Sloppy Zhang

I didn't know Starjumper personally but he seemed to be true to his own journey and made a name for himself.

HOW TO LEAVE YOUR GURU https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithoutACentre/photos/how-to-leave-your-guru-the-moment-you-follow-someone-you-cease-to-follow-truth-j/1336040623160209/ "The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth" - J. Krishnamurti If your spiritual teacher promises you unending bliss, an end to all your problems, freedom from anger and doubts and sorrows, permanent access to higher states and realms, the complete transcendence of all human concerns... ... well, then, your doubting is ingenious, and holds infinite creativity. Walk away from anyone who makes you such promises, and never look back. Then, you are free. Because, finally, you trust yourself, as you did when you were very young and hadn't yet split yourself in two, the knower versus the known, the certainty versus the doubt. You are no longer a carbon copy of someone else, buying into the dreams of another, clinging to second-hand promises. You are original again. No longer seeking what others seem to have, but resting in original knowing. No matter what anyone says, however enlightened they claim to be, however many books they've written, however many fans or followers or disciples they have, however shiny their smiles and charismatic their personalities, however perfect and 'spiritually correct' their language, they really do not know. They are a child of life, as you are, innocent at the core. They are not the authority, have no privileged knowledge, do not hold answers. They can only share their journey, their insights, what they have noticed. They are what you are, consciousness itself, and on that level, you are profoundly equal. There is no 'club' for the awakened. No wave in the ocean is more 'ocean' than any other wave. Life knows no levels in this way. Humility reaches everyone in the end. Nobody can be 'in' a higher state. States come and go. Even the most blissful feelings, the most ecstatic highs, cannot be permanent, just as no wave can be permanent in the ocean, and cannot be maintained. If you are chasing states and experiences, striving for the 'next big thing', you will be exhausted before long. And that kind of well-earned exhaustion is a wonderful thing; it is the beginning of a great awakening. Your exhaustion is sacred, see. Your sorrow is not a sign of your ignorance, but a fresh expression of life. Your fears are not mistakes. Your pain is not an indication that you are far from awakening, or that you are being punished for your ignorance. Your longing is not something that needs to be eradicated. Even your confusion is holy. And your doubts have kept you supple, curious, open; they have protected you from the greatest pain of all: arrogance. You are not a victim, friend, but so damn alive. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It would be their loss, anyway. You tire of the promises. You get exhausted from trying to be something that you are not. You get sick of walking another's path, following someone else, trusting their truth over your own gut. It is not your nature, to follow, to worship, to create external gods. Slow down. Come closer. Get curious. Question everything. And most of all, trust your doubts as you walk. - Jeff Foster

Well then I'll stop But I've seen many, many threads about this here over the years. Some are about Bruce, and some are for other systems and other teachers. As several others have said, everyone encounters this question at one point or another. Personally, I think understanding the premise of the request is THE thing you need to reflect on. Because otherwise, what's the point? I hope you get some good advice from other practitioners and I hope you find what you're looking for.

Question - what would you need to hear that would change your mind one way or the other? If someone tells you a fantastic story about how Bruce helped them, would that re-contextualize your experience? Would you disregard the feelings you've expressed so far, or just learn to deal with them? What information would you need to receive to change how you are feeling? If someone told you they also felt frustrated and found a new teacher and became happier, would that validate the feelings you are experiencing? Would you move forward with the teacher who told you to email them any time? Would you stop practicing what Bruce teaches, or would you keep what you've done so far but study with a different meditation teacher? What exactly are you hoping to gain with this thread? What exactly are you hoping to gain from the advice of others? There are any number of current and former students you can reach out to and ask these questions. But I think it would be good to define what you are hoping to achieve here.

So in theory I agree with you, and theoretically your spiritual teacher should be one with whom you have a strong teacher/student relationship, that the spiritual practice they transmit is perfectly aligned to optimize your body, mind, and spirit, and gives you the tools to address any situation you encounter on this journey called life. Unfortunately life does not always align to our theoretically perfect ideals. And the desire to find "perfect" may get in the way of "good enough". So I think you need to first come to the realization that you won't find perfect, or rather, in the time it takes you stressing over finding a teacher that fits you "perfectly", you could have practiced to a point where you could handle any imperfections. So then the question becomes - what is good enough for now, and what do you care more about so you can prioritize where you spend your time? Do Bruce's practices help you heal and improve? Then you should continue doing them. Is another teacher more available? Then maybe you should build a relationship with that teacher and see where that takes you. I understand the "take a little bit from multiple teachers" is a very modern approach, and there have been many, many debates about cross training and mixing and matching. I myself have struggled with it a lot personally. But the fact of the matter is, we live in a modern world. You don't always have a teacher/student master/disciple relationship like the old days. So if you're hitting a wall, and you find something that helps, do the thing that helps, and that helps you move forward.

What are you looking for - the teachings, or the relationship with the teacher?

You say this, but given your earlier points it doesn't sound like you have a strong relationship with Bruce. Have things gotten "weird" for you, and has Bruce been able to help you? It might be worth expanding on this.

At the risk of being too blunt, you made a similar post on this in 2015: In that post, you state: So, my question is: in the 6-7 years since you created that post, do you have a better relationship with Bruce? Does Bruce know your name unprompted? Have you grown in your practice? Have you met another teacher? You felt like something "doesn't feel quite right" in December 2015 and here you are again in 2022. Has Bruce changed? Have you changed? What's different today than 6-7 years ago? Rather than getting into the specifics of any one teacher or any one system, I would take a step back and ask if you are stuck in the same pattern, and what that pattern is, and take it from there.

Damn. Seems like every time I check in on the Bums I get some bad news I didn't know him personally but he always had very even keeled responses even in the threads from the wilder days.

Yeah, my own practice plate is pretty full. I got the first book they put out (Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu) and there was some good content in there but seemed to be mostly tuned for people who already had the practices from that lineage. Still I found it interesting to compare and see what they have going on.

Been away from the ol' bums for a while, and coming back to find there's a new Wang Liping book @thelerner have you gotten the book yet? How long did it take to print? I just put in an order myself.

I looked at Jerry Alan Johnson's book on Taoist Magic a few years ago because it was a subject I was interested in. I was looking for magic specifically from a Taoist point of view, but I saw his book would reference several western magic sources for several practices. Some of the western magic sources were good and I liked them, but not really what I was looking for. Also called into question, for me at least, some of where his information was coming from. But I've never met the man or taken a formal course with him so just take that with a grain of salt.

Bruce Frantzis tends to say something along these lines- Energy that goes up does not necessarily come down. Energy that goes down can more easily go up. Most of the reason why people experience qigong/kindalini psychosis is because energy rises into the higher centers (mental/psychic centers) and they cannot appropriately ground this energy or integrate it properly in their system. I would STRONGLY advise that you cease the above practices and work on the download flow of energy. Get into your body, get into your feet. I don't know where you live, but at the very least find a nice patch of grass and walk around barefoot for a while at the very least. When some of this stuff (particular kundalini) kicks off, you WILL mess yourself up if you aren't ready. I have a strong suspicion that thelearner is correct in his appraisal: Most of the early feelings in peoples' practices are psychosomatic. The feel a tingling somewhere because they put their mind there. That's not bad. But as the saying goes, "mind moves the chi". So you put your mind their first and eventually the energy goes there. Whether it goes there quickly or after much practice is up to a variety of factors. But when that kicks off... it will kick off. Nothing- this is not a knock against you. I'm not sure what your level of practice and experience is. But again, if you are having issues with the downward current, I would highly suggest prioritizing that and come back to the kundalini stuff later. For a practice, i would suggest Bruce Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body". That set focuses on the downward current and getting the energy body "woken up". Once you get the downward flow down, going back up should be no problem.

Word on the street is the lottery was set up to catch time travelers and magicians. You're probably better off laying low. Find some good tech startups to invest in, make a few million off a valuation or IPO, then cash out after a couple of years for a few million before it collapses in on itself. but I'm just a nobody so don't mind me!

I do remember the gender wars crazy times, and also a good example of how an individual may identify with a larger group, or with an ideology. It's hard to keep them separate. If I respond to your post with "that's crazy", am I referencing your post's ideology, or am I referencing you? If I respond with "how can anyone think that?" am I being critical of the idea for being unthinkable, or am I criticizing you for believing it?