metzu

You have helped me get the Dao out of my system as I have left all other concepts of someone elses reality behind I can now let go of the Dao. As I shared in an earlier post I wasn't here to learn from you all or teach anyone, I was here to relook at what I came thru in order to arrive at this stage of my life. Thank you all, and good bye. Joe Metoo Metzu

Illusion according to Merriam-Webster: Action of mocking....misconception..mistaken idea....misappropriation....fancy...misleading visual image...hallucenation (my interpretation :misleading mental imagining created by relegions, governments , perceptions of someone elses philosophical conceptions) So is it daoism , christianity , buddhism , democracy , socialism ,communism or some of the other countless ideas promoted to teach and tell you how to feel and think? As you twist your minds and bodies to someone elses song of existence. Look at yourself doing anything to avoid being yourself, thinking the genius of another will show you how to be happy and live a full filling life. Not realizing your genius is all that their is that will bring you peace and joy in this remarkable existence. You live in denial, fear has made you run away, blaming the world and everything outside of your self, you regress into mental and emotional captivity to anything that will temporarily ease your suffering and pain. Attempting to control and manipulate your thoughts and feelings, you are always returned to yourself, which makes you try even harder to deny your honest and true feelings. You call yourself a seeker truth(you think that sounds impressive), you cling to those who convince you with their own brilliance and you want to be like them instead of being the only you ,you can ever be. Not realizing that you have a genius as brilliant and as illuminating as any who have ever lived. When will you let go...When will you realize all the potential within yourself...to master life is right there with in your very own being. When will you cut the apron string and stop trying to impress one another that you've got it, and your teacher..master..guru is the best, what you have discovered and trained your self to be through disciplining your being is the only way. It reminds me of the christians,literally thousands of denominations all thinking their way is better. All relegion in their cunning create denominations, that do nothing to unify life and bring peace. So what is your illusion of choice, and who leads you by the nose and tells you not to feel and think for your own self. All feeling we have is normal , not to express our true feelings, destroys all peace of mind and sets off a mechenism of escape that we have called SEEKER OF TRUTH and we are impressed with our cuning ability to escape the reality we have created , by letting someone else tell us what to do. Spirituality, is and has always been the begining of all illusion ever since the cave people looked up in the sky when a storm hit hard and they ran away in fear, when the sun kept coming and going when the full moon popped up in the sky, scratching their heads bewildered. Then as communication became more humanisng , some came up with explanations for the happenings ,they called them god or gods, and the maddness began, and we have not gotten past that cave person mentality, even though we appear to have evolved way beyond it , we haven't. We know all the nicities, I am sorry thank you, yes mam ,we bow our heads to one another, thinking it looks good, and sounds good, yet it all just remains pretense. We are threatened by anyone that doesn't accept our ideas, or thoughts, and we attempt to convince them they are wrong and we are right. Where does the madness end? Re look at those basics that got you started because it sounded so good and felt better, look with new eyes and you will see how you sold out to anyone that made you think and feel better about yourselves and you will see the lies you have created in wanting so badly to feel good about yourself and to convince others how good you feel about what you are doing and how you are. Lies all lies to hide your true humanity behind. You are part of a wonderful beautiful creation, and as long as you look outside yourself the threat you see creates the illusion that something is wrong with the world. Everything is happening just as Nature guides it to respond, deny your nature you deny life itself. For we are just another part of this beautiful whole that is nature, no more signifcant then anything else, even though we think we are gods over all that is. Only Nature can direct and create and our Nature is perfect. Try to change perfection and all leads to dead ends. Joe

When I had sciatica pain on my right hip and down leg. Hot baths and walking. Took the pain away and it never returned. Joe

As we grow older, and body parts begin to breakdown,organs are not functioning as they had earlier in our lives , very gradually we are being prepared for this seperation. Some of us are fortunate enough to have cleaned up what we thought of as the wreckage of our past , to actually go beyond karmic comprehensions and all other supposed judgements that had come to us from outside of our own being. I believe I have faced all my boogiemen/women. Having gone back time and again, having been reminded of all I had thought were shortcomings, or mistakes , having traveled many times thru the relegious and philosophical concepts I experienced in order to get to today and released them of the damage I thought they had caused me and I had caused them. I truly believe I have cleaned up what I thought could be perceived as a tragic life, if someone were percieving it outside of my own mind , and had experienced life and the experiences as i have. I don't believe I have any regrets, shame,doubts, remorses or fears left. I honestly believe I am prepared to meet that moment of ultimate truth, eyes opened and ready for whatever is to come. I am most grateful I have arrived at this stage of life , I would never have dreamed I would have lived to be 68 ,as my life has been a fantastic adventure, denying myself nothing in as far as experiences were concerned. When someone said," don't," I usually always responded ,Why not"..I always needed to experience , the why nots, the journey has been enlightening to say the least. I still at times feel the most enlightening book I ever read was "Joanathan Livinston Seagull" by Richard Bach, very simple,very practical. I read the bible and practiced doing all the things they said jesus did, and said to do, over and over ,crashing against the walls of delusion they created ,many times before I could untangle my self from the fear that kept me immobilized. I actually longed to be the second coming itself to end all the misery of humankind, because I believed he would actually return as they said at one time. Although deeper investigation freed me of that illusion and all the illusions and delusions that path had carried me thru for so many years. Then came the course in miracles interesting and further distance from the contradicting concepts of the bible, even though the bible was one of its tools. Ultimately not trusting anything anymore coming from the bible, I left that path behind. Then came Narcotics Anonymous for 11 years, and the program of 12 steps, which I did over many times. Again the foundation of the 12 steps was the bible , and limited in its ability to set me free to be me without being inhibited with the fear all others in the program lived with of relapse and death. Siddartha by Herman Hesse introduced me to Buddha and the eastern ways, but I just could not get into the path he chose nor desired the enlightenment they proclaimed he produced either. It was around this time, I picked up one of my stepsons books called the I Ching, I read very little history about it, even so, thought let me see how it works, and for a period of time,practiced that as my daily meditation and guide. Then I met the dao initially thru "The Tao of Pooh" which many ridicule, and truthfully I didn't actually understand, but it was a gift from a dear friend at one of my yearly anniversaries of being clean off of all drugs, so I read it. It wasn't till a friend of my step son quoted lao , "a journey of a thousand miles" that my curiousity was truly awaken. As it would happen again my stepson who had moved a thousand + miles away left three books from his philosophy courses( he graduated with a degree in Philosophy)"Tao Te Ching" ,"Chuang Tzu ,the basic writings" and "The Watercourse Way" For the most part this is all I have experieced. But as with the bible, I read read and studied these books over and over for years, practicing whatever lao or chuang said the dao was about. With intution, I took them as my master and teachers, thinking why would I need a human to teach me that which was evident from those who were said to be the authors of the entire experience. My curiousity occasionally took me to others, who had written what they believed and thought was, the way, as they saw it. They all seemed to be saying the same thing. For me I came to the conclusion that all the meditations I had done for years and all the practices I intuitively worked without a master or teacher took me to the same places others arrived at with a human being explaning . I have always looked for the simple and practical after getting totally absorbed in christianity. Anything that got complicating, became drudgery. One of my practices was to take a chapter a year from lao on my birthday , starting on my 56th year, i read over and over during the year chapter 56 alone, and I have done this every year since. Should I still be here on November 8th I will move on to Chapter 69. I allow myself from time to time to read over those chapters before, the one I have stopped with, but not beyond. When I started to believe all relegious concepts passed on to us where actually governments propaganda to keep their peoples under control and manipulated, I began to let go of the dao.That is how and why I arrived here. My path has been becoming more clearly Nature itself for sometime now even before I did arrive here, September 21 of this year. My way to enlightenment could only come thru nature itself, at this point my total perception has become, Nature is the only trustworthy teacher, and I am simply another part of this remarkable magnificent Nature that surrounds us. It was the quantum theory that sealed this perception, as I saw all as Universally one, and the connection of all to Nature itself. Thereby also connecting me to all that had ever been before my existence and all that will come after, whatever it had been or would ever be. Freeing me to live in the here and now, it was no longer necessary to search the past or fantasize the future. Therefore ,after dao and after karma, were no longer questions neceassary to ponder and I could allow these last concepts to go away with all the other concept and ideas that had come to me from outside of my own being thru out my lifetime. And finally live life instead of questioning what my existence and purpose was all about. Allowing all to go about its natural way with out interference from me. Joe PS I need to go plant some flower bulbs, so that next May there will be new colors blooming in our back yard sanctuary. Thank you for your patience with me:) PPS Well as circumstances come along the new bulbs did not get planted today. Jeanne and I took Ralph and Brandy our 11 and 12 year old puppies to the park, brandy ran and chased squirrels she never catches and Ralph peed on everything he felt need his scent. I read some clouds to Jeanne. When we got home Jeanne and i were out the front of our property, and when she went to pull some weeds she fell backwards and scratched her leg and banged her head , no damage appears to be seriously done, though she fell hard. We came inside and Brandy loves to watch movies of animals on DVD so we put on the shaggy dog and laughed while she climbed up on the screen to lick the doggies. I threw some burgers on the grill and we had two sandwiches and Brandy and Ralph got their burgers as well.. as well. We are getting ready now to watch the Last Samurai, at one time I studied the philosophy behind the Samurai , it is one of my favorite movies, full of honesty and courage and compassion. So as they used to say in Narcotics anonymous "you can make plans but you can not plan the outcome. May be tommorrow the Lilacs, Tulips,Daffodils and Irises will get planted. I would like to get it done, in case next year I' will have departed this existence, and Jeanne will have the memories of yesterday, today and tommorrow to ease her seperation. Joe

Metzu ( I know you corrected me already on the name, but this sounds better ) ..."Kill" the Buddha... this was in regards to states reached during meditation. When in meditation, one may reach states where Buddhas appear. But infact, they may not be actual Buddhas, but demons in disguise trying to sway you into the thought process again, desire and lust. The "killing" was a manner of not following the images, sensations and what not attained during meditation. In regards to how you put it, the reason we are here in the world is not the reason we are here. In fact, any reason you can think of indeed is not the reason. When one is free from reasoning, and even deciding that nothing is worth it... then the need for a reason ends, and you actually taste the freedom that is an existence without existing, without life and without death, without no life and no death. Can't imagine it, but you can attain such a state. Stay in it longer and longer each time in meditation. The mind is cleaner, crisper, wiser...bring that wisdom back and teach us all. When you are free, and see that the "others" are still not, you will ahve such compassion to make the illusion by your own wisdom just to benefit every one else. Come and go as you please... Amituofo! Peace, Lin Lin, I apologize I had missed this post reply from you. I happened on it while I was re-evaluating some of the responses on this topic. I understand this state of being, and the discontentment that sends us searching and practicing to reach it. I understand that longing in our hearts for all humankind to love one another and the desire to go deeper than jesus or buddha, or lao, because it sounds so good and feels so good when we are a part of something that we believe can accomplish such a mission. I had been on that same mission at one time and it brings tears to my eyes and heart the suffering and abuse, you have had to indure to remain on this long path. I also know the rewards and the joys. So I will say no more on the topic. What does Amituofo, mean> Peace be with you also, Joe

Little 1 Your bait, is for the minnows. No riddles or trick phrases fill the void. Joe

Libraries are very handy places, I have been in the same situation myself at times. Joe

Nate, That is exactly what I was saying, the only trust worthy teacher is nature itself. Joe Nate, Except that relegion can lead to a dead end only, it always returns the ball to our court in the end, anmd truth is within each of us when we clear the wreckage of all the other ways that intruded, with their promises of a golden ring on the merrygoround Joe

'Little 1', Their is a part of me that wants to respond to that but who can open minds once they have closed and think they know a better way. Joe

Lin, There is a saying I saw or heard somewhere a long time ago, when I thought of getting involved with Buddha,when I had finally untangled myself from the fear of the bible sending me to hell for all eternity. If you come upon Buddha on the road ,kill him. I would broaden that to say, if you happen upon jesus, mohemed,lao,chuang or any of the pretended masters propelled by their respective governments to god figures, kill them all.The deeper I go into this madness of relegions the more I realize the control and manipulation created by these concepts, all created to seperate us from the here and now and our true nature. Daoist are taught to not act but perform a certain way rather then respond from the gut honesty of our being. Christians are taught to turn the other cheek, someone hurts you don't respond, while the government that proclaims this christianity, just kills as it pleases, calling it retribution in the name of their god. Buddha on the other hand says drop out, be a panhandler, the world is a terrible place. Mohamed says when jesus returns he will bring peace, while the christians say when he returns, he will take some of us with him that have been good little boys and girls, the others he will kick their butts for ever.Talk about maddness. I still contend that all relegions and governments work hand and hand in order to control and manipulate the people. The people on the other hand either submit to the governments and relegions or rebel, those who rebel, seekers of truth find an escape clause through a relegious concept that ultimately is played by the government in two ways, one way," says no way do we want you people to follow these teachings ,(which immediately becomes attractive to the dissidents and they have to followthat particular relegion , because our rebellious nature can't stand anyone telling us "DON'T" the other way says " allow them to do what they want, just keep a close watch on them."This Tao forum is probably monitored by all of the governments for the relegions because it invites all relegions to get involved...................................,opps did I say that. Am I just a madman ranting, have I been hurt so many times from following these relegions, that my anger is finally found a place to let it go.Today while walking, because of Hagars post about trees, I stopped to look at the trees along "MY WAY", I am fortunate enough my circumstances allows me to live in a neighborhod that has many trees, some very old, their beauty and magnifcence astounded me. The natural world is so so beautiful, full of life and beauty,the human portion is just as beautiful as the rest of NATURE .Even though we hem and haw about what we believe the true way is, look at us we can stand up and walk, we can think, we can talk, we create beautiful music,to dance to,we can embrace loved ones, we can laugh, we cry,breath deeply this awesome aroma we have been gifted to, that our parents before us brought us to and their parents before them, and their parents before them(and the ancients never discussed, and just lived fully and abundantly no matter their circumstance), through the remarkable reproductive process . We are all just children in the playground no matter whether we are 5 or 25 or 65 and we are playing soldier,or cowboy,movie actor,or gardener or..or..or...or..The illusion created outside by medias, is no different then the propaganda of relegious concepts. They take words and they say one thing in one place and in another place say something completely different, they call it a paradox. Know this my friend, a paradox is nothing more than a lie created to confuse the distance between the mind and the heart, and creates dogma and dialogue for more chaos and confusion.I am 68 years old, I look back at my years and the adventure has been fantastic, I played every game, danced every dance,I shot drugs that put me in a stupor, did other drugs that carried me away on the clouds,I loved many and many had their feelings hurt by me as i struggled to find this freedom and truth. Freedom and truth is no more then realizing we all are perfect selves, refuse that you are, and you follow any path that someone says is the way to live your life, and in so doing, we stop feeling and thinking for our selves and become puppets of someone elses path. All are dead ends. My body is crippled up with many diseases caused by the life, I have lived, I wouldn't want it to be any other way. I earned it I am going to live it and enjoy it, even the pain, motivates me ",get up ,get out," it tells me, do something productive ,prune the trees ,clean the shed, take Brandy and Ralph for a walk, Go to the inner harbor with Jeanne, sit at a table, particapate in a sing a long, eat crab cakes and mushrooms(I haven't tried the srooms yet,May be)drink lots of coffe, go out and sit by the water smoke a cigarrete hold hands and walk, in other words , moan and groan because of what we have created for ourselves ,only brings us more chaos, confusion and pain, this dissatisfaction carries us from relegion to relegion to some assholes front door we think is enlightened who will be better at telling how to live then I could ever learn to do myself get up and live life embrace its beauty and ignore the entertainment that just creates the chaos and confusion world wide,relegion. So what are we here for in this world? We are all entertainers, we can write our own script or we can act out someone elses the ,choices are always our own.

I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I think of myself as a master, by the handle, I impulsively blurted out when i signed up here.(it is actually embarrassing) I am just another person discussing my own experiences and understandings of what I feel and think is the path I have traveled and am still traveling, or obviously I would not even be here. I am not looking for confirmation for what I am saying ,nor accolodes for what I do share. I am not looking for followers of my ideas and concepts, i share mainly to allow myself to see my thoughts out infront of me vulnerabilbly in the open and not hidden away in some dark corner of my mind creating an illusion. I will know that way if it is just bullshit pretence attempting simply to be impressive, or my own personal truth. As I have shared numerous times since I arrived here I don't believe in masters, teachers , gurus or whodunits. That doesn't mean I feel you shouldn't go where your own personal path leads you. That doesn't mean I have not experienced what I thought at the time were masters, teachers, and gurus taught me For me personally they were all dead ends leading always back to me. That I was disappointed when they weren't what I thought they would be in the end,yes, it always led to mistrust, isolation and depression. Rising time and time again from the ashes, I moved on, to the next and the next, until finally I realized none of them and no one else, could lead me to my truth, or guide my path. That is how I arrived at my own conclusion Nature is the only trustworthy teacher . What happens for me when I join in or start anew discussion, I am going back or forward to let go of some things I clung to in other lifetimes so I can let them go When I have finally relieved myself of all these past comprehensions and futuristic daydreams I will have arrived at my destination. I will know when it is time to move on. (has it been only 5 days since I got here, it seems much longer) Joe (that is metoo not metzu)

Hi Lin, I hope I have not given the impression, that this is something I have been doing for a couple of years, my search began 40 years ago,life after life after life, the Phoenix and I are old compadres. As a matter of fact in one of those lifetimes, while laying quietly,eyes closed on my bunk(I was awaiting trial), I felt a jolt of electricity that had me sit straight up from my top bunk and look around, as I looked out the window, on the roof across from the building I was housed in, stood this huge magnificent beautiful bright orange bird, all a glow as though it was the sun itself. My concentration was broken when I heard someone say," let him go.' I got up and walked to the tier railing and a bunch of guys had some guy that was being released on bail, and they were trying to make him give up his watch before he went home. I told them they didn't need it they weren't going anywhere. Was it actually a Phoenix outside my window? Has anyone ever actually seen a phoenix, or is it really a myth? In one of my lifetimes, I did purple haze for 6 months everyday and at the end of the journey I was taking 10 hits at a time. Does that explain me seeing beautiful birds? Then again, one time when I was coming from a very uncompromising situation, with some people who had challanged my beliefs(I was involved with christianity at the time) I left their building and when I walked outside , looking up into the magnificent star filled night ,hands outstretched I prayed the our father, as I was praying I actually saw satan, red outfit and all, pointy ears, and pitchfork ,do a spin out like the road runner and zoom off and away from me in a streak of red trailer light. I didn't arrive at today unprepared. Joe (metoo not metzu)

Laziness is a symptom of boredom Without a full life everything we do is work Get up go out hug a tree, talk to a bird, smell a flower,wrestle your dog,walk with your sweetheart holding hands down a forest pathway. Go to a job you enjoy. Or just run away from it all, sometimes we wake up and find we have choosen to have so many responsibilities we feel trapped, and yet we created the entire scenario that we are living out. If you are american the fantasy of the american dream, will give you more responsibilities then normally 10 people could deal with and be happy. May be sometimes it is time for a reevaluation of what we think we truly want as a responsibility we are capable of handling without it infringing on our own peace of mind. Sometimes we get so busy fixing people, places and things outside of ourself,we have no time to fix ourselves.

It is possible to have rewaqrding sex without reaching climax. Simply when the woman begins to get you aroused ,tell her" if you don't slow down I am going to cum and that will be it." Most women will slow down and allow you to compose yourself because they don't want you to cum before them, and be left unsatisfied. Do this two or three times and the woman will not only reach multiple climaxes you will understand the mastery of sex itself.

The dao is an individual path,travel as a group and you invite trouble, looking for group security ,we miss the mark completely.

Li Jiong Joe doesn't mind that Lao Tzu won't mind, or that anyone who ever lived or ever will live minds, be they real people......or a perception of an individual created from someone elses imagination. Joe (metoo not metzu)

Li Jiong It is my understanding, it is questionable whether or not Lao Tzu was actually a real person, or an illusion created by a certain group of people. Joe

Delusion , is the after birth of illusion Illusion is the creation of what we have come to think of as spirituality...and mysticism. Nature is not mystical or spiritual, it just is. To search the before or after of the here and now ,is the root of all deceptions, and the beginning of confusion and internal chaos. We are the only creatures on the planet that don't live in the here and now. The more we search and seek within these modalities, of unreality, the more the mind is seperated from the feelings ,the more isolated and alienated we become from the universal life force. This seperates us from anyone who does not think the way we do. And becomes a threat when anyone questions our motives , actions and responses. Fear then takes over and we run back to what we think is a safe place. When heart and mind are in balanced ,all is harmonious with nature. Attempting to force the mind and feelings to come together, thru control and manipulation of thoughts and feelings is the grand creator of illusions, the more isolated we become from life and nature itself, the more delusional we become. When heart and mind are in harmony, our intuitive genius carries us from this to that with out being effected by what we think are changes. To think someone else has the answers we seek carries us ever further down the path of all illusion. Opening the mind to perceptions of grand designs, we flee our natural self, on the concepts of faith, hope and love, all delusional responses to the illusion each of these concepts create. All three take us away from our natural response supposing on something that has nothing to do with the here and now. So we cling to possibilities what might be in the future with faith and hope.........losing ourselves in what we think love is supposed to be. The end result is no peace, no harmony ,no balance. We search scriptures for some other way to get out of this mess we have created, we pile more information on top of information coming from outside of ourselves, going for anything that sounds exciting or impressive creating new dramas to be performed or to be acted out,to replace the old drama that no longer keeps our attention and brings boredom. We search for confirmation of our own thoughts and feelings. And when someone says that is wonderful ...that was a fantastic observation, we fly away, feeding ourselves on this insanity of purpose. Feeling good inside for a moment and impressed with ourselves we search for what will keep reinforcing this insecurity, when we get it we feel ,great, when we don't we find gloom and depression. Keep this up long enough and we will find a new fix, possibly drugs, both legal or perscribed. Go to the doctor ,they will tell you, you are bi-polar, this is the latest trick and illusion, to seperate us from our self, leading to anti-depressants and when we arrive at that door, there are no feelings. We are not made to be lonely or lazy, we have created the scenario that brings on these responses to where we really are, and with lonliness and laziness comes isolation, and isolation brings on depression. These are all things we create our self by our choices. Obviously something is the matter with what we chose to feed our mind. It is a hole we dug for ourselves and the only way out is the way we came in. Reviewing with new eyes the fixed idea that brought us here in the first place. This takes stopping the new information, and becoming openminded enough to reevaluate your own self, and your creation..... Remember that old saying (question authority) whose authority are you following? All governments enjoy seeing groups getting together to do things and think things differently, then the way the government wants them to think, that way they can keep an eye on them more easily. Plus they truly enjoy watching the illusional and delusional, they are the easiest to control and manipulate with their propaganda in the veil of religious and philosophical literature. Take the catholic dynasty, do you think they weren't the ones who released the dead sea scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi, to create more chaos and confusion,to hide and threaten some and get rid of those they didn't want around anyway. So who are you following that you think is better eqipped to show you the way then you youself? joe( that should be metoo instead of metzu)

Ultimately I believe that is all we (humankind) are searching for. What do you think? joe... instead of metzu...it shoul say metoo

This is a question that has been popping up in my mnd lately. I have come to this point with every relegion or philosophy I have jumped into with both feet, all of my adult life since I had my first spiritual awakening 40 years ago, in jail awaiting trial, with 60 charges hanging over my head, in one jurisdiction and 20 charges in another. In forty years I have been reborn so many times to so many different concepts and ideas that I have taken to the end of the line, always leaving me with the same result...........I was always returned to the answers are within my own being. The Dao has opened me up and freed me of all those old boogie men/women,be it jesus,buddha,mary magdalen, narcotics anonymous,drugs,sex,bullshit, and planted me on a direct path with nature itself. Now I have arrived at this moment in my existence, where the Dao is becoming another contrivance and all discussion about it seems, just entertainment............don't get me wrong the adventure internally has been the most exciting of them all, because it has led me back to nature which has led me back to me and the realization that all nature including me and you are the same even though appearences may differ. It has relieved me of the fear of death as well as the fear of life. I feel and think freer and unhibitedly happier , I rejoice in the simple and walk by the complicated without a visible noticing............I no longer need to look for or make trouble to stir up the cauldron of my existence, to dig for new answers to questions outside of my being, they're just none of my business so I don't give them any more attention..... I know nature takes care of all that is and everything happens exactly as it is supposed to without me putting myself in to repair or tear something up or down. I ignore the government, yet keep an eye on them, I ignore the religions, but I keep an eye on them, I know the dangers of having too much or too little, so I let come to me what comes and don't seek more then I need. All in all with Jeanne and our two 11 and 12 year old puppies, family and a few friends I am comfortable but not complacent. My gratitude lists are as long as my 68 years, I have no regrets, nor sorrows, no shame ,don't believe forgiveness has anything to do with anything other than ,judgements...........after what I have survived to get to here who or what could I possibly judge without judging myself.............and since I have judged myself innocent..........then all that encompasses this magnificent universe I judge innocent as well. So I ask After Dao what? What I neglected to say in that magnanimous account of where i was yesterday morning, is, I suffer with great pain from many physical ailments, diabetes, arthritis , scoliosis, and now a tear of a muscle on my hip , the scoliosis has me shrinking rapidly as I become more and more bent over(3 years ago I stood 5' ll" and 3/4's today I stand 5'8")and at the time of writing the above I was not suffering with great pain. So I have arrived at this wonderful remarkable place in my life, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, have suffered as all suffer who strive for freedom, truth and the pursuit of happiness ,only to arrive in great pain. As I have stated at different times since being here on this forum, I have a history of drug addiction. As a matter of fact I have only three months ago been detoxed from a methadone program, that I was on because of my physical pain. I wanted to come off because on drugs, the thoughts and emotions are crippled, by the drug, in other words apathy becomes a way of life, and I didn't want my life to continue without the experiences of knowing and being aware of all the beauty that surrounds me in nature, nor the communication of precious thoughts and feelings with Jeanne, our two puppies, my two brothers that are still alive ( while on the drug, I moved back with my older brother who had been given 2 months to live, to be there and watch him wither away to nothing was devastating more so because I had no emotions, and could only go thru the motions of giving support) and those who have similar interests, to express. After I didn't make a move for a couple weeks to come back home to Jeanne, I was numb, after Lou passed . Jeanne had to come and get me to bring me home. That was when I decided to have them detox me from the drug. Naturally at the time while taking the drug I had no pain at all, nor emotional distress, because the drug is that powerful. I share this now because after that remarkable post I shared yesterday of my experience, and the great pain I have been suffering ,sometimes greater then others, I needed to see and hear the totality of my own situation. This not a cry for sympathy , let's say it is just me getting honest,with me and you all after all I said since being here. I know my bullshit is as great as many and better than some others. Joe

Your maybe's remind me of a Taoist story, I am not sure if it is pertinent to this discussion, but it is interesting about one who was a simple man working and living in this world. A farmer's horse ran away. That evening the neighbors gathered to commiserate with him since this was bad luck. He said "May be." The next day the horse returned and brought 6 wild horses, and the neighbors came exclaiming at his good fortune. He said "May be." And then the following day , his son tried to saddle one of the wild horses and was thrown, breaking his leg. Again the neighbors came to offer their sympathy for the misfortune. He said, "May be." The day after that ,conscription officers came to the village to seize young men for the army, but because of the broken leg the farmers son was rejected. When the neighbors came in to say how fortunatly everything had turned out, he said,"May be." Another illustration of this story from my own experience: My stepson who was twenty years old,and still living with my wife and I was constantly goofing off with college, had been to 3 colleges got asked to leave the first one, the others he just played with. Very expensive . I had opened a restuarant and he came to work with me. One day my chef called to say he had a flat tire and he wouldn't be in till noon. He showed up at eight o'clock that night.. When he came in I was upset and yelled at him," go home I don't need you." My stepson said you can't talk to him that way. I grabbed my stepson and said pack your things you have to move out of my home. His mother and everyone was very upset with me. He moved in with his grand mother and in quick order graduated from college with a degree in philosophy. Almost immediately he moved 1900 miles away to Florida, to become a scuba diving instructor. He got a job with an outfit that took people out on their boat to scuba dive, one of Michael's (my step sons name) responsibilities was to take their clients on a dive were he would feed the sharks. He got careless and got bitten in the leg by one of the sharks, needing 400 stitches ,they saved his leg, but he was laid up for a year and decided to go back to schoo He got his masters degree from U. of Miami, then went on to get his Doctorate at St. Andrews in Scotland. Meanwhile he got his Captains License, crossed the atlantic with two friends. Had I not told him to move out he probably never would have graduated from Towson University. Had he not been bitten by the shark he probably would have never gone back to to school. Today he has His own business doing what he left home to do, he has his own home. And appears to be doing very well "May Be" We never know what life has in store for us around the next corner.

Accept yourself as you are as a perfect creation of nature, nature does not attempt to control itself, let go of the controls, allow yourself to feel and express your self as you are. Do you blow your top and get upset, and feel badly, punishing yourself for not being kinder or more gentle? It is because you are attempting to control and be something you can not be, situations happen and elements of life and their components come together and we flip out, that is only natural. Maybe not normal by societial standards, govermental and religious standards,or any other standard that is choking off your life force. Why not? Nature when elements and components come together, appears to blow its top as well, we have a storm and winds blow, and rains pour, all quite naturally. You think you are any different? Take another look. In other words allow yourself the freedom of being you without changing a thing about yourself, and the pressures to be something else will disappear, the fear of not fitting in or being accepted as you are in a group will stop bothering you, and as you go along the way you will see more clearly and with out fear that you were okay all along. And gradually you will learn to be kinder and more gentle to yourself and as you do that you become kinder and more gentle to others. joe

Having been a heroin addict for many years, myself, having had many years clean in Narcotics anonymous,though I have not been a member since 1993, the realization is that nothing you do or say can make any difference. It has to solely be his decsion. Allow nature to take it's course and though he may die, from his addiction, he will be at One with the universe and suffer no more.. Sometimes that which we desire for someone else is actually what winds up killing them. Be careful for your own life. And your world will find peace. The power of the white powder to end pain be it physical, emotional, or spiritual is very great. If you have never been there ,imagine your own self living without any pain except ,getting your supply of the drug. In a meaningless life, the action of the getting and using actually give purpose and meaning ununderstandable to those who have never experienced it. joe

Nature itself is the only trustworthy teacher.