fiveelementtao

Cihan, My brother,

Please forgive my misunderstanding. I remember you now. My previous suggestions were under the assumption that you were in the US or Europe. There are many teachers in those places. People in the US have no real excuse for not finding a teacher. Your situation is different.

 

However, I will share with you a shamanic truth as I understand it:

 

Your greatest weakness is your greatest strength

Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness

 

You are in a very auspicious circumstance because you can study the "tourist" versions of these dances and then ask the gods to help you reconstruct them. Perhaps you can find someone to teach you the dance even if they do not completely understand it themselves. I wish that Teutonic Shamanic dances and songs still existed. They do not. So, you do have a tremendous opportunity!

 

So, instead of seeing yourself as someone without local teachers, may I suggest that you see yourself as someone who can reconstruct the internal meaning behind these customs you have access to.

 

Now that I have a better remembrance of your situation, I take back some of what I said. The fact that you had an injury from a spirit snake, that indicates that you ARE called to be a shaman. The average person would not have had that kind of reaction. So, that means that for you it is real. Since it is not feesible for you to find a local shamn to learn from. I suggest that you keep trying. But, yes, please do rituals and prayers first.

Perhaps do some fasting and prayer. Light a candle and ask your ancestors, (Those from your past who practiced shamanism before the current religion outlawed it) ask them to teach you directly and if it is your destiny, they will. If you read my book, you know that I had many doors close on me until I asked my ancestors to teach me directly and they did.

 

Perhaps your situation is similar. Perhaps you are called to reconstruct your ancestral shamanic path as I am doing with my ancestral Teutonic path.

 

If you are from Anatolia, you must have some Indo-European ancestral connections either through blood or culture/language. I am about to begin sharing some of my understandings from an Indo-European perspective. Keep an eye out for it. Maybe it will connect some things for you or kick start some understandings.

 

In any case, I support you in your solo efforts. Study these remaining practices in your country and meditate on them and ask your ancestors to teach you...

 

Please keep in touch and let me know how it goes,

Mike

Why do you need a "guru"? Why not just start with any teacher that knows more than you. start with any class of yoga, meditation, qigong etc... with other people that teaches something that you are curious about. Getting out and being with others in a group setting is a great way to work on your communication skills and work through your isolation issues...

 

Perhaps just seeking to be a more functional human is an option.

 

Setting your sights on a guru is a great way to give yourself more excuses to stay isolated. True gurus are hard to find and traveling costs money. So, therefore just stay home and read more books... Right? Wrong. I'm sure there are inexpensive classes in your city and affordable counseling in your city.

Start with that and the means and opportunities for greater things may manifest. And who knows? you may find that you don't need a guru or to travel after all. Maybe just someone with more experience than you is all you need right now Sometimes what we need is right under our nose. But, we have to start looking first...

 

IME, taking action is the best way to kick start the Universe into giving you what you really want. Taking any class with an imperfect human even if it is not the practice or teacher that you ultimately stick with is one way to show the Universe through your actions that you are serious about change. As others have stated, reading books by yourself sometimes only traps us in our intellect and makes our issues more entrenched... Getting out and meeting people while scary is a great way to strengthen the spirit to begin overcoming our own self imposed limitations.

Progress not perfection...

my .02

good luck in your search...

Mike

Perhaps light eating is OK. I wouldn't eat a huge meal right before or after. But other than that, there is no serious requirement.

 

A curious question about this particular style, a lot of Qigong styles say not to eat within 30 minutes to an hour of practicing a Qigong form... Does your Celestial Nei Kung have a similar requirement?

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

Hi Cian,

Yes, As I said, I'm aware you weren't referring to using power plants, but it was a good opportunity to explore traditional shamanism. Thanks for your clarification...

I wasn't trying to dissuade you from journeying. But rather trying to encourage you to make a deeper commitment by seeking out instruction from a live teacher.

I don't know where you live but perhaps you could seek out instruction from practicing shamans who focus on journeying. Michael Harner's group focuses on this. Perhaps they could help you

http://www.shamanism.org/workshops/index.php

 

Connecting with others in person I find is very encouraging whereas being a solitary seeker can be sometimes discouraging...

In any case, good luck with your practices. Keep it up and let us know about your progress. you can also join the thunderwizard discussion group.

Blessings,

Mike

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Than you for your insight, opinions and additional info.

 

I never used any kind of power plant, and am very respectful to the traditional way and the spirit world. When visions started to come , I just wanted to experience this new world of manifestation, like a new born trying to figure out this new wonderful dimension appearing automatically after a certain time of Qigong practice.

 

I am still very blind and probably not worthy/needing extra spiritual help or task. I don't have a strong motive for being a shaman. But it feels wonderful to live through all levels of manifestation available to my current configuration, and I cannot help not living it and feeling joy.

 

Will keep in mind all your very valuable information and opinion and go on exploring with the help of these, trying not to offend any beings, teachings or traditions.

 

Thanks again,

 

Cihan

in the vid they say that okinawan karate if the mother of all martial arts.

 

Not even close... Karate means "Chinese Hand" because the Okinawans learned Chinese hard style Kung Fu from Chinese sailors. Kara = Chinese Te = Hand/ During WWII the Japanese renamed it Open hand Kara (different kanji but same sound)+ Te Hand.

 

Karate is actually an Okinawan version of Kenpo or Chuan Fa - hard style Chinese Kung Fu...

First, Let me say, I sympathize with you and congratulate your courage to share your feelings.. I went through similar experiences myself in the quest for spiritual growth...

 

Having said that, I also believe that you are not alone in your understanding of consciousness/enlightenment and whatnot...

 

By his grace I had awakened to pure consciousness

 

By HIS grace? Really? Any true teacher will never take responsibility for their student's progress nor will they allow their student to infer it upon them. If this man was allowing you to believe that he was the source of your spiritual accomplishments, I suggest that he either was ill informed of the nature of consciousness or he was outright misleading you... In any case, it was harmful to your progress to believe that anyone other than you is responsible for your spiritual growth...

 

In light of your statement that you "had awakened to pure consciousness" I would suggest that perhaps your definition of pure consciousness may be limited... dare I say, perhaps even inaccurate?

 

If your consciousness was pure meaning complete, you would also have had total awareness of your physical needs which includes money etc... If as you say, you were unaware of your physical, mundane existence, then is it really awareness/consciousness/enlightenment?

 

IME, and IMO, many young seekers are mistaking energy experiences, states of mind etc... for enlightenment... I also have observed that IMO, many who seek what they term as enlightenment is really escape from painful emotions. True enlightenment includes facing one's emotional pain, not escaping it...

 

It also underscores the Western complete misunderstanding of enlightenment as a fixed state that once it has been achieved never changes...

 

True spiritual accomplishment is accompanied by balance in one's internal AND external state.

 

Anyway... perhaps I have not helped you. But, I think maybe a rethinking of what consciousness is and enlightnment is may be helpful. But, I do encourage you to keep talking and working through your feelings...

 

For myself, I no longer believe in enlightenment as a fixed endpoint. My experience has confirmed that enlightenment is a process that does not end, not even after death. The gods themselves are still learning and growing... We are no different in that regard. At least, IMO...

 

But this is only my limited opinion based on my limited experience...others may feel differently based on their experience...

 

In any case... Good luck,

Mike

Hi Cihan,

I will share with you my opinion based on my experiences. Someone else may have a different opinion based on their experience.

 

IME, There is a lot of confusion out there regarding "Shamanism." Modern neo-shamanism is seen mainly as "journeying" as well as ingesting of "Power Plants." (You, Cihan did not mention using power plants, so I am not referring to you personally, but it is an important subject.) In reality Shamanism is much, much more than these two things. For instance, Taoist energy work is shamanic in nature. Any religion or spiritual practice that results in direct experience of spirit or power is shamanic in nature. A true shaman is someone who acts as a conduit between the spiritual and the physical world. There are many ways to do this. Journeys can be dangerous without proper training and ritual. IMO, Power plants should never be ingested unless prescribed and supervised by a master shaman who comes from a culture and tradition of using power plants. (most traditions have moved beyond using intoxicants.) In fact, if power plants are misused, they will have the opposite effect of deadening the senses and weakening the nervous system, not to mention the very real possibility of insanity and addiction. Traditionally, power plants are only used when a master shaman has determined that it is necessary to open someone's aura. After the initial use, power plants are rarely if ever used again. Many times, the shaman will not allow someone to use plants at all because they can foresee it is too dangerous. There is a reason why most taoist masters and yogic masters do not use power plants at all. This is because it is in fact unnecessary. Higher level internal alchemy opens up the energy centers much more efficiently than external intoxicants. Vedic Yoga masters originally used a concoction of power plant extracts they called soma. But now they have realized that the true soma is secreted by the pituitary gland after years of internal alchemy.

as I have on my website here. http://www.thunderwizard.com/page40/page42/alchemy.html

 

A traditional shaman is a priest, healer, counselor, energy worker and psychiatrist. So, Thank you for sharing your experiences with journeying. Traditionally journeys should not be undertaken without first gaining help from spirit guides and protectors. And journeys should not be undertaken without a clear objective. Many people nowadays view shamanic journeying as a form of entertainment and as you have learned, true journeying is serious stuff and should not be attempted without proper training and a clear objective.

 

If you are serious about journeying, I recommend three things: 1) Find your spiritual guides and protectors FIRST through ritual and prayer. 2) Only journey when you have a clear objective as to the reason why you are journeying (either to heal someone or gain knowledge to share with others for their spiritual well being.)and 3) get some live training in journeying from a practicing shaman.

 

I myself only undertake journeys when I need special information from deities or spirit helpers or to help with healing or spiritual cleansings or to solve a problem. Outside of that, I do not journey...I want to respect the power of the journey... If you can, I would suggest training in person with a practicing shaman who can teach you how to journey properly and without injury. training in person with a shaman also allows for initiation into their lineage which will give you the power and protection of their lineage masters. This is another aspect to traditional shamanism that has been forgotten by modern neo shamanism.

 

 

In terms of a proper ritual. That is possible. I do teach some rituals in Teutonic Shamanism online that can be helpful in gaining protection and guidance.

 

If you believe you have been called to shamanic service through journeying, seek out a teacher. If you are not sure, there are still many facets of shamanism that can be safely practiced without undertaking journeys.

 

That is my opinion. I hope it helps. Thanks for the questions,

Mike

 

 

 

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Thank you very much for the clarification and extra info on Heaven and Earth Qigong.

 

I was raised in a culture where all spiritual rituals other than the religion you are born into were forbidden and considered a very serious sin, so I was not comfortable with the idea of cleansing & opening up by any of the rituals I came across the internet and as well as the one what you are teaching in your Teutonic Shamanism site , and tried a few "journeys" without a prior ritual, and got bitten by a snake in my last journey and my left leg got swollen & looked like a delicious sausage for a week afterwards Well, I got my warning and lesson, and stopped journeying for a while, until -and if- everything returns to normal back again.

 

Will try to do the "journeying "again after I become to be able to do Heaven & Earth for 9 times with comfort and the energy gathering exercise (confirmed now to be a good tool for cleansing and charging up) and acquire my "Javelins" to be used in the journey if necessary.

 

Do you think these two exercises can at least help protect me from a more serious calamity without a "proper" ritual ? I am very blind on this subject and threading the hard and long path with no visuals, figuring out only after an experience

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much again for your support,

 

Cihan

Thanks for sharing your experiences Cihan,

Energy Gathering is derived from the warrior shaman arts so it makes sense that you would experience feeling like a spiritual protector while doing the exercise. It is a very powerful way to strengthen the aura and cleanse a space. It will dynamically charge the aura and heighten your vibration. Your description of your visual experiences is very beautiful and inspiring.

 

It is perfectly OK to do the Heaven Earth Qigong while standing. I sometimes will do it standing starting facing North and then I will move clockwise after each repetition until I have faced all eight directions and am facing North again. In other words, I start the first repetition facing North, then move to the Northeast and do a round, then to the East etc.. until I have come around to the North again and then do one last rep facing North for a total of 9.

I support you in only doing as many repetitions as you are comfortable with. No point in overdoing anything.

 

For clarification...The Heaven Earth Qigong meditation is opening up and purifying the body in nine stages starting with the feet and ending with the head. The first three rounds clear the legs, the second three clear the torso and the last three clear the head up to the crown. It is not necessary to know that or visualize that, but that is what is happening. So, if you are only comfortable with 6 rounds, then that means that your body wants to clear out the legs and torso and is not quite ready to energize the head. That is OK. No need to overdo it or rush anything... Regardless of how many reps you do always close with the Earth Breath meditation to ground the energies.

 

Thanks again,

Mike

 

Dear 5ET,

 

I've been attracted to practicing especially 2 meditations from your Celestial Neigong CDs for about 3 months now,

 

- Energy Gathering form turned out to be a very nice long meditation, I feel a lot of energy and emanating light from my fists when doing it . Visions started to come about a month ago ,I felt a pair of large wings at my upper back and literally saw 2 javelins made of bright blue light in my hands resting against the ground.I was like a giant butterfly guardian of some sort guarding or watching over something in the standing position. No other standing meditation switched my mode of consciousness after a such a short practicing span, this form became a powerful tool for me to step into shamanism.

 

- Is it OK to do the sky & earth meditation in standing pose and then sit and continue to meditate? Although I sit correct, when I do it standing the energy comes and feels much more "clean" and "friendly". I cannot do more than 6 rounds because of the amount of energy, but I feel very good with what comes during this meditation.

 

Just wanted to share my experiences, and thank you for your guidance

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

 

Cihan

According to Teutonic Mythology, the Thunder god Thor needs 3 magical items made by the dwarves in order to create lightning and thunder:

1) Meginjord (Power Belt) which doubles his strength

This is the power of the kidneys and navel center to create and store Chi.

 

2) Jarngreiper (Iron Grippers) iron gloves. Iron is a conductor for electricity, so this is saying that Thor needs to open the energy gates in his hands in order to pick up his "hammer." (lightning and thunder)

 

3) Mjollnir (Pulverizer) his hammer which is itself the power of thunder and lightning. The name pulverizer indicates that Thor is dynamically combining the powers of yin and yang in order to create the power of lightning.

 

As those of us who have studied Taoist energy work, we can clearly see that this myth is talking about how to create chi energy in the lower dan tien (power belt) and transmit Chi energy through the hands (iron gloves) and dynamically combine yin and yang (mjollnir) to create the power of lightning . This indicates to me that there is eveidence from the Teutonic myths that the pre-christian Europeans did have an understanding of high level energy work and recorded this understanding through oral tradition and stories...

 

 

I am finishing up an manual for the online Teutonic shamanism course on the website. If anyone is interested in getting a copy, email me with "shamanism manual" in the headline and I will notify when it is ready for download...

But do I need to slap a label on it? Shaman? Enlightened being? Something else? Does it matter?

 

No. But you placed the shaman label on yourself with your original question concerning shamanic initiation and whether or not it applied to your circumstances. I think you got some good answers and based on your replies you may well be a shaman, but I must also say that in light of this response, I still think it is a good idea to examine your feelings and looking for ways that you have created your own environment....

my.02

Just how big is this system? If you don't mind my asking...

To answer your question more concretely... I am in the process of synthesizing what would traditionally be understood as a complete tradition. Most energy practices taught today were originally parts of larger spiritual disciplines...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4paWLbxgMM

My comments were not meant to dissuade you from pursuing a path of shamanism, but merely to point out that the feelings you mention are not by themselves indicators of shamanic initiation.

 

The initiation that people are referring to is done by the spirits, not by other people. A shaman must first of all have an unshakeable will. Many many people have feelings like you have shared. That does not indicate they are shamans. If you are truly serious about becoming a shaman, it is in your best interest and the interest of those you will serve to investigate the source of your feelings of victimization. Come to think of it, that is true even if you are not a shaman.

 

While I sympathize and relate to your feelings as probably we all do to some degree. Allowing yourself to feel victimized will hinder your spiritual progress.

 

One major teaching of shamanic work is to understand that our external lives are merely projections of our inner reality. If a shaman is experiencing the situations you describe, they asks themselves "Why am I attracting this to myself?"

 

A shaman is first and foremost a spiritual warrior who is ruthless with themselves...

 

If you think you are a shaman, I strongly suggest you find a qualified shamanic teacher to help guide you through the initiation process... traditionally, if someone is called to be a shaman and they do not seek instruction, they can sometimes go insane...

 

 

 

Well, I can't for sure say that I am a shaman. I simpluy know that there is a great deal of spiritual energy flowing through me that caused me to get massively sick upon it's onset. And ever since then I have been slowly recovering, becoming more kind, loving, compassionate and open minded. And have been continuosluy working on being less judgemntntal.

 

Acts of service? I do a lot in my neighborhood, especiall;y with youth, but I am learning that it is not good to talk about this. I have done so in the past and people feel like I am bragging. They also feel like I am too "preachy" when they ask for advice and I give it.

 

Some of my pains I believe are from being so visible in the commumnity. When you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to criticism.

based on my experience, I do not think your feelings are directly connected to shamanism. It sounds more like personal issues that can best be addressed with a counselor.

 

A shaman does not seek to be recognized or rewarded for their deeds. A shaman is only interested in helping to bring balance. Many times a shaman will choose to help without anyone knowing about it.

 

I suggest finding the friendly ear of a qualified counselor.

 

Yes, I frequently feel unfairly criticized while at the same time not getting any recognition for the good things I do. It just gets old. Every so often it would be nice to get a pat on the back or to not feel ostracized by society.

 

I am guessing it is because I am doing osmethign wrong.

There is no end to Spirit. This system is only one of many. Spirit is Infinite. Any boundaries or limitations are imposed by need of the practitioner or the purpose of the immortals who transmit the teachings. My system is growing all the time... So, I do not know where it will end.

 

The question is...How big do you need YOUR system to be. Why not just start with what you have. Right now in CNK, there are 2 DVDs. for some who have worked with me and shared their experiences one DVD is enough. IME, in the first 2 DVDs there is enough material to spend a lifetime mastering. In the end, it is not about how many techniques are within a system, but how diligent and consistent the practitioner is. I teach numerous "core" practices that if someone were to only do those practices, would give them everything they need. Some of those are on the DVDs.

 

The current grandmaster of the Shang Ch'ing says that if you practice any standing posture for 45 minutes a day, you will gain everything you need.

 

So, according to him, the best system has only one practice...

 

Wow... I must say that answer took me slightly by surprise. Just how big is this system? If you don't mind my asking...

Yes, I have been considering a 3rd DVD.

 

This is just out of curiosity but will there be a "Level III" DVD? or were your plans just for the two levels that are out now? I'm just curious to know how far in this training one will eventually be able to go via DVD.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

Are you asking this question because you feel you are being treated this way?

 

I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do.

 

Thoughts?

Basic mudras used in modern Teutonic Shamanism as I am teaching it.
enjoy!

Yes. CNK is complementary to all of the three major Taoist internal martial arts. i.e, Tai Chi Xing Yi and Ba Gua

 

I have a question I just thought of today. Is this practice compatible with the qigong of the martial art, Xingyiquan? I was thinking of practicing that martial art and I don't want to cross any wires.

Personally, I have said for years that enlightenment is a cultural myth. Am I right? Don't know.

I would agree. I believe enlightenment to be a process rather than a destination.

 

I work with a lot of n00bs on the path. I have to start with the basics to start them questioning conventional wisdom.

 

Your line of questioning then makes sense. It certainly seems that younger seekers these days do tend to see enlightenment as some sort of end game that involves superhero powers rather than a balanced life... Thanks for the clarification.

I am confused by this thread... Asking the question, "Does Spiritual Enlightenment mean Psychological Maturity?" is like asking "Does eating involve chewing?"

 

Because according to all traditional teachings I have ever explored or practiced, the term enlightenment has only ever had one definition:

 

Enlightenment is nothing more or less than emotional and spiritual maturity.

 

You can't really have one without the other and I am confused as to how so many people on this forum think there is a difference. I suppose it has to do with all the attention being given to siddhis and side-effects of energy work. Perhaps it has to do with the average age of those on this forum...

 

The process of life lessons and maturation is ITSELF the process of enlightenment... Life is the meditation and meditation is the practice. meditation and energy work are merely tools that we use to help us learn life lessons and achieve enlightenment...

 

At least that is the viewpoint of traditional teachings as I have come to understand them...

Also... Do not do the practice between the hours of 1 and 3 p.m. The sun is too hot and thick at this time. The best time to do this is at night. If done in the early morning pre-dawn hours, there is a better chance to commune with ancestral teachers...

You can do it outdoors as long as you are not chilled and there are not any strong breezes.

If in doubt... It is better to be warm than cold. If you get heated up during practice, make sure that when you close down that you put on any clothing necessary to keep from getting chilled.

Thanks for the questions,

Mike

 

Shifu Mike, I thought of another question, actually been wondering this from the get go but sorta drifted to the back of my mind. Can this practice be done outside, or is it an indoors thing? I ask because a lot of qigong forms are rather touchy about that sort of thing, mainly with wind and rain and such.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

All we can is our best. Nothing more is required.

 

I haven't analyzed the practice for specific health benefits. So, I would only be guessing. Some of my older students who had arthritis reported that the practice helped with pain and mobility issues. Others have reported anti-aging benefits from the practice. Others have reported physical cleansing.

 

My experience with the practice has shown me that the energy created can be used for manifesting. If someone has a particular health issue, I would recommend that as you are closing down from the practice, direct the energy created to heal or strengthen any physical, emotional issues. It is also a very good practice for aligning oneself to their life purpose.

 

So, as I said, I have not done a specific study of the benefits...

Thanks for the questions

Mike

 

Thank you for the friendly answer Shifu Mike... I actually always wanted to be a good person and even a hero and protector of the good and defenseless, since I was just a little guy I was inspired by the likes of Superman and Son Goku and their innocence and kindness to others around them. I'm not sure if my moral code is exactly sympatico with the practice but I'm certainly hoping it is. Oh and one more question if it's okay, could you give me a rough idea of the health benefits of this practice? I know the practice extends greatly past that but I'm still curious.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

Ralis, my friend... If you honestly think that with my earlier suggestions that I am bringing "guilt, fear and exclusivity to a set of teachings" Then,...

 

I am definitely the WRONG teacher for you and CNK is definitely the wrong practice for you. If what I have shared here doesn't sit well with you, then I completely support your assessment that you should go somewhere else... I admire you for sticking to your principles.

 

So, since we have determined that this is the wrong practice for you and you are no longer interested in the DVDs.. nothing personal, but I would like to get back to others' questions...

 

Just to avoid further derailing of this thread, I'm going to put you on ignored users status...

 

Thanks for understanding and best of luck to you in whatever you do.

 

Actually, what I said are honest comments in regards to what you stated. When a teacher brings guilt, fear and exclusivity to a set of teachings that should always be non-discriminatory, then I will comment.

 

 

BTW, I have considered buying your DVD's

Ralis... Please review the topic of this thread... I would like to stay on topic. This thread is for those who have honest questions for me about CNK as I teach it and are currently practicing or are planning on practicing CNK as I teach it. Since apparently you are not my student and apparently are not interested in becoming my student or getting the DVDs, then why not spend your valuable time on other threads with those who will gladly engage in intellectual hair splitting with you about the nature of the Universe...

Thanks for your understanding. I appreciate it.

 

If it is a gift, then who is giving? If you state it is the universe, then that is anthropomorphizing the universe. That is just another way of saying the universe, god or whatever one chooses to call it has human attributes and in this case, justice that is dispensed on anyone not following your stated guidelines i.e, "power to control, take revenge, gain fame or hurt others."