fiveelementtao

I had been introduced to the standing jongs before but not Golden flower

Tao Ga is Lum family martial arts that are based on "other" practices...

Awesome review.

 

Yes, the feeling of being "plugged in" rather than building up energy seems to be a trademark of Max's system.

 

How about the 5 element standing and Gold Flower mudra? Had you seen those before?

 

Cam

I had been introduced to the standing jongs before but not Golden flower

A question that may be unanswerable.. what do you think happens to the awakened kundalini when you practise a downward flow?

A very good question, Cat! The short version: "I don't know."

The long version: (My opinion only) I have only recently begun making a determined effort to make a distinction between the energies. I can definitely tell you that kundalini is NOT a chi type of energy. Kundalini seems to be most connected to the aspect of personality development. To me, that corresponds to the "something" aspect of the equation. In order to have a human personality one must identify with being "something". The MS stuff seems to bypass that altogether and go straight to "nothingness" (but the human personality can tag along if it wants to and has the strength.)

My experience with the "other" energy is that it greatly amplifies whatever energy you are working with. That is why I stopped mixing sanskrit Mantra with Tao Ga. This may also be why Max teaches RP before kunlun. It probably amplifies the power of kunlun to help facilitate transmission. ( I have no idea, I'm just guessing).

My theory as to why most arts start by being "something" is that this is for protection. The advanced "other" stuff has the potential to be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Simply because it is not necessary to go through all the emotional and psychological barriers to energetic power. Whereas to make any real energetic progress with yoga, one must face their psychological issues and reduce their personality attachments before the energy flows. This is not the case with MS. MS (in my experience) however will shatter conventional reality. The issue here is that one must have a very strong constitution or they will crap their energetic pants. Most people fail on the M S path not because it is too hard. No, it is actually a very simple path. People fail because it is too frightening. This may be another reason why Max chooses to merge kunlun (bliss) with MS (reality busting). ( again, I'm just guessing here, I can't speak for Max)

So, to finally answer your question, I think that the kundalini may be awakened through practices like Kunlun but that it is a secondary side effect. However, I don't know. Kundalini is definitely a "human" energy and M S is not. (I'm too young on the kunlun path to make an accurate assessment other than it feels good )

Sorry for rambling....

So, I went to the Kunlun seminar in Portland. I had posted some questions on this forum before. I shared that I was also a Tao practitioner in the same lineage as Max and a couple of you asked me to share my experience of Max and kunlun. So here goes...

First, let me say that Max was very kind to me and seemed genuinely happy to meet a fellow brother in the Lum lineage. He made me feel like an honored guest.

I did not go there to test him as I knew I would know very quickly if he had in fact learned anything of any significance from the Sifu. I can confirm that Max did learn from Lum Sifu. The techniques that he taught had the same energetic "signature" as the other stuff I have learned. As it turns out, My body had already started to do RP as a result of my training. It felt alot like coming home...

As I said, I did not go there to test him. I was only there to learn internal/meditative techniques from my tradition that my teachers did not have. However, Max did show me some Tao Ga techniques and I was able to feel some significant Tao Ga power in his strikes. The Tao Ga energy is very unique so I would have been able to detect if he did not have this energy. So, I can also confirm that he has also trained in the Lum family martial arts. I was happily surprised to learn some Tao Ga techniques from him (some that I had not learned before) and are now in my repertoire of techniques

About Kunlun... Kunlun is a different energy . But they can be used together well. I found that the Kunlun energy and transmission is as people have described. Although, the spontaneous movements can look like people are being possessed or controlled, I found that, actually, it is a cooperative type of energy. Max performed one of the Kunlun "Magic" techniques on me. and I found exactly as people have already said, If I was open to the experience, Max was able to influence me. But, I definitely had my own will and I found that if I chose to resist, I could. Max does have a transmission power. But, I also found that he was gentle with it.

Other confirmations.

I was taught by my teachers that our Tao was different than most other Tao disciplines. My teachers taught me that our practice goes "from Nothing to Something to Nothing" and most other traditions go "from something to nothing to something" I did not understand this for a long time. I experimented with other taoist disciplines such as Chi Kung, taoist visualization methods, mantak chia, etc... Some I liked, but the energy was different and was not a "tight Fit". I also practiced Kundalini Yoga and Sanskrit mantra for many years, but I have found that they do not fit together with my stuff well. When I do kundalini raising stuff, I get a headache.

So, here is my conclusion... "Something to Nothing to something" refers to rising energy like kundalini. The root chakra is manifestation "something" the crown opening is "nothing" (Union, samadhi, shivashakti etc..) and returning to the Root chakra is "something" again.

Kunlun is descending, so you start at the crown (nothing) etc.. Also the kunlun philosophy is that you start at an understanding you are already "God" (nothing). some other types of energy work, like some forms of Chi Kung, pull energy from outside of the body and store it and you build up more and more of this energy. In my training, the exercises merely awaken dormant energy centers within the body and you are "plugged in" and the energy simply flows through you. Kunlun seems to be similar.

Please be aware that I am not making value judgements on different traditions or techniques. I don't believe there is a "best" or "Right" path. I'm just simply verbalizing the conclusions I have come to. In terms of "enlightenment" my personal view is that all energetic disciplines and techniques are merely tools. They can certainly help on the road to enlightenment, but are not necessary. (and in some cases are a hindrance) So, when it comes to enlightenment, IMHO nothing is more enlightened than the person who simply loves others and themselves as best they can. Any energetic accomplishments are simply icing on the cake. (my .02 about that)

So, in summation, I would say that I thoroughly enjoyed my kunlun experience and I am looking forward to learning more from Max in the future. I recommend kunlun to anyone curious about it. However, It's not for everyone. It may be too intense for some as many people there had some powerful emotional and physical experiences. I would also recommend that you give yourself a day or two afterward to rest. and also drink PLENTY of water during and afterward. I think I lost about 5 pounds this past weekend and I find I have to remind myself to eat lately. I would also caution people to be very respectful of Red Pheonix. It is deceptively powerful. All of those "other" practices should NEVER be abused. There IS a backlash and there are immortals watching and keeping tabs on how this stuff is used. (Don't ask me how I know) Practice it with respect!!!

Lastly, I want to say that Max's staff were especially kind and friendly to me. It really opened my heart to the whole process.

Thanks to Max, Chris, Kan, Diana and all the rest (whose names escape me) for a great weekend.

I had recently heard an interesting parallel of Jesus and Krishna. Certainly Jesus can be viewed as an avatar of Vishnu. But, the virgin birth, the evil king killing babies in order to destroy the child foretold in prophecy etc... are similar story lines shared by each. Kinda makes one wonder if Vishnu suits up in this same drama for different cultures....

Apepch7,

 

Thanks for the info, that was way awesome!!! I pride myself in being a serious Google God, but it's very humbling for me to see how hard it is to get even a rudimentary understanding on this front. Muppet Labs owes you one!

 

The whole Christian approach of sacrificing God's life to purge sin and create a fresh new start for the world with the discovery of the resurrection by Mary M. seems paralleled to the Osiris story at least at first glance.

 

Is there any sacrificing-to-purge-sin in the Egyptian Religion? Is there any notion of sin? I'm also really curious about the concept of heaven and hell and afterlife in Egypt. Thanks for any additional thoughts!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

Thanks, Chris. See you there!

Sure he will talk with you, but if your intention isn't right he'll teach you nothing. Be sure you are cool.

 

Just tug his sleeve during a break.

 

See you there,

 

Chris

OK some Kunlun questions.

Mantra, I'm hoping you will read this...

2ndly,

Unfortunately, I do not have access to Sifu Lum because of old school traditional protocol. So, I cannot ask him for other meditations for the Tao Ga practices.

I plan on going to Portland in October for the kunlun seminar but I am also hoping that I can ask Sifu Max some questions.

from your experiences, What is the likelihood that Max will allow me to chat with him ? He may be the only person besides Sifu Lum that can help me.

Thanks,

Shabd

I agree with others that the non stop slew of Kunlun threads is getting a little silly. Probably for those not into the Kunlun practice it get's tiresome. I mean, I practice Kunlun and I can see that!

 

So, until Mantra68 gives the Kunlun Discussion the green light(which I am guessing should be soon) my suggestion is to have one thread where people can ask all the Kunlun questions they want. It will make it easier on others and also simple to navigate for those who want the latest Kunlun question for the day that has probably already been answered about 100 times if you do a search

 

Cam

It depends on what you want to achieve.

(if you are trying to live a life full of egoless happiness, health, wealth, truth, respect and bliss.) All of those things can be accomplished without being a taoist. So, what's the real issue? If you want real power in internal martial arts or in internal alchemy, at some point males will need to practice celibacy for a time. But, there are many ways to conserve jing and still enjoy sex and even have orgasms.

(John Chang had a family and children.

Lu Zijian had children.

Li Ching-Yun had tons of children over the span of his minimally 170 year old life.)

Yes, but I am quite sure that each of them practiced celibacy for some period (s) during their lifetime.

This sounds like a moral dilemma for you. If you're just looking to enjoy life and be at peace, why even bother with torturing yourself. If you're trying to be the next John Chang, you will have to be celibate for some period in time. If you just want to live a taoist philosophy, then do what is natural for YOU.

it seems like a person can have sex, and still have a very resourceful energy body. Is jing preservation only necessary for the alchemical practices of transforming jing to qi to shen? It just seems to me it'd only be necessary if you are trying to reach total nirvana, and unnecessary if you are trying to live a life full of egoless happiness, health, wealth, truth, respect and bliss.

 

John Chang had a family and children.

Lu Zijian had children.

Li Ching-Yun had tons of children over the span of his minimally 170 year old life.

 

what do you all think?

i was wondering if there are in fact any teachers that are members of this site. i was wondering if it would be to much to ask if someone could teach me everything there is to know about taoism and buddhism if possible. Thanks in advance

Well Genuine,

That's quite a tall order. Taoism and Buddhism are two distinct philosophies. It would be pert near impossible to learn "everything there is to know" just about one of these traditions not to mention everything about both. Just to learn everything there is to about Taoism would not be possible. Within Taoism are many different and sometimes conflicting sects and practices. Same is true for Buddhism. If you are looking for intellectual knowledge, there are alot of books out there. But, I suspect you may have a slight misunderstanding of the purposes of both Taoism and Buddhism. These are fundamentally an experiential wisdom. So, I would recommend picking one tradition and then finding a practice within that tradition. And unfortunately the best way to learn is to focus on one practice for many years. so, just pick a practice and a teacher that speaks to you and go from there. Then the journey only begins. on the other hand, there is the scholarly/Intellectual approach. With that you can study the intellectual philosophies of both and get a pretty good overall understanding. But, I believe that people who take this approach are really missing the point. For me, Taoism starts with the energetic practice, once progress is made there, then the intellectual understandings begin to come. But, for me, the intellectual ideas without the energetic experience is useless. Eastern buddhism already has alot of Taoist principles infused in it, but taoism doesn't necessarily have buddhist ideas. So, I guess if you wanted the best of both worlds, I would try an eastern buddhist practice like Zen or Shaolin buddhism, because eventually some taoism will seep in. By the way, if you are able to learn EVERYTHING there is to know about either one of these traditions in one lifetime, I think you will be the first to do so.

my .02

The golden flower meditation in max's latest book is from Andrew Lum. If Max has another golden flower meditation, I don't know about that. I am only familiar with his latest book. I'm trying to find out exactly what he knows from Andrew Lum. I'm trying to fill in the gaps in my own Mao Shan training.

Well i read that Max's golden flower is an eygptian practice unless Mr Lum also does that? I did read that Red phoenix and 5 elements was from Lum.

(do you know if it has all the 5 element standing and golden flower?)

I doubt it SpiritApe. The 5 element postures and golden flower meditations are from Andrew Lum.

Hello

 

Ok, just saw this on event news and looks like Max's teacher Sifu Jenny Lamb is holding the spontaneous Qi Kung that Max is doing seminars on, do you know if it has all the 5 element standing and golden flower?

 

Is anyone going, would be good to see Max's Master explain it and teach it?

 

Spirit Ape

ZI FUNG GONG SPONTANEOUS ADJUSTMENT QIGONG LEVEL 1 WITH SIFU JENNY LAMB

Program:

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb will be teaching:

 

*Detailed instruction in Spontaneous Qi Gong level 1 Form,

*Exercises to assist with opening the channels,

*Origins of Zi Fung Gong

*Cultivation Guidelines

Location:

7 Stars Tai Chi Club (Montreal, Canada) featuring the Holy Sacred Mount Royal Power Spot of Grail Bloodline Fame.

 

Date:

Oct. 7, 2008 to Oct. 9, 2008

 

Schedule:

 

Friday: 7:30 -9pm

 

Weekend:

 

9am-12pm, lunch break, 1pm-4pm )

 

contact

 

If you need more information, please contact : [email protected]

or PM me.

 

Hi Taomeow,

 

Taomeow,

 

just looking at the recent posts about 'Maoshan' master Lam I stumbled upon this message from Chris, who should know more about max then yourself I guess, which do not really agree with what you say above.

 

Any opinion ?

 

YM

Try Taoist institute of North Hollywood

Hi,

I'm new here. They tell me I have to post an intro in order to post. So, here goes:

I have been practicing Tao Ga Kung Fu for 15 years. I also practice Kundalini Yoga and meditation as well as West African Shamanic Drumming.

I found this while investigating Kunlun.