Sloppy Zhang

Taoist Sexual Meditation by B.K. Frantzis.

Yeah, but it's one of those topics that I've seen for a while (I'm a young guy but I've been around spiritual discussion groups on and offline for a while). It's one of those topics that are all flash and no substance. Few people have experienced the true emitting of power that something like Tai Chi can produce, let alone emitting higher level spiritual energy from the likes of true masters (not to say there aren't people who have and can do that, including people on this board, because I do think there are quite experienced people on this board). But unless you have something tangible to work with, the topic is mostly theory. One of the crazies that used to post on the board before we got all PC, the ronnietsu al salaami guy (he had already stopped posting a lot by the time I joined, but I read a lot of his posts in the archives) posted something one day that really moved me: If you knew you were going to die tomorrow, what practice would you do? If I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I wouldn't be trying to practice fa jing out my dick as I was banging my girlfriend on the last night of my life. Rather, I'd be practicing some of the methods for stilling the mind and dissolving blockages. Now, here's the interesting point: dissolving blockages in the physical/energetic body can lead to a smoother discharge of energy, which might lead to discharging that energy out my male member (or other various parts of my body). Now since that is a technique which is not only interesting, but something which someone could practice NOW regardless of level (though their level would probably impact their output), THAT is what I think we should be discussing. Something that Frantzis mentions in one of his books is that Taoist practices are the same at a high level as they are at a low level. The difference between a master and a beginner is a master does the same techniques but more refined. There is no secret. You just have to do it. I think we should be focusing on those practices in discussion, because that's what people can APPLY. The results of those practices? They can be discussed once people actually, you know, have them. so for now, no, I don't even open threads that talk about "fa jing" or "astral projection" or "opening my third eye" and I don't even go on the same PAGE as "what is enlightenment" and "what are the guidelines of a real master" and yadda yadda.

Actually I just got the book the other day! I got a job that I spend long hours at. On off times I'm just chillin' with friends or significant other. My practice has taken a turn for "I don't have time to separate my practice, so now I must practice during the day" so the day requires moment by moment awareness, relaxed focused attention on my physical/energetic/emotional/mental processes while simultaneously being focused on what it is I'm doing, etc. And to be honest I've gotten to a point in my practice to where, well, I know the theory, now I just have to DO it. A lot of it. And also to be honest I feel like there are less and less truly compelling threads around here that make me want to log in and actually post something. One of the reasons I posted this is because I truly think Frantzis' tradition is fundamentally unique and separated from the more popular traditions out there, many of which are informed by Buddhism or Hinduism and are founded upon a thought process stemming from an object oriented language (Taomeow wrote a post many moons ago about the differences between spiritual paths that grew out of object oriented languages vs those birthed from process oriented languages which I think is STILL incredibly insightful and relevant). The tradition that Frantzis holds is native to China and based on a very fundamentally different view of the world. In some cases there are parallels and you can understand it by reflecting it through a familiar paradigm- Buddhism, for instance- but for the most part, it is refreshingly unique. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the intersection of sexuality/spirituality. In my personal life, I was sexual FAR before I was spiritual. In an effort to become more spiritual (or rather, to conform to the image of spirituality I had in my mind), I really messed up myself because I was trying to interrupt my natural sexual patterns because that's what a spiritual person "should" do. I'm still recovering from the trauma I did to myself in an effort to become more spiritual. The water method tradition, not only with its emphasis on naturalness, but the 70% rule applied to things you do want to change, was profoundly helpful not only in healing, but in realizing some inherent spirituality that I tended towards- yes, even with regards to sex. I wanted to introduce it here because more than a few people have exhibited thought/behavior which, in my mind, stems from the issue of their natural sexuality running into spirituality. The emphasis on absolute celibacy, absolute adherence to retention, freaking out every time you "spill your seed" and all that jazz. It's hurting people more than it's helping people. The Taoist views on sexuality Frantzis presented in "The Great Stillness" were amazing, and the insights and techniques he presents in this book are astounding on a whole other scale. Basically, I don't think the water method is represented enough on this board

There's actually a pick of him in his early 20's in the book! I was pretty shocked.

This the place you mean? http://thedivinescience.org/ A couple of the higher level people from vsociety.net run it. I haven't taken their classes, but some of their public articles (under Prophecy and Veos, including a commentary on IIH) are fairly solid.

Same! Sorry if this post kind of rambles, but there are a lot of intersecting points I'd like to make with regards to IIH... I spent a lot of time trying to really get into IIH- make it work for me. I really liked that it was a full fledged western system that gave you the tools from the ground up. Not just copying visualizations, but giving you the tools to create your own things. So I've come to understand a lot of it thanks to another system of practices I've been with for a while- B.K. Frantzis' Taoist water method tradition. So I'd start off by highlighting these two quotes from earlier in this thread: I've definitely found that the translation in the most popular and readily available English translation, as well as groups like the one over at vsociety.net that are practicing IIH tend to approach it in a very "yogic" fashion. Somewhat rigid, highly controlled, and laser focused. To borrow some of Frantzis' terminology, a very "fire" method (he outlines his distinctions between fire and water methods in his book, "Relaxing Into Your Being"). Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that, if you are starting off from a place of rigidity and tight focus, well, getting yourself more tightly wound aint going to do much good, now is it? Part of my problem was that I was already pretty tightly wound. And I approached IIH with a certain fervor that, well, wound me up a lot more, in not very good ways. Mistele's stuff is great, and part of the differences in his approach stem from the fact that he's coming at it from a very "water" elemental fashion. "Traditional" Bardon "lineages", if you will, typically have people starting out with the fire element first, and then cycle through the other elements (for instance, the order of elements that you accumulate during the elemental accumulation exercises, and even the senses you work with during the visualization exercises, senses being tied with the elements). But it's important to realize that in the Bardon system/cosmology, elemental beings representing every element have lessons to teach in the magician's path. And while at the end of the day, the magician will master every element and learn skills from each of those representatives, if you are from a culture that is predominantly "fire", predominantly tightly wound, wouldn't it make more sense to take your lessons from the element that will most immediately benefit you? And so Mistele draws from water. This too is interesting and something I've taken note of, especially with regards to Frantzis' material and the Taoist trajectory of learning that he presents. In the Hermetic system outlined by Bardon, physical, energetic, and "spirit" levels are worked on all at once progressing through each steps. Frantzis presents a series of 8 energy bodies in his books, which can roughly be broken up into those three categories- physical, energetic, and spiritual. Interesting in Taoism, the physical practices are taught first- alignments, physical chi, etc. and refined to form a base that then the energetic practices are built on top of- the energies of the mind, the emotions, psychic energies, etc. And then finally, the spiritual energies are dealt with- energies of karma, your personal essence, and then the body of the Tao. It's also worth noting that Bardon's stuff is very "high level". Mistele writes an article in which he shares this view, saying that Bardon's steps are really the basic, broad swaths. Sure, someone could just practice from the book and might gain some attainments in 10, 20, 30, or so on years. But within each step there is quite a bit of "implied" knowledge. One can see this when comparing the steps to qigong. For instance, in parts 2 and 3 of the physical lessons in Bardon, he has you work on "pore breathing". Breathing vital essence into and out of the body, and even projecting it into the area or other objects. What is this skill but, wait for it... qi projection! Even in qigong this is a high level skill. But what about things like storing energy in the dantien, the meridians/nadis? In my opinion, and Mistele seemed to have this opinion as well, they were still there! A magician could certainly go and study with a qigong teacher or a pranayama teacher to get more in depth about these topics, with the implication being that they were all part of steps 2 and 3 of development. Now certainly other teachers in things like qigong or yoga might have other attainments beyond the equivalent steps in Bardon, but when you compare their system (like the comparison between Frantzis and Bardon) there is still some kind of parallel- physical, mental, and spiritual progression, in some varying stages with any "complete" system out there. Also something I've found when looking at other systems is that while most of them have techniques to touch on different levels, they might not all be presented in the same order (like how Frantzis' progression is a bit different than Bardon's) but they're all there. Now speaking of these parallels, I was reading excerpts from the book about Wang Liping, "Opening the Dragon's Gate" on google books, and some of the progression outlined there in the Dragon Gate sect sounded strikingly like the progressions and practices found in IIH. Now obviously some steps were different, names were different, and the elements worked with were adjusted for Chinese culture and things like that. Bu the fundamentals were the same- a balanced development of mind, body, and spirit, working with feeling and accumulating the energies of the self and the surrounding environmental/universal ones, cultivating stillness and focus to work with said energies, and a variety of practices to deal with that. Now recently a book was published that contained some practices from the Dragon Gate sect (the Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu). It would be VERY interesting to compare the practices in there with Bardon's, compare them to the accounts in Opening the Dragon's Gate. I wonder what one might discover This article here was written to provide a general overview of Bardon's life and a bit about his background. Particularly interesting are the circumstances regarding his incarnation into this world. If you believe the sort of rules that are referenced, well, it's one potential explanation for these sorts of things: http://forums.vsocie...ic,15084.0.html Now regarding the above and all that, obviously there is some implication about self study and inferring some techniques and whatnot, without being directly taught. I'm sure someone will say, if not just think, "well why not just go find the master and learn that way?" Well Chinese culture was influenced very much by Confucianism, and there is something that was told to me many times by my Chinese professors in school who were fond of testing us on things that weren't taught in class or in the book, and that is they are to provide one corner, and it is up to us to discover the other three. A bit cheeky, but I believe that with the proliferation of texts and hints and references many masters are dropping out LOTS of corners. With the right insight, dedication, determination, and a bit of luck, I think one can discover a LOT of things on their own with regards to the structure and development of a practice. With that, one can make the practice their own and not get stuck following a rigid path (rigidly following a path laid out by a master was SO last century).

So a little while ago, Seth Ananda made an interesting thread about "body armor", being open, and energy transfer. That thread started out looking at that through the lense of ejaculation and such, but I'd like to broaden that discussion a little bit. Going off some of my past threads and experiences, I've started to "feel" a lot more, not only myself, but also other people. In some cases it's gotten downright bothersome. I've tried to figure out the cause for some of this. From B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body", I seem to recall him giving a warning about dissolving past the aura, but I can't find it. In some of my practices, I'd have the feeling that I hadn't completely "let go" unless I dissolved past the aura, so I did, and, well, this happened I've also examined my living situation for the past three years- I've either lived in a dorm, surrounded by people, or an apartment, also overfilled. Not a lot of personal/alone time. I've started to feel like all eyes are on me, and anything I have to do I have to justify. People ask, "what are ya doing?" "are you okay?" "What's the matter?" "How've you been?" "hey, that looks cool, what's that?" everything. If I leave, take a walk, or do go somewhere, I always feel like at any given moment, "all eyes are (or at least, can be) on me." (coincidentally, just today I wondered if this is how high profile celebrities feel). In any case, I recalled the thread I've linked to above, and that there were other cultures who were "open" and managed to work their way through. Just recently blasto made an interesting post about how people who are "open" (as in, heart chakra opened) also have to be strong: So I'd just like to hear everyone's opinions and/or experiences of being open, and any suggestions about how to handle it, how to balance it, etc etc. Because for me, I'm always trying to find some solitary place, I'm always trying to separate myself off. Yeah, "all is one" sounds good in theory, but suddenly it's like you can NEVER get away. Very little personal space. It seems like every time I decide to rope off a "personal space", I'll come back 10 minutes later and see someone rummaging through my spot, or chilling there saying, "I've never sat here before, but for some reason I just wanted to hang out here today!" It's just not working out for me, so reading this old post I thought- I dunno, maybe my practices have started melting away that body armor, and I keep trying to put it off, but I can't put on more than I am taking off. But taking it off feels uncomfortable, sometimes even violating, so I still gotta find a way to work through this....

Short answer: yes. Alternate answer: it depends. Complete answer: The great thing about Frantzis is that since he's trained with many different masters in several different lineages in several different styles, he has the perspective to see not just WHAT the different variations are, but WHY they came to be that way, HOW they develop the energy or the body differently, what is best for each situation. So when he gives you a breakdown of the differences between a Yang or Wu version of a movement, or a Shanxi or Hebei style of xingyi, you come away with it not knowing which one is "better", but knowing that each movement does exactly what it was designed to do, and therefore what method you should do depending on what your overall goal is. I do believe that he says that the 100-0 stance is best for overall chi building- whether you want to do it for physical health or for martial power. If I recall correctly, he seems to allude to the fact that other stances, from 60-40 to 70-30 to 80-20, affect the body differently than the 100-0 stance, I think helping it build more muscle (but don't quote me on that, I don't recall if that was from Frantzis or another source). Ya Mu also brings up another point that Frantzis also mentions multiple times in multiple situations- xingyi is MARTIAL. It is great as a physical system. It can generate a lot of chi energy. But it sort of caps out in terms of spiritual development. Now for Frantzis, he's pretty upfront that, in his opinion, Bagua is the full package- be it physical health, combat prowess, or spiritual development. Depending on your lineage of Tai Chi, it might also provide a full on physical, energetic, and spiritual path to development (the lineage he inherited from Liu Hung Chieh is one such lineage). That said, San Ti is still great, and Frantzis makes a point that though his main teacher, Liu Hung Chieh, alternated the practices of Tai Chi or Bagua depending on the situation, Liu Hung Chieh practiced the five elements of xingyi every day because they were excellent methods of energizing the physical body.

I would suggest Frantzis' DVD's on the topic. A bit pricey, yes. But worth every dollar. He goes into GREAT detail. It is a very complex posture. However (according to Frantzis) it is one of the BEST postures to build a vast reserve of chi, whether you want that for health or for martial arts.

There's nothing wrong with building muscle. The body moves due to the contracting and releasing of muscles. It just happens. The PROBLEMS arise when you start carrying unnecessary tensions in the body. Now lots of people who workout for the muscles and the body and the "look" of being "fit" put the muscles through hell to sculpt a good body, which is great, the problem is that they learn to carry unnecessary tension in their body, which in the long run can be bad. So certainly exercise and lift weights. But also learn how to detect when you're carrying tensions, and learn how to let it go. I, as always, suggest B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" to learn that method. It goes great with muscular workouts.

If you get a chance to train with him or one of his senior students, do it.

Here's my two cents: I'm thinking that most people who have gone through/are going through a "kundalini awakening" are doing nothing of the sort. Rather, they are experiencing some powerful energy experience- opening a channel, opening some energy center, experiencing an extreme blockage, overheating their system, etc- and have self diagnosed their experiences as symptoms of a "kundalini awakening." The fact of the matter is that they are most likely NOT going through a profound spiritual experience. At best they might be experiencing a psychosomatic experience which is mostly mental, and at worst they are in the middle of a potentially harmful system overload. On the flip side, there may be a number of individuals who are not consciously aware that they have developed a high level of intuition, insight, will, energy, awareness, wisdom, etc but who are nevertheless making great leaps and bounds in the fields of raising the human condition physically, mentally, psychically, and spiritually. They may be athletes, scientists, movie directors, writers, artists, teachers, police officers, soldiers, waiters, chefs, hobos, entrepreneurs, cogs in the machine of society, etc, but in some way shape or form they are elevating their lives and the lives of those around them. I'd go out on a limb and say there are probably many "non-spiritual" people who are far more spiritual than the "spiritual" types who stave off ejaculation for a month and who have convinced themselves that their increased body heat and ever increasing mental instability and decreasing ability to exist in society are signs that they are "awakening". Not to say that there aren't legitimately spiritual people who go through powerful energetic events which leave them less able to happily exist in a toxic society. Because there are. The trick is being able to accurately know which person is which, and even TRICKIER is being able to honestly appraise your own self and figure out to which camp you belong.

Not to go down the path to another gender thread, buuuuuuut.... Guys ain't the only ones who masturbate Anyone, men or women, can be a selfish lover. Anyone, men or women, could use the other just as an accessory to orgasm. I think there are a lot of different possible explanations depending on the situation. For instance, sexuality is pretty repressed in terms of how kids are expressed to it growing up. I don't know about the girls, but guys are conditioned pretty much to "jerk off" in as fast a manner as possible. Usually because you're trying to hide it. Get off in the shower. Get off in your bed to get rid of morning wood. Rub one out in as little time as it takes or else risk someone catching you do it. And God forbid someone find you doing it! Not only because sex is bad, but if you're a guy, jerkin it means that you're not man enough to be having sex with a woman (which is its whole other can of issues) So the initial experience of sexuality- that of your own body- is necessarily a solitary experience. It's no wonder that the next step of experiencing sexuality- experiencing it with a partner- is for many a continuation of the same- a mostly solitary experience about what feels good for you, and what gets you directly off. I'd imagine for many there's a pretty big learning curve- realizing there's another person, realizing what makes them feel good, realizing what makes you BOTH feel good, realizing what makes you feel good and gets them off, realizing what makes them feel good and gets you off, and what makes you both feel good AND get off. I'd say that that's a pretty darn big time commitment. It takes time, it takes effort, it requires practice, it involves putting yourself out there, it involves letting someone in, it involves failing, it involves losing face, it involves being honest (sometimes brutally), it involves taking another person's honesty (sometimes brutally), it involves trying again. Most people aren't ready to undertake that journey PERSONALLY. Let alone with another person. So I'd wager most sex, from any/all genders/orientations, in "modern society" (the definition of which is, itself, a whole other bag of issues), is most likely going to carry an inherent element of selfishness first and foremost (unless aforementioned process, or analogous process, has already been underway)

It's not an all or nothing situation. And it shouldn't be. Some days or weeks you're going to be horny as fuck. You're gonna want to blow off some steam. It happens. Don't feel guilty about it. Some days or weeks you're going to be busy with life, friends, exercising, your practice, etc, and you just won't feel like masturbating. So don't. Then one day you're going to sit down and realize you're incredibly fucking horny and you've got every right to be. It's not a problem unless you MAKE it a problem. As your practice develops and as your awareness grows, you're going to be able to refine your vision. You may come to the conclusion that, after you can develop and circulate energy, you don't EVER want to ejaculate. Great. Or you might get to a point where ejaculation feels good and afterwards you feel fresh rejuvenated and rested. You've got to pay attention and act in the needs of the moment.

When you change up your life because of a practice, I think the best way to succeed is by where the change is coming from- your practice should fuel your change, not the other way around. Here's what I mean... If you think you should quit masturbating, or become a vegetarian, or stop eating chocolate, or stop watching tv, in the hopes it will "better your practice", you will most likely fail. Why? Because you're trying to force yourself into something that, on some level, you don't "need" but you only "think" you need. You're constantly going to be looking "backwards" thinking "I could be masturbating right now and feeling good" or "I could be eating that tasty BBQ sandwich right now" or "I could be watching my favorite tv show right now" and you're going to fail, most likely. But, if, over the course of escalating your practice you start to notice that your energy is a bit different after masturbation, if you start to realize that after eating heavy meat you don't feel so great, if, as you start watching tv, you begin thinking "I could be practicing right now", THEN you start to change your life in a CONSTRUCTIVE way. When you do this, you aren't looking "backwards" in to what you have "given up." But you're looking FORWARD into bettering your practice. It will keep you motivated, keep you happy, and make you more successful in the long run. So by all means, keep masturbating. It's fun, it feels good, it's safe, and doesn't hurt anybody. If it makes you feel good, whatever. Keep practicing as you're doing it. Maybe one day, after masturbating, you'll go "huh... I don't know if I like the way my energy is after I jerk it." And maybe you won't.

I think this is the most coherent post of sinfest's I've ever read

I second the suggestion for Bardon's books. Very solid. Cuts out all the crap and gets right to the practices. You want a practical system of legitimate self cultivation from a Western tradition? Go Bardon. Now, many moons ago Taomeow made a post that really struck me and it's something that has been on my mind since then, and I have found the guideline to be VERY helpful in distinguishing between different systems. And that is: their mode of language use, whether it is a "state" oriented language/system, or a "process" oriented language/system. Many western systems, and many systems that come out of India (including yoga and Buddhism) are very "state" oriented. You "are enlightened". You "are an adept". You have "attained the state of X". You have "fallen from the state of Y." Other languages and cultures have a more "process" orientation. The Taoism of native Chinese culture is process oriented. This makes things a tad different in terms of overall outlook and processes. Now there are many Chinese systems that are hybrids- Taoist that got intertwined with Buddhism, throw in some flashes of Confuscianism, etc etc. Interestingly, I read "Opening the Dragon's Gate", the book about Wang Liping, and compared it to what I had read of Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics." There were some VERY interesting similarities as far as what steps were involved, the description of the processes, signs of attaining certain points, etc etc. But again it's pretty status oriented. I spent a long time trying to blend Eastern/Western practices. It was a headache. It seemed very forced and unnatural and very "head" oriented. I found Taomeow's general explanation to be generally applicable, simple, and elegant. And once you realize that some systems are coming at things from fundamentally different places and going to fundamentally different places... well I just stopped caring about trying to make them fit together. But hope you find something that works for you. It's what you gotta do!

At the extreme of yin comes... EXTREME YANG! Plenty of very advanced and very respected people around here have done/still do Kunlun for sure. But I always found the marketing and specific story point details to be rather... interesting.... Not trying to start a fight... but maybe watch one...

If anyone gets the book, a review would be appreciated Got one of the versions of the old one (maybe second one? The one with the standing practice and supplementary practices). Just wanted to see how this one compares. And to uh... *ahem* see what the Kunlun story is nowadays..... prepares for kunlun drama

I like to hit the clubs and pick up chicks on the weekends. With my dick. Literally. I took the quick and easy route, seduced by power and fame and parlor tricks, I never finished my training

Proven. Verifiable. Repeatable. Results. That beats theory, mysticism, dogma, and superstition every time. Evidence? Exhibit A: Mo Pai. Your stuff is good? Prove it. What? You think you don't have to? Fine. Just don't ask why people don't pay attention to your stuff as if it's some big mystery. You might be having daily interactions with higher spiritual consciousnesses and subtle spiritual energies. But guess what? For most everyone else out there, it's about as real to them as their favorite fairy tale. It's a nice story. Maybe has a good moral. Fun to listen to. Fun to tell. Would they make life decisions based on it? Well when push comes to shove... doubtful. Make those spiritual forces as real to people as gravity? Well people start to pay attention.

Word on the street is this is a question you work with at a certain point in meditative practice.

There is yielding, and there is compromise. My first martial art was karate. Very hard, very rigid. I visited a friend's Wing Chun school one day. The teacher told me to hold my arm at an angle to deflect blows, and to relax it, because in Wing Chun you don't get all tensed like karate people tend to be. So he threw a bunch, it hit my arm, and my arm flew back and hit me in the face The teacher said to me "relaxed, not limp." It's a principle that's also in the internal martial arts. You want to be relaxed, supple, but not limp and flopping around. Everyone hears the saying "the tree that bends does not break." Right. Well the tree bends. But the tree also has its own internal structure that keeps it upright. You may yield, but in yielding you should never compromise your own "structure." The problem that I see many people make when they start to apply their philosophy of yielding is they compromise themselves over and over. Someone pushes them? They move back. Someone shoves them? They move back. Someone takes their cookie? They let them. Someone punches them? They turn the other cheek. This just gives the bully another victim, and the bully doesn't care. This leads the person to repeatedly become victimized, and here they are thinking they're being all saintly and monk like. I don't think there's anything respectable about that, and I don't think that's the "way." And if it is, it's a pretty shitty "way" that basically teaches you to get ass raped by a bully and just let it happen. You've got to establish your boundaries. And you've got to show people that you're flexible, but you aren't going to compromise themselves. You'll bend but you'll never fold. If you're around a guy who's like this: It's pretty easy to "fool around" back. Don't just stand there and take it. Laugh and move and shove back and show him you're as fun a guy as anyone else, you'll play around, but you aren't going to let him get a hold on you, that you aren't going to just stand there like a punching bag and get hit. Maybe learn some grappling, and learn a couple of good Judo throws. A guy comes around and puts his hands on you, tries to put you in a wristlock (hard to do if the other person sees it coming/you don't have a good set up), toss him to the ground. And laugh when you do it and help him up and be like "oh haha, sorry man, must have tripped...."

Fuck that shit man, you're a badass, you laid him out! What exactly is your definition of martial arts? Because let me tell you, you used some martial arts on someone. Here's my experience with violence: Some people only understand violence. Some people push, and the more you step back, the more they push, just because they can. Some people won't stop until they ARE stopped. Sometimes it is a matter of actual "violence", in which they want to HURT you. And the only way they stop is if they know they're going to get HURT. That's when things get tricky because, well, that's how gang violence starts, and that's how people get killed. Sometimes it's a matter of "respect". They just want to know that you can act because they feel that, hey, as a man, you should be able to act. Sometimes it's not even a matter of winning or losing, just a matter of whether you're "man" enough to compete. I'd say that you pretty much exceeded the respect category! Just hope he doesn't come back and stab you... you should probably take a gun to work, just in case...

How does a river deal with the inertia of a rock dropped into its path?