fiveelementtao

Tai Chi is a wonderful, healing art. It is also a tremendous meditation and guide toward harmony. But, to be accurate, the healing aspect of Tai Chi as the primary focus of the art is a relatively new focus. It's historical and traditional aim was a devastating martial art. In it's original form (very hard to find) it was a killing art. When one of the old masters was asked, "What do you think of when practicing your form?" He replied, "I see blood."

That doesn't minimize the incredible health benefits and harmonizing meditative properties of the art.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing those.

_/\_

I'll share some info with you, I'm not allowed share any more info than the one below.

 

Here is a typical example of how the Taoist Mao Shan sect make Fu's.

 

1) Mantras to purify heart, speech/mouth and body.

2) Earth deity mantra, Purify heaven and earth mantra, great brilliance mantra, wish fulfilling incense mantra, mysterious spiritual gatheing mantra.

3) Taoist deity/ God invocation mantra.

4) Blessing and empowering of inventory: empower paper, water, ink, brush.

5) Drawing the 3 strokes (The 3 Pure Ones, the highest deities of taoism).

6)The Ninth Heaven Mysterious Lady Empowerment Mantra.

7) Then draw talisman, recite mantra with mudra to empower and then seal.

 

Below is an example of a finished talisman. The Tai Shang Lao Zun Talisman for Protection

 

 

ahmed,

Is your Mao Shan from the Shang Ch'ing sect?

..

My real Taoism is not your real Taoism. Your real Taoism is not real in my real Taoism, and my real Taoism is not real in your real Taoism. Who's real Taoism is real Taoism?

Good point.

Maybe we should just take out the ISM part. Someone once said to me " ism stands for I Self and Me."

If the Tao is infinite, How can it NOT include something?

I guess when we put ISM on anything, we limit it...

Please reply this post, I cannot see what is the point of you talking here with this kind of BS. Please contribute something useful and don't criticize me.

Mak Tin Si,

How is it you do not know how prideful and arrogant you sound when you say..

I cannot see how did I offend others in this forum and when did I told you all to convert yourself into the REAL taoism?

Do you really not see how that is offensive and arrogant? Really? you do not see that?

I can see now people are all talking about Taoism as chi gung, martial arts.. okay.. but that is NOT all of Taoism.

Nobody said it was ALL of Taoism. Do you mean to say that you know ALL of Taoism? You can't seriously be that arrogant.

Listen, my friend, that fact is you HAVE offended many people on this forum.

If you are serious when you ask how and don't know how you have been offensive, it is in your best interest to learn how.

I was once told my my Tao teacher, "If two or more people say something about you, you must look at yourself in the mirror and ask why they say these things."

Many people on this forum have found you to be prideful and arrogant. If this is untrue, it is in your best interest to try to understand how they have gotten this false impression of you...

Taoism is very very big, it consist much more than just Lao Zi , Tao Te Ching and it doesn't include Yoga.

Why do you need to attack yoga? What is wrong with it? I agree Tao is very very big. My friend, Tao includes EVERYTHING even Yoga. Tao also includes much more than fu and ritual also. Tao may be bigger than you think.

why don't you look at the Taoism rituals? Taoism healings? Fu? and also the other great scriptures in the Taoism Canon

Many people want very much to learn these things. Bees are attracted to flowers. When you tell people they are not REAL taoists, you put manure on the flowers and the bees are driven away.

Do not tell them they are inferior. It is your job to attract people so you can help them. By telling them they need to convert to "REAL" taoism, you make them feel like you are saying they are stupid. I know this is not your intention.

If you are true Tao master, you know I have no anger in my heart toward you. Look deep, you will see I am not your enemy. A true friend has the courage to be honest and tell someone the truth. I know that you want to help. be more respectful and more tolerant of the ignorant and you will be able to spread the word of Taoism to more people that need it...

I wish you good luck. I know you have much to teach all of us...

Taoism was formed long time ago before LaoZi, we can now still trace back to the time when the first king of China was chosen in China. His name is Hin Yuen Wong Di, 軒轅皇帝. He have invented a form of Medic call Taoism Medic, which is called "Juk Yau Foh" in Chinese　祝由科.

 

This is a branch of Taoism passed on and got highly promoted by all the kingdoms and dynasties in China for curing weird illness and rare decease or mental problems. This form of Taoism Medic is a branch that was used with the Han's Dynasty Medic (Chinese medic you can learn nowadays about herbs). Since the Sun Nung, 神農 have invented herbal medicine in China long time ago, the king Wong Di have been worried that most of the poor people could not get the herbs required all the time because they could not afford to buy them or get someone to get the herbs for them. Therefore, he invented a form of medic that uses the Taoism "fu" (taolisman) and transform universal energy to cure illness for the civilization.

 

This form of Taoism Medic could now still be learned in Taoism and it have been a great contribution to Taoism. If one want to know more about Taoism, they shall all take a look at this great invention in Taoism which is more advance and takes long time to train. This form of Taoism Medic is organic and very effecient. If you are very sick and tired of eating pills and avid, this might be something you might want to learn or try because it does not have side effect and it is very organic.

 

Some may think it is superstitious, but if so, why don't you learn it and study it before saying something so naive. This form of taoism have been passed on from long time ago and it have saved many lives. We shall all respect the first king of China Wong Di for his great contribution of Taoism. Which also prooved that LaoZi is not the initial founder of Taoism. There are much more people was before the first king of China who got into Taoism study already. Wong Di's taoism knowledge are from the immortal of Gau Tin Yuen Nui 九天玄女, so there could be much more immortals way before LaoZi.

 

In my own experience of using Taoism Medic, it is very efficient and organic. It is even more effective than the western medicine because I have got a patient who got into a car accident. His organs were all harmed by the shocking of the car, which the western doctors could not tell, but the chinese doctors already knew that there are internal bleeding. The patient could smell blood from his own breathe, and the patient was very weak and ill after the accident. So what I do was used Taoism Medic by using FU (the taolisman) 符 and combine it with herbal medicine to cure this problem. After 3 treatments, the patient's internal bleeding was totally cured, there were no more blood smell in his breathe and his was running around happily after the last treatment.

 

Aside from the internal bleeding probem, his also have mental problems because many people have some phycological problem after car accident. They become very worried or scared when they drive again. Some also dream of the accident alot. With my Taoism knowledge, this is due to the shocking that harm the patient's Wun Pak 魂魄 the souls. Therefore, there are always bad dreams and nightmares. So what I did was used the Fu again (taoliman) and cured the problem. In 3 days, the problem was all gone and the patient does not have this problem anymore after 3 days, everything became normal. While I heard from another doctor, he said that most people will get mental problems for a long period after a big accident, here this patient was cured in 3days. how magical!!

 

Here I state that one who want to learn Taoism shall also take a look at these Taoism Medic to know more about why Taoism is so great and what it could really help people and save lives.

 

The Taoism's door is open, it welcome everyone to learn and drink the cup of tea inside the home of Taoism. But to learn it, you must first pour yours and wait.

Mak Tin SI

Mak Tin Si,

_/\_

Thank you for this post. I see that you are sharing your lineage with others. That is good. Now we can see that you are Taoist of a particular lineage. I also see that now you have left room for other people to have a different lineage and you are not comparing yourself to them. In previous posts, you sounded very prideful as though you knew everything about ALL taoism. you sounded disrespectful to others who may have not as much experience as you. Now, I hear that you are only sharing what you were taught in your lineage. I see here a more humble side of you. Thank you for being available to share your knowledge with others and giving respect to different lineages and to people of different amount of Tao education and knowledge. Now, you will see that some people who were offended by you will be more curious and feel welcomed by you. Respecting everyone is also the mark of a Taoist master. Just because some people have only known of Tao from Lao Tzu does not make their experience inferior. Just as you knowing more of Tao history and healing ritual does not make you superior. We are all equal. I'm sure you know this and only want to help people.

I wish you good luck getting more students...

Well, you really do have to remember that we are taking a part of a religion and calling it our own. It's like if we went to Christianity and said "Ok, we like this this and this. We are taking Matthew and John, you can have all the rest. But we are still calling ourselves Christians." And really, who knows what we may be missing because we automatically dismiss all the religious aspects out of hand. There may be some rituals that would help in cultivation that we will never know.

 

And, he may have gone about it the wrong way, but he has a decent point regarding books. It's great we read the books, but still for the most part the meaning can be very hard to grasp. Otherwise we wouldn't come here and discuss various topics. I don't have the energy to search it down, but there is a whole lot of times that people let new seekers know that taoism is more to be experienced than read about. And when it comes to cultivation, I believe everyone here that ever mentioned learning qigong, taiji, etc from a dvd or book, was recommended to find a teacher, because even small mistakes in posture etc can really ruin energy flow and such.

 

Sometimes we need to just learn to ignore the parts of something we don't like and take the good out of it. Or if we are going to point out the negative, do it in a much more productive way. Some things, like conartists, deserve our ire, others do not.

There may be some rituals that would help in cultivation that we will never know....

Great! I have no problem with that. I'm not telling him not to share... Just don't demean others in the process..

Share whatever you want. I will be as grateful as anyone else.. His knowledge is not the issue.

who knows what we may be missing because we automatically dismiss all the religious aspects out of hand.

I'm not dismissing his religion at all. I'm dismissing his lack of respect and tact.

being a priest doesn't give him a special pass to be disrespectful and demeaning. A priest needs to be more respectful to people. His job is to help. So, as a priest, he needs to be more humble than the rest of us not less humble...

Look, let's be real here... If hari krishanas came on taobums saying their way was the best or the only way to God, we would all speak out against that. Just because the guy is taoist priest doesn't give him the right to disrespect anyone else. If you want respect you have to give it. Plus as I have already said. there are many sects of Tao and not all of them agree with each other. So, just because he is taoist priest doesn't mean he speaks for all Taoism. He can only speak for his sect. And even then, I don't even know who he is within his own sect. I don't even know which sect he is from.. I am sure he isn't from mine...

If he had said, "In my tradition we believe.." Or " I was taught..." there would be no problem. But, just because he is a priest, doesn't give him any special priviledges.

It's like if we went to Christianity and said "Ok, we like this this and this. We are taking Matthew and John, you can have all the rest. But we are still calling ourselves Christians."

I disagree. This happens all the time. There are so many different Christian sects that have basically done that exact thing. The same is true in taoism. As I have said, I have no disagreement with his info or knowledge, I am only responding to his arrogance... Priest or no priest, it ain't cool.

Wow, I don't know where some of the people that I have seen posting lately came from, but some of you have major attitude issues. I personally don't agree with a dogmatic approach to Taoism either, but that is no reason for you people to be disrepectful assholes to someone that is trying to share what they know. Not too forget, that some of what you are posting is bullshit anyway.

Since when? I know taijiquan, qigong, etc all are energy cultivation. But that is NOT taoism. Taoism is very much a philosophy, and/or lifestyle. I have never seen energy practices taught in the TTC, Zhuang Zhu<sp?>, etc. There are cultivation practices based on taoist principles, but that is again, not taoism istelf.

 

.

 

So then Lao Tzu knew nothing as well, right? Which leads to a paradox, since he is the one telling you that to begin with. Whether any of us like it or not, religious taoism made it possible for us westerners to become exposed to theses texts, because they kept them alive.

1st off, that's not a chinese thing, but is done by teachers in most of the asian religions. The point is to get you thinking to where you find the answer yourself. But the majority of westerners, myself included, don't have the patience to learn things for ourselves most times. We want the answer when we want it, which is 5 minutes ago.

 

My entire point here is that there are a few people that need to calm down. It's one thing to disagree with someone, and entirely another to treat them like trash. Just because you say "I don't mean to be offensive" or some such, doesn't give you the right to do just that.

Nobody is disagreeing with his experiences or info. Most of what he says is really cool and interesting, it's only his attitude of "I am a REAL taoist and you are not." that we are reacting to. There is a superiority and an attitude of comparison. And it sounds just like born again christians.

If he were only here to share, we would love it. But when he starts telling everyone that they are not real taoists and he is, he comes off very egotistical.

And by the way, Lao tzu rips into religious know-it-alls pretty good. He tore Confucius a new Ahole for the same type of attitude this guy gives. Read his posts again you will find the quotes... "A real taoist has a master, a real taoist is initiated. you can't get tao from books, blah, blah, blah. I never got my Tao from books, I got mine from real masters, I know for a fact this guy does not know some of the stuff I know. But I certainly wouldn't say he's not a taoist. Take that ego crap out of his posts and we would all love what he says and ask him more.

I am posting this because I am amazed at some of the posts here in answer to postings by a Taoist Priest.

I'm sure I will catch some flack for this but here goes.

 

Re: Recent posts by a Taoist Priest

This gentlemen appears to be honestly posting on the experience of Taoist tradition and studies AS DONE IN CHINA. Some have given him quite a bit of negative feedback because (it appears) you don't like organized "religion". But what he posts is very worthwhile and I for one find it very interesting. No, I don't particularly like too much form either. But I know many of the things, especially the High Level teachings, are NOT in the books but are handed down in Lineage.

 

I know for myself one of the most awesome "happenings" to me was in a Taoist temple in China that I was simply touring. Something that absolutely can't be explained linearly. I also know the lineage teachings go way beyond reading the books and sometimes energetically happen instantaneously because they were meant to be (destiny).

 

How many of the books tell about the lost Taoist Medicine system that ABSOLUTELY HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH TCM? The answer is none. Very few people, even in China, know it ever existed. But a certain Taoist family lineage kept it alive.

 

I think the teachings ALL (books included) have something to offer us. Just be careful in taking translations from various Chinese texts as direct knowledge or as absolute because even the Chinese Scholars disagree.

And I know oral traditions can be distorted as well, but at least one can experience the energetics associated with the lineage and it is much easier to get the essence of the teachings when studying with a real teacher.

 

I am not sure if I have any real point to make here, just stating some thoughts. Sure not trying to offend anyone.

Ya Mu,

What people are responding negatively to is not this man's lineage. I for one have enjoyed many of his posts and found them to be very educational. I think we all respect that he is an initiate in a temple. If he were simply sharing his understanding and experiences, everyone would be grateful. But if you look through some of his posts you will see him inferring that the rest of us are not real taoists because we have not been initiated in his sect or learned as he has.

I find it very naiive of him that he doesn't even acknowledge that his is only ONE of many taoist sects and that many of those sects probably disagree with his. So, it is not his knowledge or his traditional taoist training that we are objecting to. It is his superior attitude that we find objectionable and very non-taoist.

I wonder if Lao Tzu was initiated... If not, then most taoists have no master!

How can you just open a bible and say you are a christian? You may claim yourself as a christian, but nobody in the religion claim you are part of them.

I have to respond to this. There are MANY sects of Christianity. Some require baptism (initiation) some don't. Technically ANYONE who chooses to follow the teachings of Jesus is a christian.

There is a difference between religious taoism and practical taoism. Religious taoism refers to belonging to a group or sect. Practical taoism is about having practical energetic results.

Taoism has many different sects. Many religious taoist sects require initiation and have rules to follow. Taoism is also an energetic science. There are many different taoist energetic practices which accomplish different goals.

but nobody in the religion claim you are part of them.

Who cares what other people think about you? If your focus is to gain recognition from others, you have missed the whole point of Tao.

I just want people to feel free to explore taoism and taoist energetic practices without feeling "less than" because they haven't been initiated into a philosophical, intellectual or religious "club". Lao Tzu makes it pretty clear that the Tao is available to all.

An Untitled Sequel To The Sorcerer's Crossing

is due out at the end of this month.

 

Taisha Abelar's first book, The Sorcerer's Crossing, a Woman's Journey, was the story of her training with Castenada's teacher Don Juan and his party of sorcerers, who taught sorcery as a pragmatic endeavor by means of which you can directly perceive energy. Actually doing that demands an enormous amount of energy, which you can acquire by freeing yourself from your normal capacity to perceive. The Sorcerer's Crossing describes Taisha's training to acquire enough energy to make the Sorcerer's Crossing.

 

The Sorcerer's Crossing refers in part to the corpus callousm where right and left brains communicate.

 

The first book was a life changer for me, and I can hardly wait to read this one!

Here's another good book.

My Life with Carlos Castaneda by Amy Wallace

I myself read and reread all of castaneda's works for years. His works had a profound impact on me... Unfortunately there is very credible evidence that he was a fraud. A genius, but a fraud....

 

For me there's no need to reconcile the systems in the way that one element from one should correspond to one element from the other system. I don't see any benefit. The way I see it though, is that the 5 phases are more gross, and the 5 elements more subtle. So you can separate one element into 5 also, like water of water, fire of water, air of water, earth of water and space of water and so on... But I guess you can turn it around too, I think it's more like a relative thing. Someone used one system to describe phenomena, someone used another.

The four element cycle is also 5. earth-water-fire-air-ether(spirit)

Here's what I think.

The same except that air is metal and ether is wood. There are obvious differences, but if I had to make a transliteration, that's how I would do it.

only my guess...

how can i apply tao or taoist aspects to my life?

 

without disregarding my way of life which is islam?

Excellent question... I think the answer is in your question. Simply apply the principles of Tao and continue to honor your Muslim faith. Maybe you can view Allah as the ultimate Taoist Master and ask Allah in your prayers to guide you in the Tao.

Tao is an energetic science, not a religion. so you can be a Taoist and worship God any way you choose. _/\_

what exactly is enligment and how would you define it?

My opinion based only on my limited experience....

The best we can get is just HUMAN....an enlightened person is simply a kind and loving person PERIOD!.... Anyone who can be kind and forgiving and helpful to others while being honest, humble and real with themselves is as enlightened as it gets... I have trained with numerous "enlightened" masters... ALL of them had ego and limitation. Some were wise and nice people, but I only learned from the ones who knew they were human and shared their struggles with me. in a couple of cases, these "masters" were extremely destructive, egotistical and emotionally immature. This includes even those who have died and ressurrected. This includes even those with astounding supernatural powers. I have not yet met ONE completely enlightened person according to the new agey ideal of being perfect, without emotional flaw and "One" with God. I have met some who were ahead of me in their development, but none of them were bodhisattvas or avatars... NONE!

I don't care how energetically advanced they are. To me that is no different than a professional bodybuilder on an energetic level. No matter how powerful or refined our energy is, we still have to confront ego and limitation.

I love the saying, "If you see Buddha on the road, kill him." Worshipping teachers IMHO will only stifle spiritual growth and promote emotional denial...

I have tremendous difficulty with the hyper generalized definitions like "Conscious" "Aware", "in the moment", "surrendered". These kinds of generalized, intellectualized definitions sound very poetic but, HOW do you do it? I think these kind of hyper idealized new agey ideals only promote emotional denial. People want sooo badly to be free of emotional pain and that's why "Gurus" attract so many people. Don't even get me started on the so called Gurus, like Osho, Tolle etc. who claim to be in constant nirvana.... What a load of CRAP! The closest thing to enlightenment I have found is in books like, The Wandering Taoist, Enter the dragon's Gate, Aghora ... These people only claim to have found energetic systems to reach their highest potential. They still admit to be being human. IMHO, there is NO energetic system that will make a person without flaw or emotional struggles. If someone stays real with themselves, these systems can help tremendously but spiritual disciplines are only tools, they are not the goal.

(sigh)... my .02

Hi y'all,

As far as I know, there are three different element cycles for different purposes. I mostly only hear about 2 of them., the creative and controlling cycles, but there is a third which I've rarely seen talked about known as the "demeaning", "subduing" or "vanquishing" cycle (Wood-Metal-Fire-Water-Earth). I am interested in any understandings people may have of this little talked about element cycle and its purpose/uses.

Thanks

I know the theory, but it presupposes everybody is the same... My mother grew up in a village hundreds of miles away from the nearest sources of pollution, with water from a natural spring, with food grown in the family plot of land, with no chance to "overeat" -- every potato counted -- but with no danger of malnutrition either. She milked her goat before school for her morning breakfast. (Of course they also grew their own tobacco and she was introduced to smoking when she was 8, but that's another story.) Then, when she was an adult, a doctor prescribed a course of antibiotics for "prevention" (someone at her work place got dysentery and they "treated" everybody). She could never eat raw foods ever again. She knew that it was because of all her beneficial intestinal flora having been destroyed, and went to considerable lengths to reintroduce it. It never happened -- something that the antibiotic did to the intestinal lining made it impossible for any beneficial critters to take residence there again. After years of much struggle and medical attention and diets and cleanses and what not, she just had to come to terms with the fact that she can't digest anything raw anymore, period. She loves raw fruits and vegetables and misses them always, and occasionally experiments -- she'll take a tiny bit of this or that... and a month of stomachaches and other problems is guaranteed. Nothing to do with a "cleansing reaction."

 

Where I come from they used to have (and train MDs in) some 30 different diets for different health problems, and one of them was a raw food diet for a "cleanse." Anyway... this is the argument I've been avoiding for so long, the nutritional one, might as well keep up the good work and shut up. I've been nutritionally trained elsewhere and what passes for healthy nutrition here-now is going to fail to impress me every time... in any event, I am not going to convince a true believer and besides, I don't really want to argue with you, I like you!

I posted a reply but it disappeared.... No arguing at all. Just exchanging views. Now that you have explained it, I can see why your mother has difficulty with raw foods. Interesting how the the discussion has come back around to antibiotics.. (thank you Mr Pasteur). I knew that antibiotics can be harmful if overused but I had not idea that it could do that... I heard on a radio show a research Dr. who was saying that recent discoveries have indicated that we have more helpful bacteria in our bodies than cells! He even went so far as to say that asthma may be linked to a reduction of a certain helpful bacteria that has been increasingly missing in humans since the 1920's... He even insinuated that it's good for kids to play in the dirt and even eat it..... That's not what my Mom taught me....

5eltao,

 

Take raw food... my mother is put out of commission for a month if she eats anything raw, and has been like that for most of her life. Long as she doesn't, she's fine.

My brother is the same way. As long as he is eating pure grease and cheese and garbage, he can function OK But he is getting more and more sick as he gets older and is on alot of meds for various "conditions". But he is "allergic" to veggies especially raw ones... I was taught (this may not necessarily be "Taoist") that there is a difference between prevention and cure. as a prevention, I was taught to eat raw veggies to maintain health. In terms of cure, during extreme cleansing (illness), raw foods should be introduced slowly so they don't trigger a massive cleansing crisis. Raw food tends to exacerbate any cleansing (illness) that is occurring. for some that is why raw veggies make them feel ill or can temporarily make their conditions worse. because it will stimulate the body to cleanse and for those who do not regularly eat raw foods, this can stimulate extreme cleansing.. so, in their normal state, they may feel OK, but its just that their toxins are neatly tucked away.

About two ways to practice tao... I dunno, you can go either way, neither way is wrong if you know what you're doing.

5elements,

 

thanks for your take. (Been enjoying your earlier posts, by the way.)

 

I am quite familiar with this view and more than familiar with practical applications.

 

And know from extensive experience that, while nothing about your statements is "not true," nothing is "this simple" either, alas.

 

To illustrate what I mean:

 

most Native Americans were overwhelmingly environmentally clean and nontoxic for thousands of years before the continent was "discovered" by the white man --

and more of them proceeded to die of viral diseases brought by the white man than from direct assault. How come?..

 

We do indeed have viruses that live inside and get active when our immunity is weakened. This doesn't mean none exist outside and invade us on occasion. In TCM, they fall under the category of "pernicious influences." "Pernicious influences" can be "internal" or "external." In TCM, they acknowledge the primary importance of internal defenses (especially "protective qi" of which our immune system is part, but which can't be reduced to the "immune system" -- "protective qi" is comprised of a lot more, immunity and social status and psychological factors and diet and spiritual goals or their absence, and so on.) They also acknowledge the existence of "external pernicious influences" of such power and magnitude that no internal defenses are sufficient to counteract them, at least in a mere mortal. An atom bomb is an example. Some esoteric authorities assert it can disrupt even the immortal spirit, not just the mortal body.

 

Now take a "weaponized" virus, an important factor, according to some alternative historians, in what's going on with people's health today. Do we breed them inside our bodies or... ?..

 

Now take the "environmental" theory. Western medicine didn't ignore it; what is done to the environment is part of the business, because keeping everybody polluted is very lucrative. Pasteur or not, they know it very well. Pollution has global governmental blessings not because all our planet's governments are ignorant. Nah. Because they are very well-informed.

 

Now take Time. If we subscribe to the taoist view of time being nonlinear, cyclical, loopy, turnable and returnable, it becomes a matter of "when" disease-causing viruses were introduced. Are they weapons to begin with? even the ones we think of as "natural?" In taoist sorcery, one can punish ancestral spirits, no less, of people long dead -- and all their offspring seven generations into the future. What happened to all the shamans of the dead nations? Did they just turn belly up and give up? I seriously doubt it...

 

So a health problem, whether environmental or pathogenic or both, is rather likely to be neither. Is rather likely to be karmic. And a karmic disease is not going to respond to any diets. Unless suffering through the illness and the diet is exactly the intervention that is needed to disperse some of it. And that's why some will benefit, but not all, this I have seen with my own eyes... Detox, juices, energy healers, whatever -- it has to have been meant to be or else it doesn't help. Nothing helps, or everything helps, depending on the individual. I've read of a guy who cured himself of terminal lung cancer with a bottle of scotch consumed daily. The case was reported at an oncologists' conference and one of the MDs, desperate to understand how it could possibly happen, asked, "does anybody know WHICH BRAND of scotch he was drinking?.." That's western thinking for you. There's got to have been a "simple answer," an "active ingredient,' something, anything...

 

...but the truth is, the mystery is always one step ahead of the "de-mystifiers."

You make some good points, Taomeow...

I generally agree with them. In my tao training, I was taught that everything in my external environment is a product of my internal environment. So, in terms of karma and illness.. I would agree with your assertions. My point about the medical viewpoint was that even our internal bodily health is a result of our internal spiritual environment. For me, this gives me hope because if I become sick, instead of feeling like a victim to an outside virus, I can say, "oh, here's an opportunity to grow through a spiritual issue." If I choose to use diet or meditation, the end result is I am taking responsibility. I would disagree about diet being absolutely useless in karmic cases, because, changing diet can reflect a desire to take responsibility to balance the internal. This may be the stimulus to burn off the spiritual attachments that resulted in the karma to begin with. It is an external symbol that the spirit can use.. just like the guy who used alcohol to cure himself. Scotch wouldn't work for me because I have karmic attachments to alcohol in my family... Diet would probably work for me in that instance..

I was taught that there are two ways to practice Tao. One is to see ourselves as finite beings manipulating energy from outside of us. and the other is to see all of the entire universe as being within us. I think whichever way we have chosen will color our thinking about these kinds of issues. For those who have chosen the first way. There is only "one" reality. For me, there are many. and the state of my life reflects the issues I need to grow through.. whether that be illness or career or money etc...

I think this in an extremely interesting topic. One of the teachers I worked with was a master yogi, psychotherapist and traditional healer. He works with alot of different diseases and he has had tremendous success with cancer. He treats people with a combination of diet and psychological treatment. with a heavy emphasis on diet. For those interested, I suggest looking up the theories of Antoine Beauchamp.

To put it succinctly: Our modern view of illness is a product of the theories of Louis Pastuer which says that illness is a product of foreign "contaminants" which invade and infect our bodies and cause illness. So, his theory was that if you attack the foreign contaminants (symptoms), you will kill the disease. However as we can see, our modern approach of attacking symptoms rarely addresses the causes of imbalance. It often only temporarily relieves the symptoms. There was another contemporary of Pastuer named Antoine Beauchamp. Pasteur actually stole Beauchamp's work and substituted it as his own, but he mistakenly interpreted the results. Beauchamp concluded that illness is a result of the body being toxic and therefore creating a suitable environment for things like bacteria to grow. In his mind, he felt that if you kept the body clean and free of toxins, then bacteria has nothing to feed on. In the ensuing battle among the intellects of the day, Pastuer won out which is why modern western medicine works on the invader theory rather than the environment theory.

This mirrors the western religious idea of that day which says that the Devil (an outside force) tempts us away from God. Rather than the idea that we delude ourselves from within and attract negativity to us.

When a person comes to my teacher with cancer, he tells them that cancer is merely a symptom of toxicity in the body. It is actually a sign of a healthy, functioning immune system. He teaches that cancer is simply the natural effect of the body expelling excess toxins and waste. He will put them on strict regimen of raw vegetables and juicing and herbs and explore any emotional issues that may be helping to hinder the body's healing abilites. He teaches that if you reverse the toxicity, the cancer will dissappear. He has had incredible success with "fatal cases" that had been told they had little or no time left to live.

He teaches that, many of the symptoms of diseases are a result of toxins backing up in the body and in this condition, the organs responsible for excreting toxins are overloaded and they shut down, which results in debilitating symptoms. We feel sick, but the imbalance has been going on for a long time before we notice it.

There was also a man named Gunther Enderlein who took Beauchamp's theories even farther, he was able to show in his experiments that the natural helpful biological agents within the body can morph from helpful agents into disease causing agents depending on the acidity of the body. He proposed that an acidic environment encouraged the transformation of helpful microbes into bacteria then into fungi then into viruses. So, from this perspective disease comes from within.

So, for me, the idea that someone else can contaminate me with their sick energy only works if I believe that idea. If I am clean within, there is no suitable environment for any sickness to take hold and grow within me.

recent research has well documented that indulging in negative emotions and stress greatly hinders the body's ability to heal. Whereas, working through emotional issues and meditating on "good" feelings can greatly increase the body's ability to heal.

So, back to the question: The only way I can catch a cold is if my body has enough food for it to feed on. If I keep my mind and body healthy, (Depending on which theory you believe) then viruses will have no food and cannot take hold. If I believe Enderlein, then if I do get a virus, I actually created it inside of me and I am fully responsible for it to begin with.

Case in point: has anyone ever heard about certain medications which include "viral infections" as a side effect? If viruses come from outside, then how can taking a medication cause a "viral infection"? To me it seems simple, the medication is toxic and creates a suitable environment for the "viral infection" to grow from within me...

here is a good resource page

http://www.unhinderedliving.com/germtheory.html

Your reality is no different than mine or anyone elses. Just because you only choose to believe what you choose to believe doesnt mean that your reality is different. If you believe in Christ and I believe in Allah ( I dont) there is still only ONE REALITY.

I stand corrected...

Not QUITE, I lost a loved one

*a floodlight comes on* I wish you had simply stated that earlier. I just wanted to understand why you were so personally hurt... Now, I understand... I'm sorry for your loss...

"I lost my friend to Kunlun and Max so now I must destroy them!"

*lightbulb turns on* I'm sorry to hear it has broken a friendship...