Sloppy Zhang

Surrender is a part of it. There are a lot of things that we have that we cannot take with us if we want to reach a certain place. We have to surrender those things so that we can move on to new places and acquire new things... or... well not really new things but... you know what I mean Surrender though has such a negative connotation in English, it feels awkward saying that you must surrender...

This is the kind of mix-up with sources and the stuff that I'm talking about (not trying to pick on you two or anything, but this is just an example of what can be seen anywhere ). Some sources say, as Spiritual_Aspirant pointed out, that the lower dan tien parallels the navel chakra. But then other sources, as pointed out by daoian, refer to the lower dan tien as paralleling the second chakra... which is not the navel chakra. It continues on with the middle region, some saying the middle dan tien corresponds with the solar plexus chakra, but seeing as how some list the solar plexus chakra as being in the navel region, thus corresponding with the lower dan tien, that leaves those sources to then say that the middle dan tien corresponds to the heart chakra. The sixth chakra and the upper dan tien are above all of this This confusion of course brings up sheng zhen's point, which is that they are separate (which is backed up by some experience, which is sounding quite good), and then xuexheng's excellent point about there really being only one reality, and each system is really just an imperfect way for us to describe the totality of that reality (another excellent point... though as sheng zhen said there may be other levels of reality out there, not to mention what sheng as personally experienced) See what I'm saying, this becomes quite the heap of info

Interesting analogy. If you were to draw a big circle around "what makes you able to bend the arm", it would certainly encompass all of thoes muscles, nerves, blood, etc. It'd be in one area, but each one is different. Something good to think about So as long as we're distracting ourselves in our pleasant bit of discussion, can one take from that post that you think they are different? I mean if one pertains to the proverbial apples, while the other pertains to proverbial oranges, that would make them quite different indeed, as opposed to two different ways of describing, say, one single apple.

Thanks for the responses guys. sheng zhen, thanks for linking to the other page So on a whole though, would you guys say that they are separate systems that talk about different things, or separate systems that talk about similar things? sheng zhen, from your comments in the thread you linked, it sounds like, from your perspective, they are different systems for describing different things, although a lot of sources out there hint that they are really just different systems for describing similar things, which is why parallels can be made between the dan tiens and specific chakras.

Nah, it'd be from the LHC of course But seriously, just looking around the world... there's a lot of bad stuff going on. There is a lot of ignorance, mistrust, and the like all over. It's quite disheartening... That was an awesome story Great way to lead by example.

Funny that you ask that way. One of the first questions I asked when I "started" thinking about this was: there are tons of religions in the world. So many say they are the ONLY religion, and every other one is going to burn. When we die, a lot of people are going to unhappy... wait... what if we're ALL unhappy? What if it's not just one group that's right, what if we're ALL wrong? So, yeah, that was kind of... pessimistic I guess, so that's when I became more free and open minded with reading new texts and stuff. I mean, each one said that they and they alone had the answers so... I don't know, maybe it was a covering all the bases tactic But the more I read, the closer I came to thinking: we're all right. Sure there maybe some differences here or there, but the essence, the stuff that's at the very heard of one religion, is all too often very close to what is at the heart of another. So when I began to read new things, I looked for the underlying message, not the pretty frivolous words: what was it saying, and how did it connect to other things? So I guess you can say I believe in lots of things, but in none of them at the same time

I am by now means an expert of Western Magick, or an expert in the knowledge of Western Magick but... well... from what I have read, the goal is the same. Cultivation. Higher understanding. The means are quite different. I've done some study of meditation and the like, as well as tarot, both of which are on going. Someone else put it this way, but the terms are quite good, and those are: low data high intuition, high data low intuition. Stuff like meditation, in which, perhaps as a byproduct, you are able to "do stuff", that is low data high intuition. You don't need "things", you don't necessarily need outside material stuff as focus, it's just you, sitting there, with your intuition with the purpose of cultivating a higher self. As many of us here no doubt know, it's a simple concept, but requires much dedicated practice. The other stuff, such as tarot, astrology, and a lot of western magick, involves high data low intuition. If you're doing tarot, you have an entire deck of cards from which to draw knowledge. With astrolog, you've got lots of calculations. Rituals, sigils, signs, potions, etc, all of these "things" are material objects, but they are there to serve as FOCUS. A symbol is supposed to serve as a focal point for thought and contemplation. You look at a symbol, maybe something of divine geometry, when you are in a state of meditation/contemplation, that is supposed to "get the gears moving". I may say it's "low intuition", but the whole idea is that the "high data", the "things", are there to help increase your intuition. Also, I think that I should mention that lots of magick texts were influenced by ideas that originated in "the east". Reading some bibliographies and bios of authors for lots of occult texts, many influential ones were written at the time of some of the crusades, which, as you can imagine, provided the chance for a major influx of knowledge from the east. Definitely something to think about, especially with the influences and similarities. Now, here's the "problem" as I see it: with lots of "stuff", it's easy to get sidetracked. Heck, it's the same with the "low data" practices. Some people complain about falling asleep during meditation! Some people fidget and are completely unable to sit still. If these people have so much difficulty with just SITTING there, imagine how hard it would be if you're juggling a deck full of cards, calculating the orbit of the stars, getting the right ingredients for a potion, all while trying to make sure you're drawing your sigil with perfect proportions! Sufficed to say, from what I've read, it'd be very easy to get caught up in "things". But perhaps because of that, it was VERY easy for a charlatan to pretend to be a wizard. I mean how does someone imitate a yogi? Strip down, sit under a tree, grow a beard... omm....? But how do you imitate a wizard? Learn basic chemistry, get some materials, draw some pictures, interpret cards, and make some flashes (yes I've drawn on major stereotypes for both...) Then again, perhaps as (most of us, I'm not sure) can be westerners, we've lived with the stereotype of the wizards. I've got some friends from China/Japan who view that "meditation chi magic" as just as bogus as someone from the west would view someone who claims to be a "magician". Then there's always the burn at the stake part, which was brought up So I'd say that each path has "pitfalls" that a "less willful" person can fall into. It's just that perhaps one is easier to do that than the other, or perhaps one is easier to pretend you are something that you're not, or perhaps we've just become desensitized to one group. Now, the reason I've taken up more to meditation and the like is because... well... I'm kind of a college student, and don't have the money to put into some of the things that certain western magick requires If I had the means, I would definitely be willing to try, and I would definitely put as much effort into it as I have with my "eastern" practices... it's just that I work with what I've got.

Wow... I must say that was very intense! And a lot to think about. I don't know too much about TCM, but that was a very good explanation, I appreciate it a lot

Delusions? Waaaaay too many. Sometimes I think that I am on this "journey" for all the wrong reasons, that deep down inside it's just ego driven, or that I'm searching for some "power" so everyone will look at me and think I'm cool... maybe I've deluded myself about this whole thing... but I continue on with my practice, help who I can when I can where I can and... keep going. I'm almost 19, who knows where I'll end up. I really just started this "path" a couple years ago, so looking back where I have traveled so far, I can still see where I started, while the rest of the path still remains far, FAR off in the distance... then I keep walking.

Interesting vid... For those who aren't up to date on the "latest" UFO stories, someone predicted that they would arrive on October 14. And coincidentally enough, there have been quite a few UFO sighting lately... or maybe I'm just paying more attention to them

I liked it

Through my experience... I wouldn't necessarily agree with the original post. As others have pointed out: I too have experienced situations in which someone knew exactly how I was feeling. There are situations in which I myself can tell something about someone or a situation. Now what explains this? Is it just experience? The time honored tales that every youth goes through, and that every elder person remembers? Is it an intuitive understanding of something bigger that you can see its appearance in the world around you? The answers and explanations may range from the very simple, to the very complex, from the very worldly, to the very spiritual. Some answers I have found for the time being, for others I am still searching. This specific topic is... well a large part of it falls into the "still seeking" category However, how do you define insanity? I mean really? Just for fun, haven't you seen those movies in which one character goes back in time, to try and stop a major disaster, but everybody else locks him up because he is insane? He knows what will happen, yet HE is the one that "can't discern reality from his delusional fantasies". (the movie I'm thinking about is the 12 Monkeys) Take it to real life: how can any one of us judge someone else as insane? How can we deem what someone else does as insane? Another line from the 12 Monkeys, someone said something to the effect of: "In the middle ages scientists would ridicule you if you went around saying you 'believed' in germs. They called you crazy. Now if you tell someone that you don't believe in germs, you're called crazy!" Barring obvious scientific breakthroughs and discoveries, there's a very scary truth to that: the definition of what constitutes "insanity" is, by its very definition, very, very feeble anyway

I definitely "spread the message" when the opportunity for spreading the message comes up in a normal conversation, not in the way that many uh... many other people spread their messages For example, I'm a member of some other forums, and every once in a while someone comes in asking how to deal with anxiety, or stress in their life. They mention that their friends, family, doctors, teachers, etc, have recommended that they get on drugs and stuff. Now, I'm not anti-modern medicine. I like modern medicine and all the good it has done for the world. But you shouldn't be taking more pills than you absolutely need in my opinion. Why should you be taking three or four medications for anxiety, ADHD, headaches, or whatever else you have when you may be able to benefit from meditation? Or just relaxing? So I always tell them to try meditation. Try looking at their lives and finding a way to change things for the better without drugs. It's more natural. They'll be happier. And they won't be spending as much money on drugs (though certainly if there is serious medical issues, you should follow the advice of the doctor... but if all you need is to learn how to get over stress and stress related illness, meditation and learning to calm yourself beats meds any day)

It's funny that when most people hear the word "lazy", there are lots of connotations for what you are doing... like perhaps you are sitting and watching tv, or playing video games, or staring at the wall, or not being productive in general. At first thought, I'd say I'm lazy all the time. In fact, right at this moment I'm being "lazy", the thing is... I'm doing stuff! Usually it's reading something that is of interest to me, or working on a person project, and since I'm a new member of this forum, I'm searching through old posts, finding new links, and I'm actually reading and learning a LOT of new and interesting things. xuesheng kind of hinted at it: we're conditioned to get certain things done by society. I am getting lots of things done, yet I am lazy... because I'm not getting the right things done... So just some thoughts.

Hey everybody, I just registered to the forums and.... well it looks really great, that's why I registered I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic school for a while, so I know a bit about where they are coming from, but I can't really say that I agree with all of their stances... as a kid though, I did lots of martial arts, and growing up I started to learn about martial art philosophy, the roots of that philosophy. I started in Karate, moved around, and recently found Tai Chi, which of course has daoist connections (not to mention legends involving, well, Zhang San Feng ) So now I don't really classify as this or that, I just do lots of reading, lots of discussion, lots of contemplative thought. I'm not in the game of judging something, really, and in fact there are still lots of Catholic ideals that I return to after reading something from another religion/philosophy, to see what insights I can get from new knowledge. And, well, I'll see you guys around

Definitely. The more I learn, the more surprised I am about how similar lots of things can be. At first I felt some hesitation about "moving away" from certain beliefs, but the further I "moved away", the more I realized that I wasn't really moving away from anything at all Simple green tea is great for me