fiveelementtao

 

I was fairly fearful of the (spontaneous) Kundalini Kunlun mix at the beginning but that fear was not warrented. As Santiago says, its all Shakti. its all Shakti. Upward, downward, sideways, round and round...

De Paradise,

I don't think the issue is in regards to spontaneous kundalini. I believe it is in regards to exercises that are designed for raising kundalini. Kundalini is not Prana (Chi), they are related but Kundalini is different than Chi. If somebody has not or is not doing kundalini specific exercises, it should not be an issue.

For me, the warning about mixing kundalini was VERY warranted in my case. I was heavily into Kundalini Yoga and mantra and found I had some pretty serious energy collisions when I chose to seriously get back into Mao Shan and then later Kunlun. I have learned that there are differences in different energy techniques and yes, they are all forms of energy, BUT each energy has a specific vibration and purpose. It is important as we get deeper and deeper into these more powerful techniques that we be careful not to simply throw different techniques together. I have found that Max is a very understated guy and if he found it necessary to put in his book a warning about mixing certain energies together, he did it for a very good reason. It has certainly rung true in my case. It has taken alot of work to get my energy back into a comfortable flow... So, I will echo the warning, follow Max's advice about mixing the energy practices...

My .02

...

I'm studying with Sith Lord Max, but keep it on the downlow!!

A Sith Lord?! (GASP). You are head of the Jedi council. What will become of the Republic?

I went to meet Sifu Hata last weekend. He is the Asian man at www.energyfist.com. I found him by looking up fiveelementstao's website and following the links back to his teacher, who I discovered had a school in Los Angeles. Sifu Hata was very friendly and did a few demonstrations for me to show how they use chi in their fighting style. He did a few light slaps on my arm and one on my leg. It seemed like it was hitting right down to the bone. The one on my leg made me feel like I couldn't move it. He also did some type of accupressure on me and opened up a few points to make the chi flow more strongly when I did a few light slaps on one of his students. It was quite interesting and he seemed like he was teaching something authentic. I am planning to start classes on Sunday. Thank you fiveelementtao for posting information about your teacher on your website. Craig

Great Craig!

I think he mentioned a new student Craig, but I thought it was someone else. He mentioned that you had studied with a student of Lum Sifu. Is that right? Who did you study with?

Who is the asian man of energyfist?

 

cheers

Spirit Ape

He is my teacher

What are your views on which order- Kunlun followed by Tai Chi, or the other way around. I originally thought that playing Tai Chi after KL would distribute the energy evenly. I now prefer to do Tai Chi first. It loosens me up and makes my KL session more powerful.

Good Question. Your method sounds good. Usually, I have plenty of energy going after Kunlun.

I guess I was thinking to do Tai Chi in the morning and Kunlun at night... But, hey whatever works!!!

Your teacher learnt from Andrew Lum?

 

Or have i got a different person?

My teacher learned from one of Andrew Lum's indoor students. So, Sifu Lum is my great-grandteacher.

5Element

 

Are you the person in the clip on your site showing the technique on the guy with the goaty?

 

Ape

Yes, that's me...

YJUUVGlR_v4&eurl

5ET,

 

SJ has some disagreements with us kunlunies but nothing to take personally, bro.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

Greetings Master Yoda,

as always, your sage advice is very welcome. btw, who is that human in your avatar picture?

No, I'm not taking it personally. I just want Steve to know that it's not cool to twist my posts to serve his purposes. I have actually been corresponding with him via email for a while 'cause I felt bad for the guy. I was under the impression that we were friends. It's a little startling to find my "friend" publicly insinuating that I worship demons and will go to hell when I die. I'm just letting him know it's not cool.

So, When are you available for lightsaber and telekenisis classes? I checked the Jedi Academy's schedule and I did not see your name there? Are you taking a sabbatical on degoba?

I see you guys talk openly about your working with demon power so I guess there's no reason for me to have been so bashful about it like I was before. You know, if you associate with spirits or demons when you leave your body behind for the big sleep they own your ass and if one is to believe such things, it is said you become one of them as well.

 

It's what shamanism is all about. Shamans work on cultivating power from spirits while martial artists work on cultivating chi power. The universe of spirits has got to be like anything else, containing swirls and eddies of yin and yang, light and dark, good and bad. What it is about bad, really, if there really is no good and bad? Bad is more like "needy", isn't it, It's clingy. Interestingly that's the way it works with chi too, sick energy is clingier than good energy.

 

Another thing is that all aspects of a person are contained in their energy field and if they share their energy field with someone else then there is also a sharing of information and not just raw chi power. This information is what is given during a transmission, and it isn't like they're summoning demons, but the demons will be part of the 'information' that a person receives. Do these demons then go sashaying through the hallways of your mind, looking to see if anything fits?

 

I saw people here talking about ascension. These people who are indebted to spirits won't be achieving ascension because the spirits own their ass. So, if you get anything from someone who gets their power from spirits, whether it be energy, lessons, transmissions, favors or prayers, then you are in debt to them and you become in debt to the same demons that provide the power.

 

Don't think I'm taking a holier than thou attitude here either, it's too late for me since my soul's already been sold, I guess.

 

But here's my advice to everybody else, if it's not too late for you:

 

RUN!

Hey Steve!

I don't appreciate you using my posts and insinuating that I commune with Demons. I have been your friend and have not judged you. I have never publicly stated that I use demon power. I was taught a form of exorcism and cleansing which is the exact opposite! While others were ridiculing you and attacking you I was reaching out to you as a friend. Is this the way you treat your friends?!

You have some major issues pal. You're lucky I have taken that vow or I'd be looking to test your sorcerer martial skills. You're acting like a real jerk!

Doctors do know what cancer is. They know that it is caused by the immune system. according to wholistic doctors, cancer is caused by the immune system trying to flush out systemic poisons. but western doctors don't know how to treat it.

I agree with you that the cure is prevention through keeping the body and mind clean.

http://www.health.theholographicmind.com/

Buddist enlightenment is a very specific thing.

 

Believe it or not, the popular book "The Power of NOW" by Eckhart Tolle nails it.

 

If you read that book, and get some Dzogchen teachings, you can reach the first bhumi within an extremely short period of time. All the later bhumis just depend on the quality of maintaing that state, which is why yes, even the first bhumi IS ACTUAL ENLIGHTENMENT.

 

AFTER you attain direct experience with the natural state, is when you should take up the energy body practices and thogal to obtain the rainbow body to help all sentient beings

Well, then I am going to change my definition of enlightenment. If enlightenment is something that can be "lost" or needs to be "maintained" then it is simply another stage in the evolutionary process. In my definition, enlightenment is the ability to learn and grow along with all my states both positive and negative, happy or sad. The enlightenment that I see being thrown around in forums and books is simply denial. Anything that promises to instantly relieve you of pain or emotional struggles is unhealthy and spiritually stifling and IMO it ain't enlightenment. Bliss or "no mind" or any other state of mind is temporary and can be used just like any other drug. If used as a tool to help, then great. If used to deny pain, it is a trap. I've been around the block a few times in terms of energy work and meditation, and in my experience, nothing will "save" you. They are all tools. But nothing to me is more enlightened than being Kind and loving. And you don't need to be a buddhist or a taoist to do that.

lets just be ourselves and leave the value judgements behind-

I second that!

Nah - enlightenment is like tao.

 

You either get it or you dont.

 

WhiteMoon says as long as you think "enlightenment" is something seperate that needs chasing, you'll never catch it.

Exactly! Enlightenment is not a destination, it is the process and I don't think it ends... Even after escaping rebirth, there will still be learning and growing to occur in the next dimension. and whatever we avoid here we will take with us and have to work on in the ethers! So, just relax, be real and enjoy.

After lurking around various webforums and websites relating to meditation ++ my very superficial and absolutely not necesarily correct impression is that while people that are into taoist cultivation methods seem to get somewhat better results in terms of cultivating energy but that actualy reaching enlightenment (at the initial stages) is much more frequent amongst people practicing budhist methods and to some extent also in the yogic traditions. As I said I am not claiming this is true, it is just the impression I get online. I have read quite often about people reaching first and second enlightenment within theravada, Tibetan Budhism and Zen but almost never read about anyone except peoples Master in China etc having attained this with taoist methods. Do you think this is correct and if so why? Is it because the taoist methods spend a lot of time doing energy work that is useful for many purposes but not necessary for reaching enlightenment while most Budhist and yogic aproaches just aim straight at getting the strictly necesary work done to get enlightened? Is it because it is so difficult to actually get the necesary teachings within taoism becuase so much is kept secret while in for example in Vipassana absolutely everything is in the open or is it something else?

There is a huge difference between the goals of buddhism, taoism and yoga.

Depends on what you mean by enlightenment. That term is thrown around so cavalierly. Buddhists are seeking emotional and spiritual detachment and freedom from pain as described by gautama buddha which results in freedom from rebirth. This is a clear objective and much easier to delude oneself about attaining. because after having an emotional experience one can declare themselves enlightened and there is no way to prove it, because how do you prove that you will not reborn again?

So, in buddhism it is easier to declare oneself enlightened based on a feeling of detachment or bliss or what have you, but in taoism if you claim to have reached some state of perfection, you have to be able to back it up with your energy.

Taoists are not seeking a theoretical detachment, they are seeking physical immortality and spiritual transformation as a result of their energetic work which corresponds with definable, measurable energetic changes. Taoists are also seeking freedom from rebirth but in a different way. Taoists are much more pragmatic and practical and they have more of a "show me" attitude.

IMO the idea of enlightenment that is thrown around is a bunch of new age hooey. New age hacks like eckhart tolle and other new age celebrities have given western seekers some idea that if they adopt an eastern religion and "empty their minds" or "free themselves from ego" or some other nebulous definition of spirituality that they will instantly be free from their emotional issues and be "enlightened". IMO spiritual transformation is a process and if you are still in a human body, then you haven't reached it....

So, if you are looking for a system that will give you "enlightenment", I suggest something other than taoism. We're not seeking a magic pill (Well some of us aren't). We're seeking a fun process that will measure our energetic progress toward self-transformation.

This is not to say that I think Buddhism is not a worthwhile path. I just get cranky when I hear the term enlightenment thrown around like it's something that can be achieved in a weekend seminar or something.

What do you mean exactly when you say 'energy systems'? Do you mean metaphysical systems like the taoist five elements and the kabbalistic four elements?

 

Could you please tell me more about what you have found?

Well, in terms of energy cultivation, I learned some exercises, meditations, etc.. in my tradition that I have found are not energetically compatible with some other traditions' energetic disciplines. Basically- mixing traditions gave me chi sickness. Also what about theoretical differences? for example, some taoists disagree about yin and yang. I met with a master who believed that Yin was the right side and Yang was the left. I was taught the opposite. I can see how this kind of mixing of cultivation techniques and differing theories could create snags when we share techniques. How would we deal with "my Kung Fu better" type of disagreements? How would we handle these kinds of differing views?

Hey Stig!

What a really COOL idea

I have found that some energy systems do not blend well with others and in fact some energies can be harmful if blended together. I have also come to believe that different energy systems have different purposes in the grand scheme of the Universe. How would you suggest that these differences be dealt with?

Would this be like a University where people come to learn different things?

I recently recieved the Kunlun book and I had a question concerning the I jong and five elements practices. Are these practices intended to be used only after the six month beginning period, or would it be safe to do the I jong for grounding purposes immediatley?

You can begin using them immediately. they are supplemental practices to Kunlun. They were originally taught by a Taoist Master for cultivating power for internal martial arts training. They are powerful.

hello bums,

 

I have recently purchased the Kunlun book off the internet and am expecting to get it in a couple of weeks or so.

 

first off, I understand there needs to be an energy transmission from a qualified teacher, but since I live in Mexico it will be difficult for me to attend any seminars at least for the time being. is the book sufficient to start off at least into an initial practice? how should i go about this?

 

secondly, my current regular practice consists of reiki, several sorts of meditation, kung fu, reciting mantra, and I will also be imminently introduced to tai-chi. are any of these practices contraindicated when practicing kunlun? I understand kundalini yoga is. could anyone expound on what one should NOT do when practicing kunlun?

I'd hate to get one of those "awakening syndromes", which sound annoying and hard to cure without an expert in the subject.

 

I guess that's it. thank you for responses.

 

streetcat.

In my experience, Tai Chi is good. it will help ground the energy in the dan tien and help it permeate the joints and organs.

5elements,

 

No no im not challenging MAX please dont take my words as a challenge but what im saying is if i stand there and he can chi blast me without me wanting it, i would be a HUGE believer so when he comes to Oz is it possible that he can demonstrate this on me to feel it. I can sense QI so any energy that i feel i will say it and be truthful but out of the power of suggestion i simple think that most people dont truly know what is happening. I dont think that is true skill IMHO!

 

For instance years ago i played around with empty force with my students and moved them as they could feel the pressure from the chi onto them but i also asked them to keep an open mind and go with what you feel that to me still wasnt good enough.

 

see what i saying?

 

thanks

Spirit Ape

Yeah, I get ya,

I think the answer is "yes he can. But will he?"

I didn't think you were challenging him. I know what you mean about empty force guys. There's a guy here in my town that trains with one of these empty force Tai chi masters that can only move you if you are "open to it." Which in my mind is worthless if you are seeking to learn a martial art. Kunlun energy is not the same as martial chi type energy. It's purpose is totally different. But, From what little I've seen, I don't think Max would blast someone with martial energy on the first day. I think he wants to teach the more non-martial spiritual stuff. I think it would probably take quite a long time of training with him before he would blast someone with the Mao Martial energy. (Just my guess)

I think that these powers are more of suggestion as people at the seminars are wanting something to happen and Max saying let go and go with whatever you feel from him is the Suggestion. My point is can he do this to someone without them knowing or not wanting it to happen? I'm using John Chang as he has this power to project his energy and make people jump with or without there consent.

 

The women crying was very interesting, mantra what does his dragon body look like when he opens it or does everyone see him differently?

 

Ape

Spirit Ape,

I understand your questions. I know from Mao Mountain Demon Fighting that consent is not part of the equation. If you want to zap someone, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Max is using (at least) two different types of energy. The Kunlun energy is very blissful and requires some consent on the receiver, The Mao Mountain type of energy does not. I have seen Max use the Mao energy in ways I had heard about but never seen. Max whacked me a couple times with the Tao Ga energy and it had nothing to do with my consent. Max also did a kunlun energy "trick" on me. I immediately felt it in my chest but I also had control over whether or not I wanted to receive it. I accepted it partway, but when he was pushing me to the floor, I was able to resist it.

I know for myself that I have taken a vow never to use the Demon Fighting energy on anyone unless they are my student or if I am in physical danger. So, if Max has taken the same vow, he's not going to unleash the Mao Energy on someone unless they are his student. And if someone wants to fight him, he probably will decline.

So, really, the only way you're going to know whether or not it is real is if you can experience it first hand with a non-confrontational attitude. and any conclusions you "think" you know are pure conjecture until you meet him. But, if you're looking to start something or have an attitude, he'll know and show you nothing....

so, why not solve the mystery and check it out and then you'll know.

Obviously there are many paths that lead to the top. Max seems entirely different than the other Master, i.e. John Chang, Robert Peng, etc. Why is there such a huge difference if all the practices lead to the same top..or do they?

No they don't. John Chang is a "bottom up" energy system. Max's is a "top down" energy system. there are other differences, but that is the main general difference.

I agree that they ultimately achieve the same general objective, but it is a different method...

I recommend Chia's stuff to people looking for a general introductory energy system. If you have no teacher I think it's worth a shot. After you get more in depth, you may want to find a live teacher. Many on this board have used Chia's stuff with great success. It works well with the stuff I learned, which is not easy to do. This water method you mention sounds interesting to me though...

I find it interesting that all of the "Daoist" martial arts at some point have a story where someone learned the art from a wandering Daoist monk. As we all have heard each of these arts has some secret schools or techniques that are very hard to find. It makes me wonder, If these stories are true that each of the Daoist martial arts came from some anonymous daoist monk, what did the secret art they learned look like.

I found this vid on youtube. It's cool to see some serious applications to Tai Chi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBA7LsumNGs...feature=related