Sloppy Zhang

Hm, interesting. Are you supposed to let thoughts flow like this, or are you supposed to try and empty yourself? If thoughts come, should you let them flow and see where they lead (while still maintaining calm), or should you be trying to stay as empty as possible?

Yes, feel free to send that question, and let me know how the response goes! In a more general way, I REALLY do agree with what he's saying, stuff like going with the flow and that. I mean, I've done that with some social situations and meeting new people. You know, if you meet someone that you might like to get to know, get to know them! It's turned out fairly well. But, as I have already expressed, things seem to be slightly different when you apply it to other things. Or maybe they AREN'T slightly different, and I'm just inhibiting myself but in any case, again, please send the question, I appreciate it

I don't want to pry, but could you elaborate a bit on your specific situation? Maybe I'm just not as enlightened, but to me it seems that there is a practical point... I mean like I said, I enjoy sleeping in all day, not going to class, and just playing video games all day... but will following that "excitement" in my life lead me to a good outcome, or just lead to me being a bum? So... yeah (though I thought it was funny the little disclaimer at the end that is at the end of everyone's "messages', that being "don't be attached to a result... if things don't change, that doesn't mean they really changed... your $500 on this seminar was well spend money...." shouted, of course, from the back of the train as they skip town...)

I like sleeping in every day and not doing any work... is that supposed to help me find what I should do in life? 'Cause I don't think that would lead me to a good career...

Saint Augustine wrote about God's Will and Free Will. A simple google search will turn up a lot of interesting articles. Then there was something that I learned in a classical literature class, when talking about books such as the Iliad and the Odyssey. Every mortal was given their "share" by the gods. As in, when they were born they were "destined" to get a certain "portion" of goods, money, fame, adventure, all the things in life. The actions of humans, however, could increase or (more commonly), DECREASE the "proportion" that you received. Typically someone who wants more than their fair share ends up breaking a law set by the gods and ends up with nothing. So I joked around with my math friends that the meaning of life was an oscillating sin function, and depending on what your actions are will determine your place on the curve, where the max you can be is one and the min you can be is negative one... talk about the meaning of life that's when I realized I sounded like my calc teacher but then I wonder how many life lessons can be learned from math, which I don't particularly like So pretty much with that you could say that there is a predestined thing, but it exists in a range of possibilities. You could end up anywhere within a certain range of possibilities. The possibilities may be predetermined, but which one you arrive at is completely up to you. But really, thinking about all of this stuff can drive you insane. Is it free will? Predestination? Spontaneous action, or long term effect? But then suddenly it dawned on me to drop the distinction. You COULD judge something as fate, but then that suddenly creates a whole class of "free will" actions that you may have done in the past that you now have to revisit. Or you can say that everything is "free will", but then what about all the random occurrences that happen for no rhyme or reason, or at least none that any human can see or feasibly explain? OR you can just drop the whole distinction altogether and just let things be ... which is the direction I'm leaning towards now... I just take a long time to internalize things and get 100% behind any one of my ideas

How about I just scour a variety of web forums until I meet someone else who's coughed up the $200. Should be easy, as all I'd have to do is follow the massive crowds that circle around them. I'll just ask how they did it without my having to pay $200. Hurray for the internet.

Didn't you see the link I posted for you...? http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=1566 It's a really great discussion about it. I had a lot of questions from a lot of conflicting sources and all the different opinions, but this thread really helped me in coming to where I am now. A lot of people tell you to not worry about it and just do your thing... but I couldn't so yeah, read through that thread.

Don't live at home now, but when I practiced at home in the past I'd also feel some negative feelings arise. My parents/family didn't know I practiced it. They just think I got a few books on it but didn't follow through on it... what they don't know is that I started really getting into it, they just don't see me I don't lie about what I do. I just don't go around broadcasting it either. Some people are open to the idea, other people are willing to try it themselves, others are okay to let it happen around them, while others are staunchly opposed and are pretty viciously against it... I don't know what your environment is though, but in general, discounting the parents' views on meditation, I find that lots of emotions from "the past" come up during meditation... a lot.

I think he was trying to say that he doesn't want to masturbate, but since he's been working on the sacral chakra, has been finding it harder to resist the urge than before..... at least I think that's what he was getting at To the OP, best advice I can give is... um... get your mind off of it somehow. Yeah. It's hard. I know, I'm a relative beginner. I'm an 18 year old guy. I used to be quite active..... I won't say how active, but yeah, quite active... but I keep trying. Build up slowly. Like for me, I'd go a week, and then just be like... ack, can't do it. Then I'd go up to two weeks, then be like, ack, I can't do it. Then go for two and a half weeks, and build up. Slowly and steadily. Try and focus yourself in other areas that grab your attention. Whenever I suddenly get the urge or something, I instantly start meditating (well if I can). If I'm in class and my thoughts start to wander, mini meditation. If I'm sitting on the computer and my thoughts start to wander, INSTANTLY off the computer and into meditation!!! (especially because the computer can be a dangerous place ) Especially if you've done lots of work on 1st chakra and grounding, this should be easy for you. Random stray thoughts arise? Just ground them out of you as soon as they come up. Are they coming too fast? (trust me, I know how fast they can come and keep coming...) well... that's the hard part, nobody said it would be easy

Yup, I must say it's great, and has really helped me with a lot of questions that I've had I mean I really can't say more than that! Well, I can, but it would really just end up sounding like the same thing over and over and over again for a paragraph. I could go on but........... yeah.

The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao... Or something along those lines As for the chakra/dan tien things, I must admit that really troubled me and even though people told me not to worry about it, I did. There was actually a thread here on the taobums about it, and here it is: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=1566 Take the advice that everyone else has given you as well, but that's specifically for your question about the chakras/dan tiens.

I agree, it's pretty noticeable. Even more so if you do not participate in the act for a week or two, then try it again. Quite a noticeable difference. Then again I never really noticed it until I started paying attention to it, so maybe it's all in my head anyway Though I agree (in a more general sense) that it's about overcoming desire/temptation and being able to have a strong willpower. It's not the physical ejaculation of semen, but the mental/spiritual/etc act of "caving into" some base desire that won't help you grow, as it's just self pleasure. Overcoming the selfish need is what is important, not what you prevent from coming out Though I don't know anything about taoist alchemy or anything like that, so there may be more to it... but that's why I said I agree generally with the idea that it's all about self restraint

I used to say that I was a huge procrastinator... But I realized I'm not "just" a procrastinator... I'm an... over achieving procrastinator... Like I'll put off something, like, say, studying for a math exam, because I'm reading a book on history and I'm too sucked into it Or philosophy. Or literature. Or something religious related. Whatever it is though, the subjects I study on my own are far more interesting than anything I have to do for whatever class I have next or something so I'll put the less interesting off for later.... yeah I'm kind of weird.

I mean nobody said it would be easy. And just because something can be done doesn't mean we are going to do it. I mean any one person COULD give up their possessions and become a hermit for the rest of their lives and become a Buddha. Does that mean they are going to or that it will be easy? No. It means they can do it. All I'm saying is that it can be done. Not that it will be a cakewalk or that we deserve it all... but that it can be done. And you asked if that would be like comparing yourself to the Buddha, and my response was, well, if you follow the same method then yeah, I guess you could draw the comparison. I mean if you give up some worldly life to achieve enlightenment then how is that different from any other person who gave up a worldly life to pursue the spiritual? And since when do you have to have "the good life" to throw away? I mean does it really make a difference if you give up your one small house or if you give up 10 huge mansions scattered across the countryside? If you only have one car to give up, then isn't that just as big of a sacrifice as giving up 10 useless cars? (heck, it may even be a BIGGER sacrifice because it's your only car!) Sorry for saying this, but it seems that you are jumping at a lot of things that aren't there.

Yes but there were plenty of other warriors and members of the upper class that didn't become enlightened with what they already knew He was perfectly "normal" within the context of his own society. But even now, most people in the modern world in a developed country have some level of schooling and most of them have certain religious exposure, that's a heck of a lot more than non-royal classes had back in the day, and even in the modern world a lot more than some people receive in a lifetime! Even if you compare a "normal" person today to a "normal" person back then, the normal person today (well at least judging from an American standard, as that's the education system that I was brought up in, can't speak for other education systems) is much more educated than your average joe back in the day. Even compared to an aristocrat of the old times, in some places a high school education gives you a great amount of exposure (there are some darn good schools out there), but even your standard 4 year college graduate, an "average" working guy, could have had the same levels of educational exposure. I really don't feel like going into too much detail on comparing education systems of the modern world, the ancient world, crunching numbers for the literary rates, levels of education, and blah blah blah but it seems to even out.

It'd be good to have a master, someone who's been there done that and can give you valuable pointers. Then again, what about the people "in the beginning" who didn't have anything except themselves and a place to sit, but somehow they got along fine Well the Buddha seemed like a pretty normal guy who did some self cultivation and then attained Buddhahood... kind of an oversimplification buuuuut... I think I'm a fairly normal guy doing some self cultivation so... I guess you could say that I am... I mean hey, anything is possible, right? Then there's Zhang Sanfeng being my taobum namesake so....

Couldn't really tell ya, as I'm not enlightened. Though if you read stories like Journey to the West and other folklore you hear of enlightened masters doing some pretty amazing things sometimes physical! (stuff like changing into animals, running fast, teleporting, lifting something heavy, etc) So... is there a physical aspect? Or do they just totally transcend physical all together? I don't know... I'm not enlightened!

For starting conversations with beautiful women... or with anybody in any social context: Not how I think about it, but in a more general way: people are people and probably have some of the same feelings and thoughts and insecurities as you do. Just talk to them. The mind can create so many hurdles and straight up barriers that you THINK are there... but aren't really there. No one is holding you back except for you, so push that guy out of the way and go talk to someone

Any tips for how to make it through after longer periods? I've been pretty... "busy" I guess you could say in the past, but recently I've been trying out the abstinence and holding back... Usually I get about a week or two weeks in, but there comes one point where suddenly I start thinking about something... then it's like a breach in a dam... other thoughts keep coming in and nothing I presently know how to do can stop it when one thought follows another and then it leads to something else and..... well let's just say I gotta start over from day 1 Anyway, any suggestions for this kind of thing as well?

I'm not a student, but I've read a few of his books and he has mentioned the kuji-in/kuji-kiri a few times, and this is generally what he said about them: Basically it comes down to human experience. People who know suffering know the kuji levels, and know whatever other mudras you might use. You can't really teach that. How I interpreted it? You can make the mudra for "strength of mind and body" and chant a phrase... but what good will that really do you? You can make a mudra and chant a phrase for how to calm your senses, or how to get along with nature, or how to "sync your thoughts with another person" so that you can both be on the "same page".... but will they really help you? No. It comes down to human experience and learning. That's the "secret" of the kuji. If you have had a hard life and have had to deal with suffering, then you are able to deal with suffering through strength of willpower. If you have been in a hectic situation in which multiple outcomes were hanging by a thread according to your decision and you panicked, then when you are in a similar situation you know how it feels and how to do it. If you have been in a dangerous outdoor situation but were able to find peace with the nature surrounding you and were able to survive in a still relatively healthy condition, or if you have been around people for years and have learned how to tell their mood by body posture, language, and have learned what to say/what not to say so that it comes naturally, then you can do it whenever you want. Even sudden insight into a situation, an understanding, however brief, how one thing fits into the totality of the universe, even if it is fleeting. That is kuji. Kuji are the representations of those things, maybe a mantra is a saying for those things... but the hand signal and the chantings are NOT the ACTUAL things themselves. Those things come from within. Come from experience. You can make the kuji and be reminded of some kind of archetypal image or some memory and it can bring you the strength needed to handle a situation. Or you can be able to summon the strength for a situation without ever needing kuji.

Figure out what I want to do with my life... at least with regards to academia/career. Self cultivation is pretty much a constant, but most people don't do only that with their lives... though it would be really cool to just drop everything and be a wandering monk type of person All while at the same time try not to get destroyed by my statistics class.... I found something I REALLY don't like doing and something I really can't figure out how to do.... So now I know that stat isn't going to be related to what I want to do with my life! one step closer!

No one is asking you to divulge anything secret. When someone asks "who is your teacher?" and someone says "John Chang", or when people are like, "what is your lineage?" and someone says "Mo Pai", people are like, "oh okay, I see." But if someone asks you for who your teacher is, and you flip out, you MUST realize that it only makes YOU look bad, and if you are not even rational enough to realize that then... as a beginner, I wonder what kind of training you are doing No one EVER asked for all those details. You are blowing it way out of proportion. No one wants a real name. No one wants a location. Or all that other junk you are throwing out there. The only thing that anyone ever asked for was the bare minimum info as a reference for credentials. Not anything like John Chang's real name, but enough to identify that you're not just some nut who's getting a kick out of insulting some Tao Bums Then again, if even HINTING at your master's name is akin to revealing John Chang's real name... then obviously you've got a very powerful master and you're just so far amazingly beyond any of us and... well do you realize how suspicious that sounds? I mean honestly? Even if you're not a master you should be aware of the things you say and how people will react, and do you not realize how suspicious a statement like that sounds? "even mentioning my master is like revealing John Chang's real name, THAT'S how advanced he is..." I mean.... I dunno.... it sounds really sketchy, that's all The way you overreacted to that question, and then the way that you overreacted and accused us of demanding all these details, NONE of which we actually asked for, SERIOUSLY reminds me of some immature people on youtube. I don't mean that as an insult, but maybe you should breathe, do whatever qigong you do, take a step back and read some of your past comments? Because to me it sounds like you are creating some things... or perhaps are too advanced to be acting this way on the internet. Like I said in another thread, it'd be great if we can trust everybody, but it's not always smart to do that, and not everyone will do that. People are going to want evidence or some kind of credentials, especially when you say some of the things you've said. I myself, like I also said before, am pretty non-partial on this matter. I don't train in Mo Pai or any lineage affiliated with that or with any lineage that may be seen as having reason to be disrespectful to John Chang or anything like that. In all honesty, I am of the opinion of "whatever helps you sleep at night". If you doing what you doing is cool with you, cool with me. I'm just letting you know as an observer how your actions might affect other people. That's all

Aight, look Mr. Steve/Mr. MPWay, I just figure I should point out some of the things that I've seen as an observer, but first of all, I'd like to mention a little bit about my background... Several years ago I was active in the martial arts community on youtube. And by that I really just mean I'd hang out, and see what videos other martial artists had up and talk about them with the poster and other members, giving opinions/critiques/etc. Every once in a while some guy would come on and say stuff like, "I don't know what u guyz r talkin about that guy waz week u r all noobs thinking ur better than u really r" So then we'd talk to that person and ask why he thought that way, things like that. Most of the answers we got were along those lines. "No that's not real martial arts." and "oh you think that guy is good/bad but you don't REALLY know what good/bad is. I haven't even studied for that long but I know what good/bad is I laugh when I hear ur commentz bcuz u gaiz dunno wut is really good/bad" (good or bad depending on the situation) So naturally we asked, "hey what style do you train in? What lineage? What teacher?" and naturally they would say things along the line of either "what r u gonna stalk me ur a gay stalker" or "you can't find him on youtube/google so I won't even bother." Those people would continue flaming and all that jazz and it was pretty obvious there were there to just slam some guys. Now some guys had some variations... like they would come in all hating and just slamming stuff, terrible grammar and punctuation, but then when a conversation would drag out they'd "clean up" their comments a bit, but all in all not say much. Why am I bringing this up? Well as an observer, I must say first off that I don't train in Mo Pai or any other lineage like that. I'm new to self cultivation and still have a lot to go even on the basics, so I don't think I am biased when I say that there are LOTS of similarities between your posts in this thread and the haters that you encounter on youtube. Several of your initial posts here seemed borderline inflammatory. You made rash generalizations, and even bordered on ridiculing people with statements such as "you guys who think you know qigong don't even know qigong" (kind of like the haters that said "you noobs dont kno wut reel MA is"...) Then when we ask for clarification on your training/lineage you are hesitant to give it, and only after several other posts in which a system has been outlined for you do you post where you are in that system that has been outlined for you... I must also add that I'm a college student, and while I enjoy studying things for the sake of learning, there are times when I don't have as much time to study something as I want, so I have to b/s some things. I don't want to brag... but with a good imagination/improvisation/acting skill I've gotten pretty good at it. I know stalling and fishing for info from the other person in order to construct a statement when I see it. And the way that you put off answering certain questions seems... fishy. On top of that, you repeatedly mention that you found your teacher through your own means, but in the same paragraphs you mention how you found your teacher through Mr. Chang... then go back to how it is all your work. Now I'm not calling you a liar, I'm going to be straight up with that. For all I know you've been on a path for a long time and have done lots of things so naturally you may refer to one thing and then refer to another, merely pointing out two separate points on your journey. But from an objective and unbiased standpoint, there are some things that raise suspicion, and I just thought that you should know what some of the observers might think.

Soooooooooooooooo...... What are some practices that a beginner can do to get started that aren't too dangerous? Pretty much what I do is zen meditation which I learned from my karate days, then some qigong related to tai chi (mostly simple stuff, mostly breathing/stretching like stuff, simple movement, learned it from Yang Jwing-Ming's book on Tai Chi 24 and 48 forms, as well as his book on Yang style Tai Chi), and the tai chi form itself, of course (though I few that more on martial arts terms and less with qi and energy work, even though I keep it in mind as well). I've been trying to get lotus position down when I meditate, and work on lotus position pretty much every day, though I can't always hold it for a long time So what's something else I can do in addition to all that?

Well, just throwing something else in that might be a general issue: Everyone keeps on talking about free speech and how we should have it but... there are limits to free speech. I have a right to publish a newspaper to say whatever I want, but if I say something that is slanderous then, well... that's not good. I have free speech to say what I want about myself, but if I were to say that I was a police officer, and people treated me different because of that... well that's kind of illegal! I technically have the free speech to say whatever I want about, say, some kind of contract, but if I get someone to sign that contract due to what I said to that person... hmm... I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there are laws about some of that stuff (slander, fraud, impersonations, etc etc). So, again, not saying anywhere HERE does that, but in general, if someone's speech has been proven to cause something that is harmful for another party, then some action needs to be taken. And I'm not very advanced, but there's some stuff that I know (improper kundalini work, for instance) can really mess a person up! Gotta watch out.