fiveelementtao

For those interested and there are a few... Mak Tin Si now has a forum!!

 

www.daoismworld.com

 

I want to thank Master Mak Tin Si for his post here and for setting up a new forum. Thanks also to my man Yoda who may have been the catalyst for this!

 

Peace and good training to you all.....

 

(If this comes out funny sorry as I am posting from a Blackberry and can just about see the whole screen!)

good for him! I'm glad he has a place to share his knowledge. I will have to check it out! ( I mean that sincerely)

So my question which has evolved from this pondering is - to 5elTao, primarily, whose ideas these are - :

 

what is the difference between 'burning through karma' ( kundalini) and 'seeking release from karma' ( taoist work)... ?

 

Is that answerable?

 

I am most interested indeed to know what you think. Not just scratching my arse, here.

 

Good question Cat... you're making me think here and my understandings are changing as I try to answer.... I will answer from what I know which is spirit fighting. In the art that I was taught, in order for the Spirit Fighting energy to flow, I need to see my opponent as not having any power or substance. If I see him as having solidity or power, I will be vulnerable to his attacks and my energy will not cut through him. If however, I do not give him any power, the spirit fighting energy will slice through his aura and physical defenses. It all starts with mindset. I think the same is true with karma. In kundalini yoga, we are taught that our karma has weighed us down and has to be burned off in order to be released. In tao, we hear alot about how we can choose our own fate. So, If we don't wrestle with our karma, we are less likely to struggle with it. It's not a question of ignoring it, I think it is a question of just simply choosing to transform ourselves energetically. Instead of wrestling with our karma, we simply choose to transform it.

 

The Buddha (who was operating from and Indian energy system standpoint) died an old, sick man. BUT he had burned through all his karma. Taoist masters are said to transform their energy and bodies so they can live forever or transport themselves bodily into the next dimension. The goals of Yogic and Toaist uses of energy are completely different. But in our modern, micro-wave new agey sweeping generalizations of energy work, we have blended everything together and many things have lost their original meanings and contexts.

 

Kundalini is our karma. The state we achieve after burning through karma is one of awareness and compassion. That is why it is seen as the highest energy. Not because of it's physical power but because to be free of illusion and attachment, to be full of awareness and compassion is the best our souls can achieve. That is why it is seen as the highest energy. It isn't. Having alot of kundalini isn't necessarily good. It means you have alot of karmic crud burning up and releasing alot energy. The highest state is to be FREE of kundalini. I guess I am now understanding sean's quote now and I agree. Once karma has been burned through, we are free and our Chi can flow unhindered at it's highest level.

 

When people have a powerful energy experience from Kundalini moving, it is because when karma is burned through it releases ALOT of energy that was previously being used to store karma. When we let it go, we are able to use that energy freely. So, that is why people have either blissful of frightening experiences when kundalini moves. Because kundalini never moves without karma being burned. So, many times when karma is burned people feel alot of energy and make the mistake of attributing the power to kundalini. The power is only a side effect of karma being released. It is possible for people to have kundalini move and not have a powerful energetic experience. So, in a way, if we have a powerful energy experience due to kundalini, it may only mean that we have more crap to burn through. It is the same with kunlun. Many times the people who have the strongest experience with kunlun are the people who have the most blockages.

 

Most of us hear about kundalini out of context and we take the surface understanding of what kundalini is and try to make it fit into taoism because we want to have the "Best" energy. Taoism does not deal with karma directly like Hindu or buddhist systems do. So, taoist systems are not designed to deal with karma. We only deal with kundalini if we want to address karma. If Karma is not our focus, there is no need to awaken kundalini.

 

This would explain partly why doing kundalini yoga and kunlun don't mix. The two energy systems were not designed to work together. They are seeking to accomplish two different things.

This brought up the question for me "Is Kundalini a particular energy?"

 

Maybe it's just that I am so content to view the WHOLE spectrum of energy in the terms Jing-Qi-Shen. I want to fit Kundalini (and Kunlun for that matter) into this spectrum. Often it seems that Kundalini is discussed as if it were something entirely other than a powerful Qi manifestation. The model of seeing Kundalini as a core obstacle/blockage to be opened up just FITS better in the cosmology as I understand it.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Craig

 

Hi Craig, Yes, kundalini, in my experience, is a specific energy. I respect the article that Sean posted, but I disagree with it as does most tantric yogis. I agree with the end result which is that when kundalini has arisen, it will disintegrate the blockages up through the chakras. But, in my experience it is a very definite, specific type of energy. Kundalini is about burning through karma. Nothing else. This is what most people do not realize about kundalini. Kundalini is highly overrated as an energy. It is alot of hard work and not much fun. Tao is much faster and more fun.

 

In my experience, Taoist energy systems are SO different than yogic. Kundalini Yoga (which is not the same as your average Hatha Yoga) is a completely different method of energy enhancement than Tao. In my experience, Kundalini is not Kunlun or Jing or Chi or Shen. It is definitely in the spine and it is much more difficult to awaken than most people think. Chi likes to flow and will flow very quickly if asked. Kundalini is very resistant and takes alot of work to get it to move. And it falls back down very quickly. So, to make any real progress with kundalini takes alot of discipline for many years. That is why mantra meditation and yoga have very strict rules. Because if you miss practice or screw up, kundalini falls back down and you have to start all over again. In my opinion if I were to try and fit Kunlun and other downward flowing energy into yogic terms. Kunlun is the Shiva power. Y The effects of Kunlun and Mao Shan meditations are (IMHO) Shiva power. Kundalini is manifested earthly incarnated human experience. She is your Karma. In order to evolve she has to forget her attachment to personality and incarnated existence to make any progress. There is a definite progression with Kundalini as she moves through the chakras. At first, she ONLY moves up. If someone is saying that kundalini moves all over etc... it is not kundalini or they are experiencing the nerves REACTING to kundalini. She only moves up the spine and then back down after unifying with Shiva in the crown. When she moves through a specific chakra, the person has to learn the lessons of that chakra before She will move up to the next chakra.

 

For me, I prefer the Shiva path of Tao, descending into reality rather than struggling to ascend.

Bottom line, for me, is that kundalini is not part of the Taoist equation. And I prefer it that way. Kundalini is alot of hard work burning through karma. In tao, we don't spend all that time burning through karma. We seek release from Karma. Specifically for you and I in the downward path, instead of trying to rise up to heaven by burning through our karma, we are simply calling down Shiva to earth. It's alot faster and avoids all that karma burning.. That is why I abandonded kundalini yoga for Tao.

You big tease!

So does the downwards flowing kundalini also originate in the base of the spine? (or the crown?)

 

I realise you're trying to keep the theorising to a minimum and experience to a maximum! It just makes me feel less lonely knowing that someone has had experience in what I'm just beginning to discover in myself.

 

Thanks

 

 

Kundalini flows from the Root chakra UP first. After reaching the crown, it then flows downward back to the root chakra. Kundalini by definition always starts at the Root chakra. If the energy is starting somewhere else it is not kundalini.

It takes many years for kundalini to flow through the chakras. So, if someone is having a quick energy experience, it is probably not kundalini. It should be noted that Yogic energy systems are VERY different than taoist systems.

There are inconsistencies with yoga that do not work in taoist systems.

Kundalini in yoga is categorized as Shakti (feminine power). Yet it is VERY hot. It is always referred to as Fire. In Tao, Fire is always Yang. If someone is experiencing a cool energy, it is not Kundalini

 

Kundalini is not just any power. It is the spiritual gravitational force of the human personality. Enlightenment in Yoga is when this power of Personality (kundalini) moves up through the chakras and evolves.

 

I think what has happened is that in Yoga, kundalini is viewed as the highest form of energy so people in other systems who do not understand exactly what kundalini is want to use a term which gives their experience the highest reputation. So, we have alot of people ascribing the word kundalini to a powerful energy experience.

In my experience, Kundalini is not part of the taoist equation. and for those who want to make it part of the taoist equation, they end up making up their own definitions of it in order to fit in their experience...

 

I am a Yogi : ).

 

As I said before becareful with what is "Defined" in books its not always what it really is in experience.

 

I know many who claim to be Yogis cause the have read the pradipika or a tantra or a sutra, or cause they are members of an Advanced Yogic website mean while have never really experienced anything out side of the volumes of theory they have ingested. Reading about Yoga and memorizing terms DOES not make you a Yogi. Nor will bring you closer to true Yoga. Also folks that are FLEXIBLE are not always Yogis either. Otherwise every circus gymnast would be a Sage. There is a fine line between what is and what isn't. The real Juice is in very subtle practices that at 1st glance would not be "considered" yoga. The Real Yogi is the one that can do 24/7 and generate tons of juice for many positive things (healing, Meditation, Enlightenment, helping others etc) with out needing a cave a yoga mat an Ashatanga DVD or book. I do not mean this as an attack towards you. Its just a general statement that is True. The real Yogas are hidden. The real Yogis are not what most would expect as a Yogi.

 

Again do not get stuck on terms just experience.

 

I really do not care how you categorize etc. I do however care that if folks are sincere in learning about Kundalini that they learn properly cause it can "fuck you up" if you are not careful just like any energy system that works on a high caliber.

 

Peace to you and do not take what i have said as offense.

God Bless you : )

 

Santiago

Yes, technically, any person using energy to achieve Yoga (union) is a yogi.

Dude, you are making alot of assumptions about me. You know very little of my experience. In terms of yoga, You do not know where I have learned or how I have learned or from whom. You also know nothing of what I have experienced. I have not made any judgements on you, your experience or your practice. I am simply stating that at times you are using Indian yogic terms in a taoist context inaccurately. That is all. I am done with this as it is getting ridiculous...

Its not an attack on you persay but since the "Shamanic" methods became "Institutionalized" they lost a lot of their roots and power.

I disagree with you. You are only "Categorizing" one Shakti - Earth's Shakti. This is a GREAT Shakti Power indeed but not the "End" of Kundalini awakening. As Far as I am concerned and as many who have experienced Kundalini that is when you really start your actual training.

 

Santiago,

You're not reading my posts thoroughly or objectively. Once again, you have taken my observations on your use of the word Kundalini as an attack against your practice and you. I am saying that I think your practice results in the raising of kundalini. so, can we get rid of the defensiveness? You are OK. You're practice is OK. Got it? But, according to the original use of the terms in kundalini yoga, you are simply using these terms incorrectly and in the wrong order. However, Just because you are using the term incorrectly doesn't reflect on your practice or you.

 

So, attacking my experience and attempting to compare it to yours doesn't change the original use of these yogic terms. These terms are very specific and have very specific meanings in their original systems. These are not my personal definitions. These are the definitions of the terms invented by yogis thousands of years ago. I am not creating these definitions. Nor am I trying to use them to fit into my personal agenda. You can check with any Yogi and they will tell you the same thing...

 

But, since it seems that you have an emotional attachment to the way these words are used in your system, I will probably not be able to have a reasonable, objective conversation with you about this, so I will let it go. As does happen with language, the meanings of words change to fit the culture or time. It seems that Shakti and Kundalini are in the process of changing to fit the definitions of modern, non-yogic systems. Ultimately it doesn't matter what terms you use or how you use them. So, If your system works, that's all that matters. Your does,... so, enjoy.

Santiago, I have no criticism of your system. It seems like a very good taoist energy system. So, first let me say that if you are doing Kan and Li practices effectively, the Kundalini shakti in the spinal column will be raised. If this is the case then you can correctly call it KAP. I agree with almost everything you have said. My post had nothing to do with analyzing or criticizing the effectiveness of KAP. If it works, then great. But, if someone inaccurately uses the term "Kundalini" in a taoist context, I will point it out.

But Thanks to TCM and "Institutionalized" methodology, you probably lost the "ACCURATE"

I don't know what the attempted attack is for, I'm not TCM....

I do know something of Yoga and yogic terms in energy systems. You are using some yogic terms incorrectly and applying them to taoist systems.(It's OK to apply them to taoist systems, but as a former tantric yogi, I prefer to see the yogic terms used accurately.)

 

The key is Awareness and how to actually start with your "own" (Lesser Kan & Li) & then gradually move to the Mother/Father's Earth & Heaven's Kundalini (Greater Kan Li).

 

Kan and Li are not kundalini. This is a good example of the inaccurate use of the word "Kundalini". In yoga, There are two major types of Prana. Prana and Apana. Kan (water) is Apana (descending Yin Chi) and Li (fire) is Prana (ascending Yang Chi) Kundalini is awakened as the RESULT of the mixing of Prana (Li) and Apana (Kan) in the navel chakra (dan tien). That is when kundalini shakti is awakened and rises up Sushumna in the spinal column. This process is similar to Kan and Li in taoist systems. The yogis go about it somewhat differently but the end result is similar. So, if that is your understanding, we are in total agreement there... There is no Outward "heavenly" kundalini. There is only the kundalini in the spine and it is 100% earthly, feminine Shakti power (yin). The Heavenly is Shiva (yang). Shakti is earth (yin). Heaven is Shiva (yang). Kundalini rises to reunite with Shiva in the Crown Chakra. This is the problem when people try to use Yogic energetic terminology to Taoist systems. There are alot of similarites between Yoga and Taoism, but there are also alot of differences between the two energy systems. It is a romantic, comforting idea to postulate that Taoism came from Ancient yoga. But the evidence indicates that Yoga and Tao evolved separately.

 

In my humble opinion Chi Kung was Part of "Kundalini training" in the ancient days.

Chi Kung still IS part of Kundalini work. All yoga is Chi Kung. Chi Kung means "Breath, Energy or Spirit Work" Chi is prana. In yoga, we call Chi Kung "pranayama". which has a similar meaning to Chi Kung. So, by definition any work with breath, movement and prana is Chi Kung.

 

Anyhow proof is in the pudding & actual occurrences in the training.

I agree. And it sounds like your system is a proven energy system. No need to defend your system. I'm not attacking it the validity of your system. I am only pointing out your inaccurate use of Yogic terminology.

I still am interested in in the KAP path, because I want to see some more progress. I presume it will help me more in understanding.

I don't know a whole lot about KAP. But, based on all the positive testimonials I've read on this site, it seems like a very good discipline.

 

Chi, Kundalini, Kunlun -> the thing which connects them together is not wasting semen during orgasms in the sex act.

It doesn't necessarily "connect them together." It is something they all have in common. You are right about witholding semen in the beginning. In both Taoist and Yogic energetic practices it is a good idea to remain celibate (No ejaculation) for one hundred days. After a while, you can enjoy sex. But, being able to transform semen into the higher centers will aid in energy cultivation. But it is best to have a teacher to guide you through this process safely.

Fiveelement thanks for your extensive advices, but I have a question. What do you think enlightment is?

IMHO, enlightenment is the ability to go through the journey of life, while being aware of all your feelings and desires. all the pain and joy. embracing everything that life gives you and be able to act and react to all circumstances from a place of awareness, understanding and compassion. Basically, IMHO, there is nothing more profound than the Golden Rule. "Treat others as yourself." In my experience, energy will not guarantee this. Little old ladies with no chi or kundalini are still able to be kind and helpful and understand their feelings and take appropriate action... and Yogic and Taoist masters that can levitate and create magnificent states of bliss for themselves and others can still be emotionally immature, selfish and cruel. For me, bottom line is whether or not, you can act from a place of love...

Are you doing a special path? Are you cultivating a kind of energy?

 

I spent some years practicing Kundalini Yoga, tantric (not sexual) Yoga, Sanskrit mantra meditation.

 

I have also been practicing Shang Ch'ing Taoist internal martial arts and nei kung for about 16 years. I am in the same Shang Ch'ing taoist lineage as Max (we learned from different teachers). Max has incorporated a couple other taoist lineage practices into his kunlun but it is mostly from the Shang Ch'ing school.

 

I have found that kundalini and Shang Ch'ing energies do not work well together. So, I stopped all Kundalini exercises.

 

I am now focusing almost exclusively on Shang Ch'ing Taoist practices combined with two Wu Tang exercises.

 

I have tested a few different energy disciplines. I have chosen a set of energy disciplines that work very well for me. That is why I say there is no "Best" path. We are all different and have different purposes in life and have different needs. I have found what works best for me and helps be a happier person. But, I also understand what it is. Energy is only a tool. When my life is over, I will be a naked soul in front of the Infinite Universe. I will only have my awareness based on the actions and observations from this earthly life. Enlightenment, IMHO is not a destination but a journey. There is no finish line. After this life, if I am lucky enough to move into a "higher" dimension, I will still have to learn and grow. I guess for me, enlightenment is growth...

Gopi Krishna defines kundalini energy as "evolutionary energy." Which is similar to the concept of "gong," as in, e.g., qi gong, far as I can tell. Kundalini or qi gong, we're facilitating our evolution by means of qi cultivation.

This is true but only in a general sense. Gopi Krishna's definition is a generalized definition of Kundalini. It is true that Kundalini and Chi are both Energy. Both Chi and kundalini facilitate evolution. But they are not the same energy.

In Yoga, there are two types of general energies. Kundalini and Prana. But yogis do not interchange these names. When they want to talk about Chi they use the word Prana, when they want to talk about kundalini, they use the word Kundalini. They are very specific terms and are not interchangeable. Becuase awakening kundalini is seen as the highest energy to be awakened, it is understandable that people who are in other systems want a word to define the highest energy possible, so they slap the word Kundalini on it. Although I understand the desired meaning in that context, it is an inaccurate definition of the word. In Yoga, if someone means Prana , they do not say kundalini. However in today's new age definitions people have lumped all energy as Kundalini.

 

All energetic work stimulates the movement of Chi (prana). But not all energetic work directly stimulates kundalini. Kundalini is an energy that is coiled at the base of the spine and is directly related to psychological evolution. Chi is the bio energy of life. So, it is possible that someone can have alot of Chi energy built up and Kundalini will still be unawakened. So, many people do breathing or Chi kung and feel energy move up their spine or feel heat in their hands and assume they have awakened Kundalini. But, they are simply mistaking the signs of Chi as Kundalini awakening.

 

I have worked extensively with both Indian and taoist arts. and in my experience, neither kundalini or Chi will bring enlightenment. They can be helpful, but people with awakened kundalini can still be crazy and cruel as can Taoist masters...

 

So, I do not subscribe to the notion that awakened Kundalini means enlightenment. It is just another energy.

 

I just now read the KAP site, so I have a better understanding of what KAP is. It seems to me based on what little I read, that in KAP they are simply interchanging the word Kundalini with Chi. I have no issue with people calling Chi whatever name they want. But it is not accurate.

 

So, I agree that both Prana and kundalini are energies that can aid in personal evolution. But they are not the same thing.

I am not doing them for fun. I want to know what the ultimate reality is. I am confused.

Enlightment must be a state where you know that ultimate reality...

 

Put on the brakes! Wanting to know the "ultimate reality" is a huge red flag. You already are in ultimate reality. It would be best not to do anything until you gain some comfortability with yourself! Kunlun, kundalini yoga, or any other spiritual discipline is JUST A TOOL. There is no such discipline that will lead you to ultimate reality. You are already a part of ultimate reality. If you go into any discipline looking for "ultimate reality" you will be either very disappointed or easily deceived.

 

Kundalini is sex energy.

 

This is not accurate. Kundalini is NOT sex energy. I would suggest more study about different energy paths. Each energy, whether it is kundalini or Chi or what have you have very different vibrations and achieve different results. If you mix certain energies, it can be harmful. If you are confused... take your time. there is no timer. If you feel like you need to rush to make a decision on which path to take, this indicates a desperation that is unhealthy.

 

Take your time and maybe take a path for now which does not involve a powerful energy experience. These energy paths are not a super happy pill. They are serious business. I have seen alot of people with emotional issues seek to use energy paths as a way to run away from their personal issues and it only made them nuts. and eventually when reality kicked back in (because it will) they were much worse off than before... With powerful energy paths it is extremely important that one already have the tools to handle their emotions. Because powerful energy exercises can increase emotional states. If you are running from emotions they will be brought to the surface much faster....So, take your time... investigate why you feel the need to find ultimate reality so quickly. Get comfortable with yourself first, then choose a pathway based on a place of stability.... And in your case, I strongly suggest a path where you can have access to a teacher in your area who can guide you.

masters shmasters.. It's all relative... Be where you are...

Many of you should be lucky MTS is posting here at all. He is not hiding anything

and just providing information about the TAO. The chinese culture runs

deep and rarely is information given to westerners. I'm not saying other

cultures are not deep, but history has erased much of the other civilizations

knowledge. Really, all you have worth studying is the TAO.

 

Be grateful for his posts and information. Whether you choose to enroll

as a student of his is your choice, but let him write. I would agree to

minimum of 1 posts per day.

 

Nobody is denying him anything! He has his own personal practice folder that he can post to a hundred times a day of he wants to. Nobody is banning him. He has been asked numerous times to simply put his multiple daily posts into a few folders instead single new topics. He can still be #1 poster if he wants, We are simply asking him to MAKE AN EFFORT to understand how to best use this forum. We are not asking anything from him that is not expected of anyone else. If he is going to run away from this forum and disappear simply because he has been asked to behave in a cooperative fashion, then that speaks volumes about his taoism.

For me the issue isn't about traditional versus modern eclectic. He can be as dogmatic as he wants. It's the lack of understanding about forum etiquette. He either doesn't understand or doesn't care or (most likely) doesn't care to understand. If he used his practice forum, he could post as many new topics every day as he wanted. And those that follow him could enjoy it.

Please give Mak_Tin_Si his own place to post

Lets vote on it---you are posting way to much--how about combining them or have a place just for you. If people want to read them then they can click in and read all day!

Peace

 

He already has his own place...Here. He just chooses to post (numerous individual threads) in the main Taoist discussion forum (every day).

 

Seriously... is there a moderator monitoring this situation that can explain to Mak how to use ONE thread instead of having to post multiple unsolicited threads each day?

It's useless. A lot of people allready had told him the same thing for a few weeks now and nothing happened.

Seems like Mak_Tin_Si belongs to a taoist branch where they totally lack modesty and common sense and their only goal is to spread their dogma even if that means dissrespecting everybody else who has a different point of view.

He has been offered / suggested many times to post in a separate thread and to keep things simple - like you would think a taoist representative would normally do, but I guess that is not the case

I am starting to think that there's no difference between taoists and Jehovah's witnesses with the exception of their fancy little hats that stores incredible amounts of energy.

 

He doesn't represent the majority of religious taoists. I encourage everyone to look at his lineage history on his site and come up with your own conclusion about him. I wish the moderators would make a SERIOUS effort (if they haven't already) to PM him and try to explain to him how to use the personal folder he has already been given and help him understand that the public discussion forum does not revolve exclusively around him...

I have done cultivation based on my imagination.in the beginning I had good results. But now my dan tien has risen and is trapped in my chest giving me fear and depression and im unable to express feelings well. also the energy from my kidneys is leaking down leaving my kidneys and lower back sore. the jing from my spine is also in wrong place in front of the body. I have depression now and my body is getting weaker and my movements are like an old mans movements because the strenght is gone from my kidneys. I just want to get back to normal and leave this stuff behind.

I agree with what has been written. Since you have no formal training, you are not qualified to diagnose yourself. Your dan tien, (I'm assuming your LOWER dan tien) has NOT moved into your chest. You are simply feeling energy blockages there. I guarantee you, your lower dan tien is still in your navel. FIRST get yourself to a medical Chi Kung practitioner to balance your energy. THEN if you still want to learn energetic practices, find an experienced qualified teacher and STOP trying to figure it out on your own.

Does your version have a really bad soundtrack where the wind is kicking into the microphone? Hopefully he has improved this in the years since I got my copy

Craig

 

Yes. He has dubbed in some voice overs to cover some of the bad audio...

I would love to see the stuff he left out. you'll have to show me someday..

 

I agree about the lineage Chi feel. I definitely felt like there were some masters hanging out and practicing with me. Even the little computer print out page that came with it made me high when reading it. I definitely got the feeling somebody wanted to make sure I investigated this form...

My wife gave me Winn's DVD of this form for Christmas. As soon as I popped it in and began viewing it, I started getting a really weird but very cool buzz just from watching it. I went ahead and memorized the form this evening and WOW! I highly recommend it. The moves are simple but it creates a double vortex of energy. You are going counterclockwise around a bagua in the short-term and Clockwise in the long-term. This set may look simple but it is creating a major influx of energy vortex thingie... I definitely feel this is more of a ritual than just an energy movement set. I got so high half-way through, I completely forgot where I was and had to eat something in order to ground myself enough to be able to memorize the whole thing. I suspect that the more energy one has built up, the more powerful the effect. I've been looking for a simple but profound movement set to wind down from my other martial sets. I'm glad my wife was led to get this DVD for me... I'm interested in seeing the other versions of this set out there...

Well I have this friend, a very intelligent beautiful 22 yr old woman who is a seriously depressed individual. Her mother, and then her father died of cancer when she was young, from which she seems not to have gotten over. The psychologists have not been able to treat her successfully, and she pretty much shutters herself away from society, also has serious eating disorders.

 

I have become really concerned lately because she is manifesting health problems as well, will probably need surgery for colon, and she told me she is feeling angry alot, as well as depressed. From what I know of demons, this might indicate the entity gaining strength and asserting itself more.

 

So could someone with some expertise in this area, comment?

 

I have performed some exorcisms in my time. There is one thing that I have learned that is the most important. Exorcisms and rituals are very helpful because it allows the psyche to acknowledge an internal purification. But, what I have learned (this may sound simplistic but true...) The best thing any oppressed individual can do is seek spiritual and psychological counseling.

 

In my experience, all demon possession cases start when a tramautic experience or series of experiences damages the aura. This also damages the individual emotionally. The individual gets into a pattern of feeling like a victim. Then, the Universe seeks to dispel this victim idea by prodding the individual to work through the painful feelings and heal, but if the individual is resistant to overcoming negative feelings as a result of the trauma, they seek to avoid these painful feelings and stuff them down deep into the unconscious. This sends a signal to negative entities that the individual needs help staying in denial. Demons will come and make an energetic deal with the individual on either a conscious or unconscious level to keep them in denial in exchange for their physical energy. The demons feed off their aura and the individual is kept distracted from their own painful feelings with all the drama that demons bring. (I'm not trying to minimize the process, just my observations over the years.) In the end the individual must WANT to grow and heal. This is the real key. If the individual is not willing to face their painful feelings, they will not recover.

Counseling is the modern way to seek help in growing emotionally. When the individual is willing to face their painful feelings, the demons will leave, because then the individual will be seeking to take responsibility for their issues and the demons have nothing to feed on...

 

There is also significant evidence that demons are actually psychic projections from within the individual. In any case, the treatment is the same (IMHO) the individual needs tough love and some serious counseling. Exorcisms are also helpful becuase they signify the individual's desire to break the cycle of denial. I recommend any rituals with a combination of long term therapy...

Hope that helps..

Mike

Laozi (or Lao tzu) "Channeled"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF33Nzjnho4

Is it REAL?

Gosh, I had no idea Lao Zi was a south african.

Ooops. Master Yoda already suggested it. I guess I should read entire threads before posting...

hi,

 

I did post only to the theory in general which most lineage do. With meditation, it is really not too good to do it 9-11pm. But if your school does it, that is your school's tradition. There is a theory behind it that I have posted which explains why it is not too good for meditation. But some people don't mind because they do not really work with "FAAT" the energy in Taoism.

 

YIN is good for those who are hot headed because their YANG is overflooded. Just to get a balance.

 

But human do need YANG energy to live and that is why in Chinese we are called " YANG PEOPLE" and dead people are called "YIN PEOPLE". So we do need the YANG to live. There is no way to say you don't.

 

For this 9-11pm, yet, for some practise you do use it for a reason, but mostly not recommended for most people who do any taoism practise on their own. I mean those who do not have a master. This just cause you more and more problems. If you have a master that teach you the method and he explain why then that is fine for sure.

 

Things just have to MAKE SENSE. Then it is fine.

 

Thank you, Mak, for clearing that up. That makes sense

This prevent us from absorbing or attracting YIN energy into our body which is negative and not good for our body. This period is 9-11 at night. We usually avoid this period in all taoism practise. This is called the "HOI" period.

This is not entirely true.

 

This is actually a very auspicious time for internal and meditative work in some schools. I respect all schools and if this is inauspicious for your lineage, I respect that. But other lineages use different methods for different purposes. YIN in and of itself is not "negative" in the sense it is "bad". It is important to have a balance of Yin and Yang and know how to use each energy. Too much yin can be harmful but so can too much Yang.

 

In my lineage, Night time is the best time to do our practices. the worst time is from 1-4 p.m.

 

Again, Mak, I respectfully suggest that you preface your teaching with, "in my lineage, we are taught.." that way you can be accurate in your teaching without presuming to speak for all sects of Taoism...

Dear FET,

 

You know, if that's what you got from my posts, you need to read them again.

 

For a "Master" to sell a lineage is wrong, no matter HOW you slice it!

 

I only make slightly below $600.00 per month.

 

Where is $312.00 gonna come from, out of THAT?

 

Go figure (literally).

 

Peace, gossamer

 

I'm trying understand your point. The point I was trying to make is, is this about money? or is it about the morality of charging a donation to receive a lineage transmission? These are two different issues. If it's immoral to charge for a lineage, then it doesn't matter how much or how little. From what I've read, it sounds like you don't think it is morally OK to charge for lineage transmission. But It also sounds like you want to receive this but can't afford it....So, if this is something you wouldn't want anyway, why care if he charges or how much? But if this is something that you want, why then are you angry?... because it is cost prohibitive? You see my confusion?

If you could easily afford the $312.00 would you be angry still? If the donation for lineage was $10.00 would you still be angry?

This is my point. Is this about money or morality?

Having a problem with a specific thing like "paying to be a Daoist" is a valid point of discussion, but paying a teacher for his/her time is very valid.

If you don't want the service that someone is offering, don't take it. You are free to take it or not. In terms of being a daoist, if you are comfortable calling yourself a daoist, then you don't need to be initiated by someone else... So really this argument isn't about money, it's about whether you need someone else to declare you a Daoist...