Sloppy Zhang

That's the one where you only did missionary style for babies, and didn't know about the clit, right? No toys or nothin. It's like the dark ages.

I believe the feminist argument would say that a patriarchal society only pays attention to the sexually available women, so in fact 150% of women doesn't literally mean "all women and then some," but more like "a shit ton of really hot sexually available women". Because the patriarchy don't care about nothin else (unless you're a mother/wife/sister sort of defined-by-a-man thing). Idiotic? Or sexually attractive? Guys are thinking one thing, gals the other Yeah the 18-29 year old demographic is kind of messed up these days. Then again, I've always been mature for my age. Then again, that could just be the ego That would do it.

Oh no, females are quite lovely And in fact, they do tend to reward the egoist rather well. But there's your prostitutes again. And why shouldn't this conversation continue? A forum focused on spirituality encompasses the totality of the human endeavor. Sex is part of the human endeavor. Not to mention sex magic!! The fact is, sex is a big sticking point for a lot of people on the path. If we don't dig into it, then I think we're really missing out.

History has taught me that all great men are hopeless egoists, so thank you very much for the complement

I'd like to throw out that a fair amount of this "male socialization" involves "rewarding" this "asshole" behavior. In the absence of positive reinforcement, the behavior would not thrive. And who doles out this reward? Simply, women. The asshole with 150% of resources, with 150% success, gets rewarded 150% by 150% of women! So as a guy you think, okay, I'll take only 100%. Hell, I already have enough, I'll give up and make do with 50%. And then you look around and go... Well hell, that ain't right. But, I guess that's all rather transactional, and looking for a reward. So, maybe let's just ignore.

But we all know that money can't be used to buy happiness. In the human endeavor, and sex and fulfilling interpersonal relationships are part of the human endeavor, I don't believe we should be so reductionist (as most of your post was, and, in my opinion, the majority of the feminist argument is). But maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, eh? I find it a little sad you immediately reduced my argument to money and prostitution. That you immediately reduced the search for a fulfilling relationship to its basic, physical element. Most of the rest of my points just follow from that.

What happens if we flip this script? If a Woman {a human} is relating to a Man {an object} with al the insidious undercurrents that go along with that, how can something healthy emerge? The woman has a twisted view of the man. He is there to fulfil her, he owes her something, if she does/says the right thing she will get sex. Are there not situations in which women use men like a prop to fulfill some... thing? I've known plenty of girls who just dated guys so they could be her arm candy to dance. Or maybe he has the right college on his resume, and she wants to get into a certain party. Oh, I've heard this guy has a big dick, let me go after him for a night. I have been getting a lot of respect for Joseph Gordon Levitt recently, especially after seeing his movie Don Jon. For anyone in the cultivation field it's nothing too exciting, to be sure. He does introduce some good ideas into the mainstream (even if just subconsciously). But there is a brilliant example of a woman going after a man just to use him as a prop. No thought for him as a person. Just manipulating him sexually to get what she wants. Is there room for such a scenario in the feminism narrative? Or is she merely a warped identifier with her patriarchal captor? This starts to get up to my personal opinion on the limitations of feminism, btw.

Well that's no fun It's almost as if you're saying every human is an individual so we can come up with as many different cases as there are humans on earth! (and maybe beyond ) that's just crazy How do you define "dickhead"? Maybe it's a little bit different in the states, but a "good man" is very hard to confuse with a "dickhead". Can the same be said for men? What men want is their prerogative? Or is what men want misogynist? An aspect of rape culture? Can we make the same statement of men? If not, why not? Genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on this. I'm not a fan of the "good boy/bad boy" nomenclature.... on the surface. I think the dynamic does speak to under the surface traits which should be examined. Namely, bad boys tease, they aren't so eager to please, they can act dismissive of women, they tend not to put one woman on a pedestal (or do that to women in general). A "good boy" can learn to emulate these traits without being a dickhead/asshole/jerkboy. Yeah, that's fine too. But maybe some gentleman does not want to have babies with a woman with a particularly lurid sexual history. And that's not to be possessive of any woman or demonize sexuality or any of the sexual acts she may have been involved in with any number of men of varying traits. It's purely a matter of personal preference. Perhaps even a prerogative. See to me, the first and the second sentences are completely different. If I know a girl is interested in the opera, I'll take her to see the opera. Is that tricking her? I don't think so. If I don't like the opera, but take her anyway, is that disingenuous? I don't think so. Maybe I am doing something for her because I want her to have a good time. But wait, maybe she might blow me on the way home. So, does that mean it's transactional? Per Yascra's arguments above, that means I'm really just looking for a prostitute. But, I like this girl. Or at least, I thought I did. Well sheesh, now I'm just depressed. Maybe the rape culture got me and I don't know it? But seriously, it's quite the conundrum. Again I find these sentences somewhat at odds. Do not we do this in every other interpersonal interaction? I speak with you differently than I speak to my boss, my friend, my lover, my cohort, my captain, my sex slave, and so on... "being honest," "being yourself" are such loaded concepts built by society. And let's not even get talking about privilege! I remember in an old thread, guys would say "just be yourself and you'll find a girl." And someone would respond "well what if being myself means I have a video game addiction and a furry fetish." Well shit, now any form of modifying self presentation becomes disingenuous and wrong! Okay, extreme example. But I hope you get me I agree, but it's not always the response that one expects or desires.

So I said: And you respond with: And you cut straight to a monetary/prostitution example. Could you please tell me how you arrived at that conclusion? That no one is perfect. And when you accept people for people, suddenly a whole new world opens up. A world that, interestingly enough, leads to many cultivation opportunities What fascinates me is how quickly a male's desire to find a partner is reduced to a physical need. Maybe men (I) am looking for something more than *just* a physical sex release? But maybe a, dare I say, enlightened relationship does not, in my humble opinion, preclude the possibility of amazing physical sex. And yet, as soon as I utter those words, I am met with a daring accusation that all I am after is a prostitute. How did we reach that conclusion? Who said anything about "class one" and "class two"? Who is ranking whom in this scenario? And yet, in any other of life it's completely reasonable. "I am an athlete looking for a sports program that values hard athletics." "I am a student looking for an academic program that values hard studying." "I am a person looking for another person who values my work in personal betterment." Oh, wait, is that last one a prostitute? This is a new concept for me, sorry. Greed? No. Desire? Yes. Just as I "desire" spiritual realization. Just as I "desire" mental and emotional fulfillment. And yet, the entire package is reduced to sex and subsequently perverted. A real tragedy, imo. I must be really unlucky because all of my friends and relationships seems to be with good people! And here I am just looking for a prostitute. D'oh! Again, reducing everything to sex. Which is a little weird, because it sounds like that's what you're AGAINST. Some of us are looking for more than *just* sex. Is sex included? Yes. Is sex the end goal? No. Please do not reduce the entirety of a human being to their "greed" for "sex". Thank you Let's flip the script. If I'm with a girl and suddenly I want to get something from somewhere else, should I be able to? Maybe my Christian upbringing is to blame, but maybe I'd like a relationship where, when I'm with a woman, I don't *want* any other woman. And maybe, I want to be with a woman who wants me so much she doesn't want to be with another man. Maybe it's not about possessiveness. It's about the feeling which I would like to exist between the two of us. Or maybe I'm just thinking of my checkbook and how many 0's the prostitute needs... Maybe the reason you don't "get" it is because YOU are looking for ownership, and there's nothing to "get" because ownership isn't part of the equation Yes, you seem to know a lot about "people like me." This sounds an awful lot like *I* am being the prostitute for *them* Compare: these girls want to have fun and joy out of it, not serve some boring guy who just wants to have the living counterpart of a rubber doll Compare: these guys just want to have fun and joy out of it, not serve some boring girl who just wants to have the living counterpart of a rubber doll Huh.

Warning: Graphic material to follow. Knife attack on CCTV camera in the UK. Real. Brutal.

Ah, yeah, good times Since I just got done with a long post I'll do another tl;dr (too long, didn't read) Don't listen to what women SAY they want. Observe that they ACTUALLY GO AFTER. Then emulate THAT. Girl after girl, woman after woman, vehemently declaring they want a nice man who will respect them and be nice and available and yadda yadda... But really what they go after is the guy who's a little flirty. A little edgy. A man who they know could get other women (in fact, they may even observe other women flirt with him, and he them!) A man who won't always do exactly what a woman says (and in fact, may actively go against what a woman says). Of course, a woman might say "well of course we want this, but that's not the same as wanting an asshole". And yet, assholes are better at this than beta nice guy "dweebs," so women tend to lean more towards that than the other. At least, if you're talking about women, say, I dunno, 25 and under in the year 2014. Well, that's not true, because I flirt with lots of older ladies seems like they all want the same thing...

I had a somewhat long response typed up but [edit: this one turned out long anyway just meandering thoughts I guess]... I've been involved in these threads before the regular players probably know what's going to come next... I used to be a beta male [still am at my core]. Was predominantly raised by a mother who encouraged me to find women of value and quality because why waste your time on anything less? After 21 years of celibacy and never finding the right girl, I took a good hard look at reality. Separate from dogma, "common sense," superstition, and the culmination of all three, political correctness. Was I "entitled" to women's bodies? I don't know. I believed my parents that if I worked hard and was a good person, I'd meet someone who was of a similar mindset to me. Is that entitlement? Is it entitlement to want a partner who meshes with you on all levels (physicality included, but not reduced to physicality)? Is it entitlement to, say, put effort into a relationship and be sad, and maybe a little bit angry, when it doesn't come out on the other side? If it is, I say that's a somewhat warped view of entitlement. Entitlement is something for nothing. When you put effort into something, into someone, and that doesn't get returned... then... I don't know what it is, but that's what happens. Part of it is upbringing. I was raised predominantly by a mother who said if you work hard and are a good guy the right girl is going to be there, someone who worked as hard as you and who is as good a person as you. Is that rape culture? If it is, that's a somewhat warped view of women identifying with their patriarchal oppressors. And then you take these guys, don't do drugs, don't drink, never got into trouble, stayed in school ("nerds"), are very nice and genuine, and then you.... what? Shrug them off because, oh, girls just want to have a little fun? Because a guy with a regular job is "boring," because a guy who's never done pot is "in his shell," who goes to bed early to get to the gym and go to his job an "old man"? Is it entitlement to want a girl who will appreciate your hard work, not sleep around on you, is smart, fit, and has similar values to you? I don't know. Is it entitlement, is it "throwing a fit" to be angry and frustrated when you don't get that, and when you see woman after woman line up with not the best guys because "oh he's fun" and "oh she's going through her bad boy phase"? I don't know. But it's a little bit weird to be calling that entitlement. Tl;dr work out be a man learn how to flirt dress well tease women get laid.

There were a couple of feminism threads a while back, and things got pretty heated. A lot of the posts in the thread really cut down to the bone, and a lot of people were offended, and the threads were moved to varying corners of the forum (still some heated discussion, though, and that eventually lead to some changing of some forum rules). As people keep asking for, I think a definition of feminism is needed before conversations proceed. Often what will happen is 2+ people will say the same thing but define it two different ways. So they fundamentally agree in principle but since the surface names are different they get all in a tizzy. For instance, in his post above Mike states: Now, on the SURFACE I disagree. I would say men and women are and should be considered "equals," though I would also say that men and women are and should be considered as "different" (different thought processes, values, etc). So just because men and women think/act/value different things doesn't mean one is inherently "better" than the other. The scales should weigh evenly on both ends, even though different things are on the scales. But see, that's just on the surface. On a deeper level, I think Mike and I agree on a lot of things (and disagree too, but we've had similar trains of thoughts in previous threads). And I agree, what "Feminism" has become, both in some mainstream segments and in some extremist segments, is not the correct way about addressing the problem. It encourages women to act like men (focus exclusively on a job, hook up with lots of guys/girls, be hyper-competitive) and it encourages men to act like women (don't say anything offensive to the group dynamics, women aren't objects to be slept with, help out with the chores). Which is ironic because both camps on an instinctual, physical level, WANT what feminism, on its face, is denying. Women want guys who are masculine, take charge, show mastery and competence in any given situation, aren't afraid to state their position even if it does rock the boat, etc. Men want women who are pretty, feminine, peace brokers, not always "in your face" (this doesn't mean "seen but not heard," but having social graces). Now you can take these two approaches and give equal rights to the people who practice these approaches. And i think that any movement which supports that is good. But people, and feminism is a movement of people, tend to grasp the surface level stuff, and that's its ultimate downfall. IMHO.

Haha yeah that's probably why it's not a good idea to go around proclaiming yourself as a martial artist

Aw yeah, feminism thread.

In no particular order of either reducing sweating or learning to deal with the sweat that you do have... What is your level of physical fitness? I found that when I was overweight and out of shape I would sweat a lot more. My body would be physically exerting itself to do even basic tasks (getting up, walking around, god forbid, going up stairs) would would of course cause me to perspire. As I got (and am still getting) into better shape, I tend to sweat less because my body can handle various tasks more gracefully. Qigong/meditation helps in a psychosomatic way, in my experience. Part of it is mental. You start sweating, so you get nervous about sweating, so you start sweating more, getting nervous about your pit stains, then boom, more sweating, then it's all over. So meditation practice to deal with letting it go and not caring about your sweat. The less you care, the less you sweat. The other part is physical. Again, sweat happens to cool your body down. Why cool your body down? Because it's hot. Why is it hot? Because it's exerting itself. If you're carrying around physical tension, the kind you might not recognize, it could be causing you to sweat (then compelling you to get nervous about it, causing more sweating and more tensing). A qigong practice that identifies and releases tension in your body will lead to less exertion and thus less sweating. Clothing. You gotta wear clothing that minimizes sweating, or if you do, at least hides it. A gray shirt is going to show your pit stains really badly. A black shirt wont. If it's sweating all over though, you might get salt stains. So then you get a white shirt. That can show stains though. Undershirts, if you are wearing clothes that involve multiple layers (say, to work). They can come pretty thin but can still be a good block, so, say, if you're going to work you can bring an extra shirt or two and change out throughout the day. You may want wear looser clothes, so sweat doesn't stick as easily and you have more room to breathe. Not too loose, because you don't want to be wearing a potato sack, that's not fashionable That's mostly how I've dealt with sweating in my life up to this point.

So kinda inspired by the revived Jerry Alan Johnson thread, I was wondering if we could open up a more general discussion about Taoist magic. What do you guys know about it? What good resources have you come across? Taoist Sorcery is a book that seems to come up frequently in searches. But from what I've seen of it, most of it seems to be from a religious Taoist angle- lots of prayer over alters, making offerings, usage of charms, and appeals to deities. Quite interesting, and no doubt useful for someone subscribing to a religious Taoist system, but I don't know how accessible it is to someone working a less regimented paradigm. Jerry Alan Johnson's books certainly seem to be quite numerous and detailed in terms of the information they contain. Are they practical in terms of usage? Or do they tend to lend themselves more towards someone who is involved with Taoism as a religion, and who is already familiar with rituals to use and deities to appeal to? Daoinfo is another interesting site I've recently come across. But rather than teaching methods to actually use, it moreso (from what I've explored and read) talks about stuff that exists, but doesn't really explain/teach. This book on Maoshan certainly looks interesting, but I've only come across a few excerpts of the text, and most of it seems rather scholarly and historical. I don't know if any methods are included, except as kind of a record like, "this is how they do stuff." That's all I've managed to discover so far Hope to hear from you all as well!

I feel like I recently heard some rant against this statement, and that it's typical of the western medical system that only tends to pay attention to muscular strength and development, and somewhat ignores the complex system of soft tissue, fascia, ligaments, and skeletal structure that also contributes to the human movement system and can contribute to or alleviate pain, of which back pain is just one subset. But I don't remember the exact details.

As an elf, I'm a huge fan of archery (source: http://imgur.com/gallery/X8qVCeF)

That post was (failed?) sarcasm. I'm not worthy of that salute.

Yeah. That's exactly what I do. Pretty serious stuff. I can't talk about it, of course. No, that's not a picture of me in a bathrobe and wizard hat...

That's exactly what girls do Solution: Don't be friendly* Don't LARP* Don't let them know you're a PUA.* *advanced players will be able to be friendly, LARP, and admit to reading/using PUA tactics in a way that will actually increase attraction and establish/maintain your frame with the woman. Newbies, however, can very easily shoot themselves in the foot following these tactics.

But this is EXACTLY how you learn ANYTHING in ANY field. First you practice in a controlled environment a set of very controlled behaviors. Since they're new, they're uncomfortable and strange. Then as you become more comfortable with the "routines" you mix, match, experiment, try something new. Then you "make it your own." At this point you can improvise and create something new. You can also act in the moment, creating spontaneously. This goes with learning how to talk with women, riding a bike, writing computer code, learning a martial art, learning an instrument, etc. Some boys learn this "naturally" as they grow up. Maybe they are surrounded by women from a young age. Maybe they have an older role model who is competent with women. Maybe their peers are good with women. Others don't, and have to learn it later in life. There's no reason to discourage them from doing this, just because you and your friends may have learned it without realizing it.

That says a lot more about the fucktards who abused that dog than it says about you. Dogs are one of the few creatures on this earth who will love you always at all times completely unconditionally and selflessly no matter what. They'll remember you forever, miss you when you're gone, freak out when you get back, and will literally love you until they die. It takes a LOT to fuck up a dog. Like, a LOT. I have, unfortunately, met several abused dogs in my life. Many of them are SCARED. They can physically tear the shit out of you, but despite that when they see people or situations that come to their abuse, they react from FEAR more than anger or anything else (you can see this in their eyes and the way they behave). From a logistic standpoint, yeah, rescue dogs are dangerous and it does say a lot that she had a muzzle with her. But also, dogs are amazing animals and it's a bunch of sickos that did that to that dog.

What's wrong with self improvement??