fiveelementtao

If I buy a product and have problems with it, I would first contact their customer service help line for the company for that product. Who would know more about the problem I am having with the product than those trained to know about the product.

 

If one is having problems with a particular practice, such as this, why not contact someone that has been trained in the practice? They would most likely know the most about the problem and how to help. Why should someone trust an anonymous person on a forum over someone who is trained and certified in the practice? That is not to discredit anyone here on the forums. I have read much and know that there are some very knowledgeable people on here.

 

Don't take it that I am not compassionate towards their dilemma. I want them to get the help that is needed to correct their problem. I just think the best way to do that would be to get in touch with someone that has experience with it. No one has to continue the practice if it is not right for them, but they need to correct their problem first.

Hi Walker,

I think the best way to correct the problem is not create the unnecessary scenario that creates the problem in the first place.

Perhaps you have been one of the majority without problems. perhaps you are a certified instructor. But, why does that preclude you from stepping back to at least consider the possibility that the practice as it is taught now through books may be hazardous even if to a small minority? this is already a given trend that many people are continuing to have serious problems and they are not calling facilitators... that possibility should have been considered ( and would have been considered by traditional teachers) before simply putting it in books for any yahoo to read... This is reflective (IMO) of the lack of foresight by those who put such techniques into books. We're not talking about any product like a radio that if it doesn't work properly is not going to cause major health issues. We are talking about what is traditionally considered a high level energy practice that has always been transmitted from teacher to pupil by a master who has the ability to monitor the student and make any necessary changes BEFORE any symptoms arise. Usually if these kinds of symptoms become noticeable to the practitioner, the imbalance has been there for a while and by the time symptoms arise, It is not a minor problem anymore and it may be necessary for an energy healer to come in and fix it. Sometimes, without a knowledgeable healer, these problems will persist or get worse...

And I believe your approach puts the responsibility on the uneducated practitioner, when it should be the responsibility of the teacher to evaluate the student before hand.

I'm not trying to ruin the party for those who have enjoyed the practice. and there is no danger of these practices going back into obscurity. They are out there in print for everyone to see. But, I do think it is only prudent to let others know who may be considering these techniques to really think about the possible risks and if they choose to take those risks, to make sure that they have the resources necessary to fix any problems. But, the problem is that those who usually have these problems, probably would not have been given permission, because the master would have seen the potential for abuse or misuse before teaching that person. That is why they were always taught in secret to only those who had proved themselves capable of practicing them properly.

How many that have had problems with Sexual Kung Fu as taughty by Chia in his books actually ever attempted to contact a Healing Tao Instructor as directed to do so in the books? How many have not had problems and never came to a forum to discuss not having problems?

Hi Walker... I don't know... I think you have the priorities backwards. Let's assume that it's only 2%... That's still a big number. Assuming that they have chosen not to contact a healing Tao instructor. Let's ask why? For those I have heard about, the physical symptoms are so severe that contacting HT instructor is really not the issue anymore. They just want their health back and I don't think the average HT instructor is qualified to treat people with severe physical illness or symptoms. The fact remains that it is a very risky practice even under the supervision of a master. HT instructors are not masters. And just because Winn and Chia are familiar with these techniques and teach them does not make them masters either. I know some methods too, but that does not make me a master in regards to sexual kung fu. Winn has had to go back and "update" many of his practices as a direct result of a large number of people who have become seriously ill. (and those are only the ones we know about.) So, just because others have not had problems does not mean that those who have had problems are somehow at fault. That is why these practices are traditionally only taught in person.

I suppose it depends on the context. The 12 steps were hashed and re-hashed over and over again by the founders of AA for years until they found the version that worked best for Alcoholics. So, I guess there is no wrong way to write the steps and it is certainly logical to assume that other versions would work well for other people.

From what I've been told by people in AA, the idea of a higher power is crucial for the alcoholic mindset. As I have been told by my friends, The main issue with recovering alcoholics is getting their egos out of the way so that spiritual concepts can take hold and supersede the instinct for alcohol. They have told me that it is also made clear that the phrase "God as you understand Him" can mean absolutely anything and that the alcoholic is encouraged to experiment with the idea of god and can mean anything including a doorknob, a lightbulb, a deity or an idea. It doesn't matter as long as the alcoholic is willing to get rid of the old idea that was not working for them... I have also been told that making alcoholics comfortable is not necessarily the best thing for this process to occur. So, maybe part of the process of wrestling with the aspect of "higher power" that makes them uncomfortble in the first place may even hold within it the answer to overcoming their addiction.

Since the steps were originally designed for recovering from alcohol addiction, it had a pretty specific focus.

Having said that, I would agree that the principles in the steps can probably be tweeked around for other purposes based on the specific needs of those people...

Anyway, I am no expert in this area. just floating thoughts about...

woops double post

Well yes read the books.. thats how intellegent people learn. But do your own research. Or like this guy or a couple qigong practitioners mess it up and write how bad it is. Maybe those few are correct out of hundreds of thousands of qigong folks who enjoy energy cultivation and are living a happy life. Would be proper to state where we could see the "reversal" you claim has taken place, because its nonsense. Nechuan has it right, "fluid is not the goal", its just a resource of energy for your mind. Just do your homework and decide for yourself what these muslces are for and if strengthening muscles in your body makes sense or not. Happy Holidays young dude.

You are making a few unsubstantiated assumptions.

I am not a young dude.

I have read Chia's books.

I have done my research.

I was celibate for over 6 years and during that time I practiced retention and recirculation. And I have practiced high level qigong while not being celibate for 14 years. So, I do know the difference and can speak from personal experience.

So, I not only can read a book. But, I can also learn directly from masters themselves. I have been around long enough to see over the years what has happened to many who have only read books. You claim that intelligent people learn from books. Does that mean that all those masters who learned from real people over thousands of years are somehow more stupid than those who have only learned from books?

If you do some research just on this forum alone you will find many more than just a couple of people who have been severely injured from doing sexual kung fu only from books and you will hear from some very respected healers who have had the very real displeasure of seeing the severe trauma that can occur from this kind of stuff. ( from more than just a couple of people.)

My friend, you certainly have the right to disagree, but I would be more interested in an opinion backed up with some research and intelligent evidence rather than taking potshots at my character just to try to prove your point. Insulting me has no actual relevance on the facts.

You seem to make the claim that Winn and Chia have not publicly reversed themselves on their Sexual Kung Fu techniques.

Here is Michael Winn Himself admitting on his forum that he has reversed himself on numerous sexual techniques

Stop using the Million Dollar Point. I recommend that NO ONE use it at any time for the very reason you have cited. The method is too external and creates negative side effects.

 

it is one of many sexual techniques that I have updated in my Healing Love/Tao Secrets of Sex homestudy course, based on my teaching thousands of students over many decades.

Anybody can write a book. That does not necessarily mean that they know what they are talking about. Books are helpful study aids in conjunction with learning from a teacher. There is a huge difference between reading about qigong fundamentals in a book and trying to practice high level energy techniques from a book that are usually only taught in person with a teacher who can guide you and correct any questions or mistakes. Learning from real teachers in person is the preferred method over books, not the other way around.

Wow FET, I'm surprised at you... tsk, tsk...

 

Seeing that you were referencing my post I can only assume your denigration was aimed at myself ... so please explain how my expressed view was either:

 

* Sticking my head in the sand

* Depending on others for spiritual validation

 

???

Nope stiggie that wasn't aimed at you...My apologies... The context of that statement in your post was clear to me and was not offensive. It was repeated a couple of times by others which I felt might have been aimed at me.. Listen we all know I'm a hothead... my post was not aimed at anyone in particular...It was my ineffectual attempt to express my frustration that some who had expressed resistance to even the idea of objectively investigating the facts meant that their experiences from reading the material would somehow be invalidated if they learned that Castaneda was not who they thought he was. I have a personal issue when it comes to (what I perceive as) worshipping sacred cows without critical thinking skills. I also need to continue working on patience and allow people to have their issues and work through them at their schedule, not mine... My apologies... I've beaten this horse to death, so I shall take my leave of this thread...

Mike

Study for yourself the "Masters" Mantak chia, Daniel reid books...

This is the problem. Getting sexual energy techniques from books...

Both Mantak Chia and Michael Winn have publicly reversed themselves on sexual kung fu as a result of many people who have severely injured themselves from their books.

one of many recent casualties of Mantak Chia here on TTB's is here

This is just one of many. Some Medical Qigon practitioners here on TTB's can also tell you of the many patients they have treated who have severely screwed themselves up practicing this stuff from books. Some people now cannot get erections and much worse.

16 years ago I began studying Tantra in great depth. One of the first things I came across [no pun intended] was the semen retention thing. Unfortunately many schools said different things on if/when.

So I pretty much had to spend the next long period trying to see for my self what was good for me.

 

In the periods where i was not doing much meditation, I never noticed much from regular ejaculation, unless I was doing martial art with lots of low leg strength stances. If I ejaculated in a few days before, a lot of my seeming progress would be lost, as my legs/foundation would be shakier.

 

As I have been meditating for a long time, I have found the longer I am from an ejaculation, the more steady my mind or concentration is, as well as my energetic responses.

 

For Instance, In terms of tummo kind of practices, where I have been able to heat up my body with my chi field, and sit outside in a hail storm wearing only shorts and a Tshirt, but remain feeling toasty, all that disappeared after a bunch of Great sex, with ejaculation.

 

Conservation gives me a kind of stable Inner warmth feeling. I like to ejaculate once every 3-4 weeks, when I get to the point that If I do not I will have no chance of going to sleep. When I let that little bit off the top so to speak, It does not seem to negatively Impact my practices.

 

 

But, one Grey area, for me is When my heart is really really Open. Like when I am a pulsing field exchange of Love with the Universe kind of Open. In that space ejaculation seems to give me energy, but often in that space is also when Injaculation [the real kind] happens. [naturally]

 

A friend learnt from a Tahitian Shaman, and he said they use ejaculation to gain energy, but when they tried to share this with westerners it did not work. He described that their [our] bodies are too closed.

This seems to mirror my experiences. In that open hearted space my body softens and more 'armouring' melts away. Reich's work pointed out that when we are completely 'de armoured' the body is in a constant state of Orgasmicness. I have experienced this... lol

 

So I wonder sometimes whether the traditions from closed warlike or patriarchal cultures, developed semen conservation systems, but older shamanistic cultures, who at least in places like Tahiti and Hawaii where body armouring was less present, Just had wonderful energising ejaculatory sex?

 

Any opinions?

 

Be Well!

really interesting. That answers alot of questions for me.

I spent 6 1/2 years working with celibacy. I experimented with semen retention, Million dollar point etc... I was practicing a very intense energy martial art and form of mysticism. What I found ( at least within the martial system I was using) was that ejaculation was not really the issue. It was relationships. I came to find out that ejaculation was combined with either meaningless sex or with someone that had co-dependent issues, that my energy was severely drained.

If however, I had real lovemaking (including ejaculation) with someone I cared for and who also was strong enough in themselves to give their energy to me without strings or expectations, then we both felt our energy increase.

After my 6 1/2 years of no relationships, I had meaningless sex and I immediately felt all the energy drain out of my legs and proceeded to get a very nasty case of the flu.

I am married now and lovemaking with my wife helps my energy and MA power.

there have been times when I have not ejaculated for long periods, but I was also practicing very high level energy, qigong, meditation, MA etc.. and I was able to go for long periods without ejaculation as a result of the energy work. It was never forced. When sexual urges got strong, I allowed myself release.

I think when people are seeking sexual retention without it being a natural result of high level energy work within a good system, I think they have the cart before the horse. Rocket fuel is no good without a rocket...

My .02

You just keep going to your therapist, OK? and good luck

 

Whew!

Thanks buddy! sound advice. Will do

Ok, so I'm flipping through my Castaneda collection looking to see where it says that Personal Power and Impeccability means sticking my head in the sand and dependence on others for spiritual validation... Hmmm, not there... Oh, wait... Nope.... Still looking... Nope! Hmm, Can't seem to find it anywhere...

We're just going in circles now.. Guess it's time for me to leave you guys alone in this thread... Sorry to have harshed your buzz...

Yes, I know Michael is a real person and has cultivated well and is a good teacher. If you like his book then I'll look at it some more, your recommendation has value.

 

I guess I'll get the DVD, that way I can see what he does, but It's all so silly, why am I doing this/ I've probably seen it all before, so It's just to check him out, to see how well he moves, and to see his (marketing) methods. All DVDs like this are marketing, I'm thinking of making a DVD.

 

As you probably know the problem is finding someone with more GOOD chi power than me to learn from, and that's a big problem. There are only four of those in the Northwest. Three of them are my friends and teachers, one is my kung fu brother and fearless clan leader, and getting introduced to the fourth is on the back burner. I'm busy making a homebuilt airplane now and my cultivation plate is already overflowing. My brother wants me to make a DVDs of my chi kung, so I'm making one soon of our beginning style, but it's will be just for private distribution within our family ... because DVDs are marketing.

 

So send me a DVD and a bill and I promise I'll watch the whole thing, even do it too.

 

How much is the DVD if I already got the book?

Starjumper, my friend... My endorsement of michael's book and DVD was not directed at you. I was just saying some nice things about someone I respect.

But you raise a good question. Why are you doing it? You are obviously an advanced practitioner. I assume you have more than enough practices. If it doesn't work for you, so what?

As far as the quality of Qi is concerned, I see that a little differently than you. In my experience Qi is made "good" or bad as a result of my intent and emotions. Qi itself is neutral. No practice is going to hurt me if I try it one time? You're a master. So, if you don't like michael's practice for whatever reason, I am sure you have the power to balance yourself if it turms out not be "good" chi.

Although it is true that mixing practices can sometimes cause imbalances. If a practice is an effective one, it is not going to reduce the effectiveness of my other practices. So, I don't think you have to worry about whether another practice is Good or bad. Maybe just different.

So send me a DVD and a bill

Who are you asking to send you a DVD? It is a little unlikely that anyone is going to send you a DVD and a bill. If you want the DVD, you will probably have to buy it first. Why should you get special treatment and have somebody pay for shipping to you and then hope you pay them back?...

My friend, please don't take this the wrong way. But you sound a little paranoid. Have you considered professional counseling? I myself see a therapist twice a month. I have been going to counseling for 30 years. It helps my qigong training immensely. Maybe that is a better idea for your training than trying to find the next big Qigong practice.. Just a thought...

I loved Michael's book. I also got his DVD and have enjoyed that also. The energy is very subtle and powerful and might get missed by some. But, as I get older, I enjoy the "emptiness" in the high level teachings like Michael's. Michael is IMO a real master for the Western World. Those that have the privilege of studying with him are indeed lucky. IME, it is rare to find someone with his level of mastery and also humble awareness that he is just another seeker on the path.

I think this has been an excellent discussion ... good job everybody !!!

 

Regardless of authenticity, the effects of CC's works stand as testimony that they were indeed an act of power. For good or ill, directly or indirectly, reading the series has transformed the perspective of thousands of people.

 

If there was ever any "one good thing" that I see has come out of CC's efforts is that, by presenting a believable alternate view of the world, a solid blow has been delivered to the fixated Western perception. A blow whose ripples can still be tangibly seen and felt in today's popular exploration of spiritual evolution.

 

So yep, there is seemingly irrefutable evidence that CC was a fraud, and this makes the reliability of his works questionable at best.

 

But there is also this ... the alignment of power that sparks the transformation of consciousness can come from any source ... a holy book ... the words of a master ... the gentle caress of a lover's hand ... a sunset that inflames the horizon ... or the fraudulent babblings of a sex-starved, ego-centric try-hard.

 

It all depends on one's own personal power and impeccability.

 

@ Stig I don't think your points are in question. I agree with them and with Ya Mus' points that the Universe is holographic in nature and we do not know all the why's of it all. I am able to accept those truths and still want to take a good, hard, objective, critical look at the entire teaching. As someone stated earlier even a bad guru can teach truth to a good student.

Castaneda's personal failings and fraud aside, there are also some very destructive elements to his books that come out later in the series and I believe it is helpful to make a distinction between castaneda, the legitimate traditions he borrowed from and his made up teachings. As is exemplified by a very understandable human desire to exonerate Castaneda in order to validate our own experiences, there is also(IMO) a very real danger that people will mistake the messenger for the message swallow the whole ball of wax and become dependent on the poisonous aspects of the entire context of his teachings.

I understand people's desire to want to protect fans of castaneda from those of us who may look like we are trying to minimize their experiences. That is not my desire at all...

I believe, however that if someone only reads a couple of his books or reads them casually, they might miss the distinction between his borrowed teachings and the stuff he made up himself. The teachings that we all resonated with and that propelled us into opening our perceptions to other realities and that he so very eloquently and beautifully expressed are borrowed from existing teachings within established spiritual traditions already in existence.

The stuff he made up however IMO are NOT helpful to spiritual evolution and encourage spiritual dependence. Especially if people feel a dependence on Castaneda himself. He uses the legitmate teachings to legitimize his destructive made-up teachings.

By pointing out the difference between the man, the real teachings and the made up teachings, then we are forced to go back through the concepts he wrote about and make critical judgements about what works and what doesn't.

For instance, when I was reading his books I remember having very powerful experiences when digesting his teachings about impeccability, stopping the world, the recapitulation exercise etc...

But the stuff he made up about the assemblage point, the warrior having to cut themself off from all personal relationships, the denying of emotions, the mindless eagle who devours human awareness, creating an almost daibolical attachment to "inorganic beings," Don Juan avoiding the Eagle by hiding in an ant hill and other things, had a distinctly unpleasant, limiting and different feel to them than what I believe are legitimate teachings that he borrowed. I remember being very excited when tensegrity came out. When I watched the tapes, Florinda Grau and the other witches had a very.... "disfunctional" look about them. I remember getting the feeling that they were emotionally stunted and repressed. At the time, it bothered me and fostered alot of doubts that I had been ignoring because I wanted the freedom that Don Juan talked about so much. But I told myself it was because they were "impeccable warriors." But I remember seeing what looked like repressed fear and anger in their eyes. Of course it could just be my projection, but with everything we know about what happened, my perception make more sense to me now.

By the end of the series, especially in the last two books "The art of dreaming" and "The active side of Infinity," Castaneda had moved away from the really cool liberating stuff in the first few books and was teaching stuff that still reminds me of Fundamentalist christianity. The "mud shadow" Demons that feed off of human emotion, the need to join his warrior group to "escape" the Eagle, the addiction to the inorganic beings, there were many other things that IMO fostered only fear, cynicism and existential dependance. The liberating quest for freedom in the first books by the last books had devolved into a frantic, fear based quest for salvation from a cruel, empty lifeless universe bent on devouring us clueless humans. And instead of enjoying the quest for freedom that he introduced in the first books with the Tibetan, Taoist and Hindu teachings, he borrowed, the craziness and fear he was teaching in order to promote his cult was IMO very destructive.

So, while some may resent what I and others are saying , It is not from a desire to destroy anyone's enjoyment of the truths he did teach, but to hopefully spur people to make an effort to distinguish the real teachings that do not depend on any guru to impart but are freely available to us all and the other stuff, that IMO breed fear insecurity and dependence.

Im looking for some WELL KNOWN method from some master to get rid of lust.

 

I think lust causes me wet dreams and premature ejac. So Im trying to find a goog way to clean my mind of years of accumulated lust images provenient from pornography.

Stay away from pornography and find a girlfriend who wants to explore your spiritual path and have normal emotionally fulfilling sex with her. The way to satiate sexual feelings is to satisfy them in a healthy way.

The sure method to increase lust is to forcefully abstain from sex.

Im not trying retention.

 

I just have a wet dream of twice every week. Thats my total ejaculation count every week. (No sex).

 

Im 23.

 

 

What is the count for having a health sexual life until I get very old?

OK. the maximum amount of ejaculations and still be healthy for a 23 year old man is 2...per day!

I echo what has already been said that the concept that seminal retention or abstinence from ejaculation will somehow make you stronger or give you more chi power is nonsense.

I understand seminal retention and limiting ejaculation is very popular now. But it is not representative of many respected traditional taoist teachings. It has been taken out of context and completely misunderstood. What is suggested in some very high level traditional taoist teachings is that one should be conscious of the their personal relationships, NOT obsessing about one's bodily fluids. One should meditate on the emotional energy that is being transfered between people in their lives. Sexual relationships only being ONE aspect of that meditation. Having sex with someone who is not in synch with you spiritually is seen as throwing your emotional energy away NOT sexual energy. The sexual fluids are not the focus here. You can retain semen or abstain from ejaculation until it is coming out your nose, but if you have toxic personal relationships, your energy is being sapped and THAT is what makes you sick or age faster. In some traditional schools of Tao, sexual techniques are absolutely forbidden because they are seen as ineffective not to mention dangerous. This is something that many people who only get their teachings from books may not understand. The founder of the first major taoist sect (after the celestial masters sect) which spawned all the other sects was named Lady Wei and she specifically prohibited any sexual techniques. Sexual kung fu was considered a "layman" technique that would only work in a very limited way. Those who were learning the inner door techniques were taught different things. IME and IMO, the need to retain semen is indicative of psychological insecurity and control issues. these personal issues will inhibit a student's energetic and spiritual progress. Tao is about flowing harmoniously with life.

If you really want to learn methods of long life... find a teacher... If you can';t find a teacher, then seek to live harmoniously. That is the highest teaching...

my .02

I just can't argue with you guys. All I know are the odd things that happened to me, things I can't even begin to describe, while reading those books. It happened with my husband as well. I know that your arguments must be right - there are too many of you extremely intelligent and aware people telling me otherwise. It's like trying to convince someone that just ate a chocolate truffle that chocolate actually tastes awful. But your arguments are, intellectually.....overwhelming.

Manitou, My friend..

there is no need for argument. You can have your experiences AND castaneda can still be a fraud. Nobody is trying to take your experiences away from you. This is a completely different issue. If you simply talked about your personal experiences without trying to salvage Castaneda's reputation in the process, there would be nothing to say. I recommend sharing those experiences. You don't need Castaneda's reputation to validate your own experiences. I'm sure many people would love to hear about them.

But do you see the difference? No one has denied the validity of some of his teachings. That is because they come from legitimate sources. For me, I would not have even weighed in on the subject if you hadn't tried to prove castaneda was not a fraud. Because personal experiences are just that. Just like feelings. No can tell you that your feelings are wrong. Have you considered why you feel the need to validate castaneda's reputation to validate your personal experiences? I had to go through this when I investigated him...

For the record, I had very powerful experiences myself while reading his books. So, I completely share your experiences, but I also don;t feel the need to salvage his reputation especially when I discovered that what he teaches does come from real mystical teachings.

Does that make sense?

Mike

 

Hi Manitou,

You've put alot of effort into this post and made some very intelligent arguments in favor of Castaneda. But, I'm not completetely clear on what your stance is now in regards to his authenticity. It sounds as though you want to portray him as authentic. I gather from this post that you did not watch the hour long documentary about Castaneda embedded in this thread. I think if you do, it will discuss many of the things you seem to be defending in this post.

 

You say you think that he never intended us to think of Don Juan as a real person. I read each of his books very intensely. at least four to five times each. (I still have most of my collection complete with dog eared pages and underlines) He very clearly posits the idea that Don Juan is a real person that both he and his four closest students trained directly under for years. Both in normal consciousness and in the "second attention."

 

As I said, I think the documentary would be very enlightening. It pretty conclusively proves that there was no one person that he based Don Juan on. It is pretty convincingly shows that Don Juan Matus was not a real person nor was it a pseudonym for a real person. He was a completely fictional character that Castaneda invented. In fact the one Native Woman who does remember Castaneda claims he never was interested in any of their ways. He only chased women. None of what he writes in any of his books corresponds to any native cultural practices or beliefs in the americas. If you watch the film, you will see that his writings result in very serious negative effects on the Yaqui and huichtol indians of mexico. He caused their cultures some very serious damage spreading false info about them which resulted in many people going to jail because castaneda brought their (huichtol) peyote rituals into public light.

 

You list some of the key concepts of Castaneda's works. But as the evidence shows, he stole all those concepts from other spiritual writings. Sometimes verbatim. "stopping the internal dialogue" is an East Indian meditative technique as well as taoist. "losing self importance" is also found in both East Indian and taoist teachings. "The recapitulation" breath and meditation is actually a meditation technique found in Kundalini yoga. I found this out while I was studying Kundalini yoga while simultaneously studying Castaneda's books. At the time I thought it unusual that the exact breath movement and "recapitulation" of past memories was found in yogic meditation. At the time, I chalked it up to coincidence. But, now I think he stole that too. None of his teachings came from Native american or mexican sources. He stole alot of his stuff from east Indian and Chinese mysticism and repackaged it as "toltec."

 

His dreaming practices are stolen directly from tibetan and taoist dream yoga. His teachngs for the left side, do correspond to accessing the right brain, so I agree with you there. But his energy map of the human being does not correspond with any known energy teaching anywhere on the planet.

 

In terms of god and religion. He actually has Don Juan state that there is no god many different times. To be precise, he claims that according to Toltec teachings the supreme being is called the Eagle because when a person dies their awareness is swallowed up and consumed by an enormous being that looks like an eagle. He also states that everyone in the Universe will be swallowed up by this entity and lose their entire awareness and cease to exist in any form whatsoever. According to Castaneda, only those people who are accepted into a "warrior party" and practice his teachings under the direct guidance of a nagual (castaneda) will survive death. (that means that everyone else on the planet including those who read his books are doomed to be eaten by the eagle and cease to exist.) As far as Don Juan goes, in one of his later books, Castaneda claims that when Don Juan transferred his consciousness into Infinity, he really shrunk himself down and took up residence in an ant hill. He even has a toltec version of the devil. This is found very late in the series where he claims that every person is being constantly attacked by interdimensional demons who are sucking the lifeforce out of us and causing our deaths. He claims that these demons are responsible for our lower base human emotions like hate, greed etc. He is not being metaphoric though. He wants us to believe some outside forces are killing us.

 

In terms of tensgrity, That is a really bad ripoff of taoist Qigong. He created tensegrity after studing Tai Chi and Qigong with a Qigong teacher. As I said, I bought those tapes and tried that stuff for a few weeks. I can't speak for anyone else, but it was completely worthless for me. Five minutes of any actual qigong will achieve more energy results than that stuff, IME and IMO.

 

You claim that Castaneda became a self realized man. I think if you actually look at the real evidence of his life you will see that he was anything but self-realized. He was married to two of his students at the same time. He was having a sexual relationship with at least two more of his female students. He had an incestuous sexual relationship with his adopted daughter who committed suicide after Castaneda's death. He claimed that his sperm would climb up into their brains and grant them magical powers.

 

He was a brilliant, extremely perceptive person. But all cult leader are. That's how they get disciples. In the end, though, Castaneda died of liver cancer and apparently also had diabetes. In my very limited understanding of liver issues according to taoist thought, he must have been harboring intense resentment and anger in order to give himself liver cancer. This was not a man who was energy master.

 

Although his writings and most of the concepts ( in the early works at least) share some extremely powerful spiritual concepts. And though he wrotes them beautifully, for me, knowing how cruel he was in life, I cannot ever read his books again. IMO, I believe people are better served looking for the original teachings from Taoism and East Indian mysticism in the original contexts.

How to play a middle eastern "sounding" scale on a basic Native American Pentatonic Flute

well,you think this is impressing?almost feel sorry for your understanding about fighting or lack of experience

this is the traditional martial arts bullshit,sparring an non resisting opponent with techniques that would make you look stupid in a real fight.the other guy is doing nothing,WHATEVER YOU DO WILL WORK AND LOOK GOOD,PLEASE USE YOUR HEAD.wake up man.Why call this internal by the way.Its like bad karate etc.

Anyway,gotta go.ufc starts right now.watch it and think about this clown in this video.how do you think his method would work?

I want use more energy here,live in a fantasy world if you frefer,you are not alone

Sykkel, now you're just being a dick. I'm putting you into the managed blocked users bin and I'm outta this thread...

How would you describe the art that you described, which used qi to easily debilitate someone even with a few glancing blows? Internal because it was developed in China?

Go back and read that post again. You may be misinterpreting what I said. there are two examples, the first guy was overwhelmed by the speed. (I was training 4 hours a day back then) That's what stopped him, not the qi power. Because he was my friend, I did not use any real chi power in the strikes. I wanted him to know that I knew that I was much faster than he was.

In the second example, I hit the guy,s forearm with my closed fist HARD. hard enough to let him know that in my style, there is no such thing as sparring. You either shoot to kill or you don't pull your gun. In that scenario I did use qi power and it did disable him. But to anyone watching, it would look like I pounded his forearm with my fist. But it is true that what he felt was the power of the strike from my internal energy. I fyou remember his comment back to me was that he thought I hit him with a pressure point. I did, but that is not what stopped him...

That is a lot different than some of the other internal martial arts, which, while they talk about being able to generate a lot of power very easily, don't mention much about shocking people in the ways you did.

I don't know about others. IME, many internal martial artists don't truly understand qi application. The old secretive guys do. If one can find one of those guys, you will see real speed, real power and real qi power also

You should explain what is your definition of ima.I have never belived in it and have no interest for it.But it has always been clear to me that empty power is the basic of internal art.and that internal art utilizes chi power,to make impact create fields around them copntrolling the opponent etc,with or without contact.Am i copletley wrong here,anybody?

Sykkel, you are mistaken on what IMAs are. There are two definitions. 1:The original definiton and 2:the popular definition and the third is the nonsense you are talking about. 1: Internal means martial arts that were invented from within (internal) china. 2 Martial arts that incorporate Qi power in their strikes, traps and takedowns.

Tai Chi is an internal martial art because it was invented in China AND incorporates qi power.

Here is an example of External Tai Chi Applications, ( I have no idea if this guy uses Qi power, but you can imagine the effectiveness if qi is also applied in these applications)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBA7LsumNGs

Its not my mission in life to make a fight like this so I certainly wont spend any money tracking theese guys dow.Funny you did want to send me to china when you yourself already have embaressd some mma guys with your 5% chi power

Oh... I didn't realize that this whole time you wanted to fight me. LOL I misunderstood you... No thanks, I have had my share of challenges. I'm too old for that now... I was under the impression you truly wanted to know if IMA's existed or not. If that were the case, then I am telling you that no IMA masters will answer any "Demo Match" challenge nonsense. Now, that may prove to you that they don't exist. That may be because according to your values, anyone who doesn't answer to public challenge matches must be a coward. This is western thinking. Chinese thinking is different. If you are truly serious and want to see if they exist, I told you exactly how to find them. If you choose not to do that, then I can only assume that you are not serious or are you are a typical westerner who feels such a sense of entitlement that you expect everything to come to you according to your terms...

You and me both know that you cant set up a fight for me,But yes I would absolutly give it a try with your pick.I dont belive in ima.And since I am over average and have done boxing judo and kickboxing for many many years and now mma .I dont see why not.Alot of people want to test theese people but they are the ones with exuses.

OK sykkel if you are serious... Go to chinatown in Honolulu and spend some time looking for the Martial arts clubs (not the big schools) Ask around for the traditional chinese martial arts. And be prepared that they will not be easy to find. Go to these guys and ask for a lesson. The idea of wanting to prove oneself in public is a western concept. The chinese concept is very different. The real masters won't come looking for you, you have to go looking for them....

Y'know.... that doesn't help your case, nor does it help out anyone who is looking for legitimate styles that can do what you (and others) say they can do.

 

Especially with people like

running around...

I don't know why people have associated me with empty force stuff. I don't do that. I have never seen any of that stuff work either. I practice a very practical striking martial art. Listen... Qi work is an integral part of all truly authentic Chinese styles. Some are good, some are bad and within each system, there are good practitioners and bad practioners. any fithting style is only as good as the person using and combined with their commitment. Sloppy, I assume you are saying that there are people looking for a real Internal Art. There is a difference between the commercialized martial arts and the hidden stuff out there. IME, the real masters won't try and prove themselves in public and will rarely teach anyone the real thing.

But, if you are saying this because you are honestly looking for a real effective internal art, then my suggestion is to make to committment to look earnestly for it. That may mean years of traveling and searching. Unlike commercialized MA's it will not come looking for you. When and if you find the real thing, you will know why it is not very well known. BUt, if you make to commitment to search it out and find it, you will. If however, like many Westerners, who want things handed to them, they will have to be satisfied with pay per view octagon...

Who would you recommend, then, for such a match?

Y'know... I don;t like where I have taken this thread... My apologies. I should have known better.