fiveelementtao

It's an interesting article, but that text is likely bullshit. It is roughly 1700 years old, meaning that particular manuscript was written in 300 C.E. in Syriac, not Aramaic.

The text they have is from 300 a.d. but there is no way to determine when the first copy was written.

When I was in seminary I spent alot of time in what is called textual criticism. What I learned is that the entire new testament is completely unprovable from a textual standpoint. Christian "scholars" spend huge amounts of time and energy hopscotching over facts in order to prove their own religious beliefs and disprove those that don't fit into their religious agenda. Need we have a discussion about the council of nicaea and the selection process for books of the bible? hundreds of gospels existed at the time of the canonization process. But only those that fit within the empirical sect of christianity were ultimately accepted. IT had nothing to do with any kind of scientific validity. In any case there is no more proof for the validity of the four gospels than for this. In terms of the science of textual criticism, This text is as legitimate as any other christian text.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/wise-men-ancient-text-differs-bible-tale-magi/story?id=12460820

The most interesting part (to me) describes Christ as one of many avatars more like another avatar of Vishnu...instead of the ONLY avatar.

HI! Thank you for sharing all this. Have you looked into a japanese tradition called 'Kototama'? It has similarities. The word 'kototama' roughly translates as 'word-spirit'. The tradition is based and builds upon the five mother sounds/syllables. I don't practice it or know enough about it to really tell you much, but the sounds are intoned in a similar way to how you describe. They also have a parallel with the five elements although the O (oh) relates to Water and the U (ooo) relates to Earth.

Thanks again for sharing

Interesting, I just googled it. Interesting stuff.

Has anyone heard of the Nordic martial art based on the runes - Stav? Apparently there's postures based on the runes with different breathing patterns. Interesting stuff.

Yes, I looked into that. Without criticizing it, it is not wholly European. The founder apparently learned some traditional teachings on the younger futhark Runes and then he went to Japan for a long time and learned kendo and aikido. His martial art is japanese. He initially tried to pass it off as traditional nordic sword work, but it became very clear that it was not a european martial art. He has since backpedaled and acknowledges that the sword work and the aikido looking stuff is from Japan. He teaches Rune stances which IME are pretty cool. There is some controversy over whether the stances are a modern invention or not. The jury is still out on that one. But alot of people really get alot out of the practice..

Which is the best source on the Runes?

There are alot of good sources. Some not so good and some so-so. As I said before alot of books deal only with runes as divination tools and IMO many of their interpretations are very superficial.

I just read a book that was pretty good it's called "the complete illustrated guide to runes" by Nigel Pennick it has some good foundation and history...

But, IME, the best way to work with runes is to meditate on them, chant them and see where it takes you...

Do you think Bardon's work is related. In particular his "Key To The True Quaballah"

Hmm... I really can't say because I am not at all familiar with his work. I have been focusing on the Pre-Christian aspects of Teutonic spirituality. If I'm not mistaken, The Qaballah was adopted into European mysticism from Jewish mysticism in the middle ages... I could be wrong about that but, in any case, I have no knowledge of it. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts about it...

Sounds pretty interesting....

 

 

 

When i was learning pinyin, the romanization of the chinese language i found they had vowels similar to us. a o e i u u. The a o u are pronounced nearly the same as they are pronounced in english and they are vowels because every word has one. I learnt french at school but i couldn't remember if they had the same vowels or not. It would be interesting if all countries had similar vowels so that each word had common sounds regardless of language. That could have some link to energetics that go way back. Does anyone know any other languages?

Funny you should mention the vowels. I have been working with those too.

I think the Five vowels are universal in pronunciation. In English we pronounce the english pronunciation of the the letters not the sounds (AY EE EYE OWE YOU) But IME experience with other languages the vowels are universally pronounced (AH AY EE OH OO). In my experiments with the vowels from a runic perspective, They are similar to the Five Elements

A (AH) Aethem/Wood,

E (Eh) Wind/Metal,

I (Ee) Fire,

O (Oh) Earth,

U (Oo) Water

A is like ethereal rising into the head, E feels like an expansion in the lungs, I Stimulates my triple burner, O is centered for me in the abdomen. U goes right out my heels into the Earth.

It has a different quality than the Taoist five healing breaths, But I am enjoying the process of investigation...

Of course there is a Rune for each letter which has it's own meaning. So, meditating on the sounds and exploring the runic symbolic meanings is alot of fun also...

Well said. I would also add look after your health. Health is everything, without it life is shit.

Good point!

IMO (today) To learn and grow. This planet is a school. Forget about enlightenment. Forget about liberation. Don't try to escape. Embrace the pain and fear. Embrace the joy and pleasure. Abandon denial. Face oneself ruthlessly. Make mistakes. Forgive yourself and strive to improve on all levels whenever possible. Instead of the word enlightenement or freedom, I prefer the word fulfillment.

Thanks Z00se,

I did not feel you were trying to be critical. I do understand the limitations of keyboards and I am not perfect there either. something about message forums seems to encourage left brain black/white type of responses even from those of us who in person would probably be more circumspect. I do appreciate your input. Since you asked my experience of Runes outside of books, I will share some.

The original 24 Runic symbols of the Elder Futhark, I believe are very ancient keys to human divinity through sound. The written symbols were probably adapted from other early alphabets early in the first century A.D. but I am convinced that the symbols are from a much older oral tradition. I spent alot of years working with sanskrit mantra and lots of years working with some Taoist mantra. But I was very impressed with the power of the six healing breaths in Taoist energy work. (many call them 'sounds' but the original text called them 'breaths' and were meant to be chanted silently with breath as whispers) When I began investigating the Teutonic tradition, I began using that same technique with Runic sounds and was blown away with the power of them ('Rune' means 'whisper'). I found I had to be very careful when whispering each Rune, because all kinds of stuff began happening in my life. I learned very quickly that these were not arbitrary sounds.

This began an even deeper investigation into the power of the English language. I found that when I applied runic understanding to normal everyday english words, THEY became powerful mantras. Because I saw that the Runes were an energetic template for the Teutonic languages. I THEN discovered that all language in it's original context was a means NOT just for verbal communication but actually a magical tool to manifest reality. All that was needed was to infuse them with breath power. As of now, my belief is that all languages in their original root sounds are gifts for humans to use to CREATE reality.

Roman historians wrote that Teutonic tribespeople used runic staves for divination as is still done today. So, that is one tradition that has survived. BUt I believe that this kind of divination was a layman technique. I believe that there was a deeper mystical tradition of breathing life into them and using them for manifestation and powerful meditation and even internal alchemy.

When I was studying sanskrit mantra, one of my teachers believed that there were certain languages that were energetic languages. He cited Sanskrit and Hebrew. The unspoken message was that English was not an energetic language good only for verbal communication. After this, I revisited his comment and realized that Hebrew and Sanskrit have an uninterrupted history of being used as magical. English on the other hand has 1400 year history of religious suppression by christianity to destroy the idea of magic in language. So, no wonder we in the West seek out other traditions with an unbroken history... And rightfully so, we need them to remind us of the magic in our own history and apply it to the present...

So, my experiment with Naught is one of many that the runes have introduced me to.

Anyone interested in experimenting with this kind of runic breath meditation, can use the technique I teach in the Huul video

That same technique of silently chanting while splitting breath between both nose and mouth will result in similar power in the chant...

I found it can be used with many words. IME, the closer the word is to the older versions of english, the more powerful they are which tells me that the older version of Teutonic languages are closer to the original root of sacred sound... I believe that working with each rune sound individually may 'activate' that sound which then can be used in combination with other rune sounds to create specific energy equations. So, the possibilities are endless. I think words are actually runic equations that when chanted properly actually CREATE the idea originally intended by the word. So, I think words were not arbitrarily created for communication but were discovered as pre-existing sound principles...

@cat,

That was a cool experience with Fire. Sounds like you are a Shaman! I am really finding a heretofore undiscovered level of personal fulfillment working with shamanic techniques. I believe shamanism is an integral part of spiritual practice that has been lost to many cultures over the years. It is as though it activates aspects of my DNA that were dormant... Very exciting stuff.

Hi Z00se,

You make some interesting observations. I find some of them quite insightful.

However, on the whole, it felt like a criticism of my experience. Kind of a bummer...

(Z00se)Finally, with all the power of runes or these types of things, even though they can assist you or solve problems in your life, I don't think it's a way of perfecting your life. I think only that can be done by living in the wu wei.

However i think it's more basic and infact better to go beyond runes or talismans

There's those value comparisons again... "Perfection... Better" I am not seeking perfection. Nor am I competing with anyone... Taoism to me is very inclusive. Words like perfection and better tend to exclude. I don't see Taoism as a practice of judging experience...

We are drifting again into comparisons. I'm really not interested in comparing religions or paths to see whose is better. I have no interest in going there.

But fundamentally, even from a Taoist perspective I would disagree with you on a few different levels. Traditional Taoism is a polytheist religion that uses many magical and mystical tools. One such tool is mantra. Another example is Talismanic Fu's. So, if I were simply to replace the word Rune in your posts with Mantra or Fu, (since Runes are indeed both mantra and Fu) you could be saying that Fu's and mantra are not valuable in Taoism. While you can certainly be a Taoist and hold on to that idea, you would be in the minority when it came to traditional Taoism.

As you point out, Runes are indeed Talismans. The written symbols are somewhat arbitrary symbols. But, the symbols are first and foremost symbols of actual sounds which are directly connected to eternal principles in the Universe. By chanting Runes (IME) it is much more than applying arbitrary qualities to a symbol. Just as the Six healing sounds in Taoist energy work stimulate different organs in the body regardless of whether we are consciously aware of them or not, Runes are sacred seed sounds that connect to infinite principles within the Universe...

I'm a little disappointed with some of these responses. I was really hoping for more discussion about emptiness, Wuji and the Void. I wasn't really looking for criticisms of my experiences. (sigh) Such is the "either/or" world of Taobums forum discussion...

Something else I would add is that I have been moving away from intellectual experiences for some time in favor of other types of mysticism. I woudl consider the idea of emptiness being void of emotion or sensation as being an intellectualized projection onto emptiness. This is why I love shamanism and mysticism in general. I find that alot of Westerners adopt eastern religions in an attempt to avoid negative feelings. I think that many have misunderstood emptiness from a skewed modern western perspective. For the traditional Taoist mystics I have trained with over the years, the idea of the Void was one of immense power. not one of stale emptiness, but one of indescribable experience... The emptiness of it makes it indescribable in words, but it is not stale unconsciousness

Anyway, I'm really not asking for critical analysis of my experience... I would however be VERY interested in hearing any others' experiences with the power of void in whatever spiritual context...

Enjoyed the podcast.

 

Whether in heaven or on earth Loki seems to love causing trouble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQhW3rP_oIs&feature=related

Chick - ChickeeBoom!

Hi Stig,

Nice vid!

I have had to simplify my manifestation ideas of late...

For me, the key to power in manifestation is directly linked with my surrender to my destiny... Sometimes that can be frightening...

Usually when people talk about manifestation, they mean money or success. All good things definitely...

For me, any success or prosperity is directly linked to me surrendering to my destiny and then taking action based on that destiny as I understand it. So, I have to get out of the idea of earning money for the sake of money...

In other words, if I am investing my energies that are not linked to my highest service to my fellows, no matter how much action i take, I usually only manifest roadblocks.

If however, I am investing energy into surrendering to my destiny and then take action toward that destiny however scary that is, then I find, I am able to manifest prosperity and success more powerfully.

Just my experience. I am sure it is different with others...

Hello Fiveelementaltao,

 

I'm sorry if I offended you. I've been practicing for many many years and I've had similar experiences, including studying Teutonic (Rosicrucian and Germanic) magic, Wicca, Qabbalism, the ancient book of the dead, etc. In fact in my youth I was very interested in those sorts of things. For the last eighteen years or so I've been practicing Taoism from a more simplistic perspective. The technique I suggested you try has worked for me in regards to what you were talking about, hence my suggestion. I am not trying to compete with you at all, if you are finding your study worthwhile, that's great. My input was meant to explain to you some things I've learned about meditation, mysticism, and such.

 

If you were offended, I apologize.

 

Aaron

 

edit- I also studied Native American religions for awhile. My grandfather was full blooded Passamoqouddy.

Spoken like a true scholar and gentleman. I have had some bad history on this forum so I am very skittish sometimes.

Thanks for your kind words and I hope you have a wonderful holiday season!

Hello Fiveelementtao,

 

It was an excellent essay, if I might add some things from my own experience. First the common consensus is that Tao can not be explained. Even then, people try to explain it and most people seem to lean towards the idea that it is neither nothing or something. Many people would say it is not-nothing, but not-something either. If you are meditating in an effort to achieve a state of not-nothing, simply saying nothing is going to create something. What I recommend is not saying anything and freeing your mind of thought, allowing it to be empty. When you can reach a state of silence, then you can reach that state of emptiness I think you are searching for. Even then, that alone does not bring someone an awareness of Tao. It seems to be a contradiction that only by learning can we un-learn, but it is also something most people who seem to have reached that state agree on. Most people hear the phrase "Be done with knowledge" and take it out of context, it is actually more like, "Be done with knowledge for the sake knowing". The more we learn without reason or simply to learn, the more we deviate from the actual Tao. It is only by accumulating that we can be rid of that which is accumulated and be empty.

 

Also one of the reasons people chant mantras and such is to focus the mind on the subject of the chant, in that regard, if one is chanting "fire" while meditating, there is good chance that they will begin to have an experience associated with fire. You are actually pointing yourself in the direction that you want to go. If you want to reach the state of Tao, there really is no direction to go, because it is where you are right now. That is the reason they say,

 

"Without going out of your door,

You can know the ways of the world.

Without peeping through your window,

You can see the Way of Heaven.

The farther you go,

The less you know.

 

Thus, the Sage knows without travelling,

Sees vithout looking,

And achieves without Ado." (1)

 

My suggestion is to try the form of meditation that I suggested, I call it empty mind meditation, abandon your thoughts and inclinations and just let everything go. Clear your mind of thoughts and you are an empty vessel, then you can understand what they mean by "an empty vessel is useful".

 

If you reach a state that causes you fear or where you feel overwhelmed, I would have to say that you have not reached Tao. When you reach s state where there is nothing, where on a very deep level everything seems to be as it should, then you are closer to the point you are looking for.

 

Aaron

 

(1) Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 47, Translated by John C. H. Wu

Hi Aaron... Thanks for the advice... Very lofty stuff there... Also a little over my head for me... I'm not sure where your consensus is coming from. If you are referring to philosophical taoism, then we are in different camps. I come from traditional mystical, poytheist taoism. Traditional polytheist Taosim uses mantras ALOT. So, I am in good company there. So, I don't agree with your assertion that mantras are somehow beneath Taoism or Taoist meditataion. Also, I am not sharing a Taoist exercise, this is Teutonic shamanism, which may be different than what you practice. As this is also an ecclectic syncretic discussion forum, you will find alot of people sharing different spiritual practices and integrating them into their taoist practice. This is what I am sharing here...

You started your response with the idea of sharing your experience, which sounded very cool to me, because I love sharing experiences, but then you launched right into giving me advice... Which isn't experience... and sounded more like a judgement than a sharing of experience, and that was a let down...

I'm not trying to explain Tao. Nor am I trying to attain Tao. Nor am I trying to compete with anyone else. My focus here was on the concept of WuJi and my very limited experience of it. Wuji is a subject that many taoists do speak about and share about...

Since, I am not trying to achieve perfection, enlightenment or any other idea of perfection, I give myself the right to have any feelings and experiences that occur without judgement. Since I am not trying to understand, master or explain Tao, I now have freedom to have any experience and I don't spend any time wondering if I have attained Tao or not. I would volunteer the idea that judging someone as having or not having achieved Tao is in itself also not attaining Tao... Since as you put it, Tao cannot be named or described.

Since you offered me some advice, I will offer some to you in the spirit of reciprocity. I suggest against comparing yourself to others and I suggest against trying to compete with others. Allow them their own experiences and see if you can learn from them. If in fact, you find that you are indeed superior to them in spiritual understanding, perhaps allow them their limited experiences, seek some common ground and may be someday they will be able to rise to your level of understanding...

Very interesting and informative. Do you plan on doing more podcasts anytime soon? I really enjoyed the first 2

Thanks Tao Apprentice! Yes! I just finished a new podcast a few minutes ago.

http://thunderwizard.podbean.com/

It is ready on the podbean site but it will probably take a little while before it shows up on the thunder website or on itunes...

Hope you like it,

Mike

Wuji in the Teutonic Tradition

In Taoism we are taught that the highest state of being is that of Wuji (emptiness, limitless, Infinite) Wuji is the state of our original essence.

In my Teutonic practices, I frequently work with the Northern direction. In taoism, North is the direction of Water Element. In Tengerist shamanism, North is the direction of the warrior shaman. In taoist martial arts, North is the direction of the Dark Warrior who is also the spiritual Warrior who fights demons.

In the Teutonic tradition, North is the realm of Nifleheim (Mist World.) On the Teutonic World Tree, Nifleheim is one of the nine branches or worlds on the Tree of Life that supports the cosmos. Nifleheim is the source of the primordial waters that nourish all of creation.

In the North, I have placed the goddess Nerthuz who is the goddess of the waters and the goddess of death.

So, while meditating toward the North, I began to silently chant the name "Nerthuz," and I felt a prompting to work with the rune for Her name which is "Naught." It is the 10th Rune in the Elder Futhark, has the sound "N" and looks like an I with a slash through it.

The word Rune is translated as "secret" but I prefer the translation "whisper." When chanting any sound, whether it be runes, mantras or one of the six healing breaths, I find I get much more benefit from gently whispering than from audible sound.

I began silently chanting the sound "naught" toward the northerly realm of the waters over and over and I began to feel a deep, empty power of pure potential. There was the powerful sense of the chaos of pure unrealized potential. I felt myself being drawn into a swirling, chaotic force that invited me to allow myself to be dismantled into a state of No-thing-ness. I allowed my consciousness to venture into this empty power for as long as I could until it became so frightening, that I willed myself back into normal consciousness.

After my meditation, I did some more study into the rune "Naught." Runes are most commonly used for divination and so most of the meanings for each rune is based on the assumption that the person views the runic power from outside themselves. But, I have found that when I view the runes from the inside, that I get a different understanding of the power behind the symbol. In the case of Naught the rune is translated as "Need Fire." the symbol is representative of the two sticks used to start a fire. It is called "need" because one usually does not go through the hassle of rubbing two sticks together unless one needs to create warmth. So, need is representative of the need to innovate, to change, to learn. But as I was chanting "Naught" I began to understand another aspect of the rune as being the power of "Not."

The word "Naught" means nothing or No-thing. The etymology of Naught in English comes from two words "Na-Wight." Na is the proto germanic prefix of negation and the word Wight is the Old English word for "creature." In pre-christian times Wight was the word for any earth or elemental spirit. It has the connotation of any living entity. Wight carries with it the pre-christian Teutonic understanding that all beings whether "spiritual" or physical are natural parts of creation. They may only be shadows in our dimension, but the Teutons understood that there were multiple dimension on top of our world of "Middle Earth." So, the word Na-Wight actually means "No-Life" or "No-being" i.e., Wuji or Wu Ji, Wu-Qi.

Naught has taught me more about the concept of Wuji that has been so important to my taoist training. It is nice to see that these universal concepts are available to us all whatever our culture or language... If we dig deeply enough...

Quite the contrary, I'm surprised you haven't noticed.

I think you deserve better than this.

As for your wild speculations, they'd have me really amused, if they were issued with less hypocrisy... But still, they're worth a giggle.

 

edit: darn 'spells'

I have nothing but good wishes for you

i'm all good, until you make me react!).

Hmmm,... until I make you react... interesting...

Still alot of personal judgement in your post toward me.

Y'know, Little1, usually when people attack me on this forum I tend to take it personally. But in your case something different happens. I get this picture in my mind of a little kid who was constantly belittled and minimized by some male authority figure (I'm guessing your dad.) I see this little boy standing there with his arms crossed and furious because no one takes him seriously. I'm willing to bet that whenever that little boy tried to express himself or stand up for himself, instead of listening to him, this authority figure would shame the boy and hurl personal insults to get him to be quiet. I can imagine how frustrating and painful that would be...

So, whenever you say hurtful things to me, Little1, instead of reacting in kind, I am going to imagine picking up that hurt and angry little boy and giving him a big 'ol bear hug, kissing both sides of his cheeks and then I give him a big grin and say...

I have nothing but good wishes for you

May I share? I do some stunts/pranks/dance, as part of my searching for paths of least resistance:

 

Awesome!

There is this common misconception that being positive justifies next to everything.

IMO it doesn't. It's just a mask behind which people "innocently" throw poisoned darts at one anther...

I dislike hypocritical positivity more than I do honest negativity...

I've spoken my mind, and maintain what I said.

 

L1

 

edit "spells"

And yet I still have nothing but good wishes for you.

neiye, My apologies for being so harsh with you. I have some very strong feelings about this issue. I sometimes look before leaping. I am more the aggressive than passive aggressive type. I am still working on that issue. my apologies.

I did read your post and I still think your analogy is not applicable here. If I were badogue, your car analogy would anger me also because I believe it minimizes his pain. ( you may have not meant it that way, but I can understand why he might think so) Chia's book is not a car. badogue is not responsible to know about any unspoken dangers in the practice beforehand. If the ghostwriters really did forget to put any warnings in the book. That is also not badogue's fault. That is Chia's fault for allowing the book to go to print without that warning. (I personally wonder if Chia himself even knew if these practices were dangerous or not.) Badogue has every right to be upset if he was harmed doing something that he had no reason to suspect was dangerous. And I still think that if all these other people who are not having problems were more sympathetic instead of either being judgmental or minimizing his situation, badogue might not be so resistant to sharing it openly. But as little1 has now twice demonstrated, there are many on this forum who have no problem resort to making personal attacks against those who hold contrary opinions that (apparently) they feel threatened by. I have not attacked little1 in the slightest even after some pretty nasty provocation on his part and he still wants to make this about me and call me disgusting, even after complimenting and thanking him for some really good stuff he is doing...

little1

your signature says, "he started it" which is usually the excuse little kids give to their parents when they are punished for fighting with other kids. So, does that mean you are small pugnacious child?

In my signature are links to lots and lots of free teachings, videos, podcasts and other things that I put many hours of my time into sharing things for free with anyone interested. So, I'm sorry if that disgusts you....

I am somewhat amused as to why you feel the need to STILL attack me when I have said nothing critical of you personally or responded to any of your provocations... I have nothing but good wishes for you, my friend...

I sometimes don't understand why you feel the need to post.

It's clear that you didn't even bother to read carefully what the poor guy said.

But then I look at the links in the signature,

and this urge of yours suddently seems to make sense.

Disgusting.

 

@neiye

I read your post, and there aren't any personal attacks that I can see...

Thanks for saying yourself things that I'm already tired of repeating.

This illustrates my point quite well. Attempting to prove your point by diverting attention to my signature and making attacks against my character instead of staying on topic. I have yet to attack anyone's character or nor have I called anyone "disgusting."

What neiye did was to turn the problem around and blame badogue for getting sick. That is insensitive. The car argument doesn't apply here. When Toyota had a defective accellerator problem, they did not go around blaming the drivers for having accidents. They recalled the vehicles because they knew they had a responsibility to fix the problem. the drivers of those vehicles had every right to expect that the product they bought off the showroom floor would operate under certain safety guidelines. Anyone buying a book has the right to expect the same thing. Just as many toyota drivers were able to drive their vehicles without incident. That does not take away from those who were needlessly injured by driving them while being defective.

But, everyone here seems to agree that these techniques have the potential to be dangerous. I have yet to hear anyone deny that sexual kung fu was was traditionally taught in secret because it had the potential to be dangerous.

I still believe that putting this stuff in books is irresponsible. If just

one person pauses as a result of these kinds of threads, I am very happy for that.

I'm happy that so many like you little1 are able to practice it without incident. I have not wished you personally any ill will. Nor have I suggested you stop your practice. I support your efforts to teach some balance and context in this regard and to my knowledge I have never tried to attack your efforts to do so. If I have not said so, it is because I do not think you care about my endorsement and your personal attack seems to bolster that feeling. But, for the record: Thank you for trying to teach some balance in regards to Chia's sexual kung fu. J

I have seen people respond with anger against badogue for being sensitive and unwilling to defend his sharing of his experience. He has every right to heal from this at his own pace. And I understand his reluctance to want to discuss his experiences with people who seem more interested in defending their practices than showing compassion to someone who seems to be in need of 1) sympathy and THEN 2)maybe some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

And for the record. I LOVE Chia's first book. Some others I have no opinion about because I know nothing of those practices. His reputation is anything but squeeky clean. But that is not relevent. What is relevant to me in term of Chia is that sexual kung fu can be dangerous. This guy isn't the first to have problems from it and he won't be the last...

I am really amazed at the insensitivity of some people on this forum. Now, you are attacking him because of his grammar? It's obvious English is not his primary language. His message is very clear. Chia's Sexual Kung Fu techniques caused him physical injury and he wants to warn people about practicing these techniques without a teacher. Someone PLEASE explain what is wrong with suggesting people find a teacher???

Why are people unable to sympathize with him? Instead of attacking him for nonsense, why not offer him some CONSTRUCTIVE advice?

It is also a FACT that many people have been injured doing Chia's sexual practices.

If you are so secure in Chia's teachings, then there is no need to treat badogue like he is a threat to your practice.

I think one of the issues I have with the traditional steps is the idea of a "moral inventory". They try to soften it in places, but overall it is still a "moral inventory", not a list of character defects. In my mind as soon as you throw the word "moral" in their, you are saying that alcoholism arises from immorality. I've never believed that. I think alcoholism arises, not of immorality, not out of fear, but out of suffering. One practices and addiction because they suffer, even if they are not aware of their suffering. The practice of the addiction is a distraction, it allows one to escape the suffering for a period of time. I don't think that immorality plays a part in this suffering, rather our actions play a part in it.

 

Anyways that's just one area where I disagree with the general consensus. If we wanted to really discuss this, perhaps we should start with the alternate step one?

 

We came to understand that we had a problem that we could not control and that our lives were out of control.

 

So how does this differ from the current thinking about the step?

 

Aaron

I understand where you are coming from. The wording of the fourth step has led many IMO to misunderstand the real function of that step. In reality, it is not a moral inventory. Many people mistake the word "moral" to mean the step requires hundreds of pages of rehashing one's life or examining the "bad deeds" they have done. In actuality none of that is in the big book concerning that step.

The step is really very brief when done according to the big book. It is about honestly examining one's resentments and the incorrect attitudes and expectations that triggered those resentments. In AA, they talk about how resentments are the #1 cause of drinking and re-lapse.

If #4 were to be reworded, another possibility might be,

"made a searching and fearless examination of the self-imposed causes of all our resentments."