fiveelementtao

I have 30 years of exorcism experience. So, take that for what it's worth to you.

This is what I know works...

Go to whatever spiritual practitioner you trust: priest, shaman, taoist, hindu, buddhist, whatever and get an exorcism immediately. If you don't have a spiritual advisor, then find one you respect that has a tradition of exorcism and follow their advice. Then immediately go to a psychiatrist or psychologist and follow the continued recommendations of both your spiritual advisor, priest whatever and your counselor...

The exorcism ritual is important for your subconscious and if there is in fact an outside entity, then it needs to be addressed. The psychological counseling is equally if not more important because an entity cannot attach itself to you without some participation on your part. Since it is probably on a very deep level beneath your consciousness, then you will need prolonged help uncovering and addressing the underlying root issues.

Alot of people will respond here giving you prayers or visualizations or meditations etc... While they may be very effective tools. IME, at best you will only be covering up the real issues.

If you are serious about this issue and it is in fact real. It is going to take prolonged and consistent attention otherwise, you will only cover it up for a short while and if you do not address the underlying issues, the problem will return. I guarantee that...

Get an exorcism, get a counselor and stick with them especially the counselor...

My only question is: in the beginning of the first video. Why is there no one to catch these people when they fall?

OK... I'm feeling the need to weigh in on this again. I am not a Kunluner, But I have investigated it, I do practice it, have received the transmission and I am independently connected to one of the major lineages that has deeply influenced it. I think that gives me some objectivity to the discussion about the effects. I do not speak for Max or the kunlun lineage. I have not been in contact with Max for years and have not been to any subsequent seminars. So, I do not have a personal agenda to defend or attack anyone. Here is my take...

It is not a black and white "Either - Or" proposition. The actual nature of the energy involved in the spontaneous practice is not being clearly understood in alot of these threads. It does have very different effects on different people and the reason for that lies in the nature of the physical energy released by the practice itself...

Wang Liping explained this phenomenon very clearly in his book. In his book, he illustrates his ability to induce a spontaneous energy release similar to the effects of the spontaneous practice as taught by Jenny and Max. In one of his seminars he induced a spontaneous episode where half of the room went into spontaneous energy release: people were moving spontaneously, laughing crying, gyrating, speaking in tongues etc... He went on to explain the mechanics behind the phenomena.

P. 165 "there are six main lines of inner work in the human body. The plumb line from the top of the head to genital region was termed... 'The Line of Severance'. When people who practice inner work without the guidance of an enlightened master easily produce distortion, it comes out in this line; when they get fired up and become demonic, that too comes out in this line.

and later

from pg 259

"... three hundred students sat cross legged... with Master Wang Liping... leading them along with his power... All of a sudden these three hundred students started swaying uncontrollably... They shook even more intensely some swayed backward and forward. Some tossed their hands out in rapid movements, some beat their chests, some made graceful dance gestures, some made rapid series of gestures with their hands. Like experts at sign language. All of a sudden some started to wail sorrowfully while others to laugh crazily... when they were done, the students clamored to have Master Wang Liping explain what had happened...The first vehicle is called the random array... the power is allowed to flow spontaneously. Wild wailing and laughing, gesticulating and dancing, all sorts of strange behaviour may come out in those affected. The main purpose begind this is for the one doing the empowering to use this format to observe the nature, character, mentality and flaws of the affected individuals. But it does not take a highly advanced individual to produce the random array...

pg 261...Finally Master Wang Liping explained that when spontaneous movements of the body occur during practice, this means ENERGY IS IN FRONT AND SPIRIT IS BEHIND; SPIRIT GOES ALONG WITH ENERGY SO ONE'S BODY HAS NO MASTER. The practitioner should make the self the ruler, turning external movement into internal movement, examining the minute extremely subtle changes within the body in the midst of clear quietude... Gathering medicine is movement. Obtaining Medicine is stillness."

People who practice any spontaneous practice need to know that when they are doing the practice they are taking SPIRIT off of the throne and putting ENERGY in control. As Sifu Wang explains, SPIRIT should be in control. People are going to get into serious trouble if they abdicate complete control of their energy. That will open one's aura to be influenced by any energy or entity in their environment. Many people in the past were pursuing Kunlun as a way to escape their own issues and get high on bliss. I know that when this ruccus first came down, Max (at that time at least) had recognized this and was publicly dissuading people from using Kunlun as a means of escape just for the bliss. I haven't had any connection with Kunlun since that time, so I cannot speak about what is going on now.

But, let's just assume hypothetically for the sake of argument that the naysayers are correct and Max is using this practice as a way to open people up and take their energy or gain influence on them. Just for argument's sake, even if that were true, it would not in any way absolve people of their responsibility to make choices on what they are choosing to be involved with. If people are looking to be controlled or are looking to be saved from the pain in their lives and (just for argument's sake) Max is abusing that for his own reasons, at some level anyone who does this is choosing to do so hoping to be relieved of their pain. As understandable as all that is, it is not an excuse. No one is a victim. While this doesn't absolve Max from any hypothetical responsibility, it also does not relieve anyone of their responsibility either.

Yoda was the first person to publicly (As far as I know of) to come out and complain about demonic attacks as a result of Kunlun. I do not disbelieve him. I believe that the practice opened him up and for whatever reason he either released or attracted negative spiritual energy. But, I also knew Yoda before he started having problems and he chased after this stuff with more abandon than anyone. He was also chasing after "dangerous" power. So, he got what he was looking for and then when it was too much for him, and by exposing his family to his own excesses, he chose not to take any responsibility and blamed Max. Even if Max were responsible for exposing him to a naga lineage or whatever is the current accusation, it DOES NOT RELIEVE THE INDIVIDUAL OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.

I practice the Yi Gong and I have had no negative visitations. But I also practice the demon fighting forms, so any nasty spirit that wants to come my way will get a bloody nose. If someone wants to practice a spontaneous practice, I recommend some type of protection. We are all responsible for protecting ourselves...

In my experience, over the years doing exorcisms and practicing the Demon fighting internal martial forms, I have come to learn that the type of energy released will attract different kinds of entities. Some practices like the demon fighting forms will always repel negative entities. Sometimes, in the beginning, if a student is only pursuing the forms in order to gain power, the negative entities that are repulsed by the energy will at first come to attempt to frighten students away from the practice. But that is because the energy involved creates a vibration that is very unpleasant to demonic entities.

But, in the case of the spontaneous practice, the energy that is released is 100% created and influenced from within the practitioner. If someone has pursued the bliss of the practice out of a need to escape personal unresolved psychological issues, then that energy is blasted into the ethers for all to smell. and any opportunistic spirits out there will come running to partake in the free feast. You can't blame wolves for coming to a fresh kill. That is their nature to do so.

I also believe that the combination of the spontaneous practice and Red Pheonix is extremely powerful. I would recommend that people choosing to combine these two practices be aware that they work synergistically. I do not recommend that anyone with serious emotional or psychological issues use both of these together. I myself am very cautious with red pheonix because not only does the spontaneous practice intensify the effects, but the demon fighting forms increase the power even more, so I am cautious with the combining of all three. Please respect the power of RP. Kids who play with matches can start fires and get burned...

Max has been pretty upfront about the fact that he is an adventurer and enjoys taking risks and that will influence the environment of his classes. One should take note of that before training with him and be very clear of their motives for wanting to train with anyone... and people can make their own judgements about his style of teaching and I have no need to argue for or against his teaching style. I am not seeking to absolve Max of his responsibility, but I do and will always stress that people are first and foremost responsible for the choices they make.

So, what I am saying is that any spontaneous practice has the potential to attract spirits into ones aura. If you want to be safe and you have suspicions then be sure to do some kind of ritual before the practice to invite protectors to guard your aura while you practice... Perhaps take up a regular worship of a deity and make your spontaneous practice a way to merge with your chosen deity.

In all honesty this is very interesting info. And I find it very intriguing, but it doesn't disprove evolution in the slightest.

I truly do not understand what your agenda is. Nothing you have shown conclusively proves or disproves anything. In fact, it only reinforces my belief that there was an even longer period of transformation that some people call "evolution."

Seriously, what is your agenda with this?

Have you looked into....

 

Evidence contradicting the Clovis first theory?

http://www.learnersportal.com/CanadaFP/Origins/theory.html

Yes and??.. So, the previously held Clovis first theory might have some holes in it... How does this refute evolution?

Monte Verde?

http://www.epinions.com/content_3269959812

Since when does an unnamed contributor on epinions.com represent any kind of real science? even so, just because people may or may not have populated the americas according to the latest theory that has ZERO impact on evolution...

Chachapoyas?

http://www.meta-religion.com/Archaeology/Southamerica/mummies_amazon.htm

Again... There is no scientific corroboration. You and I can take any photo we want and write an article without any scientific corroboration or scrutiny and say whatever we want. Do yu believe everything you read if it fits your agenda?

"The Chachapoyas were a tall, fairhaired, light-skinned race that some researchers believe may have come from Europe." There is no statement of any genetic tests to determine this. So, how the hell do I know they were descended from Europeans? And even if that is true... As interesting as that is that doesn't prove or disprove anything except that maybe Europeans were traveling by boat ( or for that matter walking across asia) alot earlier than earlier thought.. But it does not prove or disprove evolution in the slightest...

40,000 year old footprints in Mexico?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7627-footprints-rewrite-history-of-first-americans.html

Again very interesting if true... But doesn't disprove evolution....Just means that Humans got to the americas alot sooner than we thought... So what?

Again it would be nice if all this stuff were in ONE thread....

Fiveelementtao... Relax man...

I am relaxed.

This isn't about resisting or changing beliefs or whatever else you are trying to make this about... it's about forum etiquette.

There is no need for multiple threads every week on the same subject. If you like what he posts and it is just for you and no one else... great. More power to you... Just put it all into one thread and you guys can chat about it all you want..

Once again, Everything, you are feeling the need to defend someone else. I4L is perfectly capable of speaking for himself...

The information in this thread... is very important to spirituality, and is crucial in understanding how to go about being a spiritual being.

In your opinion, but many of us don't share that opinion. So, why force it on us? for our own good?

How do interesting threads, with never before seen topics, loaded with sources and citations, "hurt the board?"

Because this is the wrong venue for your focus. By taking up so much room on the board with infromation that is not pertinent to this forum, you are distracting at the very least and THAT is hurtful to the forum

You apparently don't like them, but you can only speak for yourself, not the board.

True... but they are speaking for the majority of people on this forum

There is nothing worse than seeing a 20 + page thread, many weeks old, being ressurected one more time. It's not user friendly. No new user is going to read it, no lurker is going to read it. It won't draw people to it. Only hardcore forum junkies are going to be interested in that.

If your subject is relevant to them, they will follow your thread and comment on it. look at the phoenix qigong thread, That is very old and people are so interested in it that it continues to stay new. There are some very old threads here that keep being "bumped" everytime someone reads and responds and keeps it fresh. They do so because THEY ARE INTERESTED IN THE SUBJECT and find it relevant to them... If your threads are getting old and no one is responding it is because no one cares about it. Hijacking the entire forum every time you have an update on the SAME issue is just annoying.

But the point here is that there are many many other forums out there that would love to explore and discuss these issues... Christian forums, alien forums, conspiracy forums etc... Why don't you get it that most people here don't care about this? Why not take this information to the people who are going to appreciate it? Why share it with people who have repeatedly told you that it does not interest them? This is more annoying to me than the fact that the issues you raise are not relevant to the forum venue

I don't understand why you need to keep arguing against evolution. It feels like proseletyzing. It reminds me of the Baptist Church I grew up in. I especially don't understand why you want to come on this forum with the continuous stream of anti-evolution threads. Maybe one or two but every week more and more threads about the SAME thing. We got the message a long time ago. You don't believe in evolution. Can we move on to something that we agree on?... perhaps in context with the purpose of this forum which is to discuss spiritual cultivation and NOT religious dogma?

I have been watching your threads for a long time and after seeing you get all the negative responses, I just assumed that in time you would realize that this is the wrong place for projecting your agenda. But, despite all the resisitance you get you keep coming back every week with a new thread about creationism...

So, either you are an obsessed narcissist and don't seem to understand that most of the people on this forum don't give a rat's ass one way or the other about the issue OR... You know that people on this forum will hold an opposing view point to to you and you are purposefully trying to incite controversy and argument with people hoping that by proving your agenda you can convert people and save their souls...

When I was a born again Christian, I was very familiar with this approach. We were trained to go into hostile environments and "Witness" for Jesus by creating controversy in the hopes of being able to disprove other religious viewpoints in the hope that we could convert at least one person.

We justified this with the idea that if one soul was saved, whatever arguments or controversy we created was worth it. You seem to be taking the same approach. So, I strongly suspect you have a religious agenda behind your threads...

So, once and for all please ... just state your religious agenda. Are you a Christian? Are you a creationist? Please just a yes or no.

Before you answer... If in fact you are a Christian, I want to remind you that by definition if you evade the question or falsely deny then you will be (in the belief of your religion) denying Christ... So, please be honest...

If not, then perhaps think about taking your issue to a more relevant forum where people care about the issue...

but these words I write is void of that attention to your earlier texts. Thank you again

I have no idea what that means, but I hear your request to leave you alone and I will honor that. Good luck...

I'm currently very happy, you must understand.

Oh.. Well, then disregard everything I have said... Good luck...

I tried your approach of analyzing how my subconscious effected my life in such profound and deceivingly ways. Just like you analyzing my thoughts. You really encouraged me to go deep into the subconscious, I thank you for that.

 

The thing is, I've already gone trough that and it didn't really have a lasting effect. It left me with a feeling of awe to the power of subconscious and hopelessness. Knowing the cause of disharmony doesn't really solve it?

Well, I don't know what you mean by you've "already gone through it" that can mean almost anything from "I read a few books" to "I spent 10 years in therapy" If you had really gone through it, you would not still be struggling with the problem. It is natural to want to minimize the problem. Of course there weren't any lasting effects. It has taken you your whole life to create these subconscious patterns and defense mechanisms. They aren't going to disappear after a few days or even months of analysis. This stuff doesn't go away easily or immediately. Analyzing the subconscious is only the first step. Then comes the years and years of continuing to work through the emotional pain of unraveling the pain we cause ourselves....

One important thing I wish to share with you from my experience working through similar issues is that it won't go away anytime soon. It will take years and years of thorough and diligent work, perhaps the rest of your life and IME, you will need objective help from a counselor or a therapist. You are not qualified to treat yourself. I myself have been in some form of therapy for over 30 years. I have no intention to stop. I see a counselor twice a month. The new age idea that we can investigate a spiritual path or read some books or chant a mantra and all are problems vanish is not a traditional spiritual understanding. The process of enlightenment takes years and years of diligent practice with the help of others...

In all seriousness.. First. Go to a church or temple or whatever and get an exorcism and then go straight to a psychiatrist. The only way to overcome this is to understand how you have attracted this to yourself and take responsibility. That's all I will say to you.

Good luck....

In this excersize I was completely comfortable with my desires. I was even possesed by them. So excites, adding all the features to this laptop as if I'm realy going to get it. Then at the end, I always get this feeling that I do not deserve it... I can't take away this feeling, don't know how.

I understand this feeling. I had to seek help from a counselor to find some practical ways through it. You probably won't be able to work through it alone...

I was born without an identity

Are you sure you were born without one or was it driven out of you? We all have identities even if that identity is to portray someone without an identity...

Today I do have an ego, but I can't find peace with it. That why I felt the struggle at the end of eventually giving my ego such a hige gift.

I understand. That sounds very painful. It's OK to have good things. I repeat my earlier recommendation to seek out the best things you want and meditate on the resultant discomfort. You are worth it...

Good luck...

Mike

I don't know much about the original Sikhs that this type of "sound and light" practice began with, but their progeny appear to be rather strange:

 

Sri Darwin Gross

 

Sri Gary Olsen

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai ("God's Direct Contact")

The Sikhs have their roots in Vedic and Hindu beliefs. The Sikh belief of the Shabda or primal divine sound is just an extension of the Vedic belief that Divine sound is what creates and maintains the Universe. Twitchell just apporpriated the idea and used it for his own purposes...

I just wanted to add my opinion

 

I just wanted to say that even though he may be wrong, my desire to get happiness from the inside is huge and it is what lead me to Tao te Ching. So he hit something deep within me there with some random guess, or whatever ge did.

First I don't think nor have I said that anybody is "right" or "wrong." (winks at Ambrose)

I support and share your desire to get happiness from the inside. My intent was to explore with you the possibility that you might have been unconsciously projecting and if so, how that was actually inhibiting your deep desire to get happiness from inside yourself... It has nothing to with who is "right" or "wrong" I see it as a process of discovery. When I become aware of patterns that are not serving me, it might be uncomfortable, but it is an opportunity to make my life better. I try not to judge myself as being right or wrong

So he hit something deep within me there with some random guess

Well, I don't think it was random... I think Ambrose very likely shares the same projection as you, which is why I believe he stepped in to defend you. ( I won't know for sure because he hasn't directly responded to my question to him) And I think this is why you felt such a deep bond with him. He connected with you on an unconscious level. I think you felt a deep bond because you both felt you were protecting yourselves from a percieved threat on your unconscious projection. I believe this gave you a feeling strength by not being alone..

However, most often it is the most colorful of us that make ourselves wrong by pushing for dominance. That has to be just as bad if not equal to making people wrong, is it not?

So, Ambrose... How can anyone make anyone else "wrong" unless they choose to accept that judgement? When someone challenges your conclusions are they "bad" people? That sounds very judgemental to me when what you seem to be saying is that people should not be judgemental... Do you see the irony in that statement?

IME, when I want explore someone's thinking process with them, because I sense unconscious conflict, if I am percieved as threatening their unconscious defense mechanisms, one of the first defenses I hear either directly or passive aggressively) is that I am trying to "make them wrong" It makes it difficult to have objective discussions when the main goal is just to defend being "right" or "wrong" or when people feel that any inquiry into their thinking is somehow a judgement on their spirituality.

This is why I don't believe in any idea of enlightenment. Because people get very touchy. I know that I am very flawed. So, if someone is able to approach me directly without defensiveness, aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness, ( or fake spirituality) I appreciate the opportunity to evaluate my behaviour. If they are able to bring something to my attention, then I am grateful. If I disagree, that's OK too... I think If we don't try and hold on to our own state of "enlightenment" and just accept that we are all unconscious and "unenlightened" in many ways, then it becomes easier to engage in honest direct discussions with each other.

So, Everything, I appreciate your generosity and bravery in engaging directly with me with your differing viewpoints and not in the usual forum tactic of anonymous defensive passive aggressive judgements... I think bravery, directness and honesty is a great way to make this forum a better place to learn and grow from one another... So, thanks for engaging with me...

Mike

Man, when I feel cognitive dissonance I just know I'm wrong... So go ahead.

 

This is my current thought. I want a laptop for everyone so that mine doesn't get stolen. But that assumes in a way that there shall be people who will want a 10000 laptop... So it is like backward rationalization.

 

I'm willing to accept that alot of things out there are projections of mine. The thing I'm curious about: Do you recommend that I do not project my desires onto others? Why not?

First, we all project onto others. It is a natural human defense mechanism. Nothing wrong with being human... ( Note: when I use the word "selfish" in this post. I do not mean it in a negative way. Part of what I want to convey is that there is nothing wrong with selfish desires. Self-judgement however is very destructive. So, my intent is to shed light on the destructiveness of self-judgement.)

Yes, I do recommend that you not project onto others, but more important is to know why you are projecting onto others... Once you know the source of your projection, you won't want to project.

Projection is usually an unconscious process meaning that one is not aware that they are doing it. Projection has it's roots in some kind of selfishness or fear. Most of us feel guilty when we have these kinds of feelings so our brains step in and convince us we are being unselfish so that we will feel justified in our projections. The reason not to project is because it disconnects us from others, is ultimately destructive to others and our own happiness.

You explained pretty clearly and bravely here that what you really want is not to have your laptop stolen from others who don't have one and may want to take yours out of jealousy. So, by giving everyone a laptop like yours, then no one will steal yours from you. Perfectly logical. But that is a very different motive than wanting to help the world through the symbology of giving everyone a laptop..

So, based on the information I read here from you,

Your first feeling was desire for your fantasy laptop, (nothing wrong there)

then you felt fearful that others were going to be jealous and steal it from you,

so then you decided to give everyone else the same laptop that way no one could steal it from you.

this made you feel guilty and selfish so THEN

your brain stepped in and created the "spiritually acceptable" false motive of wanting to share with everyone...

This indicates that you may feel unworthy to have nice material things. Hence the guilt.... IMO, the projection process started when you started feeling self-judgement about having your laptop. You judged yourself as being selfish and unspiritual, since your initial selfish desire for the laptop was stronger than your subsequent desire to abandon the laptop. This caused a moral conflict in you and then your brain stepped in and justified the desire by making up the story of wanting to help everyone. That sounded "spiritual" to your psyche, so you adopted the new justification of wanting to help others before yourself... This whole process happened in a nano-second.

So, the impetus is fear not generosity. But the mind is a powerful thing that does things like convince us we are being altruistic when we are really trying to protect our desires. The key (IMO) is being OK with our desires, then the other stuff won't happen.

I think a great meditation is to meditate on why you feel uncomfortable being the only person with your fantasy laptop.

A focal point for me here is allowing yourself to enjoy material things. Allowing yourself the right to have nice things and enjoy them by yourself is (IMO) a sign of enlightenment. It is a sign that you feel you are worthy to exist in this world. It is a sign that you trust the Unverse to take of everyone else. It's not your responsibility to fix anyone else before you can have your own experiences...

My father has been into Eckankar for a couple years now. He has never forced anything upon me or tried to teach me anything of it. Today he asked me if I wanted to go to a seminar with him next weekend. I know it will make him happy if I tag along but I have some doubts. I know Eckankar is mainly about soul travel and astral projection and what not. To be honest, I'm kind of scared. All that astral projection stuff never really made sense to me and I don't want were I'm at right now to get messsed up. I however know it's good to be open to things so I will still go but I would like to know if any bums know anything about this spiritual path, Eckankar. Thanks a lot everyone (:

 

 

BTW thank you all for replying to my last post, I greatly appreciate it and took all of your views into consideration. I know everything will turn out the way it should, thank you (:

It's a cult. Paul twitchell stole some things from Sikh mysticism and repackaged it with a completely false history.

the name "Eckankar" comes directly from the Sikh mystic mantra "Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru"

The Sikh mysticism it came from is very cool, but the eckankar version is very different. I would be very cautious...

Google a search on eckankar cult and you will find alot of info about people who have been severely damaged by the cultic aspects of the religion. link

@ Ambrose... Where then do you believe he is trying to get his happiness?

You might say outside or inside. I'm trying to make the the outside internal. So that everything becomes internal, and there is no more external. The guy who slaps me in my face is a projection of mine. Thats kinda an example of the concept.

 

You might say its not a projection of mine, but when you consider that you can choose not to become angry at him/her? Then suddenly you might not view thar reality in the same way, trough hate and darkness. You can also view this reality trough kindness and light. You might say that the guy touched you and that you feel priviliged to have your cheeck strengthened by this men. But you do not loose faith in his light. This strength of faith in light will illuminate darkness. Darkness cannot overcome the light.

 

That is how I try to translate everything into intetnal to hint at the Tao. But I can never truely name it...

Everything... let Ambrose answer for himself. I was asking him because I wanted to hear his interpretation of your post. Taking responsibility for him and interpreting for him doesn't help me understand HIS perspective...

I said that I would only want the laptop if the whole world could have one. Buyig the whole world a laptop is symbolic, like a goal to be achieved. As my serving to humanity in order to improve all of humanity

This is classic projection - wanting to give others what you want for yourself. They may not want what you want... What if people reject your gift? Will you then be unable to enjoy it by yourself?

I get it that the thought of sharing with others what you want makes you feel good. BUT... will that action make others feel good? Are you doing it to make make others feel better or to make yourself feel better?

Why must other people feel good before you can feel good?

How did I project my desires unto others?

Are you asking me this question because you want to know how you may be projecting onto others? I think it is a valuable discussion. But, if not, let me know... I don't want to do the typical forum dance of "Yes it is - No it isn't" Smiley face etc...

Maybe it is that I might be able to tune in on what Everything is saying...

 

Maybe its the same vibration

 

I am somewhat confident that Everything is not talking about getting gratification or happiness dependant upon others.

@ Ambrose... Where then do you believe he is trying to get his happiness?

It bothered me because other people could not enjoy the same thing, it bothered me because I could not share this object with others, it bothered me that other people would want my laptop if I bought it for my self...

 

Conclusion? If I had infinite money, I would never stop buying the whole world this 10,000 dollar laptop untill everyone had one. Only then would I buy myself this laptop. Only then... I have to put my self last, else my heart wont be at peace.

It seems that the desire for spiritual is the only real desire that can be fullfilled. Trough friendship and sharing. The toys don't mean shit when it is not shared and shit means everything when it is shared.

 

Don't you guys feel the same way?

No.

Here's something to consider: your illusion is not based on the desire for material things. Your illusion is that other people are being deprived and need someone else to fulfill their fantasies... This isn't a criticsm. I think we all suffer from this illusion on some level..

Bear with me

You claimed that in your fantasy of infinite money that what bothered you was not being able to share your fantasy laptop with everyone. Why would giving to others your fantasy make you feel better about having what you want?

What is the perceived gain you would get from being able to give everyone your laptop? Love? acceptance? The right to enjoy your fantasy?

I wouldn't want your laptop. I have my own fantasy objects. I am sure there are many others that would not want your fantasy laptop either.

So, if you were going around the world fulfilling your fantasy of sharing your dream laptop with everyone there would be alot of people who would not want it. There are many people who would not want or need anything from you at all...

But the idea of sharing your fantasy goodies makes you feel better and gives you permission to enjoy them yourself. So, the illusion is in projecting your desires and perceived needs on other people.

Another illusion is that you feel guilty when you get the material things you want. That somehow if you are given what you really want that simply by getting that item you are stealing from someone else. So, by giving everyone else your fantasy laptop, you are not really giving to them out of a selfless desire to give, but to give yourself permission to enjoy the laptop. Your desire to give is based in guilt, not true charity...

The illusion is that by sharing your fantasy with others that you are helping them...

But another way to look at it is that by you freely giving to others what you yourself want would be to deny others the privelige of getting it for themselves.

The real illusion that I hear in your post is: that you believe that we are all being deprived of good things.

Again, this isn't a criticism. I think we all share this illusion in some form or other.

So, why not just work for your fantasy laptop and be the only person in the world with that amazing laptop? You are not depriving anyone else of attaining their own fantasies and you are not a bad person for being the only person in the world to have that really cool laptop. It is not "unspiritual" to enjoy your fantasies... Any feelings of discomfort that you have after you get your laptop would be excellent fodder to meditate about your percpeptions of yourself in comparison to others... It would be a great way to meditate about our boundaries and the how the universe treats us as individuals as well as a community...

Something to consider...

sheesh this ain't a sex/immortality/enlightenment thread

According to your OP it is... This thread is your response to people perceiving you as a mysoginist from another thread. At least that is what you said. It should have been posted in that thread... Look, just on the first page of the general discussion forum you have three threads dealing with these same issues.

"True Love can only exist without Lust (For Enlightenment)"

Are BDSM insults towards males tolerated yet BDSM remarks towards females are a big no-no?

The Hypocrisy of Humanity's Double Standards

2nd page...OMG! Who are you ronnietsu mahalingam al-saalami Icon?

they are all related to sex, marriage, kids etc... Its' the same stuff dude...

It is just simple courtesy to the rest of the forum that instead of creating a NEW thread everytime you want to talk about this same stuff. Just put it into one of your old threads.

Tell me... If it can cause ilness... Can it also cause cures of equal proportions?

Sure, if you know what you're doing.

Since we are talking about healing...Can scalpels and medicines cause more injury and illness if used without proper knowledge and training? Yup.

Please help me to understand this fully, because I need to know it.

You don't need to know it. If you want to understand it fully, then I echo what others have said which is to make the effort to find a qualified instructor and study with them.

This MCO thing is blown way out of proportion. IME, if you learn an energy form like Tai Chi or Ba Gua, just by learning the correct form and breathing, you will automatically open and stimulate the MCO. MCO by itself doesn't do much of anything especially if one doesn't know what to do with it if they are lucky enough to open it correctly. People talk about MCO like it is some magical key to enlightenment or something. It is just the natural flow of energy once it has been opened. Buying running shoes doesn't make one a champion runner unless you use the shoes to train and learn how to run marathons. MCO doesn;t do much unless you use other practices to run energy through the meridians...

What alot of people may not understand is that practices like MCO are meant to be practiced along with other practices that balance and strengthen them. Doing stuff out of a book by yourself out of context will not get you very far. It's like trying to drive a car without gas. You can maybe push it along but you won't get very far for the amount of effort you put into it.

If you really feel that you need to learn this fully, then make the effort to find a live teacher who can teach you this stuff in person... Learn an energy form like tai chi and stop trying to put stuff into your brain. IME, It is totally unnecessary.

Good luck with your search.

Hey Tulku and mods... Here's a suggestion:

Why doesn't Tulku put all of these similarly associated sex/immortality/enlightenment topics in ONE thread please.

Tulku... I got it already. I got it 7,000 posts ago.

Do you really think saying the same thing, multiple times, every day in different threads is going to change anyone's mind?

You're taking up the whole forum with this stuff. If you want to obsess on this please keep it in one thread until you can come up with a significantly different topic... Sheesh!