Sloppy Zhang

So lately I've been thinking about this quote from Bruce Lee: "Before I learned martial arts, a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick. When I studied martial arts, a punch was no longer just a punch and a kick was no longer just a kick. Now I understand martial arts, and a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick." And have been applying that to my own path of cultivation. At first you know, meditation was just sitting somewhere with your eyes closed for a long time. Then I got into energy work, learned about channels, learned about all the different kinds of energy, how to circulate them, how not to circulate them. I started seeing this stuff in everything. At some points, I even started to become a bit of an energy hypochondriac always worrying what my energy was doing, how it was doing it, whether it should be doing it that way. Previously ordinary things became quite extraordinary, and I kind of started to envy the "ordinary" people who had no idea what was going on behind the scenes, because they didn't have to worry about blockages, or whether energy was going the right way, or any of that stuff. Lately I've really been trying to return to the whole "be natural" thing... like, really be natural rather than just towing the party line and saying, "oh yeah, be natural". Trying to reclaim the openness and "normalcy" I guess you could say that I had before I started this whole cultivation. It's easy to be "natural" and "at ease" when you don't know what's going on, but much harder after you know a lot of stuff. I see a lot of it around here, especially with topics like retention (seems like there's a new one made every couple of days), converting jing to qi to shen, opening however many eyes you want, gaining a transmission from so-and-so... isn't having sex just sex? Isn't meditation a return to stillness? I'm not necessarily saying that we should all just try and forget the systems out there that we might know, some of which that might trace their lineage back hundreds or thousands of years. But even if we haven't reached that point yet, we should at least try and keep our minds at the end goal. Because a punch is just a punch, and sitting is just sitting, right? Thoughts? (seems like a pretty redundant thing to ask, but it doesn't feel right leaving it off )

I am going to go against the crowd and say that you can learn from a book/dvd and be successful.... but it depends, on a lot of things. 1) Your own martial arts background and experience. How long have you been doing it? How well do you understand not only the principles of your art, but the principles of the human body that your art, and every other art, draws on? 2) Your level of insight. How well can you analyze and understand a technique and principle? This comes from natural talent, a genuine interest and love of the art, as well as past experience. 3) How your practice, and how often. How much solo practice do you do, what types of exercises, drills, workouts. Do you work with others and do you spar with them? In the OP you mentioned fighting with someone else, how do you fight? I suggest at least once or twice a week you fight with as little rules as possible against as many different types of fighters as you can. 4) How much you work. How much time are you willing to spend reading/watching a concept or technique, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked, going back, rereading and rewatching the technique, realizing what you did wrong, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked, going back, rereading and rewatching the technique, realizing what you did wrong, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked........ until you finally use it with success? Then going on and doing that with the next technique. 5) How much you work. How much time are you willing to spend reading/watching a concept or technique, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked, going back, rereading and rewatching the technique, realizing what you did wrong, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked, going back, rereading and rewatching the technique, realizing what you did wrong, practicing it on your own, using it in practice, getting your ass kicked........ until you finally use it with success? Then going on and doing that with the next technique. (no number 5 was not a typo) All of that said, I suggest this book: http://www.amazon.com/Hsing-I-Chinese-Inte...7646&sr=8-1 Simple, good, and inexpensive.

I think too much emphasis is put on these rules and whatnot. Everyone is different, do what feels natural. Of course, you have to be sure you are doing what is natural, and not what some complex you have wants to be natural, but that's a slightly different subject Some people say wait 2-3 hours between the time you ejaculate and the time your practice. Others say wait 24 hours, and I've heard even longer times than that. For me, spiritual practice/energy work has become more and more a part of my life- I'm thinking about it nearly all the time these days. But sex is also a part of my life. Setting up barriers and time limits started feeling more and more..... stupid. So I'm just relaxing, emptying my mind, listening to my natural intuition, my connection to the tao, higher spirit, body, nature, whatever else there is, and doing what feels right. And I feel great. And for the record, I feel neither drained, nor weak after sex or masturbation (in fact I usually feel quite energized). For the pain in the lower back/kidneys..... how are you doing it? If you are masturbating or having sex on your back, maybe it's just the constant pressure of your back on the surface of whatever it is you are lying on? Maybe it's your muscles tensing weirdly. Check physical causes before you jump to energetic causes

Well if anyone is a fan of B.K. Frantzis, he writes in one of his books in which he asks his teacher about celibacy, and his teacher says that celibacy isn't really a requirement for advanced spiritual attainment. Some people are more celibate than others. Of course, as marblehead said, celibacy and retention probably has more to do with alchemy or some kind of energy practice, rather than just straight enlightenment. And, of course, it's one thing to not be celibate because of some natural reasons, and another to not be celibate because you are attached to sex, so that's worth considering as well.

I'm not that far along on my own spiritual cultivation path, and I've only encountered two things that could be considered "demons". There is one "demon" that I think I might be fighting off right now with a few bad habits I've got, but that's another story. In general, Scotty's advice is very good. Stare it down, face it, realize that it's all part of your mind. fiveelementtao has also made some very good posts that I agree with on many levels. When it comes to internal/external demons, the vast majority of "beings" you encounter at the beginning are probably going to be internal, simply because so many of us have so much garbage accumulated from our entire lives that we just haven't unpacked. And, frankly, you just aren't important enough for most larger, external "demons" to take an interest in. That said, William Mistele is a student of Franz Bardon's Hermetics, and has an awesome website with a lot of good articles and a commentary on Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics here: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/ Two articles in particular about the shadow in psychology and in magick: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/shadow.html And about negative spirits here: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/negative.html Both relate to the situation, helped me understand a lot of things, and really echo when 5ET has said previously in the thread. On the subject of spontaneous qigong, B.K. Frantzis talks a bit about it in his book "The Great Stillness", and he mentions some spontaneous movements he experienced as a result of some high level bagua practice. His teacher said that every once in a while it'll happen to students because they become more connected to flows of universal qi, and the body needs to adjust. But it should be kept in mind that, at least in Frantzis' tradition, these spontaneous movements come after years of "regular" qigong practice, years of understanding and controlling the flow of qi, building up a flexible, healthy body, and having the clarity of mind to not get freaked out by experiences you cannot control. They also don't do these spontaneous movements deliberately, as in, they don't sit down and say, "time to do spontaneous movement", rather, they just do their normal practice, but if something happens then something happens. So I highly suggest that you should take the other exercises in the Kunlun book and spend at least the same amount of time between spontaneous movements and the more "normal" exercises. But I don't do kunlun (I have the book though), so maybe some other advice would be better. From my own experiences, the best things to do is keep everything that everyone here and elsewhere has said. It's your mind and you're in control. Nothing has power over you except what power you let it have over you. Most of what you face is likely to be your own garbage, it's just that not everyone goes through such a radical process of self examination as many people on the path of spiritual cultivation do.

I suggest you buy the textbook, workbook, and audio for Genki levels I and II. It is an excellent book that will teach you everything you need to know about grammar, both formally and informally (a big deal in Japanese), teach you a bunch of essential vocab, and all of the basic characters you need to know for introductory communication. I used that book for self study in high school, and it's also used by many universities, and if you just know everything in that book cover to cover, you'll know everything you'll need to know to get out and around in Japan, and even have some good conversations. (Genki I and II was all I knew when I did foreign exchange to Japan for 2 months, and I understood pretty much everything, and I knew enough to form a base for some harder classes, and by the time I got to university, I placed straight into the higher levels).

Well one thing to point out- for every situation, it depends. Really. A lot of posts seem extreme in this thread because there are all kinds of people out there who have had all kinds of experiences with all kinds of teachers. All of our posts reflect our own experiences, and taking any one post out of context is going to seem like, "well what are you talking about?" Anyway... The thing I personally was getting at is people need to stop putting on airs. I have not met any enlightened master. The only people I have encountered are plain humans, who have good stuff to teach, and who I am more than willing to learn from, even if I have to pay. Now there are some situations in which I am not getting what I paid for, and now, this isn't some selfish thing or fantasy I set myself up to fail in. I keep forking over the cash, and keep getting met by excuses or poor instruction. And when confronted about this, teachers in question stammer out some excuse- err, reason, for why it's my fault. Other situations in which I don't really like paying is when a teacher is obviously not what they are saying themselves to be. Some people really DO go around saying, "I have become enlightened" or "I can transcend" the physical world. When people make claims like that, I expect them to prove it! They should walk the walk. If they run out of fish, they should be able to make more. If they come up a few hundred bucks short to rent a hall for an afternoon seminar, I think they should be able to be "in tune with the Tao" and it will all work out. But again, there are plenty of honest people teaching honestly and being honest about their own accomplishments, or lack thereof. They aren't saying anything about anything they can do, and they are completely upfront about what they require from you and why. Will their system lead me to enlightened beings on the astral plane? Maybe, that's something I have to find out for myself, and that's something that they fully admit, that they aren't in the business of proving it to anybody, they are only giving you the keys. Other people go on long tangents about how great they are and about how they can commune with spirits at any time to tell them anything, and if you pay you can see those spirits too, and then you pay, and then they don't show you any spirits, and you don't get anything they said you would get, and then..... well you get the idea. And speaking of tangent, this post is long enough [edit] I'd also like to point out how hard it is to find a "genuine" system. Everyone says their system is "genuine". It takes a LOT of effort and time and research to find out who is legit and who is just saying that they are legit. There are some VERY good fakes out there. In some instances, those fakes are actually using legitimate information, just slightly skewed, so they may still help you grow. In other instances, they can really hurt. Anyway, once you've found a legitimate avenue of instruction, I don't think anyone feels any qualms about making a sacrifice. The real issue comes in making sure you are making a sacrifice to the right person. Many people have made serious commitments to people, organizations, or traditions that do not hold their end of the bargain. Not everyone has the luxury of having a legitimate instructor to learn from, so I think the issue is a lot more complicated than just "fear of growth" or "fear of making sacrifice".

I dunno, you'd think anyone who has transcended the physical would, y'know, easily be able to see through the physical situation and act in such a way as to.... I dunno..... make it so that they have everything under control? I mean, if you want to hold a seminar but don't have enough fish and bread, you could... multiply them.... or at least hire a catering service for that afternoon.

I dunno, browse around and you find pages like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi So.... why does an enlightened master need to charge....?

Well this mostly. I learned a long time ago that no matter what you say people are going to make their own opinions. Sometimes they will hear what you say and think about it, use it, sometimes they will reject it, and sometimes they won't even listen to you. The only thing you can do is say your peace, put it out there, then leave it. It's up to them to accept or reject it, and you have no control over that. Do what you feel you need to do, but try to focus on what YOU do, not the other person.

For Western mysticism, Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics is the most comprehensive that I have seen in terms of practice. Very little theory, it's pretty much just practice, and it contains 99 out of 100 practices that I have come across, or explains them better, and the 1 or 2 practices I've come across not explicitly in IIH are either implied or can help you in your IIH practices. When I read a couple chapters of Opening the Dragon Gate: The Making of a Taoist Wizard, I was struck by how similar the practices in the IIH were to the stuff that Wan Liping did according to that book. So yeah. For the most part I'd say that western occultism tends to give emphasis to many spheres of someone's life. Obviously spiritual cultivation is the top priority in those systems, but cultivation of more physical things (health, wealth, power over other things) is not ignored. It's very easy to fall into a sort of "trap" and just become power hungry.... but I guess you can ask- who is more powerful? The person who stays as far away from temptation as possible, or the person who is surrounded by it but maintains the integrity of what he or she is trying to accomplish? Good cases can be made for both sides of the argument.

Not snowing where I am, but it's started to get a bit cold. After spending all day inside and sitting on the computer doing work or studying, I can't bring myself to meditate inside, even if it's away from my computer table. I want to go outside and meditate in nature, so I do. I usually wear appropriate clothing, but after a little while of just breathing (focusing on dan tien breathing, at first), I start to warm up a lot, so much so that I'll roll up my sleeves or even take my jacket off. People will be walking by me all bundled up and talking about how cold it is, and I feel fine. I don't feel cold, I don't feel super hot, I feel pretty much great. I don't see any problem with it as long as you feel fine. If you start feeling your body go from one serious extreme to another and it is throwing you off, I'd say doing it moderately if at all. But if you can stay feeling neutral in any temp, do whatever you want.

like fizix, my post is also from my limited experience/knowledge: Chi follows your intent, so as long as you have a powerful intention and a strong willpower, really try to feel, and just keep at it, you can and will be able to move chi even if you are not physically moving your arm. Moving is certainly nice to do, because it helps connect a feeling of movement of body with a feeling of movement to chi, but you can just as easily move another part of your body and apply that feeling to the chi movement in the area of your body that you cannot physically move. On top of that, there are types of practices in which you do the movements completely in your mind without physically moving your body (in other words, 100% with your intent), and you can get the same benefit from those. So not being able to move one arm is not a problem at all

You could: 1) Find something else to devote your time and energy to- you'll enjoy doing this so much and have such a great feeling of accomplishment that you won't are about Wan anymore 2) Think about the situation and realize how stupid it is- analyze what you are doing and what you've been doing and try to figure out what results has it gotten you. No matter what you say other people are just going to make up their minds on their own- if they decide they like him or not like him there's very, very little chance that you will change their opinion, and most likely nothing you say or how many posts you make about him on the net are going to stop Wan from doing what he's doing, because he's doing point 1 in his life 3) Just stop. By far the hardest, you'll just have to use your willpower. There are a few other things you could do I guess, but those are the most obvious and the easiest.

You need to let this whole thing go. It's been over a year (maybe multiple years?) that you've been investigating/going after Wan. Who cares? Wan doesn't give a shit about you, why are you giving so much energy towards him? The guys at Bullshido did an investigation on him, called him out on a lot of things. He kept doing his thing. The people who like what he has to say will like what he has to say. The people who don't can hear what he says and be like, "that's nice" without having to be obsessed with him. Seriously, do something else with your life. I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Is this about Wan......?

I think there was a story somewhere around here in an old thread, but the jist of it is this- This guy was trying to meditate and all these people were making noise, so he went up a mountain, and they were still making noise. He went up to the very very top but the noise still reached him. He got super pissed off. Then he realized the noise was just being noise, the loud people were just being loud people, and learned to cultivate no matter where he was. The people bothering you are just doing their thing, don't judge and get pissed off. And interesting thing though is that I also get people coming around and "bugging" me when I'm doing some energy work. Maybe they are attracted to our intense energy

I prefer asics, but I can't comment on their indoor performance.

Frantzis isn't against the student doing anything in general. He's against the student doing anything unsupervised. If you look at a lot of his warning stories about students, a LOT of problems don't result from just the practice. But sometimes the teacher goes to travel, or the student leaves, and the practice is continued, and when the student meets back up with a teacher there's a big problem. A good teacher can see a problem looooooooong before it develops, and can help you correct your practice. It's not like Frantzis doesn't like the techniques, he just won't put them in books and probably won't teach them if he doesn't see you at regular intervals. It's a precaution for everyone's sake.

Tai Chi is really good in the way that it emphasizes a lot of natural movements, and that outside of a few crazy things from the Chen style, most routine tai chi practitioners are going to get some pretty low impact movements, and it's good for gently moving. Some of the more "extreme" postures in yoga really didn't appeal to me, so I mostly stuck with tai chi/other qigong, then I tried yoga. There is definitely something to it. I could really feel different places open up in certain postures. Sure, a lot of tai chi/qigong people say, "well this routine will open EVERYTHING", and that's all fine and good, but opening one or two specific things is also nice, and you can learn to feel when energy is flowing through one isolated place. Then you move on to the next posture, and at the end, you feel very "complete" after. I say, do what is appealing to you, and what you enjoy doing.

Pretty much what ~JK~ said. Seriously, I don't get people who are so averse to psychic powers. It's like, the same guys flipping out about it are the same guys who do martial arts, and with those martial arts you can become attached to your strength and use it to beat others up and become addicted to being the most powerful. You can be attached to ANYTHING, but since psychic powers are seen as something you have to "work for" (doesn't come "naturally"), it is seen as some sort of ego thing.... well guess what, you work for almost EVERYTHING that you have right now. Can you walk? Yes? Well you had to work at that. You weren't walking since you were a baby, you had to try to walk. Are you attached to walking now? Psychic powers I believe are completely natural, most people experience them. They just never pursue it. It'd be like a baby that can walk a few steps to its mother, but never practices beyond that. For people who are "trying" to get psychic powers, it is nothing more than learning to walk. You can use it for your betterment, for the betterment of others, or to the detriment of yourself and others. You can be attached to how you can walk on two legs and how babies and monkeys can't/don't, just like you can get attached to psychic powers. They also aren't a replacement for some form of "enlightenment" and they aren't going to help with any psychological issues. You can learn to shoot a 3 pt shot in basketball 100% of the time. You can also make a whole lot of money doing it, you can become incredibly successful. Is that a guarantee you will find love and happiness in your life? Does it mean you will become enlightened? Of course not. Shooting three points is shooting three points. Realize it for what it is, and don't try to use it as a substitute for other problems- same goes for psychic abilities. But it's not the fault of the powers, or the process of getting them. It's your own fault. If you don't think you can handle the responsibility, or if you don't even want to touch it, fine. If you think that "chasing after" psychic powers will distract you from the "truth", fine. If you think that it's too easy to confuse "power" with "enlightenment", fine. But there is no need to tell others who decide to get up and walk that they are "missing the point." It is what it is, nothing less and certainly nothing more.

Because it's cool.

Copied from the other thread (there's an "edit" function, you know ) Everywhere you turn in modern society you are blasted with sex- there's sex on tv, sex on the movies, sex in the music, sex in the paper, in the magazines, etc etc etc. Just go out and watch an action movie, 9 times out of 10 there's going to be some sex scene even if it serves absolutely no purpose. People like sex. If you are trying to abstain or whatever it's going to be much harder getting into it while you have sex blasted in your face everywhere you turn. Sure, you CAN go to a 3-6 month retreat or something, get your center, banish all sexual thoughts, and return to society with a willpower of steel. But since not everyone can do that, and must stay in society, well every once in a while you are going to get some urge brought on by a certain stimulus. When it gets too powerful, don't worry about it. Don't try and force yourself into being this super celibate guy. Have clean thoughts, clean actions, but you can't help it if you turn on the tv and there's, you know...... something there wink.gif That's not to say that you should go out looking for this stuff. If it happens, it happens. Don't get attached and move on with your life. Eventually you'll go longer and longer between each time until it just doesn't phase you anymore. Some other thoughts: Good post Biff. Just wanted to emphasize the last point that he made, that when you get to a certain practice it will be natural and not forced. A lot of times in yoga and other related practices people make a big deal about "halting the breath" and people do deep breathing while holding the breath for a while. I was never really into breath holding, and just did long and even inhales/exhales, with no pause in between, no breath holding. After a while and I get into a deep meditative state, I sometimes stop breathing. I'm not holding my breath, I just..... stop breathing. Kinda hard to explain, but that's when I stopped thinking about holding your breath as being something crazy It's just that some people "try" to hold their breath, rather than reaching that point naturally.

Not to speak for Durkhrod, but here's my opinion: Everywhere you turn in modern society you are blasted with sex- there's sex on tv, sex on the movies, sex in the music, sex in the paper, in the magazines, etc etc etc. Just go out and watch an action movie, 9 times out of 10 there's going to be some sex scene even if it serves absolutely no purpose. People like sex. If you are trying to abstain or whatever it's going to be much harder getting into it while you have sex blasted in your face everywhere you turn. Sure, you CAN go to a 3-6 month retreat or something, get your center, banish all sexual thoughts, and return to society with a willpower of steel. But since not everyone can do that, and must stay in society, well every once in a while you are going to get some urge brought on by a certain stimulus. When it gets too powerful, don't worry about it. Don't try and force yourself into being this super celibate guy. Have clean thoughts, clean actions, but you can't help it if you turn on the tv and there's, you know...... something there That's not to say that you should go out looking for this stuff. If it happens, it happens. Don't get attached and move on with your life. Eventually you'll go longer and longer between each time until it just doesn't phase you anymore.

I've been feeling a lot more energy. Stronger meditations, less desire for sleep.