Sloppy Zhang

Relaxing into your being has a simple down to your dantien breathing exercise, which should do wonders (unless, of course, you're REALLY messed up). Basically, as Frantzis writes, you need to get "out of your head." You've got to figure out where you are tense and release that, rather than doing things which lock it into place. So breathing hard, straining your head or your eyes to "focus", or adopting a rigid "meditating position" will, more often than not, reinforce or add to the tension, since most people have poor posture and breathing habits to the extent that a "physically healthy" sitting posture is actually uncomfortable! I did (and still do, mostly because I like it, not out of necessity) most of my meditation and relaxing lying in bed or reclining on a couch, simply because I could RELAX in those postures. Sitting upright, either on a chair or on the floor, as well as standing, was uncomfortable for long periods. It took me a while before my muscles let go and I was able to straighten my spine enough to adopt a comfortable, long term sitting or standing posture, which relied on comfortable, natural anatomy to fight gravity, rather than musculature. It also did wonders for my day-to-day posture as well Energy Gates takes the basic meditation and dissolving to a much more in depth level, so if you are looking to get a book sometime soon, I'd put that on the top of your list.

I suggest you get and read and practice "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by B.K. Frantzis to get some perspectives on what might be happening, because a lot of different things might be happening. You could be tensing the muscles in your head and neck. You could be straining your eyes. You could have your awareness and intent all in your head. You might be overstimulating the energy centers up there, and not be correctly grounding your energy. It also talks about how to take deep breaths and being relaxed. Basically, you have to ALLOW the breath to enter. It's not you taking huge gulps of air, and packing it into your lungs, compared to not doing anything. That may be a reason why you take in more air when you aren't working for it. And then, when you are relaxed, your chest muscles might be tight, or you might be slouched a bit, compressing the chest and diaphragm, which might impact the amount you can breathe in even when "relaxed". I'm telling ya, I had no idea how UNrelaxed I really was, even when I thought I WAS relaxed, until I actually learned how to relaxed. I also didn't realize how detrimental my day to day posture was for breathing until I actually tried to breathe, and realized the optimum amount of air just could not physically get in there! If you don't want to get the book, just pay attention to your body, and move where it needs to go.

It's on facebook. And everyone knows you can't lie on facebook. Thanks for linking to the real history should put a stop to some threads we've been having.

I actually gave a couple of examples in which it is NOT a choice- namely things like racial violence, or cultural violence, where someone looks at you and decides you need to be hurt or be killed. And your best bet is to pray they don't just shoot you, but come at you in a manner in which you can defend yourself. Well just 'cause it worked for you doesn't mean it is applicably broadly. Just be careful about making generalizations. I prefer to look at and account for all possibilities, even the improbable ones, rather than writing them off as unlikely only to have them come back and bite me later. You can't train for that. You can't train for standing in the hot dog line and somebody just deciding to stab you. You can't train for a drive by (well maybe how to dive for cover, if their first shot doesn't kill you). You can't train for stray bullets. But that doesn't mean you can't train for people who want to kick the shit out of you. That doesn't mean you can't train for somebody who comes at you with a variety of blunt or edged weapons. Or ballistic weapons at close range. Know your limitations, but don't let those limitations limit your training. You are referring to organized political groups. And sure, they are most likely not going to be interested. Well guess what? The power is most likely going to be on tonight. But I still have an emergency backup flashlight with backup batteries in my home. An angry, unorganized person who hates you can lash out violently at you just as easily (and, depending on your region) just as likely as the infrastructure of the power companies suddenly failing. But that doesn't mean you can't learn to defend yourself, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't get a backup flashlight just to prepare.

Yes. It's called don't give your energy into that paradigm. I've never been a big fan of the theory that sexual energy is the foundation for everything. That sex is at the root of all the energy. I do believe sex is powerful, and that sexual energy can be manipulated and is very strong. But I believe it is only one kind of energy. I do not believe it is the only kind, nor do I believe it is the strongest. I suggest you examine some of Seth Ananda's posts on body armoring for some perspectives on cultures that have a different view of sex, one that doesn't make sex draining if you have it. Many of your ideas are socially constructed, and not inherently universally applicable. Well in the "ancient days", men kind of did this thing where they took what they wanted, woman's pleasure be damned. If a guy or a country had a woman you wanted, you killed the guy or invaded the country and took the woman. Or you at least tried in the process. Or you got nothing. The issues we have now in our society are rather unique. We have "civilized" rules- I can't just kick down my neighbor's door, cut him down, rape his girlfriend, and then invoke the "might is right" clause in court. Women are people too. As such, you gotta play this game where you are attractive to a woman where she consents to you. And women have to play this game where they attract the attention of the guy they want, because many women still see it as a world where the guy has to make the move. Some women have gotten the brilliant idea that, whoa, they don't have to wait for the guy to make the first move! But culturally, I think that while people realize that's an opportunity, they don't really go through with it. But then you could go even more ancient, and look at the matriarchal societies, before the invasion of all the paternalistic ideas and whatnot. And I have no idea how those worked, but somehow I get the feeling that women weren't invading countries because they're supply of men was declining I also don't think that they were telling their men to force their sex energy upwards, but I'm not an ancient, matriarchal historian. Taomeow seems to know a bit about cultures prior to the invasion of patriarchal cultures and religion, so maybe she can shed some light on that. Bottom line: You have to realize that pretty much everything you are asking and have asked are about rules that are entirely constructed in society by people, intentionally or not. Despite being pitched as such, none of them are universal truths. If you choose to live life by those rules, that's on you. If you feel you MUST retain and sublimate your pent up sexual frustrations towards art or whatever, be my guest. Just realize that, even now, other cultures do not necessarily abide by that.

You should say what you want, and not care who takes offense. If someone is bothered by it, that's their problem. Just as long as you don't go insulting someone personally or making a racist comment, the mods won't get ya People like to think back to the good old days. But thanks to the internet, we can even get some footage from those good old days. And we find some silliness.... Really? Because that event has been a singular source of mud slinging to this very day! My sister came by and told me that she had seen a demonstration from a new Kung Fu school. I asked her what style, and she was like "I don't remember, but he said his teacher was the only person to ever defeat Bruce Lee." Ooooooh boy, just from that I knew EXACTLY who she was talking about. And the Bruce Lee camp points to that as a success for Bruce Lee. And then the opposing camp says "nah, he could have killed Bruce Lee several times with his lethal techniques, but held back because he's a true master, that's why it looked like he might have lost, but really it was a win, but really everyone had to pull them apart, but really, it was a..." If you're going to hold back, the only way you can legitimately claim that is if you dominate the fight otherwise, similar to the Tai Chi masters who would reportedly hardly hurt people, but fling them right off the Lei Tai. Otherwise it sounds like you're making excuses. Point is- you can dress it up all you want, but most of this stuff is fodder for political pissing contests. But nooooo, it's all cultural, traditional, honor, blah blah blah. It's people pissing on each other and calling it rain. That's true so long as you don't get into fights. But you can't comment on what didn't happen. Just because one might get away by walking with a purpose, another might not because somebody decided one day that they wanted to join a gang, and had to get in by killing someone of your particular race. So you can't really determine across the board that street smarts is a better investment then physical, combative self defense measures. My experiences with foreign countries is that it helps a LOT to know the language and the culture. Even just a little bit. Be humble, try to learn. I see a lot of Americans go abroad and act like they own the place. They're just asking to be duped out of everything they've got. Know what to say, know what to wear, learn the customs and the manners and the gestures. But that won't work against, say, an anti-foreigner extremist who's determined to take you down a couple of notches. So you gotta know the limits for each of your tools. The right tool for the right job.

I also think the conversations are valid. I thought it was a good point, that people who are involved in combat can be really messed up. Even criminal street thugs usually come from broken homes, a history of violence, emotional and social problems, etc. These are the people you COULD run into, and I think it is important to realize this from a self defense point of view, but it's also a good point from the point of view as a "gut check"- I've seen a lot of guys who thought they were "bad", who walk around acting invincible because they know some skill or the other. Even on this forum there have been such people, whether they could actually back up what they said, who knows. Television and movies have glamorized violence. What guy WOULDN'T want to be an action hero? But it's a shitty life and there are lots of nasty issues. Just the hand full if fights I've been in have caused me FAR more grief than they were worth. Sure, lessons learned. But never something I'd want to live my life by. So, I dunno, I just thought it was a good point that isn't often considered on the surface.

See if more people did that, then we wouldn't have so many problems with teachers stringing people along. As a big person myself, I've been a target all my life for people looking for that "size badge of honor", I'm familiar with the tricks It's also I'm familiar with the ways that fights can be successfully avoided or diffused without actually fighting- which I think is a crucial step to self defense, but should be balanced with actual fighting training. Don't rely too much on fighting- or you'll get into fights that could have been avoided. And don't rely too much on your diplomacy, or else you won't survive fights that you couldn't avoid. Thanks for linking to the article, and I hope your daughter enjoys the martial arts And don't worry too much if she starts and stops for a while. I did that a bit as a kid, my parents thought I had quit martial arts, but really I was just pondering and internalizing stuff. I knew I wanted something as a kid, but I didn't quite know what it was. But once I knew that martial arts could take me where it really was, I totally threw myself into it.

Excellent post, especially this point.

GREAT post Seth A couple of points I'd like to zoom in on.... Training in real fights is much better than many schools that market themselves as "traditional" but have no real combat training. Thaw WOULD be true, IF martial arts marketed themselves as having weight classes and equivalent levels of aggression. But many martial arts, especially Wing Chun, market themselves as being able to train people to defeat people, even opponents who are stronger and faster. And that sounds great, "Wing Chun was developed by a woman!" and everything, until you realize that a lady might not run into Joe Bob on the street, Mr. Average in everything. She just might run into a criminal Brock Lesnar, or a criminal version of your already borderline buddies. And for the people who seriously think they're going to eye gouge, then hit in the throat, then the groin, then the knees, successfully WITHOUT being at least 3/4 as big, strong, and tough as somebody else and at with at least as much fight experience, they are putting themselves at risk. Not to mention some extensive cross training and actual fighting experience. Sounds like a boss Sounds like it! And thanks again for relaying your experiences!

I know, I'm just saying that it could sound awfully bad

In the end.... it probably doesn't. Focus on life for a bit. If you're unemployed, do whatever you can. If there is something that you've been interested in, now could be the time to do it. You could also try volunteer organizations- if you aren't getting money anyway, at least you can make some connections. I don't know much about your area, but I know that there are organizations that work with people who are in trouble getting education and getting a job. I don't know your education background, but I know you've got access to a computer and seem relatively intelligent- so you're better off than most. Getting a piece shit job and living in a broom closet is better than being homeless. I don't want to come off as being a dick, or I don't want to seem like I'm rubbing salt in the wound. But in my opinion, a spiritual philosophy does not take the burden of work off of your shoulders. Going through troubles may be a test of your spirituality, but that doesn't mean you just have to wait around for it to get better. You have to MAKE it better. I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch. But I think the best thing for you to do is to get your life in balance- which includes your career. Now is the time to start calling in the favors. Shaking trees. Getting out. Meeting people. You said you had a small family- well time to call in friends, acquaintances, old bosses, etc. It's also a good time to think about why it's never a good idea to burn bridges when you leave, and why it's best to be nice to everyone- because you never know who could help you if you didn't screw them over in the past. Best of luck. Make it happen.

Because it's a hair's breadth away from saying "don't care about other people, just use them for how they help you with no thought to their needs" (I had to make it sound a bit worse than the way you said it, or else I'd have said what you said ). It sounds as if it is without compassion and moderately exploitative- in the wrong hands. But I agree, Non's gotta do something different.

I'm not so sure about that. I've been looking recently at very skilled people. As in, very, VERY skilled people. Artists, actors, musicians, scientists, programmers, etc. Not just the ones that become professionals. But the ones that are near "genius" level. If you look at their history, they not only practice their craft for a long duration, but at a much higher intensity than your average person. They work during work time, and they work during recreation time almost as recreation! They never experience the burnout. My own pet theory is that unlike the people who do it for status, or fulfilling some mental issue, they do it because that is what their real inner drive pushes them towards. Leave them in a room for an hour, and they will gravitate towards that thing that they do. So, I dunno. I would say that for most people, don't do more than you can handle. But some people can handle a lot. They do a lot, they do it well, and they don't get burned out.

There are a lot of factors. Some people who are gung-ho about it at the start just burn out, simple as that. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Other times, people don't start out as being in it for the long haul. They might do it for any reason OTHER than the "right reasons"- they want to do something for the recognition, they want to do it because someone told them they should, they told themselves they should do it, things like that. They start out all rearin' to go because, well, because that's what they've decided they're going to do. And they fizzle out when they realized that what they're doing isn't what they WANT to do. The medium paced people take longer to decide, longer to act, but are sure that's what they want to do. And then maybe the people who are very active just get what they want out of something, and move on? Probably a lot more reasons out there.

Hohoho! I see what you did there! I think I come off to be a bit more extreme than I really am sometimes. The thing is, I really, REALLY like martial arts, and take them seriously, on all levels- martial development, personal betterment, health betterment, etc. Unfortunately many arts, and even more teachers, just aren't qualified to meet the expectations and hopes that some people have for them. I bought into a lot of the stuff many martial art teachers peddle- our training is better than the brawlers, keep your root and you won't get taken down, oh well our style is for real fighting and can't be bound by rules. Luckily, I got the snot beat out of me in a safe environment... again.... and again.... and again, until I realized that maybe it wasn't that I hadn't trained well enough- but I had trained too well! All the stuff I had committed myself to was really just bad habits! Stuff like Aikido is great. Stuff like Tai Chi is great. Wing Chun, all the big names. But the best fighters in those arts have always been CONSTANT fighters. They fought anyone and everyone from every style. I'm sure they had to adapt to new situations. But through the years, people copy the forms thinking that if they make it look like what the master did, they'll become like the master. But there are no shortcuts. That's what ALL the masters tell you. No secret other than practice. If you want to be a good martial artist, you actually have to refine your art through MARTIAL situations. Bottom line: Flynn, if you aren't interested in really fighting all that much, if you don't want or need or care about martial combat, if you don't really foresee having to use or care about self defense, then do what makes you happy. Get some exercise. have fun. If you do care or want to know about martial applications, self defense, and combat, then just be aware that some arts have a lot more gaps than others, and that the only way to really get good at fighting is to practice fighting in as real a situation as you can. A good start- mixed martial arts. You and your training partners can mix it up by practicing with multiple opponents, lopsided situations, varied locations, etc.

Nothing to disagree with from anything you've said either, CowTao But see you've got to consider what you are up against. None of those listed have ground fighting. They might have some rough stand up grappling, sweeps, and throws- but which of those are going to take you down, get side control, and beat your face in before flipping over and breaking your arm? What is your risk of running into this?: (and this is why later UFC added rules to prohibit these types of elbows) I recall reading somewhere that during the development of many of these arts, rolling around on the ground was considered the activity of children and dogs- not suitable behavior for an adult, let alone a warrior. Battlefield conditions between large numbers of ground troops are also not conducive to much ground fighting- either your buddy stabs them in the back, or their buddy stabs you on the back. However, just because most people don't recognize that it can be a viable tactic in other scenarios (one on one, space to do it, etc) doesn't mean that it can't be used to great effect. An easily accessible, non-anecdotal example is UFC. Gracie JuJutsu and Wrestling cleaned out, because guys coming in with stand up didn't even know you could do all that stuff. Now one thing I was impressed with was when I heard that that Hong Kong flight provider would be teaching Wing Chun to the cabin crew. That is probably one of the best, if not THE best, arenas that I can think of that Wing Chun would dominate- confined quarters, narrow, your opponent is right in front of you. The only thing you have to make sure is you don't fall forwards or backwards. Of course, I was disenchanted when I saw all the promo picks showing the chicks with the locked elbows Which to me said they started teaching it for the main reason many westerners start learning it- it's a cultural symbol, a "hey, I'm learning Kung Fu, it's fighting, but it's multicultural!". It's almost more about the image than it is about actually learning to fight. The going top picks in most circles are Muay Thai and Brazilian JuJutsu Jiu Jutsu (really any mix that gives you good stand-up striking, good clinch, and good ground). So you're halfway there And I should note that you don't even have to be thinking of competitive fighting, but can also be thinking of self defense, to get those three areas. Stephen K. Hayes has done some good self defense material that addresses those. For instance, in the ground fighting stuff, he and his teachers teach how not only to control the opponent, but to control them even as you get up (in case they try again), rather that just breaking it off as soon as the other guy taps as you may in a competitive sport. Again, not saying there aren't good things you can learn from Wing Chun. But look at the Wing Chun vid that Steve posted. A lot of that stuff went to clinch fighting and grappling. The guy was throwing wide punches (not the Wing Chun economy of movement punches). So if, when you get into a fight, most of what you do is non-Wing Chun, why not start from non-Wing Chun, and do some Wing Chun on the side of that's what you're into, rather than the other way around? I dunno. I like to think of it as- what if you were thrown into a situation where you had do defend yourself the next time you walk out your door? What would you rather have spent your time training? What are you most likely to need if you have no option other than to physically defend yourself? Get where you can do the basics of each range, THEN start doing the fancy stuff.

True, situations like that are unpredictable and in some sense, there is almost nothing you can do to prepare. But on the flip side, you shouldn't NOT prepare. Personally, I'm not a ground fighter, at least I don't consider myself. There are too many scenarios in which it's not a good idea, that I wouldn't even go there. But I live in America, and I have to consider what I can be facing. And someone is just as likely to football tackle you than they are to take a swing. And thanks to UFC (you may not like it, but you'd be a fool to ignore its impact), even non trained people have an idea of how to set up and execute a double or a single leg takedown. Which means that any reasonably athletic and angry individual can dump you on your ass if you aren't careful. And that's why, as a matter of personal self defense, I have learned enough about it to know- how to prevent going there, what to do if I get there, how to win there, and how to get up while maintaining my control over my opponent. I 100% agree that avoidance and running are the best strategies. But I also agree that training strength, speed, agility and reflexes are also good. And to that extent, Wing Chun is far from the worst. But is it the best? I'm not so sure. Not only do you need the physical attributes, but you need to train them in the right context. Wing Chun, that's good for punching and your basic angry guy- standing up. On the ground? Well, I've already posted a video of two Wing Chun guys on the ground. It didn't look pretty. And the sad thing? Supporters of BOTH people cite that fight as evidence for Wing Chun being able to fight on the ground! Supporters of Emin go "wow, he took them down to the ground", and supporters of Cheung go "sure he got taken down, but he used Wing Chun principles to defend himself, and when he got up, he wasn't even hurt!" To me it just sounds like desperate grasping for straws from both sides. Sorry. Just calling it how I see it.

You know guys, I feel really silly. I found this image a long time ago for situations just like these, but forgot to use it!

Well I've been doing martial arts since I was 8. That's 13 years. In a variety of styles under a variety if situations. I'm fairly confident in my ability to gauge a system after a few months by looking at 1) the training 2) the senior students 3) the teacher 4) whether they can do what they say they can do, which means 4a) if they claim to be able to teach self defense, they should be able to defend against an attacker 4b) if they claim to promote health, they should be healthy You are right, and if Flynn wants a martial art to actually fight with, chances are good that Wing Chun and Aikido won't work for him. NOTE: I have NEVER said that these things will NEVER work. I have been very careful to say there are instances in which they can work. But those usually involve things like chance, circumstance, or training above and beyond which is normally called for in the art (for instance, cross training wrestling and Wing Chun). Furthermore, the list I just wrote is a good start of a checklist for how to check out a school. Translation: Sloppy mentioned bullshido and UFC. That means sloppy knows nothing of "t3h r34l artz", I can assume that sloppy is the same type of person as is over at bullshido, even though I've never gone over there and never actually gotten to know any of the members there, so I don't know that some notable members actually train traditional martial arts. La di da, this sand sure is nice. Let's play a game called "what did sloppy actually say". I quote me, and then you quote me, and we'll see who's right. Yay! Sloppy wins! I don't think the world is made of UFC or the US! Wow, Mandrake, where DO you get your material? I've seen this rhetoric before, oft used by those in the marginalized traditional martial arts camp. Every time one of their fighters gets their ass handed to them it's always "well that's not the 'real' *insert art*". And whenever their fighter wins (when it's obvious he's fighting a talentless adversary) it's always "see, *insert art* is so good, na na na na na na!" Having had the misfortune of having trained in a Karate McDojo, and then to experience the training of a very old school Karate teacher, I perfectly understand the sentiment that there are a lot of lame people out there, and that there are lots of masters who just aren't in public. But for some reason, that's just a point that many TMAists just won't admit- they insist that it's all about the students, they insist that it's all about the rules debilitating them, they insist it's cause they don't want to hurt the other guy, blah blah blah. It's not that it's not a valid point- it's that it's used as an EXCUSE so often. How so? Back up your claims! What ad hominem? I linked to a video that showed one of his fights. He went down to the ground, and BARELY managed to maintain control. The only reason he managed to do so was because he was fighting someone from Wing Chun. It's safe to say that if he had fought someone from the Gracie Family for the challenge, he would have lost. I have backed up my claims with evidence. You have not. Just because you come in here and say "oh sloppy, you don't know what you're talking about, and you're wrong about Emin..." Well PROVE it! Point to where in my post you think demonstrates that I don't know what I'm talking about. Point to some place you think shows Emin's skill. You are right. If you want to dig a deep well of fighting ability, it is a lifetime process. Use what you know from each art to deepen your knowledge, and make connections. For instance, recognize when standing with two feet parallel and a high guard will make you a wide open target with a wrestler with a good takedown. Also know what there is such a thing as single leg takedowns, so even if one foot is behind the other, you are at a risk. Don't feel the need to train for 5 or 10 years until you feel you can safely decide if an art has holes.

I mean I get it. It just SOUNDS really bad

I never thought something like that would get said either.

He's saying "you should learn to speak Chinese"! What a coincidence But really, I don't know

1) I'm a fast typist 2) I make a relevant response to each relevant point 2a) It takes far less space to make a statement than it does to refute a statement and provide solid evidence. 3) I responded to multiple people in two posts 4) If you don't want to read, you don't have to. But don't tell me I did or didn't say something if you aren't willing to "make an effort to expand your reading ability." I can sit here and say the United States economy is the strongest economy in the world and will never fail. One sentence. It will take far more space to refute that and link to the relevant articles. What would it look like for me to say tl;dr to that? It would just make me look ignorant and unwilling to accept other views. kthxbai