fiveelementtao

I know that some people are going to get offended and say that they have all kinds of experience and Max is like a god and blah blah blah,

Some may have said these kinds of things... I have not.

 

but in reality no they dont have experience.

In their reality they do have experience, they have THEIR experience. It may be different from yours or your friends' but it is still experience and it is just as real and valid

 

As far as the final word goes, my mind is made up because the reality of it is that... If you have the power to attack psychically then it's even easier to attack "sheep" off the street.

You seem able to speak for everyone else's reality very well. That is not my reality. And "the reality of it is" that I do have some experience in this area and I can tell you that in my reality, (yours may be different) no one can heal or harm me without my cooperation. When I first began study in the Tao, I was taught that my entire life is my own creation, and I must take responsibility for it, if I want to change or improve it.

Sorry, now you are lying,

You are calling me a liar??? You can disagree with me, say I'm mistaken or ill informed, you can ask me questions, question my reasoning, but not personally attack me. Time for me to say goodbye. Happy hunting...

The proof of shocking is in how some of them move around uncontrollably after getting a transmission,

That's not accurate. I can see how someone might think that from the video. But, the movements are not uncontrollable. the person involved has complete control.

Others describe the implantation,

OK now, you are purposefully using someone's benign description out of context.

 

but there is also this: the person who lived a few hundred years ago in China, who had the same name as max now has for his Chinese name, was dangerous enough to have a warning about his reappearance passed down for hundreds of years. This person used 'otherworldly' powers to move people against their will, he used it to create puppets and to control people,

Max's name means "Pure Wind" Do have any idea how many people may have had this name over hundreds of years?

and this is what Max has said, that when someone receives a transmission from him that they are under his control.

I do not believe that Max has ever said that his students become "under his control" My friend, you are taking things out of context, twisting other peoples' quotes to serve your argument. You keep talking about proof, but you don't present any... My friend.... you are starting to sound paranoid/delusional to me. I keep getting the feeling you are projecting something from your own past on to someone else. I'm just guessing here....Does Max remind you of someone (parental figure) who harmed you?

I'm in an environment here where there are hostile and friendly forces

From what I have read, you drew first blood and brought any hostility on yourself. I feel pretty certain that those who are reacting defensively to your attacks would just as quickly turn around and treat you as a friend if you were friendly...

 

Maybe because I feel a friend was harmed and I regret my failure earlier and that hurts. I feel hurt and I want to lash out, that's all.

It felt to me like you were in pain... I'm sorry for that.... you said that you feel a friend was harmed? was an actual person that you personally know harmed by Max? Have they told you personally that they feel harmed or is it something you have determined for them? What is the exact nature of this harm?

i think this path is so great and want to share it with everyone and think everyone should do it BUT the reality of it is that we give away our own energy to aid the student

 

I admire that selfless attitude... I am also a teacher, so I understand what you're saying here. It seems to me, though, that you may also be expending a great deal of energy with your attacks against Max. Why not save your energy for yourself and your students?

 

However you say my claims are unsubstantiated, but you know, there are other people who have taken kunlun from other teachers and they have information to share, and they have shared it with me, and I can now make some comparisons between teachers, I know many teachers and I have a feeling for what is right.

In court, this would be called "hearsay evidence" and would be inadmissable. But even so, that sounds to me like that is simply their opinion. And though everyone has a right to their own opinion, there are many (seemingly more) who have a very favorable opinion of Max.

I don't understand what you stand to personally gain if you were successful in "exposing" Max? For argument's sake, let's assume you are correct in your feelings about him... There have always been unscrupulous teachers and always will be. No one is ever taken advantage of by teachers without there being some conscious or unconscious agreement. As a Taoist and a teacher, you must know this. The dance of energy is a cooperative one, whether it be with the dark or the light. (if one were to make that kind of distinction). A true Taoist must take full responsibility for all the events in their lives whether pleasant or not. It seems you are encouraging people to view themselves as victims. You must know that this is not Tao. Tao teaches us that everything in our lives is our own creation.

 

I think there is something else though that makes me like Max, I like to write in a way that confuses some people and not others, so sue me. I'm complex, get over it.

 

Ahhh, so you are a "Coyote" teacher... Wonderful! You are very lucky and so is anyone who trains with you. The Coyote teacher will give the deepest understanding to his student. He may even seem "evil" to those he teaches... Then you, of all people, know that, ultimately, there is no such thing as "evil." All coyotes know that "evil" is simply a mask to expose the unconscious "darkness" in us all. I find it interesting, that you say Max is more powerful than you... I know for a fact that he would disagree. He would tell you that he is no more powerful than you or anyone. he would tell you that "power" is an illusion.. I also find it interesting that you compare yourself to him saying you are like him. This indicates to me that I was correct in assuming that you actually admire him and want to be like him. This makes sense to me since you are both Coyote teachers. You must resonate with him energetically... I am going out on a limb here, just my opinion...but... maybe your fear of Max is your own unconscious fear of what you are capable of becoming. Maybe you are destined to be as "powerful" as you believe Max to be....

 

OK, I feel better now. I think I understand. If you truly are a sorcerer and can see into peoples' souls, you will know that I have nothing but respect and kindness in my heart toward you and that my words are sincere.. I believe that when you fully embrace your "Coyote-ness" Your students will be very lucky to find you and study with you...

 

my .02

all i have to add to this thread is

 

who cares if he advertises?

 

 

Advertise all you want, I just find it... unproductive if the way one advertises is mainly through defaming another teacher without substantiation. Maybe he has advertised on other posts I haven't read. But, what I've read so far has looked like. "Max is evil. I'm a master sorcerer, train with me.."

If you are a psychiatrist or psychologist I think I'd get my money back from whatever school you got your degree from. You say you arent one to preemptively attack but you kill that statement by striking out at SJ. In regards to your experience...obviously you have none. I'm going to restate what you said ok but in a different way

In my experience no one can punch you in the face without their permission (conscious or unconscious). You have alluded to wanting to avoid "punches to the face" from others. A master fighter or practitioner doesnt fear this.

The same thing applies tp psychic attacks. If you arent strong enough to defend it, you get hurt. Even a badass like Chuck Liddell has his day

 

 

You make some good points, MPWay. and Stigweard, I now stand corrected on the etymilogical definition of sorcery. It is not my intention to personally attack SJumper. I'm not attacking his Tai Chi or Chi Kung or any of his training or lineage. I'm not even judging his ability to teach "sorcery".

What I should have said was I don't "usually" preemptively attack someone. But, I've been reading SJumper attack Max and his students mercilessly and without any substantiation page after page. If he had personally met Max or trained with him and had a personal experience, I would stay out of it, because then at least he would have an opinion based on some personal knowledge. So, I am simply sharing my reaction as I watch this. MPWay, If you are so offended by my observations on SJumper, and feel that I have unjustly attacked him, why then are you not as EQUALLY offended at his blatant smearing of Max and the kunluners?. You wasted no time in pouncing on me and personally attacking me for sharing my observations of SJumper. (which was considerably kinder than his judgements of Max.) I haven't searched the taobums for any responses from you but, have you done the same with him?

Chuck Lidell did certainly have his day, but he had to make the choice to step in that ring.

In regards to your experience...obviously you have none.

Since you have made up your mind about that... I guess I'll let you have the final word there.

I will write some truth now, naked truth. Which... also refers to the path of the sorcerer.

 

Starjumper, you may want to reconsider defining yourself as a "sorcerer". here is the dictionary definition of sorcerer

 

Sorcerer: One who practices Sorcery. - Sorcery: the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining :

 

It comes across as somewhat ironic to me that you mercilessly judge Max as being sinister and evil and talk of him "poisoning" people and this "kunlun worm" acting like an energetic parasite, yet you classify yourself as a "sorcerer" and are actively seeking disciples of your own...

 

I'm not one to preemptively strike at others, but I have been reading you personally attack Max ( and by extension, his students) for many pages here, and so far, all of your attacks only seem to bring negative attention to you. You sound to me like you are competing with him. this type of competition for attention is not usually attributed to master wizards or sorcerers such as yourself.

 

In terms of energetic attacks, In my experience no one can poison another's energy without their permission (conscious or unconscious). You have alluded to wanting to avoid "Psychic attack" from others. A master sorcerer or wizard doesn't fear this.

 

It feels to me like you would like to have what you see Max as having (students who admire and respect him), so instead of being able to get it yourself, you attack the one whom you wish you could be like. I think in psychological circles, they call this "projection" All in all, based on what I've read (and felt) in your comments, It makes me want to ask... Has someone hurt you?...

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He posted this on page 2 for those who missed it:

 

That answers my questions... and then some...

Don't forget what my path is. I've seen his soul.

 

What is your path?

 

How exactly did you "see his soul." and what exactly did you see?

 

Respectfully curious...

Hello my friend. Craig here. The guy wearing the colorful headband :-), in case your memory is already failing you.

 

Hi Craig, I recognize you from your picture...

Is the Three Ones mentioned, is the same as the practice of the Gold Flower?

 

No, it is a different meditation. However, there are numerous exercises which contain the phrase or concept of "Three Ones". So, if someone were to ask me "do you know the method of the three ones?", I would say "Which one? They are all about the three ones."

 

The three ones book I mentioned is great reading. But the techniques laid out are in coded form. The scriptures that are being analyzed by these intellectual scholars have fail-safes embedded in them. It is written in coded language, so that the uninitiated would not be able to decipher them without help. There is absolutely no way that anyone can get anything other than an intellectual understanding of the practices by reading the scriptures without a qualified teacher to explain the hidden coded meaning.

I will get the book, but: what makes you think Isabelle Robinet, Julian Pas, and Norman Girardot have any clue about Shangching Pai? Maybe there are deeper things that these people weren't exposed to...like they got the beginner's/outsider's view?

 

Hey Scotty, There are two other scholarly books that YM did not mention which I recommend to any interested. (I myself read them while on the toilet.): "The Method of Holding the Three Ones" By Poul Anderson and "The Way of Great Clarity" by James Miller.

please feel free to ramble, I like it! Actually I'm going to ramble back, now.

Formyself, I got the head back and open mouth and no breathing thing, on the one workshop with Max, and in daily practice I get a lot of no breathing, flung backward, position which feels to me like packing is going on in in the central channel, but I dont get a ton of bliss,

 

cat, I had similar experiences. I get a very nice "clean" feeling and a calm "content" feeling after KL. (my opinion coming here..) I think the dramatic emotional and physical responses to KL (i.e coughing, laughing, crying etc..) is a result of the energy cleaning out emotional blockages and attachments. I think I heard Max say as much a few times in the workshop. So, I took that to mean that I may have already worked through alot of personal stuff. So, for me, I actually took it to be a good sign that there were the signature physical responses but not alot of emotional ones.

So you are a student of Andrew Lum but dont know what he teachers?

 

I am not a student of Sifu Lum's. I am a student of one of his closed door students. So, I do not know everything he teaches.

5ELEMENTS,

 

I think i have Andrew lum on video doing Tao Ga forms and yes the Lees use the name Fut gar!

 

8 poisions form etc did you learn that also are you chinese or gwai lo?

 

Ape

 

I'm not familiar with 8 poisons form. I am Human.

I am absolutely amazed at seeing how much you all have no clue about Maoshan Shangqing Pai and take some popular martial arts and dragon dance kind of stuff for 'esoteric daoism' <sic>.

 

Impressive, really impressive, but in a negative way

 

YM

 

YM, I'm surprised at you. Of course there is no Magic anymore! I can't believe you took us seriously! LOL This is just an inside joke between friends. We post this stuff about magic for fun. It's sort of like playing dungeons and dragons. We're PRETENDING. I get a kick out of watching people get upset when they think we are being serious. I'm sorry. I thought everyone on the taobums knew about the game. You're welcome to play along if you want. You can be Merlin the Magician or Gandalf the Wizard or even Darth Vader. Sorry about the confusion. The real historical magic disappeared in the middle ages. Anybody who claims to practice magic is either lying or is deluded.

Is the Tao Gar forms (fighting forms from Master Lum) like long external and internal movements similar to Hung Fut or Fut Gar?

 

Actually Spirit Ape, now that I think about it there ARE other forms of Tao Ga. Arthur Lee was taught a modified form of Tao Ga by Lum Tai Young. He calls it Shao Lin Fut Ga, It is not Shao Lin of course, but that's because Lum Tai young told him it was Shao Lin in order to hide the original heritage. And I also heard of another teacher in Hong Kong who teaches an art he calls Tao Ga. I have no idea if it is related to Lum's Tao Ga.

Is the Tao Gar forms (fighting forms from Master Lum) like long external and internal movements similar to Hung Fut or Fut Gar?

 

I am not familiar with those disciplines so I cannot say. Lum Tai Young taught many different versions of Tao Ga to different people (As does Andrew Lum). I have seen forms that are very physical and other versions that look more like a shamanic dance. And even within the same forms there are different schools. I know of Monkey king style and Kwan Yin style. I was taught Kwan Yin style. So, depending on who was taught what, the same form could look completely different. But, to casual the observer, yes the Tao Ga forms look similar to other internal Martial Arts forms.

Is there only one Tao Ga system in hawaaii?

 

No there is at least one other system taught by another student of Lum sifu... But it is a closed door class.