Sloppy Zhang

You have my wholehearted agreement here. Life is lonely. Especially when you're fucked up. Other people are fucked up. Society is fucked up. So your partner isn't the best... they have good points and bad points. You have good points and bad points. Maybe just find someone with the "good enough" good points and the "not bad enough" bad points.

These are some of the questions I wrestled with. We contact and influence others at all times on all levels anyway- physical, mental, emotional, psychic, karmic, etc, whether we can feel it or not. What is the difference between changing your physical behavior (appearance, words, etc) and changing your psychic/karmic behavior (to use magic or some other means to attract someone). After all, it's just a matter of where you are falling on the spectrum, eh? In the end, you have to come up with your own answer. For me, most people don't believe in magic (at least, not consciously/publicly, it's interesting the more serious conversations I have with people (takes a lot of work to get there) the more they divulge a secret belief the more than physical...) and they only really believe in the physical. And so it is the physical means by which I elect to build relationships.

Sometimes I feel power building up inside of my sacral chakra. When I build it up and it explodes forth, I can lose consciousness sometimes. It's crazy. If only I could use it as a martial art.

Nah man, do the reverse. Be an asshole to her. Tease her, make fun of her, call her on her bullshit, whatever. The hotter the woman, the more she gets into it. No one has ever treated her like this, it's so new! It's a challenge! What is it about you that is different? She'll start texting you and calling you and meeting up with you like mad trying to "figure you out." Then you drop one (1) complement on her. One! Boom. That holds her over for months. "Remember that time you said I had nice eyelashes." *You cock your head to one side and squint* "Was I drunk at the time?" "Oh my god be serious, you looked me right in the eyes and said they were the most beautiful eyelashes you had ever seen." *Give a cocky smile and wink* "I'm always serious when it comes to you, baby." *queue porno music* Of course, shit like this kills me inside, because I was raised in a good family structure by a respectful father, well educated mother, I have lots of strong women and healthy relationships in my family and in my personal sphere of really good friends. But damn has society fucked up the hottest girls among us, and damn if I am only attracted to sexually attractive girls. Sorry y'all.

Yeah, this. I did some stuff and got freakishly good results. Like, freakish to the point where it bothered me. Too serious. It's what I wanted... too much of what I wanted. I started thinking about karma, free will, psychic influence, how I impacted other person's life, all this shit started unraveling, it was a mess. Started trying do do exactly what I did, but in the reverse, in the hopes it would undo it. Not to mention completely separating myself away from this person. It was just too real. Trust me. Just be a douchebag. It will work like magic, and you won't have the guilt of using otherworldly forces to be attractive to women. Instead, you'll just use a combination of biology and the modern societal structure

Let me circle back to the OP, as this is going to make more sense and hopefully convince people I don't think you should just be a doucheback to hookup with chicks (cuz I don't). Here is my abstract: Douchebags get girls. (Some) "nice guys" get girls. Obviously the deciding factor is neither being douchey or being nice. So the trick is to find out what qualities both have which women want. Okay, so let's go to the OP's scenario. See a girl in a bookstore, strike up a convo, buy her the book, ask her out. Or any other situation, meet her at bar, buy her a drink, meet her at cafe, buy her coffee, etc etc etc. The key aspects of this are: 1) The approach- a cold approach, you've never seen this girl before in your life, you don't know how, have a mutual friend introduce you. You just do a cold approach. How many people are comfortable doing this? Not many. You know what many (myself included!) "nice guys" think when they see a pretty girl at a bar or a club or a bookstore? "Oh she probably doesn't want to be bothered." "Oh she is probably meeting someone." "Oh she might have a boyfriend." You know who winds up approaching? The guys who EXPECT that the woman will want to talk to them. Who expects this? Two types: 1) guys who have had success with women their whole lives. Guys who are naturally good looking, athletic, rich, are socially savvy, were popular, etc and were pursued by girls 2) guys who learned the only way to meet girls is to approach them, because that's how douchebags were getting laid (this is a smaller percentage, because many nice guys have the self debilitating thoughts outlined above because they are, ironically, being nice and considerate by not "bothering" the girl) Now we come back to aspect two of the original scenario: 2) The Conversation- he can talk about anything and nothing at all. This involves social savvy, rich past experiences, etc. Who is the best at this? Well, douchebags. Even if they have no relevant experiences, they make their experiences relevant. They're douchebags, it's all about them! But this fills conversations. They have rich experiences because, well, they might be rich and have gone to Italy or Spain or France. They may have "dated a girl" from Spain, Italy, France (this shows they have experience and confidence with women). This willingness to talk about anything and not give a fuck about what the other person thinks means they're more likely to fill up space and strike a cord. Throw enough shit at the wall and something will stick, am I right? Conversely, the "considerate" guys are more likely to want to feel out for something "relevant." Again, depending on the guy and their level of "consideration" this may be easier or harder. Considerate "nice guys" are very bad at this cold approach because they already feel like they are "bothering," the girl, so if they don't have anything to say that makes it count, they aren't going to say it. If they have never been to France, they aren't going to bring up the subject of French toast (even if the girl is nomming on some French toast). Meanwhile, mister douchebag is gonna tell a funny story about French toast and more likely to get the girl than the considerate guy. And finally I'll get to point 3 of the scenario: 3) Their chances- this may come down to the difference between men and women. Even if a guy buys the girl a drink, a book, whatever, that only "increases their chances." Weird, you'd think a guy doing exactly what a girl wants is going to, you know, seal the deal, huh? (and by "seal the deal" I don't mean sex, I mean, an investment of her time, which may mean sex, it may mean a date, it may mean a second date, it may mean a relationship, which again may or may not involve sex, or something on the spectrum of sexual activities) So what about guys- what do guys want? Ideally, an attractive girl (conventionally modern day, where a little too thin is better than a little too fat, bust-waist-hip ratio is good, even if one aspect isn't as shapely as could be desired). Nicer is better, but the hotter she is the less nice she can get away with being. She can be smart, but to be completely honest, the smartest and nicest girls I've known were not conventionally attractive (or at least, were not conventionally attractive during formative years of middle/high school). Why? Well when you're hot, guys just wind up giving you stuff and doing things for you just because you showed up. When you have to actually, you know, apply yourself that makes you a better person. Go figure. But I digress... Another mitigating factor with guys is they are SYSTEMATICALLY instructed from a young age what their "league" is, and are conditioned to not play "out of their league." Again, good looking, athletic, popular/socially savvy, rich guys are pursued by and date conventionally attractive girls. These conventionally attractive girls don't give to shits to nice, but otherwise lacking in some areas boys because, well, they have the option to date the highest tier guys. Interestingly, amongst the attractive women I've had heart to hearts with (only gotten to this point because I learned how to play the game, sad to say) their experiences and sources of self esteem are more targeted. "Jimmy dumped me in 8th grade because Lisa blew him in the locker room." "Cindy made fun of me because my breasts were too big." "Ryan didn't ask me out to prom senior year." These girls always had the options for other guys. It was just targeted. For guys it's the reverse- ANY attractive girl is out of their league because they are lacking in some areas, and every. single. girl. reminds. them. So these guys do learn to "settle" for girls who are more available to them. And I'm sure the reverse is true for girls setting for guys in "their league." I'll leave the ladies to fill this in. So if a conventionally attractive girl approaches a guy, buys him a drink and offers to go home with him, that shit is pretty much guaranteed for any guy not in a relationship (and even some guys in relationships, depending on the attractiveness and level of attachment to current girlfriend). There's no "well it would improve their chances." Like, guys don't fuck around with what they want. Which was interesting to me about the "there is a lot better chance of that working in their favor." Um, don't tell me how to "have a chance." Tell me how to seal the deal! Want to seal the deal with a guy? Be hot. Be available (sexually, emotionally, intellectually, whatever the guy's interest is). The. End. The only reason it would only "improve your chances" are if there were OTHER girls after this guy. And the only reason that'd be the case is if he's one of the top 10% of guys. So, to circle back (lots of circles!) to my theories on "how to pick up women by being a __________" I think there are certain attributes that women select for (it's not buying them shit). I think douchebags are more likely to stumble upon these desirable traits. It's possible for "considerate" guys to also have these traits, by accident or engineering. (look at i am's post for an example. These guys were being "genuine" to themselves, even if being "genuine" meant being attractive guys who liked to go out and have fun and party and hey, that's what young and attractive teens and 20 something girls like to do too, yay!) But if a guy wants to get laid and doesn't want the essay, tell him to be a douchebag. His "chances" are guaranteed to go up 120% from where he is now. As a guy who is, deep down, a "nice considerate guy" who doesn't want to "bother" girls that I meet, I'm recovering a lot of my behavior by emulating douchebags. I don't complement girls. I play hard to get. I tease them. I deny them. I act selfishly. I do spontaneous things (which may or may not include them). I make plans with other friends, and other female friends. I take her out to places and I don't really consult with her ("because it's an adventure.") And hey, I've had a 200%* increase in the number of women I've dated and had sexual relationships with. *up from the starting number of 0

Well, as a young 20 something myself (and recently being out of the teenage years) my demographic is still predominantly teens and early 20 somethings... well, it's just tough. My parents were real down to earth and I had a tight family structure. I learned to be a chill down to earth guy. I am good looking (good genes) but I do put in work to stay healthy. I'm nice and treat everyone equally. And I hate to say it, but the only girls I could find who were equally as nice and friendly were incredibly unattractive. And all the incredibly beautiful girls and women... holy hell, talk about going for the douches and the "bad boys"! So I started trying to figure out what these bad boys and douches did that got them sexual relationships (could be one night or could be years). I didn't (and still don't) want to lose the "core" of being a standup guy. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't have to modify my behavior in some ways to appeal to conventionally attractive young women in order to get them interested sexually. I love taomeow and all her posts. She has a lot of truth and wisdom in them, and I 100% agree with her analysis with respect to trauma, learning behaviors, etc. But holy hell does that leave a modern young man a virgin. And I'm not even talking about "slaying tail" here just to "get some" (objectifying women) I mean, I have had really awesome relationships with women (some sex involved, some not) because I got them to open up (pun intended) cuz I was, yeah, acting kind of like a dick. Which really goes a long way in saying how fucked up people can be in this society, where the only way to get genuinely into peoples' feelings is to be a dick to them first. Do I wish society to be this way? No. Is it against my nature? Yes. Is it against what I cultivate in my practice? Yes. Is it real life? Yes.

Can we clarify what you mean by "in tandem"? If Bane and Talia were working "in tandem" that means they were working together... If you mean that their plans, say, dovetailed nicely together, then they may have been separate and things just worked out in the end. I think he DOES have a romantic interest in her, and yeah, it does bother him that he banged his girl. At the very least there is sexual tension, even if they do have a brother/sister relationship. You can argue Talia slept with Batman for whatever reason you want. The fact is: -Bruce kills Talia's father -Talia sleeps with Bruce -Bane takes care of her since she was 8 years old -Talia does not sleep with Bane Because they are humans living in a modern(ish) earth. America. New York (or New York analog). It's fair to assume their values are fairy analogous, as is who they would find sexually attractive. Bane doesn't exist in real life Real life women who say they would have sex with Bane are not wanting to have sex with Bane. They are wanting to have sex with Tom Hardy as Bane. Talia, though, is a fictional character who had fictional sex with a fictional Bruce Wayne. Now if Catwoman said she wanted to have sex with Bane, you'd have an argument to say "women said they wanted to have sex with Bane." Alternatively, if you found a screen capture of the Batman film that showed a character who wanted to have sex with Bane, then you could safely say "women want to have sex with Bane." But if you cite a woman from "our world" (the real one) who said she wants Bane... she really means Tom Hardy acting as Bane. Well now you are getting into the "different types of alpha" argument Bane is an alpha in the sense that he's a badass leader of a rebel army that can overthrow a large city and paralyze the government of the United States. He's still not getting laid. Loki is more of a sleight of build sarcastic mischievous fuck. He's probably getting laid a lot more than Bane. We can infer this because the women in these fictional universes more than likely behave similarly to the way they behave in the real world (since those fictional universes contain more similarities to ours than not) and, as we all know from copious amounts of experience and touches of scientific evidence.... Players get laid my multiple sexually attractive women and girls.

The question I was asking: "What happens if they are sexually attracted to younger women despite getting along better with older women."

It's not confusing. I just don't think Bane was his own man. He always had a thing for Talia. Bane was never the innocent one. It's Talia's innocence he was protecting in the prison. I disagree. He cared for her since day one. How do you feel when a girl you've raised since 8 years old (if we go for the theory that he didn't have a thing for her, which I still think he did) hooks up with the dude who killed her father... Then that proves Dorian's point We need to draw a distinction between analyzing women's sexual attraction to Bane the character (women who live in the Batman universe, which is roughly analogous to our society), compared to women's sexual attraction to Bane the actor.... more correctly, Tom Hardy playing Bane. When I analyzed your first post about Bane, I was analyzing him from the point of view of women inside the Batman universe. I compared that to Loki, and whether women inside of the Marvel universe would find Loki attractive. That's DIFFERENT than if we look at whether women would be sexually attracted Tom Hardy dressed as Bane. They know he can act the part of Bane, but is NOT actually Bane (he's a human being). Same thing with whether women are attracted to Tom Hiddleston acting as Loki. Glad to hear!

And should their sexual attraction be more towards the teen and twenty something crowd?

And what happens when a person with a good parental background a good sense of internal direction finds themselves lonely amongst a peer group of "drunk teens and 20-somethings" who don't appreciate this internal direction? What happens when this person observes (through direct interaction) that those who are forming human relationships are the douchebags? The girls who put out for the douchebags? What is a person to do?

Not sure that "dufus is to guy as chick is to girl" necessarily holds... If a girl calls a guy a "dufus" that is not the equivalent to when a guy calls a girl a "chick." [edit] Let's talk about how "men" and "women" are opposite on the spectrum, but it's "guys and girls" instead of "boys and girls". We can use words like "infantilization." We may even go so far as pedophilia in the mainstream.

If nice guys and douche's are both getting laid by (hot?) chicks at bars and clubs, then "being nice" or "being a douche" is not the determining factor in getting laid. Or having fulfilling (sexual) relationships with women. So what are teen and 20 something men to do?

You're strong as hell.

Let's keep going! He was gonna... but he didn't. Talia pulled the strings the whole time. Do you really think he would have done anything without checking in with Talia first? Reworded, do you think there was anything he did Talia didn't know about? So when she was 18 he was in his late 30's. How do you think he felt when she was stroking his face during her ending monologue? "Oh my god finally she touched me tenderly." Is something how I think might have gone through that character's mind... Is THAT what she told Bane? Which girls? Characters in the fictional batman universe? Or girls in the meta universe (our universe) who know that Bane is actually a good looking and famous, charismatic actor? An actor who is able to play emotionally afflicted characters but still relate on a human level (a human actor with other performances to be viewed) therefore actually fulfilling Dorian's criteria??

Bold are my fixes.

So finally reading through the actual thread In my experience (guy being friendzoned) it's not so much that women think "oh I've known him for so long it's weird to date." It's more like "this guy is a nice guy... I just don't see him like that. (sexually)" So the REAL question is- what do women like sexually? When gets them sexually attracted to a guy? Obviously every woman is going to be a little bit different. If you can get a woman to find you sexually attractive/desirable, then you won't need to buy her anything. And in fact, she'll start to buy you things [edit] with response to the title change, yeah, women do respond sexually to douchebags more than the guy who buys her a book, or flowers, or a drink. The nice, respectful, "let me buy you an XYZ" guy is predictable. Does what is expected of him. Oh hm, That's nice. The douchebag, he's unpredictable. He can make you laugh. He might make you cry. He might buy you something. He might not. He might be good in bed. He might not. He might be dating a girl on the side. He might not. He might have hooked up with his ex last weekend. He might not. He's interesting, he's different. When he DOES do something nice, even if he picks up a flower from between the cracks in the sidewalk and gives it to you, it's nice because he doesn't normally do that. We can talk about how we want life to be... Or we can talk about how life is. Which do we think is more Taoist? [edit2] How I got out of the friendzone- I started being unpredictable. I started to challenge her. Did I stop doing nice things? No. I kept doing nice things. But I did them in unexpected ways. Some people called me douchey. But I started having more fulfilling (and more sexual!) relationships with women who previously didn't want those relationships with me.

Except bane is a dude who hangs out with a bunch of dudes and doesn't particularly leverage is high social status in human relationships. Plus he's completely obsessed and obedient to one woman, who doesn't even think of him that way. Batman, in his "low test" period hooked up with Talia after losing his company. Also, Batman killed her father, yet she still gives it up for Bruce. But Bane... gets... nothin. Loki, meanwhile, is all about human relationships. Manipulation. He does what he wants. Not what other (women) want. He leverages his relative status in his interactions with people. While he's not everyone's types, he thinks he's sexy as hell, and that is sexy to other people. So... yeah. In some respects, yeah, I'd rather be a strong badass in control of a rebel army that can topple a city government in one day. But in others, I'd rather be a guy who can, you know, get laid. Or, if "getting laid" isn't your thing, "having satisfying relationships with women" (don't tell me Bane's relationship with Talia was in any way satisfying). Also having magical powers of misdirection can be handy too (interesting that Badman also has misdirection powers from his ninja training...)

I go less for the "increase status relative to other males by lowering status of said other males" approach (terrorizing weaker males on dance floor, making fun of guys she's friends with/dating (I don't go for girls in relationships)) and more for "increase status relative to other males by increasing my own status" (making her laugh, being fun in a crowd, being friends with her friends, having cool friends myself, being good to her in bed, etc) That said, I've been caught with a wolfish grin from time to time

B.K. Frantzis writes about this, don't recall if it's in "Relaxing Into Your Being" or "The Great Stillness" (probably the Great Stillness but who knows...) It's been a while since I read it so I don't recall if he talks about "how" it works. I think the takeaway is that it happens as part of your practice, and as I recall it's a necessary step on making sure your practice rolls over to subsequent lifetimes, rather than you having to start over every time (since at death you kind of get mulched and recycled into potentially multiple people so....).

A fire waterfall.

Buying drinks for the women may or may not work for an actual pickup. Same with books, I'd bet. Depending on the woman, she may be used to/expect this type of behavior, and can be pretty good at stringing you along. The better way to pick of women? Make her laugh. Challenge her. Show her something new. It's a lot cheaper and will work more reliably.

Wasabi. Also, I found that the relaxation/dissolving practice of B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" can help as well. Sometimes I'll have a "stuffy" feeling and then suddenly a blockage will move (probably sinus gunk) and my nostrils will be more clear and I can breathe more air more deeply. But also, wasabi.

Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty good at reading people as well, in the sense that I get strong impressions from people. Well, I don't get strong impressions from all people. Sometimes I feel very strongly that someone is a good person. Sometimes I feel very strongly that someone is a person to stay away from. And then sometimes I don't feel very strongly one way or the other. I think the suggestion to apply it to yourself is a good one. Feel out when various life paths are "good" for you or "paths to avoid." For me, a big part of this was also learning how to not care about social judgment. Do what you feel is best for you. Sometimes people laugh at you, or ask you why you do or not do something. And you don't really have any way to tell them other than "a feeling." Then they just laugh at you more. But I kind of had to get over it. Then there are the purely internal blocks. Where you laugh at/doubt yourself. But then when you doubt your doubt, do you return to the original thought? Everyone says "trust your gut" but as soon as you start to mentally analyze your feeling, you've already lost the feeling! It's very hard to act genuinely in the moment or along with the feeling every time. But that's part of the practice. And yeah, use it for self betterment, the betterment of others. Also the suggestion about figuring out where the negativity was coming from. In my case, there are a few types of people that I just *can't* stand no matter what. At certain points in my life, I have met people at various stages of becoming the types of people I can't stand. Since I understand how those people got to be that way, I started to have sympathy for those types of people. Not for all, there are a few types of people I just can't stand absolutely no way no how. I don't try to force myself to like those people or feel compassion. But I'm sure that at some point in my development I will come to understand and have compassion for them. Just not right now Maybe you should go to Vegas and become a high stakes professional gambler