Sloppy Zhang

Hmm, that sounds cool Is it safe to download that book? Would there be any viruses destroying my computer?

Well this is one of the few kunlun related threads I've been in. I know there are a lot of people here into kunlun, but starjumper is the first person (that I've read anyway) that is against it. Like there are other people that are just like, "it's not for me", but star's flat out against it. Which is, to be a little honest, refreshing But for someone who doesn't kunlun but hasn't really heard about it, it's good to hear both sides of opinions. Like when I go to amazon and buy something online, I look at the 1 star reviews first, you know, because the people who give 5 stars obviously love it, but it's good to hear why some people don't like it

I can't speak about Kunlun as I haven't tried it either, but I will second the notion that if you get a bad feeling about it don't go through it. Sure it sounds kind of Star Wars-ish by saying "trust your feelings" and all that, but if it really gives you a bad vibe then it gives you a bad vibe. Even if kunlun is 100% authentic and whatever, if you got a bad vibe getting in the way it won't help you anyway, IMHO. Go somewhere and do the things that give you a good vibe and where you really DO feel like you're in a family atmosphere.

Yes let's do. What you said: What I said: If you don't know what Church indulgences are, basically a long time ago the Church had these indulgences, and if you bought them it lessened your time spent in purgatory. If you don't know what purgatory is, basically after you die you go to purgatory and all of your lesser qualities and sins are burned away. Even if you are a good person, you still have lower qualities that must be burned away before you are pure enough to go into Heaven. There are a few cases in which a person can skip purgatory (like the Pope if I recall correctly) but essentially for normal people, you'll be in purgatory for X amount of years before you are allowed into Heaven. So the more you bought indulgences, the less time you spent in purgatory. You're a nice person, but oh, when you stubbed your toe you cursed... well that's +2 years in purgatory, but you can buy 5 indulgences and erase those 2 years. Oh, guess what? We just found out that your uncle who passed away last week picked on his younger brother when they were kids, that's +15 years in purgatory, but if you buy a bunch of indulgences you can lessen his time spent in purgatory. Oh and if you don't buy them, that's +5 years in purgatory for you. See where I am going with this? Donating money to get rid of karma is a similar concept to the Church indulgences. The idea that you can "buy your way out of spiritual matters" is present in the Church indulgences and in your post. The real question is why would physical money make a difference to spiritual matters? It WOULDN'T. It's the thought ASSOCIATED with that money. That being said, the money isn't important, but, as the saying goes, "it's the thought that counts." If you donate clothes with the same feeling as someone who donates an equal amount of money, what's the problem? It could still be a great personal sacrifice. But to say that only money (physical) can get rid of karma/purgatory time (spiritual) seems HIGHLY sketch. It is also a terrible thing for the people who don't have any extra cash. Maybe they have 5 or 6 shirts total in their wardrobe, but no extra cash, so instead they donate 2 or 3 shirts, sparing as much extra as they can, oh but that's not "as good as money" so their donation "isn't as good". I'm sorry, but that... I dunno, I can't think of anything civil to say to that. Where do you get off on judging someone's sacrifice as "good enough" or not? Are you psychic? Do YOU know what they have gone through to give that to you? Unless you KNOW for 10000% certainty what their feelings are, you have NO RIGHT to judge their sacrifice like that.

Can't speak specifically for the DVD's, but in simplified Tai Chi in general... you know, eh, it's a good idea and it works. It is a martial art and I would prefer that people would recognize it as such, but its characteristically slow movements and (for some styles) simple postures encourage gentle movement, create a sense of balance, and give the person the good feeling that they are doing something good for their bodies. It helps people learn to relax, to breathe, maybe get outside and enjoy some sunshine. It's not as rigorous as martial arts taiji training. It's not as intense as super qigong. But it gets the breath going, the blood flowing, and an older person moving out and about when otherwise they may not be moving. I mean it's gotta be rough for an older person to sit on the couch saying, "I need to exercise..." go find an exercise program and see this ripped man or woman doing these intense exercise routines... or even for a beginner lesson, see this guy who can easily bench a car going around with a 5 lb dumbell going "feel the burn!" seems like a ridiculous joke and an insult... yeah, something easy to get them moving is good. Again, that's speaking in general, not about the specific DVD's, of which I don't know.

Honestly, I think Kimbo Slice was overhyped, and the sad thing is it WASN'T KIMBO'S FAULT. Look at Kimbo's fights prior to his entering the pro MMA circuit. Those were real fights... just the rules and the fighters he was against was a bit different. Kimbo needed time to adjust and to train for difference circumstances, but I think that due to certain media pressures ("zomg an internet dude irls letz make this live so we can put MMA into mainstream, yeah, EliteXC or whatever the heck we are, let's go with kimbo at the head!") he was forced to go in too early. Kimbo's hype got out of hand, and that put kimbo in over his head too fast. I think given the right amount of time and training Kimbo could have done well. Look at Brock Lesnar in UFC, everyone was making a big deal about him moving from wrestling to MMA, but one of his earliest fights he lost (maybe his first UFC fight?) To be honest I think that put the breaks on the media circus around him. They were like, "okay he lost" then moved on. I think that let Brock take some chill time to keep training and adjust to the octagon. But with Kimbo... the first televised fight of his I saw, yes, he won, but he did so sloppily. I said this in an MMA forum, I said that what he needed to do was get a handle on the media and not let them overhype him. If they did that he would get put in fights he wasn't ready for. And guess what? He got put in a fight he wasn't ready for... and on TOP of that, his opponent changed at the last minute. A fighter who 1) isn't used to those conditions and 2) has barely won his existing fights did NOT need to be fighting an unknown guy under those conditions. I think that if people let Kimbo mature away from the media he could be a great fighter. He has the raw fighting experience, the attitude, the body, he just needs to adapt to his environment. That being said... do a simple youtube search on "fasted UFC knockouts" or "fasted knockout ever" and you'll see fights from all kinds of competitions, boxing, kickboxing, MMA, TKD, Karate, backyard brawls, street fights, school yard brawls... in EVERYTHING there is a super fast knockout. It happens. The knockout itself was what it was. If you look at the slow-mo replay, you can see Kimbo swinging, his opponent kicks him low in the abdomen or the legs, and his legs go back but his upper body and head keeps moving forward, nothing to stabilize him, he runs into a punch... you know it happens. But if you look at Kimbo's earlier fights, he didn't fight guys who threw lots of kicks. These guys had huge arms and hard fists and swung them. But that kick took out Kimbo's balance and made him go somewhere he didn't want to go. That's why I said he needs to adapt. But it's funny because it's only now that people are realizing the beauty of the legs in a fight. If you search for high school fights or street fights you see guys (even grown men) whose strategy is to put their head down and start swinging. If they get grabbed or their head gets pushed down, they just swing somewhere above them. But just the other day I saw a vid where some guy had his head down swinging, he got grabbed, but he kept swinging... then took a knee to the face. I was shocked because that's the first time in a street fight I had ever seen someone do that it's like there's some unwritten street fighting brawler's rule that you can't kick, I guess because kicking is for girls... riiiiiight.... yeah, tell that to the guy who took a knee to the face and all the people who have been ko'd by a kick to the head or have sustained broken ribs Anyway yeah those are my ideas in as short a space/slightly rantish way I can give.

Yeah JackSquat, that was a cool video.

It doesn't really bother me. I'm a cautious person... I see something, I hang back and figure out what it is... then I know. I don't really think someone needs to declare what it is their objective is.... they make it known after some posts. Um... but yeah, a "professional" will always have that affect. You know, "oh well I was a physics major in college" or "oh well I teach psychology at X university" and blah blah blah.... but you really gotta ask yourself if their title really changes what it is they are trying to say or if it changes the truth of the matter.

I'm not necessarily saying it's not meaningful. What I'm getting at is, is it (for lack of a better word) "fair"? Is it "fair" for someone to put a price tag on something? Is it fair for you to say, "well sure you can use your money to put food on your family's table, or you can use it to buy the tao, which is it?" Granted, a lot of people aren't in those dire circumstances, but I hope you get the general idea. Those sound like the indulgences that the Church used to have and all their official "pardoners" and all that business.... well you see what that led to. $5 USD for a tape or VCD... lol. Sorry but DVD's are the thing now... and those are a LOT more than $5. In a lot of cases it's actually more expensive to buy DVD's than it is to just join a school or follow a teacher. $50-$60 for one DVD, and there are usually multiple DVD's in the set, so you are looking for at least 3-5x that. Then you've got books that go along with stuff like that. I hate to name this guy, but look at Yang Jwing-Ming's stuff... you buy the $30 book then the $50 DVD, then the special $40 DVD on weapons and another of equal price on meditation, another on actually application..... For that amount of money I can go down to the karate school, pay a ridiculous amount of money for a contracted membership... and then learn how to not fight. So.... yeah. Not trying to insult you, but let's get the facts straight. There aren't any good MA schools in my area, and a bad MA school nearly got me seriously injured, so I've looked at the distance learning/learn by book/DVD and it's a helluva lot more expensive... but sometimes the quality is a LOT better than anything you could receive in person. You have to take it where you can get it. I think you just contradicted yourself.... As you said, if the teacher is bogus or sucky, you can pay all the money in the world and you can actually end up hurting yourself. Yes but if you get mugged and seriously injured and your kung fu actually ends up hurting you... well.... that doesn't really help you in the present moment. You have to look at this thing on all levels. Sure, he may owe you... right, well, there are tons of people who are in financial debt or something, but if they don't have any money to pay the lenders back, the lenders still don't have any money. Sure, the person owes them some... but that doesn't help the lender, who may have to give money to someone else. The I Owe You system is nice in theory... but doesn't get anything done. I learned karate from a scam school, forked over tons of cash and almost got my ass handed to me in return by someone looking to start a fight. I forked over more cash for books and DVD's on real self defense, and within a week I was much better at self defense and able to take the black belts at the karate school I was at. So.... yeah, it depends on 1) the quality of the instruction and 2) the quality of the student. Under normal circumstances, I would not recommend people to learn from books or DVD tapes. But if you have had experience in actual fights or combat and physical training, then I say go for it. You know basic concepts, you know what to do and what not to do already, you just have to learn how to do it. Or you could pick up a DIY cook book and learn how to cook for yourself..... That's how my friend got good at cooking. And that's how another friend got good with computers... got a book, got a computer, tinkered around... There are good and bad points for BOTH sides of the argument. Done CORRECTLY, anything can be good. Done INCORRECTLY, anything can be bad. Actually there would be too many babies in the world because the men would be cheating with so many women and... yeah, sorry, just had to add something humorous to lighten the mood Well it's not really a funny subject, but... well you get the idea.

As soon as you define religious, you create non-religious. As soon as you create structure, you create non-structure. As soon as you create "fact", you create fiction. When you create "religious tao" you then have "non-religious tao".... but who created those? "You". Who is "you"? A person. Is "religious tao" or "non-religious tao" or "philosophical tao" what tao is? Or is it what "you" have created? Hmm........ This is what crosses my mind when I read the TTC, then see these threads.

Guys that was a movie... It was a scene from "Never Back Down" (or something like that) One of the extras used for the crowd probably got it on camera ('cause you know, extras want to have proof they were an extra, their claim to fame and it's not like it detracted from the scene anyway). So yeah... not real. And a terrible movie anyway. I like MMA for what it is, but I don't think that movie did MMA much justice...

That was awesome

Hey guys, so, as I've said a few other places, I've been doing some zen like meditation for a while now, after learning it through karate and some kendo. Recently though I've become interested in learning some daoist meditation/qigong practices. The only daoist related stuff like that I know is from a little exposure to it through taiji, but that is mostly through standing meditation. I've looked through a lot of old threads on these boards as well as lots of other websites, and I always find a jumble of information... quite confusing. Anyway, I know it's not really the best thing to learn from a book, but I'm not in a position where I can track down a teacher, or anything like that at the moment so... I'm looking for any good book recommendations about daoist meditation/qigong stuff. Since I'm mostly a beginner, something generally comprehensive with some basic foundational exercises practices would be the best. I know that Yang Jwing Ming has some books out there but... I've read a bit of Yang's stuff on taiji, and while it gave a good foundation for me when I was new to the terminology and cultural stuff, later on... I don't know, a lot of reviewers say he mostly translates other stuff, and I tend to agree. I found other books on taiji that were much better, so I am hesitant in getting some of his qigong books. Also, Mantak Chia's name seems to be popping up a lot, but I'm not so sure about him and I've heard some mixed reviews on him as well... Though of course if anyone has either one of their books and has had great experiences learning from it, please share your thoughts And that's about as much as I know. Any book recommendations or even websites with good beginner level information/practices would be greatly appreciated.

Well then, I'll definitely give it a look (it's actually popped up a lot in recent discussions for me, so I'm happy to see it come up on this thread as well ) Seems like an interesting read, thanks for the recommendation

That's the thing I keep in mind. I've had some interesting stuff happen to me (nothing major though), and I was hesitant to pursue it, mostly because I had no clear way of validating who it was or what it was I had encountered. I figured it's better to be safe than sorry. If it was something bad, I'm avoiding trouble. If it was something/someone good, I would hope they would understand the hesitancy on my part. Yeah, as much as I believe in the stuff, for me to know if it happened to me or not, I also need proof. Usually in the form of a message or something, like, "if this is real call me tomorrow at 7" and if I get a phone call yay

Wow. That was... that was something.

So what about FU that will help you get a girlfriend that you can order from a temple and have mailed to you...? Or are we talking about a different FU here? (not trying to criticize just wondering)

Yes, very interesting post, thanks Yeah, I definitely love staying in bed these days Well it's mostly on weekends when I don't have anywhere to go, I'll wake up then be like... no, back to sleep... lay down... then get up... Is it really that bad? Or am I just enjoying the free time I have? There are lots of teenage boys out there that are addicted to video games or have huge crushes on girls that don't even know they exist. ..... and I've been a member of both categories It sucks but is also somewhat enjoyable to tell the truth.

I don't have a problem with money or giving money to someone who helps you a lot. The problem is when the money prohibits you from being able to learn or whatnot. Some people have to work two jobs to pay the rent or pay for their kids' schooling, or maybe they work full time to pay for their own part time education, or maybe work part time to pay for their own education. For those are still students, college education is expensive and in most professions is quite necessary. Even for people out of school who manage their money well, there are some things that just happen and those cost money to fix. So when it comes down to making a payment on your house vs. paying money to a daoist teacher... Or when it comes to paying your school tuition or paying money to a daoist teacher... Or paying your kid's medical bill vs a daoist teacher.... You get the idea. I have nothing wrong with money, I just have a problem when things become cost prohibitive.

So I've been doing sitting and silent meditation for a while, pretty much since I was introduced to it through karate some four or five years ago. Through tai chi I've done some of the standing postures and a sitting meditation... but I don't have a teacher, and there's only so much tai chi media resources tell you. But as far as internal cultivation and more serious building up exercises for self cultivation and stuff... what would be the "next level" for someone who's working on silent meditation but would like to add a little something? Nothing too advanced... really just something basic that I can build on. I've heard a lot about the microscopic orbit meditation, but not really familiar with what that is/what system it falls under/what exactly it tries to do (everything I've found on it describes it differently than every other source...) Then you hear about this or that meditation or this or that qigong being dangerous and.... yeah it gets confusing. So could you help me out guys?

Ah, okay I see. Thanks very much for all your help

Glad I'm not the only one

I'm kind of in the same position... then again, I don't go around to all my profile pages and go: "Hobbies: hanging out with friends, listening to music, internal cultivation to seek immortality and be free of the endless cycle of death and rebirth". Maybe we should try that? That was... yeah.

Thanks for the book ideas. If you do end up getting "Opening the Energy Gates of your Body", come back and let us (well me + whoever else is reading and is interested ) how it turns out. Also, thanks for bringing up the subject of TCM, that's also something that sounds good to know And I thought the text was pretty cool myself

Yeah, I'm definitely looking for the more calmer aspect. The qigong stuff for harder martial arts is cool but... it's not really my thing. I went down that road with karate, but the taoist stuff is definitely what I'm looking to learn now. I also like looking up the recent medical findings, it's always funny when a "modern" finding comes out and it proves... well it proves stuff that people have been doing for thousands of years I guess muscle tensing was the wrong word, more like muscle "squeezing"? But basically the tongue to the roof of the mouth connects the ru mai and the du mai (those are the right names I think?) channels at the top. Do you have to do anything to connect the channels in the bottom? I've also heard people say you need to apply a "root lock" when doing the microcosmic orbit meditation, is this true?