Sloppy Zhang

Don't have much personal experience with the area, but I find that last bit intriguing.

I think it was supposed to be a joke. Like, you don't know what wikileaks is, and the only thing you've heard of that sounds vaguely like that is "wikipedia", so you're wondering if that's what everyone is talking about.... Right?

I agree (this is his site.... yeah, looks kinda sketchy, but the download pdf is legit, as is the material). I have also come across these videos (yes, there are some number skips and he tells you to buy products, both of which are unnecessary). He has his own take on a few things, and gives some really good movement free reality checks at the end of his videos. One thing that Raduga recommends is to start doing exit techniques as soon as you start getting strong vibrations. The Newport (if I recall his name correctly ) actually says to wait until vibrations have subsided. He says that vibrations can be thought of as two different energy waves, the "physical" energy waves and the "non-physical" energy waves, and as non-physical energy waves reach a certain point, they react with physical energy waves, and produce vibrations. If you try exit techniques then, you will be doing a lot of work and struggling to overcome all the energy. But if you let the vibrations subside, then the "energy waves" will have reached a point where you are ready to exit, and the physical waves will have subsided to the point where you aren't at risk of moving your body. Newport's movement free reality checks and exit techniques are also good because, as he accurately says, if you try one and fail, you are still relaxed. While some people suggest "just getting up", if you fail and get up using your body, you have to relax all over again. But if you fail in a movement free reality check/exit, you are still relaxed and can try again in minutes if not seconds. Not to mention that sometimes you have situations in which you don't experience vibrations at all, but can still exit! So having other signs/methods of doing so help, and that's something that Robert Bruce talks about a bit as well.

Observation does not mean you are paranoid. Just because you see scary things does not mean you are afraid. Just because you reveal scary facts does not mean you are fear mongering. Just because you turn off the tv does not mean you are free from the shackles that bind. Just because you are a nice person does not mean you are changing anything. Just because Chen style tai chi is fast does not mean it's not tai chi. I agree with this, however with a caveat of my own: not to the exclusion of all else. Just because the truth is scary does not mean you are filling this moment with fear. As I have said in threads concerning self defense, preparation is not paranoia. Investigation is not fear. There is nothing irrational about looking through history and seeing, "wow, this is how tyrannical, dictatorial governments are formed out of republics (such as Rome)". There is nothing irrational about saying, "wow, there are people who wouldn't think twice about stabbing me and taking my money, we should have a profession of people who can apprehend such people (police)." I agree. Again: preparation is not paranoia, caution is not fear. Have you ever seen the 2002 adaptation of the film "The Count of Monte Cristo"? I find it is a great movie, and illustrates exactly what it is I am talking about: The man, Edmond Dantes, has done nothing other than live content with is life, has a successful business career, and is loved by a childhood sweetheart. This being his only wrongdoing, his jealous childhood friend betrays him, frames him for a crime, and sticks him in a conspiracy that sends him to prison for years. Though events of the movie took a fortuitous turn, he could just as easily have rotted away in prison until death, his childhood sweetheart living the rest of her life believing the lies she'd been told..... Being a good person does not make the rest of the world good. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. That's good. But I wonder through what circumstances would that carry you through? Poverty? Depression? Grievous injury? Grievous injury to your loved ones? Your powerlessness as those "above" you in society do what they want with you and your loved ones? Though I'm sure you might consider that fear mongering, I consider it awareness and preparation. Turning off the tv does not mean that there are no longer those who would take advantage of blissful ignorance and apathy of those who just don't want to deal with such scary things because they don't want to fill their lives with fear.

Neither do I. It is a reflection of certain values which we have founded the country upon, and which we find to be right. Just as you believe that people should not be controlled by fear or forced to do anything, well, so too did the founding fathers when they said that a government should not subject its people to doing things that they do not want to do, which is why they created a representative government! If there are actions being taken which are NOT the will of the people, and if in fact there are actions being taken which are not in the best interest of those people, then the people doing such acts in government are NOT acting in accordance with the job they have been granted by the PEOPLE, and they should be removed and, if it is revealed something unlawful was done, they should be brought to trial. If you believe that a certain group of people, because they are born into a certain family or have certain amounts of money, should be subjected to different laws or can act in their own interest even at the expense of others, well, that's not American. And if those people did the same things in that country, then they would not be doing anything unAmerican, and they would be breaking no laws, and there would be no reason for their people to bring to any sort of law. (now whether you think it's okay to go into that place and "set things right", well that's just a whole other topic entirely ) No one is saying anything about "better". I am referring to certain parts of America which are written in law and which every American is held accountable to. If there are people in America who are breaking those laws, they should be brought to trail. That's how America works. If you don't like that, you either work to change the law, or go somewhere else. If you don't like how America is run, try to change it, then leave. If you think there is something "better" or "worse", then do something about, or go somewhere else. That's just how it works. That's how America was founded. It's not a measure of value, it's just how the system works. I'm not saying it's "right" or "wrong" or "better", I'm just saying that's how the process works. I do not disagree with this. I refer you to your own words above about the "structured slavery of the mind" Furthermore, even though you may say "this is just how the system works", that does not excuse harmful behavior. As above, so here Again, the keyword.

All this does it make you ignorant of what is going on around you. Unless you work personally with many key members in Washington D.C. and you have friends who you talk to frequently and tell you about what's going on in the Pentagon, and you have friends who are members of the armed forces stationed all over the world..... Turning off the T.V. doesn't change anything except allow you to be willfully ignorant of what's going on. Well what happens when a criminal doesn't want to go to jail? What happens when someone who stole a bunch of money doesn't want to give it back? What do you propose we do then? You are never going to be able to learn all the facts about anything if you turn off the tv and live in willful ignorance of what's going on, just because you think the news is scary and makes people afraid. (I am going to make another post for the second half, as this is getting long!).

Not necessarily- you could be deceiving yourself and life could turn out better. "I'm not a mean person", "people love me", "my spouse is not cheating on me", "I love my job", can be lies that you tell yourself to get you to enjoy a life that, deep down, you do not enjoy, or things you do not agree with. It is still deception, because it does not line up with the physical reality that most of the rest of us interact with. But it helps you get through the day (and sometimes, helps you get through life). I don't know that I can fully agree with the notion that we make our own reality. We may make our own CONCEPT of reality, and then, through various types of cognitive bias, accept or ignore different types of data which either support or deny the things we have already determined to be true. Again, you can tell yourself that your spouse still loves you and would never cheat on you, and you might cite as evidence of this all the time he/she was nice to you, said they loved you, did nice things for you, but reject absences that could not be accounted for, phone calls to numbers you don't recognize, and purchases that you had no clue of. Full scale investigation on everyone and everything. Total transparency. Of course, to a certain extent, as long as there are ongoing operations, not everything can be fully revealed publicly, because some people have raised valid concerns that certain released info could put lives in jeopardy. However, if it is discovered that military operations, known or covert, have transpired in an illegal fashion, if other types of illegal action have been taken, then the people who authorized it need to be found and brought to justice in accordance with the law. I don't know what you mean by "force". Are you suggesting that some might be suggesting that we "force" people to investigate? That we "scare" them into thinking that the government is scary and is doing illegal things to get them to act? Or that we "force" the perpetrators to go to prison for their crimes? Because work WILL be involved. A change will have to happen. And there will always be those that resist change, there will always be those who will want to cling to their perfect la-la land of "as long as I didn't see it, I don't have to think about it!" You can face and deal with negativity without being a negative person. Drawing an example from spiritual cultivation, a cultivator can come across some very negative things, within themselves or in others. But just because you realize that deep down inside you are a greedy, jealous person, that those around you are twisted and sick, and that life itself is an endless spiral of debauchery, ignorance, and hate, doesn't mean you should stop cultivating just because everything you see is "doom and gloom"! What you should do is work through it and reach a point where all of that is resolved. That involves some work. Some people see this work as "force", kind of like how some people look at a Chen style tai chi form, which has fast movements and some fa jin, and say that it's not tai chi because it doesn't look slow and gentle! I agree, but that does not mean we should excuse criminal behavior, behavior that purposefully damages (and loses) lives, simply because "imperfection is part of living in the world". You can feel compassion towards and forgive those who have done wrongs, but that does not mean you excuse them for those wrongs and let them off the hook. There's a keyword here, and I put it in bold. The world changes because WE change. Not just you. Not just me. But EVERYONE. If I am the only nice person on the world, and everyone else is mean, and I am always nice, and everyone else is always mean, am I changing the world? No, I'm just the only nice guy. But if one mean person changes to a nice person, and another mean person changes to a nice person, THEN the world changes. The question is not if it will start, but if it will continue. Though you may be the change you wish to see in the world, that does not mean others will change along with you. (had to break it up, it was too long!)

I'll clarify my position a bit- I'm for people backing up their claims with evidence. Lots of people have heard of tummo, of monks being able to heat up their bodies. It's a claim that's been around for a while. And there is evidence. There are claims that have been around for a while, but for which there is little (or no) supporting evidence. I am an avid supporter of the position that there should be evidence for these, and that people making the claims should step forward and allowed themselves to be tested in a manner similar to that of the monks in the original post. However, everyone has a right to privacy. There are those who do not want to reveal their arts to the masses. They live and teach (and sometimes do not teach) in obscurity. No one knows who their are, what their arts arts, or what they can do- and that is perfectly fine. I do not advocate hunting down people in obscurity and forcing them to step out into the public sphere if they don't want to. I advocate finding people who ARE in the public sphere, who HAVE made claims, and holding them to their word. And I think they should learn from these monks' example and not be afraid of subjecting themselves to such tests. If they have a valid, reliable, successful method, they have absolutely nothing to fear. If they are honest, and can do the things they say they can do, they have nothing to fear, and the only thing that will happen is that we will learn more about what humans are capable of.

Yes, these people have stepped forward and verified their claims. They did what they said they could do under controlled conditions, in reliable setting with reliable observations made, and showed RESULTS! Mega props to them, they have made a great example! If only more would follow their example, who knows what else we could discover?

Lyoto Machida does it.

Not summer (for me), but..... H2K - Summer Melody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8nNwd70Bgk

I also seemed to recall a warning/message that those practices were only a small part of a much larger system that one should be practicing alongside the methods he taught, and that you shouldn't practice them except with a teacher. I don't practice his methods, so I didn't practice those techniques. Also, it's been talked a lot here on TTB. A lot of things have, actually. Before taking up a practice, it might be good to search here, and on google and other places, for information about the practices and those who have practiced it before getting involved, so you can get any warnings and stuff beforehand. But I do hope you can fix everything.

Perhaps you should get to know people a bit more, rather than only reading a handful of their posts and then putting them on your ignore list You know what they say about assumptions, don't you?? They make an ASS out of U and ME (ASS U ME.... ASSUME). How about, instead of attacking people and accusing them of not having the proper methods, why not share some of what YOU (would) do which will get everyone through the pitfalls that we are all going to fall into if we keep doing what we're doing? Or are we not ready to receive your immense wisdom? Or have you already given it, and we just aren't smart enough to pass the IQ test which is life and your riddles to figure it out?

I used some stretches from this page.

This is a recommendation from another thread: If money is tight, then I would recommend finding out as much as you can on your own, and doing as much as you can on your own BEFORE you go to the seminar, that way you can soak up as much as possible when you get there, rather than "treading water" with things you could have figured out/done on your own for a lot less money. Also, I dunno if you know of this blog: http://longmenpai.blogspot.com/ but yeah, that's all I got. And search the forum for Yin Xian Fa, there's some interesting past threads. [edit] Actually, you get better results doing a search through google, at least I do: Tada!

Aw man, I liked the first one I've actually taken a look at that book in the bookstore, and most of what's in that book (that I saw) is actually in his other books (which I have), just in a schedule form (and I don't have any problems keeping a schedule). So thanks for the offer, Mal, but I'm good

I can't see the image Going directly to the URL doesn't work too good either

I spoke in another thread about being able to know yourself fully, and being able to make honest appraisals. For instance, you could go from being a boastful jerk, to thinking, "boasting gets you nowhere, see how I do not boast, you all boast so much, but I do not, I am more humble than all of you!" that is the same boasting, but in a much more dangerous forum, because it is self deception. I agree that one cannot let their energy be dispersed just because there is a lot of crap in the world. But sweeping it all under the rug, and then sitting upon that rug so you can meditate and say, "see how I am calm and do not cave into fear mongering" is not what I would call progress or proper action- it is just another form of self deception and willful ignorance and apathy. And that causes nothing but problems, and you have given your tacit support for the despicable acts other propagate. The only true peace and stillness comes from when you have resolved all of the shit, and that is a long, long way away. To look at the length and difficulty of the path and say, "well I can't do anything about it on a global/universal scale, but if I just think of myself, how easily I can still my mind and my actions!" that, I do not think is (as) proper.

So I came across a post in another thread which I found rather interesting: I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this method, what it entails, or how the mechanisms behind it work. Is it akin to learning lucid dreaming, in which you distinguish between reality and the dream state, so you know your dreaming, except in this case you can distinguish between things that are real and things that are not when you meditate? Something else? Anyone who has any insights, it'd be great to hear from you!

If you are referring to the differentiation between real/imagined, do you mind expanding a bit more about that? What are some things to look out for? What is the kind of thing to cultivate which will help differentiate between real and imagined, and where do you go from there?

I feel like I've heard you say this before.... did you repost this, or paraphrase it from someone else? I don't know what country you're from, but I'm from America, and in America, the general idea is that it's the people that are the last check of the government. And for the people to be informed, they need to have access to information. Now I understand that certain information pertaining to national security or ongoing military affairs should be kept within a few people.... but seriously, to use that as a blanket excuse for hiding documents which reveal underhanded (or potentially illegal!) activities, is WRONG. Saying "well we'll never know for sure, let's just keep our heads down" is exactly the kind of behavior which will allow people to continue making decisions that help themselves and lead to harm for others. I'm not going to speak for other countries, but as far as being American, I think it's the duty of Americans to ask questions of their government, to not be afraid of asking questions of their government, and if a situation arises in which the leadership is not willing to answer the questions in an intelligent manner, then that government needs a change. Investigation and accountability is not idle curiosity, nor does it lead to fear mongering. It should be a conscious activity that is undertaken with delicacy and intelligence, and an accurate appraisal should be made about the dangers revealed during such investigation. But sometimes the world is a scary place. Sometimes when you investigate, you find nasty stuff. It is not fear mongering to seek to discover the truth.

Gotcha. I assume you do this before doing these steps?

Cool stuff.

So how about this? If you don't mind teaching, I don't mind learning.

Nothing We got into a discussion of whether OBE's and such can be proven, after you posted this: And I responded that that is not completely true, as things which correspond to a physical reality can be verified. An example being some of the stuff you listed as being able to do, such as: And then that's where we got off track. My point is not that you PERSONALLY do it, but that someone claiming to be able to do it (which does include you after this post) who actually got around to doing it would be really nice. In any case, I AM interested in this: I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach