone over the age of 25 living in the western world.

Well take the leg channels for instance. By meditation for 45 minutes I have merely a bit of response but they don't actually open. Whereas if I sit in full lotus for 2 hours I feel they are much more open.

So 2 hours meditation many people can't afford it every day...except if you go with less sleep. well.

How would you know if the channels are open? By feeling? How do you know that feeling is a sign of good practice or bad?

When energy channels are open, you do not necessarily feel anything. Open energy channels are the natural state of the body. In fact, sometimes if you feel something from energy work it can mean that your channels are blocked. concentrate on your foundational training like standing postures and basic navel breathing and your channels will open as they should. There is no need to focus on energy channels or trying to open them. This can result in serious injury. If you are asking these kind of questions on an internet discussion forum, you need to be working with a teacher who will help you build your foundation.

Do NOT try to move chi into your head! Talk to any medical chi kung practitioner to hear about horror stories of people getting energy stuck in their heads causing MAJOR health problems including insanity, constant splitting headaches, paranoia, hallucinations.

There is nothing spiritual about moving chi into the head. It is not a drug.

If you want to learn how to move energy into your upper centers you need to be learning directly from a teacher not from a book!

Books are great auxiliary tools for those who already have a teacher they can run questions by.

find a teacher if you want to learn advanced meditation...

This is what you said

 

 

 

 

This is what I actually said:

 

 

 

 

I think you really are clueless on multiple levels. You probably still don't get it LOL

Yes, I did quote you inaccurately. My apologies.

Nevertheless, your original post was to argue that siddhis are a sign of spiritual development. So, let's stay on topic. Your argument then is actually an argument against the topic of siddhis being a sign of spiritual development because you say that according to RB, someone must first be able to exhibit clairvoyance and OBEs before awakening kundalini... So, If what you say is true, (assuming that kundalini is also necessary for spiritual development), then you are arguing against yourself, at least in terms of the siddhis of OBE's and clairvoyance...

You also did introduce another unspoken and unsubstantiated assumption which is that raising kundalini is a de-facto sign of spiritual development. Based on my experience, I disagree.

So, if you can make some reasoned arguments from your own personal experiences without attacking anyone on a personal level, that would also lend weight to your arguments...

Don't criticize me, when you don't even read what I wrote. I said mastering OBE is necessary before one tackles kundalini, not the other way around LOL

I did read your post. You very clearly said that siddhis were a sign of spiritual development and used Robert Bruce's kundalini quote to illustrate your point. and it still represents your unsubstantiated assumption that only spiritually advanced people can raise their kundalini.

So, if you are now saying that siddhis and Kundalini are NOT a sign of spiritual development, then you are at cross purposes with yourself and your post is illogical.

always, My experience of your posts is that you leap to conclusions based on your emotional agenda without really analyzing your thought process... and once again, you would be more persuasive if you could share your personal experiences rather than someone else's opinion...

Hi Sloppy,

well as i said, I didn't really watch very much, So perhaps I will give him another looksee. I have great respect for personal experience. Many on this forum seem to have a great deal of respect for him, so I may be getting distracted by the initial presentation rather than the content. It does sound as though he is using the word kundalini in the typical new age understanding which is just to paste that word onto any energy experience. Kundalini is such a loaded word because it carries with it the idea of spiritual awakening or enlightenment. I think alwayson exemplified this with his assumption that simply because RB says that kundalini is necessary for OBE's that therefore anyone who accomplished such and such a siddhi must therefore be spiritually advanced because RB says it requires "kundalini" (and therefore spiritually advanced). This is one of my pet peeves when it comes to the new age understanding of energy terms. people make alot of assumptions without critically thinking about what they are assuming with the use of such terms and then continue to create faulty arguments based on faulty assumptions allowing their personal agendas and emotions to affect their thinking process.

Thanks for your input sloppy

Of course its necessary. For example, Robert Bruce has said in numerous places that you cannot raise kundalini until one has mastered wake induced OBE and preferably other abilities such as clairvoyance.

Well, I know very little about Robert Bruce so that argument carries little weight with me. I would be much more persuaded if you brought your own experience to the debate instead of simply parroting another New Age teacher. I watched a few minutes of his free video and I was not very impressed. In my estimation, He did not show a well defined understanding of energy work outside of the basic New Age homogenized version. But, in his defense, I did not watch very much of it so, perhaps he got better... However, even assuming that he is a good teacher, I must say that Robert Bruce is just another human being and that is his human opinion based on his human experience. My human experience has taught me something different. I also don't think he understands what the word "kundalini" means. I believe he is mistaking prana for kundalini. He is not alone. Many New Age teachers make this mistake... And IME, OBe's and clairvoyance do not require kundalini nor are they a sign of significant spiritual or even energetic development. I have experienced both of these phenomena and most people can easily experience them and they do not require the awakening of kundalini. So, if he believes that these low level siddhis are a result of kundalini, then I question his yogic education on what kundalini actually is...

Once again my experience has taught me that these types of "siddhis" are very easy to experience and also very hard to verify. Anyone can have them and anyone can manufacture them in their own minds and then claim to have "raised their kundalini"... sounds like the typical New Age hook that people use to sell books.

again just my opinion based on my experience...

I'm curious about something. Can you fully develop spiritually without ever experiencing "powers"? Or is that a necessary part of development?

Siddhis do not automatically represent spiritual development. Spiritual development is measured by emotional maturity and compassion. Siddhis represent energetic development. It is possible for someone to have both. It is also possible to have only one. I have personally met and/or trained with a few different individuals who had powerful siddhis but were also very emotionally immature, destructive and selfish.

At one time I believed that the only way for someone to gain siddhis was by progressing spiritually. Now, however, because of my experience, I view siddhis as energetic weight lifting. If someone has big muscles, it probably means that they exercise alot. Sidhhis means someone does alot of energy work...

Siddhis are fun and can be used to help others and oneself. But it does not mean spirituality. Get a couple siddhis and you will know what I mean...

Sometimes people talk circuitously. IME, especially those we are in a romantic relationship with. IME, sometimes those of the feminine persuasion...

So, perhaps listen not to what she is saying but to what she is NOT saying...

i.e. "since you are Taoist and I am not, I am worried that you do not respect MY beliefs."

My wife is not Taoist or (in my most recent expression) Teutonic Shaman. She just has a very simple and profound belief in Spirit. However, earlier in our relationship, my intense devotion to qigong, yoga and meditation was very threatening to her because she didn't relate to any of that stuff... I was reactive to that and it caused a great deal of tension in our relationship. Now, we are OK with having similar but not EXACT beliefs.

Turn this around. It may not be about you and your beliefs. It may be about her. You might want to ask her about her beliefs. And then ask her if she feels you respect HER beliefs.

Sometimes women teach their partners by example. Unfortunately men are by nature problem solvers and react to words instead of feelings... Now that she has taught you how it feels when your partner doesn't respect your beliefs, turn it around and find out about her beliefs and give her the respect you would want. If I am wrong, it won't matter, it will be great training for your next girlfriend..

Just a thought...

No, I kind of have to be my own therapist because I can not afford to go to one, in fact it was largely due to my lack of insurance that got me into Qigong in the first place, though it does seem to be working.

I understand. Qigong no doubt is very helpful. I admire your bravery in sharing your situation. You do seem to be seriously trying to face your issues. From what I have read about you here, it seems that your issues are very deep seated from childhood. The problem with being one's own therapist is that you are not able to be objective. In short you are not qualified to advise yourself. I doubt that you will be able to get any serious help from an internet forum.

Though it may be difficult to afford therapy, it is not impossible. It may be a challenge, but it is possible. If you still love your wife, IMO, you owe it to her to get some help. You made a commitment to her when you got married. Part of that commitment is to work through problems. She might even be willing to support you through it. Beyond that, you owe it to yourself to enjoy a normal healthy sex life. Using qigong to suppress your sexual desires is ultimately destructive to your emotional and physical health...

My .02

Are you seeing a therapist?

This would probably be too complex for a forum search...

 

Can you recommend (freely available) techniques for compacting the aura, making it more resistent to negative outer influences and energy leakage?

Without knowing all the specifics it's difficult to recommend techniques. There are many techniques. But, if there is an underlying emotional, behavioral, relationship or karmic issues that may be causing the leakage or susceptibility to the problem, then any technique will only be temporary at best... Like putting a bandaid on a cancer. If this is a recurring issue, it is best to fix the underlying problem first... Then any techniques will have better efficacy.

Why do you feel you need this? The more specific, the better...

Starjumper was pretty harsh with you. You are not the first.

The good thing is that he got your attention. It seems that you weren't really listening to what you were being told. So, I will be a little more direct than I was before so hopefully you will listen, but I will be kinder than SJ.

Yes, form matters a great deal. It is impossible for anyone to have enough knowledge to create a good form without at least having begun to learn about how ONE form creates chi. If you don't understand the basics of one form, does it make sense that you can create a new one? and you do not even understand the basics of any qigong which is proper posture, movement and breath. It's OK, Qigong takes years just to learn the basics...

You really, really, need to learn from a live teacher. Books and videos cannot give feedback if you make mistakes and EVERYONE including masters make huge mistakes when they are learning.

The way i see it you could be doing xingyiquan or baguazhang or taichiquan and the external forms does not matter but what does is the internal energy you are doing.

You are very mistaken here! Xingyi, bagua and Tai Chi are VERY different forms that produce very different types of energy for very different purposes. Each form creates chi that functions very differently internally. You think that all chi is the same. That is because you have very little experience and very little understanding of these arts. And, incidentally they are martial arts forms. Until you learn them, practice them and can APPLY them as martial arts FOR YEARS you will not know the different types of chi they produce.

To keep it simple. Qigong is much more than just being able to feel chi. Instead of asking people on an internet forum these questions, you should seek out a qualified teacher who can tell you and SHOW you.

You may yet be destined to teach but not after years of learning under a real teacher...

Mewtwo,

You've gotten some pretty direct criticism. Before I give my .02, let me tell you that your desire to teach is honorable and you should follow it. But, first before becoming a teacher, you need to learn how to be a good student which takes time, patience, persistence and dedication. You have not put enough time or energy in being a student... Study, practice, learn and set a goal to become a teacher. Learn from some recognized teachers first. You may be destined to be a brilliant teacher. But, first you need to study and learn...

I understand what you mean when you say that all movement with breath "cultivates" chi. But there is much more to it than that.

Having watched your vid, I do not think you have an understanding between the difference of Martial qigong (which is VERY exacting and specific), healing qigong (which is also very subtle) and basic warm-up style qigong. You mentioned that you were trying to teach a martial qigong style. As a martial artist, if I came into your class and you were teaching martial qigong, I would expect you to be able to demonstrate how to transfer that qi energy into your strikes and blocks. based on what I saw of your posture and movements, I do not think you are able to transmit chi effectively in a martial application. So, I am not completely sure why you called it martial qigong. Perhaps you are thinking of a Tai Chi style warm-up or health style qigong?

Anyway, this horse is dying and I think the message is clear. Focus on your own study and practice before even considering teaching...

Good luck to you...

Mewtwo,

You asked people if you were ready to teach. You've received a few responses that said no, but encouraged you to continue. If you weren't prepared to hear 'no' then why bother asking? It's a free Universe, you can do whatever you want and no one will stop you. So go ahead and teach. You would not be the first and you won't be the last.

It sounds like you have a gift and real potential. But you clearly are resistant to learning otherwise instead of using the small town excuse as a reason to not learn, you would find reasons to go someplace where you can learn... You are not a victim, you have options... It may be inconvenient to move or travel to learn but it is not impossible.

i learned that it does not matter the form as long as you are combining your breath with your movements you are cultivating chi.

Form is extremely important otherwise one can cause themselves all kinds of serious injury to joints. If the form is out of balance, energy can get stuck and cause other more serious problems.

As I said earlier, if qigong is not really a skill that requires training, then who needs a teacher at all?

In all seriousness, it sounds like you have a gift and real potential. IMO, if you are really serious about wanting to help other people through teaching, then you would want to seek out formal instruction so you can be the best teacher possible for the sake of your students. There are no downsides to learning, but by not learning, there are many downsides to both you and your students.

At the very least after you have trained with other instructors, and you still feel like teacher training is unnecessary, then at least you will have some experience to back up your statements.

Why would i need to go through a teacher training thing?

Why are you resistant to the idea?

What would you say to someone who wanted to become a dentist or a doctor or carpenter who asked "why do I need to train with someone first?"

You are wanting to teach someone a skill which presupposes that whatever you are wishing to teach takes some level of skill and knowledge. This presupposes that someone needs your expertise to learn it. Otherwise why not just try and figure it out for themselves?

So, by asking this question you are at cross purposes with yourself. If what you want to teach is a skill that your students need to learn from you, since you have experience in it, it only makes sense that if you are serious about teaching this skill, then you would want to research it with those who have learned a proven system.

Or let me put it another way. Would you want to learn qigong from someone who said, " I don't really have any formal training and I kinda just made this stuff up as I went along. So, do you want to learn from me?"

or would you rather learn from someone who says, "I started experimenting with qigong awhile ago and I decided I wanted to teach it, so I got serious and began researching qigong techniques from proven systems. Do you want to learn?

I don't know about you, but I would not train with the first guy.

I would have to agree with dainin and pilot. BUT... that does not mean that you aren't meant to teach. If you are serious about teaching, then it would only serve you and your students to do more research learning from a proven reputable system. There is also no reason why you couldn't teach your own style later if you decided to. But, training with teachers will only give you a wider frame of reference to help your students. I eventually started my own style of qigong, but that was after almost 20 years in traditional styles first.

I say, definitely work toward teaching. It is a valuable calling and the world needs it.

Best to find a live teacher to learn from. use books only as supplementary tools and run them by your teacher.

now i need to know the way that i can recover the quickest.

Why the Quickest? What's the hurry? You spent alot of years creating the problem. You can take your time fixing the problem. Perhaps patience is part of your recovery.

also what is everyones opinion on the start and stop technique? i was reading that the start and stop technique or "the big draw" is a good way to build up stamina but then i read conflicting ideas from a google search saying that in Taoist point of view it is still harmful

If you are going to stimulate yourself, you need to release. Otherwise you are going to create heat with the sexually stimulated sperm. If you keep it in your body it can heat you up and cause further decay. If you wish to use celibacy as part of your recovery, it is best that you avoid any sexual stimulation. Sexual techniques for semen retention will only make things worse.

It is also a good idea to physically seek out TCM person. Do not take any advice from a forum, internet or books. Seek out a professional..

Another option is to find a girlfriend and only have sex with her. Sex with a partner can help heal imbalances. Most likely your preature ejaculation is not from masturbation. It may be psychological.

In any case, find some professional help.

my.02

Who do you know that has actually permanently and severely injured themselves doing something like that? I hear a lot of these warnings but I've never actually heard of anyone injuring themselves. What could possibly happen?

You want names? I don't do that. However, just on this forum and on one other forum there have been numerous people who caused themselves not only physical problems like splitting headaches that don't go away, Tingling and numbness in the extremities, insomnia, intense fear, anxiety, not to mention major psychological issues like frightening hallucinations. Some experienced what they perceived as demonic attacks and hauntings from playing around with the pineal gland. and that was after learning from an instructor. So, if these kinds of things can happen when someone practices proven techniques improperly it stands to reason that someone can cause themselves problems just by experimenting on their own.

The body is self-correcting.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it is advisable to stick needles in your eyes or smash yourself in the head with a brick. Even the body's self-corrective capabilities have limitations especially if someone continues with harmful techniques... It is still possible to cause oneself irreparable damage...

But it is not even necessary to employ these techniques. One can achieve very high levels of energy attainment without using techniques that stimulate the upper centers directly. Any "basic" qigong if done correctly over time will eventually reach these centers naturally and safely.

As I wrote in another thread, our grandmaster told some of us that he himself practices one standing posture every day for 45 minutes. That is his highest practice. Basic stuff like lower dan tien breathing and standing postures will open all the meridians safely and in the proper order...

TF,

I'm sorry if you were hurt or offended by my post. If I have assumed incorrectly about you, I apologize but I am doing my best with the vague information you have provided. My apologies. I am trying to learn from you about this subject and I am sharing my honest reactions to your posts which are very vague and without specifics...

I was not nor am I now upset, offended or angry with you. The title of your thread says "Discuss, debate and vent out frustration"

I am trying to discuss, but there are no specifics to discuss.

You suggest debate and I am trying to debate, but you do not intelligently defend your position when asked about it.

So, the only thing left to do is to "vent out frustration." I am not frustrated in terms of spiritual knowledge so...

I guess I don't see the point in being frustrated if you are not interested in finding solutions...

So, TF my friend, since you do not wish to discuss with me or explain it to me, I will retire from your thread and allow you to vent your frustrations...

I hope you are able to find the knowledge that you seek..

Peace...

A couple of qigong masters have told me you can reach enlightenment by doing one qigong practice a day for about 3 years. Usually they say standing stake or horse stance. If a person has even stood in a stance for a half hour (or even 10 minutes!) a person will understand what a lesson of self awareness that is.

Our grandmaster once said that if you practice one standing posture every day until you can do it for 45 minutes a day, you will achieve mastery. When asked, "which one?" he said, "It doesn't matter. Just pick one and stick with it."

I recently moved and got a job selling cars (which I hate, but its all I can find for now) and a lot of the other sales men are real douche bags. Anyways as one would suspect you need to be very assertive in this business but the problem I have been noticing is that when I get very angry I can literally not speak (and its usually at this point that I need to say something the most). Yea I get mad, and yea I want to say something, but I can't, and don't know why; any thoughts? solutions? theories?

I have experienced that also, my friend... Not fun...

Sounds like you were suppressed as a kid. One or both of your parents punished you when you tried to voice your anger or discontent? Or perhaps whenever you needed to speak up and "voice your truth" you were shamed and told to be quiet?

I'm just guessing... I could be wrong...

Working through this with a therapist is the best long term solution (IMO). outside of that, meditating on the throat chakra and journaling your feelings might help.

perhaps while in meditation, you can imagine yourself as a little kid and allow him to share with you his anger and sadness about not being allowed to speak his Truth... This has helped me. It may mean alot of crying and grieving.

I salute your bravery...